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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 60

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I thought this was the worst Star Wars movie. Even worse than the prequels. The story just felt like it was written by someone in high school daydreaming in class, it was so poor and underdeveloped. I didn’t expect much out of this movie but honestly I’m shocked how bad it was. Then there were just so many scenes or sequences that reminded me of the prequels. This movie was like Attack of the Clones on steroids. 😦

It’s sad, because I was really looking forward to a sequel trilogy with a compelling female lead. Instead this is escapist porn. A flat, underdeveloped female character who is all powerful and never earns anything while people around her try and figure out their feelings.

What is this drivel?

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Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

ravenna said:

One of the issues I have with the new movies is the constant over-explanation of everything. Star Wars has never been subtle, but did we really need to see people with monocles and tuxedos on understand that these were rich people?

TLJ was a movie-equivalent of a Thomas Kinkade painting.

It’s an exclusive casino. What are they supposed to wear? Even Vegas has places they won’t let you in without a suit.

You never see anybody in street clothes in a casino in a 007 movie. 😉

The thing is Star Wars is in a galaxy far far away and in the distant past. So I’d prefer it if they kept our modern world out of Star Wars. ie. tuxedos, etc.

It’s like if Luke was running around wearing a t-shirt and jeans.


😉

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SilverWook said:

Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

ravenna said:

One of the issues I have with the new movies is the constant over-explanation of everything. Star Wars has never been subtle, but did we really need to see people with monocles and tuxedos on understand that these were rich people?

TLJ was a movie-equivalent of a Thomas Kinkade painting.

It’s an exclusive casino. What are they supposed to wear? Even Vegas has places they won’t let you in without a suit.

You never see anybody in street clothes in a casino in a 007 movie. 😉

The thing is Star Wars is in a galaxy far far away and in the distant past. So I’d prefer it if they kept our modern world out of Star Wars. ie. tuxedos, etc.

It’s like if Luke was running around wearing a t-shirt and jeans.


😉

They better be bell bottoms!

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Saw it again today. Except for some excessive humor still loved it. Not everything is perfect but it was very powerful and emotional. It definitely got me feeling.

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Possessed said:

Saw it again today. Except for some excessive humor still loved it. Not everything is perfect but it was very powerful and emotional. It definitely got me feeling.

Got my second viewing in today as well. Luke reuniting with Leia still got to me.

The only thing I’m wondering now is how Finn/Rose got caught? Did DJ alert the First Order while he was hacking? Also what was the point of DJ handing back the necklace if all he cared about was money? He could had had both the necklace and the First Order’s reward.

The Rise of Failures

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 (Edited)

Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

ravenna said:

One of the issues I have with the new movies is the constant over-explanation of everything. Star Wars has never been subtle, but did we really need to see people with monocles and tuxedos on understand that these were rich people?

TLJ was a movie-equivalent of a Thomas Kinkade painting.

It’s an exclusive casino. What are they supposed to wear? Even Vegas has places they won’t let you in without a suit.

You never see anybody in street clothes in a casino in a 007 movie. 😉

The thing is Star Wars is in a galaxy far far away and in the distant past. So I’d prefer it if they kept our modern world out of Star Wars. ie. tuxedos, etc.

It’s like if Luke was running around wearing a t-shirt and jeans.


😉

They better be bell bottoms!

I think so? Not sure if he wears the same jeans throughout Corvette Summer.

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TavorX said:

Possessed said:

Saw it again today. Except for some excessive humor still loved it. Not everything is perfect but it was very powerful and emotional. It definitely got me feeling.

Got my second viewing in today as well. Luke reuniting with Leia still got to me.

The only thing I’m wondering now is how Finn/Rose got caught? Did DJ alert the First Order while he was hacking? Also what was the point of DJ handing back the necklace if all he cared about was money? He could had had both the necklace and the First Order’s reward.

Maybe he’s not the mercenary scum he appears to be.

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Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

And now a message from Tv’s Frink.

I apologize for my overreaction and the distraction/annoyance it caused everyone, including Dre, the moderators, Jay, and everyone else just trying to read and post in a thread about a Star Wars movie.

I was also going to ask Dre to reconsider his announcement that he’s leaving the forum, as he’s a valued member of the community, but I see he’s already posting again. I’m glad to see it.

