The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 66

adywan said:

DrDre said:

adywan said:

DrDre said:

Here’s “the guy” again with his spoiler review of TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdobc7jtQo

He asks a good question, that I actually had not considered (and neither did RJ apparently): if admiral Holdo can lightspeed through Snoke’s ship to allow the rebels to escape, and we know they’re going pick them off one by one once the chase begins at the start of the film, why didn’t any of the rebels (or better yet a droid) sacrifice themselves at the beginning of the plot by having one of the cruisers lightspeed through Snokes ship, such that everyone can escape?

The only reason Holdo was able to carry out her plan is because the first order had ignored the cruiser as they were fully concentrated on destroying the shuttles. She was able to turn the ship around which, if they had done that earlier, they would be in full range of the first order weapons and would have been blasted out of the sky before they could do anything. And, to the question “why didn’t a droid do it”, well its clear in the film that her original plan was to just keep the chase going while the shuttles escape unnoticed. But, as soon as the first order started destroying the shuttles , she had to think fast and come up with something. Would a droid come up with a plan like that? Not unless it was a tactical military droid. And you have to remember that this is a film. Having a droid sacrifice itself wouldn’t have had the emotional weight of a human sacrificing themselves/

That doesn’t really sound very logical. One of the ships would only have to hyperspace a small distance, namely further out of range of the FO ship, turn around and voila, bye bye Snoke and his ship.

They’d only got one jump left. They were all running out of fuel. Just look how quick the other two ran out. No way they could have done that

They had one jump to get far away. I’m sure a very short distance would have been possible. It’s not like they arrive instantly on their location, with the amount of fuel consumed not depending on the distance travelled. I’m sure it would have cost more fuel, then just flying there waiting to be killed, but they had some six hours worth of fuel, as is stated in the film.

Barring that they could have created a diversion, such that one of the ships could turn around and lightspeed through the ship. Have Poe make one of his crank calls again. That seemed to keep them preocuppied for a while, long enough for those extremely slow bombers to get close. Better yet, sacrifice another one of the smaller ships, by having it attack Snoke’s ship, turn around another one, and voila, almost everyone get’s to fight another day.

After viewing TLJ, I knew immediately that I would be wrestling with how I felt for a a long time. I realllllly want to love the film. Thematically, I love the direction of “letting the past die” so that the saga can go into a new direction and evolve beyond the characters that both grounded and caged the series for too long. In this vein, I think it might be the best story to come out of Star Wars since ESB.

I loved that Rey is a nobody, Snoke too. Would I have like to have a little more back story on him? Sure. But Kylo snuffing him out to take full control of his own destiny, will serve only to be his undoing, and foreshadows some amazing poetic justice to come later. Rey too will have full control of her destiny, unbound by the limitations of the “old order”, she will carve out a new path of what it means to be a Jedi, and I am so excited to see what happens next.

Visually, the film is stunning. Snoke felt alive, the action scenes were full of tension and excitement, much of what I loved about Rogue One. Puppet Yoda sucked sure, but this was our fault for jumping down the throats of CGI Yoda to begin with. That being said, watching Frank Oz control Yoda just as he did during Empire was so powerful for me. Every move and mannerism harkened back to Empire, and I couldn’t help but feel at least a little bit giddy watching it. I hate the Porgs but my annoyance with them was echoed by Chewie so it kinda balanced out.

What I hated…

-le sigh- The parts that I loved about this film is not over shadowed, but comes close by what I hated about it. The humor is so Disney it hurts. In fact, most of, if not all of what I disliked about the film can be summarized by the term “over-Disnefied”, it hurts so much… Everything from the Porgs, to the casino planet sequence, to Super-Leia, to the Blue Milk coming out a boob… (I loved Blue Milk btw, thanks for ruining that for me Disney)
I understand that a younger audience needs to be reached, and the scene were the kid force grabs the broom, holds it like a lightsaber, whilst looking to the stars is a powerful one, and reminds me why the kid in me still loves both Star Wars and Disney.

The one joke that I absolutely loved however, is the grass tickling that Luke does to Rey “-Gasps!- It’s the Force!” I’ll give it to you there Disney, I was dying haha.

