My thoughts on various changes — Page 5

ray_afraid said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

ray_afraid said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

ray_afraid said:

Best argument for Shaw being there is that WE JUST SAW HIM DIE.

The Shaw we saw die and the one who appears as a ghost look very different.

Once again, if you think his ghost should have been scarred, then Obi-Wan’s ghost should be missing his lower half.
It’s clearly the same man.

The difference is that Obi-Wan wasn’t cut down until he died. Shaw’s ghost is appearing as someone who never existed.

I get it. You like the horrible PT films. It’s just easier for me to say he never looked like Hayden because that character never existed for me.
It’s still backwards thinking though. The PT kool-aid has poisoned your mind.

Until the Prequels came along, it made sense to have Shaw as the ghost, since, for all we know, that could’ve been what Anakin looked like. If you’d rather pretend they never came along, having Shaw’s ghost makes perfect sense.

ray_afraid said:

But this is a problem with the PT, not the OT.
The PT dropped the ball on what was already established.
And it still makes more sense for him to appear as a perfect form of the good man he died as rather than the horrible, rotten kid he used to be.

I think this is what bugs me the most - the fact that Lucas chose to retrofit the OT to fit the PT rather than just simply honour what the OT had established.
In the case of Anakin he was originally supposed to be an older man when he died - hence the choice of the distinguished Mr Shaw. It’s the later decision to have ROTJ Anakin be in his mid-40s that makes the whole thing jarring from whichever perspective. Shaw is/was clearly older than 45, and Anakin reverting to his 23 year old self is even sillier. Lucas should’ve just stuck with the timeline and had Anakin be in his 30s for ROTS. That way he would be at least 55+ in ROTJ and the idea of Shaw being the older (and redeemed) version of the same guy would make perfect sense.

Regarding the argument that the “Shaw ghost never existed”, well…the Hayden ghost never existed in that specific form either. He clearly has both arms intact when one should be missing (and yes, both hands are visible in the wide shot). So if the Hayden ghost is okay from that standpoint, then so is the Shaw ghost. Therefore, the “Shaw ghost never existed” argument is no longer valid.

So since we’ve now established this, we can look towards other factors. The Hayden ghost symbolizes regression back to an unstable man who had already begun his descent to the dark side (had murdered an entire village, including women & children). The Shaw ghost, on the other hand, symbolizes growth and shows that Anakin has learned from his past mistakes to truly become a good person in the end. That, and he is the same person (albeit with healed injuries) that Luke just saw behind the mask. So the Shaw ghost makes far more sense, even with the prequels. The only thing the Hayden ghost has going is familiarity with those who like the prequels or saw them first. It was a way to connect the trilogies that doesn’t actually make much sense when you really think about it.

theMaestro said:

Regarding the argument that the “Shaw ghost never existed”, well…the Hayden ghost never existed in that specific form either. He clearly has both arms intact when one should be missing (and yes, both hands are visible in the wide shot). So if the Hayden ghost is okay from that standpoint, then so is the Shaw ghost. Therefore, the “Shaw ghost never existed” argument is no longer valid.

I’m not saying the Hayden ghost is perfect. It’s just the less wrong option.

Can we please stop endlessly arguing in circles about Anakin’s ghost on this thread.

Anakin Starkiller said:

theMaestro said:

Regarding the argument that the “Shaw ghost never existed”, well…the Hayden ghost never existed in that specific form either. He clearly has both arms intact when one should be missing (and yes, both hands are visible in the wide shot). So if the Hayden ghost is okay from that standpoint, then so is the Shaw ghost. Therefore, the “Shaw ghost never existed” argument is no longer valid.

I’m not saying the Hayden ghost is perfect. It’s just the less wrong option.

Depends on your view of the story.

Anakin Starkiller said:
I’m not saying the Hayden ghost is perfect. It’s just the less wrong option.

No it’s not. It’s the most wrong option. Makes no sense given that the ghosts around him are the age at which they died. And makes no sense symbolically either to have the ghost be someone who cannot even be considered a good person.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Can we please stop endlessly arguing in circles about Anakin’s ghost on this thread.

Is one person endlessly arguing a point that no one else agrees with considered endlessly arguing in circles?

You can stop at any time.

ray_afraid said:

But this is a problem with the PT, not the OT.
The PT dropped the ball on what was already established.
And it still makes more sense for him to appear as a perfect form of the good man he died as rather than the horrible, rotten kid he used to be.

Spot on.

theMaestro said:

Regarding the argument that the “Shaw ghost never existed”, well…the Hayden ghost never existed in that specific form either. He clearly has both arms intact when one should be missing (and yes, both hands are visible in the wide shot). So if the Hayden ghost is okay from that standpoint, then so is the Shaw ghost. Therefore, the “Shaw ghost never existed” argument is no longer valid.

So since we’ve now established this, we can look towards other factors. The Hayden ghost symbolizes regression back to an unstable man who had already begun his descent to the dark side (had murdered an entire village, including women & children). The Shaw ghost, on the other hand, symbolizes growth and shows that Anakin has learned from his past mistakes to truly become a good person in the end. That, and he is the same person (albeit with healed injuries) that Luke just saw behind the mask. So the Shaw ghost makes far more sense, even with the prequels. The only thing the Hayden ghost has going is familiarity with those who like the prequels or saw them first. It was a way to connect the trilogies that doesn’t actually make much sense when you really think about it.

+1 We’ll said.

TV’s Frink said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Can we please stop endlessly arguing in circles about Anakin’s ghost on this thread.

Is one person endlessly arguing a point that no one else agrees with considered endlessly arguing in circles?

You can stop at any time.

He just wanted his “less (least?) wrong” post to be the last word on the matter 😉

.Val