Very happy to hear from Frink, even if he’s a Force ghost for a little while. 😉 These things allways seem so silly when you look back at it. I never meant to offend anyone, but that doesn’t mean what you write can’t be offensive. I guess if someone get’s angry about it, that’s a pretty good indication to reconsider your words. I initially stupidly did the opposite. Anyway, happy things will soon be back to normal, and Frink will be back to liven things up.

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SilverWook said:

TavorX said:

Possessed said:

Saw it again today. Except for some excessive humor still loved it. Not everything is perfect but it was very powerful and emotional. It definitely got me feeling.

Got my second viewing in today as well. Luke reuniting with Leia still got to me.

The only thing I’m wondering now is how Finn/Rose got caught? Did DJ alert the First Order while he was hacking? Also what was the point of DJ handing back the necklace if all he cared about was money? He could had had both the necklace and the First Order’s reward.

Maybe he’s not the mercenary scum he appears to be.

I don’t know, revealing the escape plan to the FO is pretty scummy… especially considering the lives lost. His whole character is about the money. Won’t do the plan unless there’s a deposit up front. Only follows the money based off who has the bigger reward. Saves his own skin for the cost of many lives. Never comes back with a change of heart (hence the surprise of BB-8 and the walker)

So really, him returning the necklace just doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t make up for any of the scummy acts and traits displayed.

The Rise of Failures

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I’ve only seen one screening, but how did DJ know to recommend running a scanning operation? I don’t believe the reveal about that detail happened until after they were on the Star Destroyer/bomber I forget the name of.

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TavorX said:

Possessed said:

Saw it again today. Except for some excessive humor still loved it. Not everything is perfect but it was very powerful and emotional. It definitely got me feeling.

Got my second viewing in today as well. Luke reuniting with Leia still got to me.

The only thing I’m wondering now is how Finn/Rose got caught? Did DJ alert the First Order while he was hacking? Also what was the point of DJ handing back the necklace if all he cared about was money? He could had had both the necklace and the First Order’s reward.

I believe the black emperial version of BB-8 that spots BB-8 in the trash can clues into the fact it’s a trash can and alerts the FO soldiers. The code breaker was with Finn and Rose up to when they got caught at which point he cut a deal with the FO behind their backs.

That’s how I read it anyway and there was no indication beforehand that the code breaker was going to betray them.

.Val

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flametitan said:

I’ve only seen one screening, but how did DJ know to recommend running a scanning operation? I don’t believe the reveal about that detail happened until after they were on the Star Destroyer/bomber I forget the name of.

I don’t think DJ mentioned anything about running a decloaking scan; I think that was Hux that ordered it out of assumption that since their radar wasn’t picking up the transports already, then the obvious conclusion is that they’re being cloaked.

The Rise of Failures

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Valheru_84 said:

TavorX said:

Possessed said:

Saw it again today. Except for some excessive humor still loved it. Not everything is perfect but it was very powerful and emotional. It definitely got me feeling.

Got my second viewing in today as well. Luke reuniting with Leia still got to me.

The only thing I’m wondering now is how Finn/Rose got caught? Did DJ alert the First Order while he was hacking? Also what was the point of DJ handing back the necklace if all he cared about was money? He could had had both the necklace and the First Order’s reward.

I believe the black emperial version of BB-8 that spots BB-8 in the trash can clues into the fact it’s a trash can and alerts the FO soldiers. The code breaker was with Finn and Rose up to when they got caught at which point he cut a deal with the FO behind their backs.

That’s how I read it anyway and there was no indication beforehand that the code breaker was going to betray them.

.Val

Oh duh, yeah you’re right, that droid was monitoring them the whole time.

and yeah that sounds somewhat logical about DJ… but still so strange given his character doesn’t seem like the kind of character to have a heart. He’s a greedy dude who would, at least one would think, keep that high valued necklace.

The Rise of Failures

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darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

I guess somehow I’m an odd man out even though beyond this site I feel like the response has been overwhelmingly positive.

To address a couple complaints… One of the bigger surprises was that I had no idea this would be the funniest Star Wars film. All of the comedy was pitch perfect, I thought. And am I the only one who LOVED that Leia moment? The only scene that brought tears to my eyes.

I’m very neutral on Luke’s death, I can see both sides of that. Need to watch again.

The biggest disappointment is that they so clearly set up a story that can’t be told anymore.