All in all, I think I liked it. The parts I hate about it are what the kids are going to love, and had I watched this as a kid, I have no doubt in my mind that I would have nothing bad to say about it.

I eagerly await Episode IX where (I hope) that we get less Disney, and more of the thematic elements that make Star Wars such an amazing experience that fuels the passions that makes me care so much for a fictional story set “a long time ago in a galaxy far far away…”

Eh I get that you’re excited about Rey redefining what means to be a Jedi but isn’t that exactly what Luke did/was expected to do post-RotJ??? I mean, they literally picked his character arc, re skinned it and just gave him anew character arc to fit in with the new Luke. So, in a way, Luke’s also just plot device. Only in a way though.

Collipso said:

Eh I get that you’re excited about Rey redefining what means to be a Jedi but isn’t that exactly what Luke did/was expected to do post-RotJ??? I mean, they literally picked his character arc, re skinned it and just gave him anew character arc to fit in with the new Luke. So, in a way, Luke’s also just plot device. Only in a way though.

Can’t really use Luke to forge a new path if the story is this far into the future though can you? I get what your saying, but we needed these new characters to continue the story, unbound by what came before them.

Enduringhero said:

…

I loved that Rey is a nobody
…

And we know this for a fact? Just because some creep says so, does not make it true.

Rask40 said:

Enduringhero said:

…

I loved that Rey is a nobody
…

And we know this for a fact? Just because some creep says so, does not make it true.

This is very true, and I would say this only adds to story. TLJ is very much so the polar opposite of ESB. So many echoes to that film thematically, but they’re turned upside down brilliantly.

NeverarGreat said:

Collipso said:

Eh I get that you’re excited about Rey redefining what means to be a Jedi but isn’t that exactly what Luke did/was expected to do post-RotJ??? I mean, they literally picked his character arc, re skinned it and just gave him anew character arc to fit in with the new Luke. So, in a way, Luke’s also just plot device. Only in a way though.

That’s not entirely true. Yoda wanted Luke to ‘pass on what you have learned’, implying that the Jedi would come back, or return, as they were before the purge. There was no talk of ‘redefining what it means to be a Jedi’. In TLJ, Luke explicitly states that the Jedi should end, and specifically avoids teaching Rey the rules and dogma of the Jedi. She really is free to make her own way.

Yeah but Luke learned things so differently than the Jedi from the past. He was the Jedi that Vader wanted to be and the council wouldn’t let him because of the Jedi code. Luke knew nothing of the code and strict rules and habits of the old Jedi. He had his idea of what being a Jedi really meant, and he was going to pass THAT on. But apparently he decided to become a pond of the Jedi council, ultimately failing and making his Jedi Order seem like a WW1 to Rey’s Jedi Order being WW2. (In a sense that WW1 is the “forgotten” war and WW2 the “important” one)
At the point of the OT, both Yoda and Obi-Wan had more loose views on the Jedi code too, and that’s what they taught Luke, and even so Luke challenged them and did what he thought was right, becoming the “best Jedi”.
That’s always been my understanding of it, what I thought had happened. That’s one of the main reasons why the new Star Wars got mixed feelings from me.

DominicCobb said:

What’s funny to me is people complained that TFA played it too safe, now this did the opposite of that and people are still complaining.

Why is this funny? Why do people have to like this movie because it didn’t recycle OT plot points? That’s the lowest bar I can think of. Is it so outrageous that they still wanted a Star Wars movie? Is overcorrecting and not remaining consistent with characters, plot and tone impossible? I would also argue this movie is not too different at it’s core, you end up at the same point that TFA ended minus a few characters we knew nothing about anyway.

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

I really like in the RLM review how they point out Force Yoda acts like fake Yoda from ESB. He was acting crazy to test Luke but when it’s time for the movie to get serious, he starts acting serious. In this movie he acts weird and crazy just to yak it up for the audience, which I found really unsettling too.

Yes! Thank you! I noticed this immediately. Why didn’t anyone else?

I’ve been wondering about RJ’s vision for the Force. Some have argued, that anyone can be a Jedi now, that’s great! Looking at it more closely, I don’t think that’s really the case.

When Lucas created the original Star Wars, most people got the impression, that anyone can be a Jedi. You just have to study it, work hard, and there you go. Lucas himself held this view, as is evident from his 1977 definitions, that I posted earlier.

Then over the course of the OT genetics seemed to be introduced. Luke became part of a family line of powerful Jedi. The Force is strong in his family. This still doesn’t preclude anyone from becoming a Jedi. It just means some of us are more talented than others, just like in real life. Other explanations can be introduced for the Skywalker’s innate Force potential, but this one’s pretty logical, I think.

Then the PT came along, which showed the Jedi to be elitist. The PT never said, that the Force wasn’t available to everyone, it just said the Jedi only wanted the top of the class, so to speak. Many people understandably didn’t like this. I mean what about character? Wouldn’t you rather have a less talented Jedi with a good character, than a talented a*****e? Anyway, the Jedi were flawed. Doesn’t mean they were allways like this, just that they had evolved into this political elitist organisation.

So, what did RJ do? Did he go back to the 1977 concept of anyone who works hard at it, can be a Jedi? No, he didn’t. Rey just magically has these powers, and apparently so does the kid at the end of the film. No work required. It just awakes inside you. So, what if the Force doesn’t awake in Poe, or Finn, or some other random person?
Tough luck, I guess? Or can we expect the Force to be delivered to them as well? It got lost in the mail, or something. I think not. In short, he’s turned the Force into a lottery. Anyone can be a Jedi, if you’re one of the lucky few. I fail to see how that improves on Lucas’ original ideas, even the version of the PT, where despite the Jedi’s elitist views, anyone could theoretically become a Jedi.

NeverarGreat said:

Maybe when Luke closed himself off from the Force, it was ‘awakened’ in the person most likely to find him and bring him back. This person is Rey, who in addition to being familiar with the ship belonging to Luke’s oldest friend, is also close to a Church of the Force, the members of which are busy trying to find the First Jedi Temple.

That may just be the Force for you, but it sure would be nice if there was more of a hint in the original movie.

A hint of what? That anyone can be a Jedi? There’s nothing to in ANH to suggest it’s only limited to an elite few. It’s a religion long since forgotten of which Luke’s father was a member. Nobody believes in it anymore. It’s an energy field created by all living things. All living things interact with it.

DrDre said:

Here’s “the guy” again, who’s actually a fantasy writer, with his spoiler review of TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdobc7jtQo

He asks a good question, that I actually had not considered (and neither did RJ apparently): if admiral Holdo can lightspeed through Snoke’s ship to allow the rebels to escape, and we know they’re going pick them off one by one once the chase begins at the start of the film, why didn’t any of the rebels (or better yet a droid) sacrifice themselves at the beginning of the plot by having one of the cruisers lightspeed through Snokes ship, such that everyone can escape?

I asked the same question. Why wait? She saw the ships getting picked off one by one, so why not turn the ship around and take them out immediately?

NeverarGreat said:

There’s something special about Rey. Since it’s highly unlikely that it’s a case of famous parents, the other obvious explanation is that the Force was awakened in her for some purpose, and I think it’s logical to conclude that it’s for the purpose of finding Luke due to her proximity to the Falcon and so forth.

Yes, but how about the kid at the end of the film. He uses a force pull. Like Rey he just get’s it, totally going against the idea, that you have to study hard to control the Force. Did it awaken in him too?

I don’t think that just anyone can be a Jedi, you have to have a special talent for it. But to some extent, everyone in this universe can be attuned to the Force. The Force controls a person’s actions, but very few manage to get the Force to obey their commands.

That goes directly against George Lucas’ statements on the subject:

“The Force is really a way of seeing; it’s a way of being with life. It really has nothing to do with weapons. The Force gives you the power to have extra-sensory perception and to be able to see things and hear things, read minds and levitate things. It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different. The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us. You have to come to learn it. It’s not something you just get. It takes many, many years…Anyone who studied and worked hard could learn it. But you would have to do it on your own.”

Anyone can do it. Some may have more talent, like Luke and his father, but it’s not limited to a very few. The only reason it’s limited in the OT, is because you have to study many years to learn how to control it. Nobody believes in this stuff it anymore, and there are no more Jedi around to teach people these things. In the PT the Jedi only appear teach the most talented from a very young age, limiting their number, but this still doesn’t preclude the average Joe from learning how to use the Force.