Which story thread specifically? I do agree that this feels like the end of a saga/trilogy and I’m honestly fine with that. Depending on how episode 9 turns out, I am fine with this as the last film of the saga. Not a cut and dry fairy tale ending but you still feel that Kylo lost and the heroes won. I know it sounds crazy but the emotion feels that way. Not the actual galactic situation.

It seems pretty clear that Leia was going to have a big part in IX, obviously in leading the Resistance but also in mentoring Rey and most likely saving Ben.

I completely agree. Apart of me is sad that we won’t see that story thread continue since it so well set up. But she was wonderful in this and her last scene with Luke is simply beautiful. The line of “No one is ever truly gone” served both the themes of the movie and spoke measures about Carrie and her positive influence on everyone’s lives and how our princess will truly always be with us.

I love what you said here. I had to hold back tears when Luke said no one is ever truly gone …

Loved this movie. Like that leia got to use the force to save herself, she hasnt had many opportunuties to use the force over the years. Her sensing when luke died, too, is reminiscent of her connection with him in the cloud city. I wonder what they will do since Leia did clearly have a big part to play in the next movie…

I like the growing connection between Kylo Ren and rey…and am curious to see how their relationship plays out…

Padme

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 (Edited)

TavorX said:

SilverWook said:

TavorX said:

Possessed said:

Saw it again today. Except for some excessive humor still loved it. Not everything is perfect but it was very powerful and emotional. It definitely got me feeling.

Got my second viewing in today as well. Luke reuniting with Leia still got to me.

The only thing I’m wondering now is how Finn/Rose got caught? Did DJ alert the First Order while he was hacking? Also what was the point of DJ handing back the necklace if all he cared about was money? He could had had both the necklace and the First Order’s reward.

Maybe he’s not the mercenary scum he appears to be.

I don’t know, revealing the escape plan to the FO is pretty scummy… especially considering the lives lost. His whole character is about the money. Won’t do the plan unless there’s a deposit up front. Only follows the money based off who has the bigger reward. Saves his own skin for the cost of many lives. Never comes back with a change of heart (hence the surprise of BB-8 and the walker)

So really, him returning the necklace just doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t make up for any of the scummy acts and traits displayed.

Maybe it’s one tiny sign of regret? I once saw a movie or a tv show where a KGB agent has a dissident arrested. After the dissident is taken away, the agent picks up the dropped letter the dissident was going to mail to his mother and puts it in a mailbox.

If DJ appears in the next film Finn might just shoot him first. Or the Resistance might have to reluctantly deal with him to get new ships.

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DrDre said:

This guy attempts to analyze what the difference is between George Lucas’ vision for Star Wars and the new movies. I think he actually makes some interesting points:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYroQCN-MAM

I think the main problem with these new Disney movies is that there is no character development. If you look at that OT, Han starts out as a mercenary but gradually he becomes a team player and loyal friend. Leia’s personality, naturally, is battle hardened and frostier than ice, but she gradually softens and develops into a sweetheart in many ways. Luke’s knowledge and powers grow dramatically over the course of the three movies.

Rey, on the other hand, started out as infallible wonder woman and I haven’t seen her character develop or grow or change at all. After two movies, she knows the same amount of information she knew at the beginning of the first one; her powers are more or less the same as they were at the beginning of the first one. Poe is the same. At least they gave Finn an interesting backstory, but he was useless in this second movie.

These scripts just seem like they are being created by amateurs. Even the villains are morons and not intimidating at all.

Finally, there are so many cringeworthy CGI animal and gag sequences, it’s like the prequels all over again. This new movie was just a new franchise low.

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I’ve been thinking a bit about why I think Luke’s character is wrong to me, and why RJ’s explanation is insufficient.

The way I view Luke in this film is:

Luke has done something against his values driven by fear, and his actions have made things worse. He feels ashamed about what he has done. His reaction to this is, that he gives up on all of his values, and everyone who shares most of those same values.

I have problem with the first part, because one of the main values of Jediism is to control your fears. To be a Jedi is to be level headed, to not be impulsive. This also goes back to what Mark Hamill has said: “A Jedi wouldn’t do that”. Luke is a Jedi, that was one of the outcomes of his arc in the OT, and TLJ now wants us to accept, that Luke acted against those values impulsively. Of course we’ve seen Jedi act against their values before, most famously Anakin. However, with Anakin it was a process that was developed over the process over three films, and I think it can actually be argued, that Anakin never really accepted many of the values of the Jedi in the first place. Then there’s Mace Windu, who at the end of ROTS wanted to execute a seemingly defeated Darth Sidious. Here again we’ve seen the buildup of the conflict, and the effect that has had on the Jedi. They’re starting to come apart. What’s happening in ROTS is not a vision of evil, it’s real evil. RJ spents next to no time building up Luke’s sudden impulsive act, an act we may understand from a human perspective, but not from a Jedi’s perspective, and that’s where this movie really drops the ball in my view.

I have an even bigger problem with the second part, namely that Luke’s mistake causes him to give up on all his values instantly. After spending an entire trilogy returning the Jedi values back to the galaxy, he gives up on them completely, and in this film is actively campaigning against them. The Jedi are somehow wrong for attempting to channel the Force in a way, that for a thousand generations has prevented evil from spreading throughout the galaxy. The Jedi made mistakes in the final days of the Galactic Republic, but surely that can’t be attributed to their core values. Those core values are likely reflected in those old books Luke found in the Jedi tree, the books that Yoda jokingly says, aren’t page turners. In my view there’s something really wrong with a film, that argues these books with these core values should go up in flames. It’s reasonable to argue, that they should evolve, but kill the past? I feel this movie and it’s creators really don’t understand the themes and values represented by George Lucas’ original six film saga. They’re desperately shifting around the building blocks of the previous films in hopes of creating something that seems fresh, but in doing so are sacrificing the heart of what makes Star Wars…Star Wars.

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Luke’s character is all wrong in this new trilogy. Even Mark Hamill said he fundamentally disagrees with everything they are doing with Luke.

I don’t think the Disney crew understands Star Wars at all. Total money grab. mad

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DrDre said:

I’ve been thinking a bit about why I think Luke’s character is wrong to me, and why RJ’s explanation is insufficient.

The way I view Luke in this film is:

Luke has done something against his values driven by fear, and his actions have made things worse. He feels ashamed about what he has done. His reaction to this is, that he gives up on all of his values, and everyone who shares most of those same values.

I have problem with the first part, because one of the main values of Jediism is to control your fears. To be a Jedi is to be level headed, to not be impulsive. This also goes back to what Mark Hamill has said: “A Jedi wouldn’t do that”. Luke is a Jedi, that was one of the outcomes of his arc in the OT, and TLJ now wants us to accept, that Luke acted against those values impulsively. Of course we’ve seen Jedi act against their values before, most famously Anakin. However, with Anakin it was a process that was developed over the process over three films, and I think it can actually be argued, that Anakin never really accepted many of the values of the Jedi in the first place. Then there’s Mace Windu, who at the end of ROTS wanted to execute a seemingly defeated Darth Sidious. Here again we’ve seen the buildup of the conflict, and the effect that has had on the Jedi. They’re starting to come apart. What’s happening in ROTS is not a vision of evil, it’s real evil. RJ spents next to no time building up Luke’s sudden impulsive act, an act we may understand from a human perspective, but not from a Jedi’s perspective, and that’s where this movie really drops the ball in my view.

I have an even bigger problem with the second part, namely that Luke’s mistake causes him to give up on all his values instantly. After spending an entire trilogy returning the Jedi values back to the galaxy, he gives up on them completely, and in this film is actively campaigning against them. The Jedi are somehow wrong for attempting to channel the Force in a way, that for a thousand generations has prevented evil from spreading throughout the galaxy. The Jedi made mistakes in the final days of the Galactic Republic, but surely that can’t be atributed to their core values. Those core values are likely reflected in those old books Luke found in the Jedi tree, the books that Yoda jokingly says, aren’t page turners. In my view there’s something really wrong with a film, that argues these books with these core values should go up in flames. It’s reasonable to argue, that they should evolve, but kill the past? I feel this movie and it’s creator really don’t understand the themes and values represented by George Lucas’ original six film saga.