One cool thing I loved about this. Luke helps the rebels escape and inflicts a symbolic blow to the FO… and doesn’t kill a single person. Very Jedi.

“In biology, there’s a word for an organism that uses an existing life form to provide itself with structure and shelter while it competes with said host for resources in order to grow, develop, and eventually multiply; that word is: parasite. I can think of no better description for what Star Wars: The Last Jedi is to Star Wars overall. I know, that sounds harsh, but remember that a parasite is merely doing what its genes direct it to do in order to survive, what it’s “designed” to do; it’s only a “parasite” in a negative sense where the host is concerned. That host is Lucas’ version of Star Wars and, by extension, the fandom who embraced it.”

“Disney, Johnson, Abrams, and the Lucasfilm braintrust are taking Star Wars to some interesting places in the future, places designed for the next, progressive generation of fans. We can come along if we leave the baggage of the last 40 years behind us and look forward to new interpretations, adventures, and discussions in the years to come, or we can cling to old ideals and lament of what could have been like some sort of cultural refugees.”

“Some day, perhaps 40 years in the future, this current cycle of Star Wars films will be subverted, reinterpreted, torn apart and put back together again, as is the nature of all things. We don’t have to like it now, and we won’t have to like it then. We can choose to be flexible enough to adapt along with it, or remain rigid in our rejection of it. The good news is that, ultimately, that choice doesn’t belong to anyone else but you, and that’s something that no amount of money in the world can take away.”

http://collider.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-problems-fandom-menace/#rey-kylo-ren-poe-finn-rose

I saw this and couldn’t resist one last post… this is a wonderful example of how little has changed. Way back on June 13th 1983 the proto-internet Usenet allowed for a regular fan, not a professional movie reviewer or journo, to post his thoughts about George Lucas’s new movie Return Of The Jedi.

Here’s the link: https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=net.movies.sw%2FmFmFfbvvsG4%2F6TyZ9YBb02MJ

And here is that review, enjoy:

Discrete Review: I started off not liking it, but changed my mind about half way
through once I got used to the nauseatingly cute Ewoks (they had “New Star
Wars Toys” spelled out all over them) and something else I’m surprised I only
saw mentioned once so far.

I thought that RotJ was very heavy on gratuitous violence compared to both its
predecessors. It bothered me that the audience would laugh every time a
Stormtrooper smashed into a tree on his motorcycle. It ended up reminding me of
nothing more than a live-action Road Runner cartoon. This casual attitude
toward death was reinforced when all the good guys ended up coming back as
holograms anyway. Kicked the bucket? Not to worry - you just get a bit
translucent, that’s all. Sort of takes away something in the dramatic impact
department, though.

The plot: And now for something completely different. (The Larch). Did we
really need to see another Death Star blow up? (“It blowed up good”, “Yeah,
it blowed up real good”). Is the plot of this series being recycled mod 2 or
what?

Worst muppet: the blue elephant - gimme a break.

Worst scene: the mushy stuff with Han & Leia on Endor. Also, the
strangulation of Pizza the Hutt was just not convincing. That chain didn’t cut
into Jabba’s neck (such as it was) at all.

Best part: when Luke slices off DV’s hand, sees the machinery, and then flexes
his own mechanical hand wondering if the Emp is right about his “destiny”.

Best joke: when Han is hot-wiring the back door and says “I think I got it”, and
another set of doors closes. Thank goodness at least the Millenium Falcon
worked this time.

Although I thought the final confrontation with the Emperor was the best scene
in the movie, I agree with the comments that it was a rather hokey way for him
to go, down the hatch that is. I don’t understand why he didn’t just turn his
high-voltage arcing on Darth Vader when he lifted him up. He just stood there
frozen, uselessly zapping the ceiling on his way to be dumped. But it was great
the way all the excess blue stuff came splashing back up the well after he hit
bottom. Boy he sure had a lot of it stored up!

RotJ had its moments, but I think my thirst for SW movies has now been
quenched.

		- Michel 

So there you have it… proof that butthurt Star Wars nerds have been around long before this current generation of whiners and nitpickers nursing their rings following The Last Jedi!