Luke’s entire reason for being a Jedi was because his father did it and it seemed like a good career path after his future in moisture farming went up in flames. It seems harsh, but there it is. In Empire, he realizes that his father actually wasn’t this great hero but a massive jerk who ruined Star Wars for everyone thirty years ago. By the end of the trilogy, Luke finally makes some peace with that. He boldly proclaims that he is not just a Jedi, but specifically ‘a Jedi like my father’. Basically, he sees in himself the same potential for failure and may even realize how the Jedi religion sets people up to fail, and he is okay with that. The trilogy ends with him being torn between two worlds - the world of his friends, and the world of his Jedi teachers who want him to spread their failed teachings throughout the universe. He tries to be the Jedi sage, and it predictably fails, to the ruin of both his friends and the Jedi. Now he’s master of exactly zero worlds, so I can totally see why he’d try to hunt down the Jedi texts and burn them. After all, in some ways this is ultimately the fault of the religion.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

Luke’s entire reason for being a Jedi was because his father did it and it seemed like a good career path after his future in moisture farming went up in flames. It seems harsh, but there it is. In Empire, he realizes that his father actually wasn’t this great hero but a massive jerk who ruined Star Wars for everyone thirty years ago. By the end of the trilogy, Luke finally makes some peace with that. He boldly proclaims that he is not just a Jedi, but specifically ‘a Jedi like my father’. Basically, he sees in himself the same potential for failure and may even realize how the Jedi religion sets people up to fail, and he is okay with that. The trilogy ends with him being torn between two worlds - the world of his friends, and the world of his Jedi teachers who want him to spread their failed teachings throughout the universe. He tries to be the Jedi sage, and it predictably fails, to the ruin of both his friends and the Jedi. Now he’s master of exactly zero worlds, so I can totally see why he’d try to hunt down the Jedi texts and burn them. After all, in some ways this is ultimately the fault of the religion.

None of this is true at all, especially the part where you say he realizes the Jedi religion sets people up to fail. Luke was proud of becoming a Jedi by the end of the original trilogy. It was his character arc that he had been striving for over the course of three movies. Even by Return of the Jedi, when he had become exceedingly powerful, Yoda told him he was not a Jedi yet. He had one more task to finish. He confronted his father, and did not turn.

Luke was proud to become a Jedi. Good defeated evil.

All of this nonsense about the Jedi being bad is nonsense being created by people who don’t understand Star Wars and are just trying to do a money grab. It is heretical.

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I seriously can’t believe that’s the narrative going around these stories and some parts of the web right now.

The Jedi are bad

Think about that for a minute… mad

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Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

NeverarGreat said:

Luke’s entire reason for being a Jedi was because his father did it and it seemed like a good career path after his future in moisture farming went up in flames. It seems harsh, but there it is. In Empire, he realizes that his father actually wasn’t this great hero but a massive jerk who ruined Star Wars for everyone thirty years ago. By the end of the trilogy, Luke finally makes some peace with that. He boldly proclaims that he is not just a Jedi, but specifically ‘a Jedi like my father’. Basically, he sees in himself the same potential for failure and may even realize how the Jedi religion sets people up to fail, and he is okay with that. The trilogy ends with him being torn between two worlds - the world of his friends, and the world of his Jedi teachers who want him to spread their failed teachings throughout the universe. He tries to be the Jedi sage, and it predictably fails, to the ruin of both his friends and the Jedi. Now he’s master of exactly zero worlds, so I can totally see why he’d try to hunt down the Jedi texts and burn them. After all, in some ways this is ultimately the fault of the religion.

None of this is true at all, especially the part where you say he realizes the Jedi religion sets people up to fail. Luke was proud of becoming a Jedi by the end of the original trilogy. It was his character arc that he had been striving for over the course of three movies. Even by Return of the Jedi, when he had become exceedingly powerful, Yoda told him he was not a Jedi yet. He had one more task to finish. He confronted his father, and did not turn.

Luke was proud to become a Jedi. Good defeated evil.

All of this nonsense about the Jedi being bad is nonsense being created by people who don’t understand Star Wars and are just trying to do a money grab. It is heretical.

I’m not saying that he wasn’t proud to become a Jedi, but I’d say he was more defiant in the face of evil than proud of his accomplishment. Good does defeat evil, but it’s not the good of the Jedi religion, rather it’s the human decency in Luke and Vader that makes both of them realize that there are more powerful things in the universe besides the Jedi and the Sith. Because make no mistake; according to Yoda, Luke should have turned to the Dark Side when he attacked Vader in a rage. It wasn’t the Jedi teachings that saved Luke in that moment.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)