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Ranking the Star Wars films — Page 114

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NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

I have heard many men call female characters a Mary Sue. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone call someone a Gary Stu is in a sad desperate attempt to defend their use of Mary Sue.

I previously linked to a good example of the term in use, but here are some pull quotes from the reviews for your reading pleasure:

Ok, now I’ve heard it once.

If you can show me that Mary Sue isn’t used far more often than Gary Stu, I’d love to see it.

I’m not a miracle worker 😉

Don’t tell your new friend Maxim, it will break his heart. :p

Whence came you by the assumption that we agree?

Sorry, I only meant that he thought you were his new friend. Entirely one-sided for sure!

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  1. The Empire Strikes Back
  2. A New Hope (Star Wars)
  3. Rogue One
  4. Revenge of the Sith
  5. Return of the Jedi
  6. The Force Awakens
  7. Attack of the Clones
  8. The Phantom Menace

Now lets change the subject and talk about how ridiculous it is that I have ROTS ahead of ROTJ and TFA.

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MaximRecoil said:

yhwx said:
Wikipedia editors can decide what sources to choose and how to interpolate that information, m’kay?

And please don’t “well, actually” me again and say how technically it isn’t allowed under the rules. The thing is, when a majority of people in a group are men, the group is going to collectively hold masculine viewpoints. And those viewpoints can be wrong and toxic.

Take your misandry somewhere else. It doesn’t make for a valid argument.

Ahahahaha. Nice.

My new user title here would be “Chief Misandrist.”

Sure, there’s weight given to people with especially large and coveted megaphones. But there’s still some weight given to those who have less social standing. Otherwise, slang terms wouldn’t make it into the dictionary.

Which is why it’s considered slang to begin with, because it hasn’t reached the status of a generally accepted word.

But it’s still in the dictionary.

Since you seem to have lost interest in reasonable discussion (did you ever have it in the first place), here’s the main points in nice, bullet-point form:

  • The term “Mary Sue” is used in a misogynist way, regardless of how it was originally intended
  • The term is a product of the sexist society that we live in
  • Try not to say Mary Sue. It’s an offensive term.
  • Wikipedia is a great source for information, but its internal process has many problems
  • I am not a misandrist.

Now, good day, sir. I will not be engaging with you further.

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mfastx said:

Now lets change the subject and talk about how ridiculous it is that I have ROTS ahead of ROTJ and TFA.

At least it isn’t above Rogue One.

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I might be able to give you ROTS above ROTJ, but certainly not TFA.

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I don’t think it’s that ridiculous to have a prequel ahead of TFA. I didn’t like Rogue One either but at least that one was pretty straightforward and contained in itself, which I can appreciate and easily makes it better than the PT. I don’t get the love for TFA. It wasn’t my thing. I’ll the Last Jedi a chance though because I do like the new trio of leads but I don’t have high hopes.

For all its problems I’d still rather watch Jedi ten times in a row than watch the PT once.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

For all its problems I’d still rather watch Jedi ten times in a row than watch the PT once.

This. And as everyone’s sick and tired of hearing, I hate ROTJ.

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moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think it’s that ridiculous to have a prequel ahead of TFA.

I understand people not liking TFA (especially if the rehash stuff bothers you) but I don’t see how anyone can claim any of the prequels are better-made movies.

If you enjoy them more, I guess I understand that…sort of.

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This thread, jeez 😬

I don’t think I’ve ever actually ranked the Star Wars movies before. Hmm, here goes:

  1. Star Wars

  2. Empire

  3. Jedi

  4. The Force Awakens

  5. Rogue One

  6. Sith

  7. Phantom Menace

  8. Clones

(The Ewok movies fit in between 6 and 7.)

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TV’s Frink said:

NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

I have heard many men call female characters a Mary Sue. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone call someone a Gary Stu is in a sad desperate attempt to defend their use of Mary Sue.

I previously linked to a good example of the term in use, but here are some pull quotes from the reviews for your reading pleasure:

Ok, now I’ve heard it once.

If you can show me that Mary Sue isn’t used far more often than Gary Stu, I’d love to see it.

I’m not a miracle worker 😉

Don’t tell your new friend Maxim, it will break his heart. :p

Whence came you by the assumption that we agree?

Sorry, I only meant that he thought you were his new friend. Entirely one-sided for sure!

Brilliant, you know, given that I’ve been arguing with him, and even pointed out that he seems to like the Rey character when I mentioned him. Reading isn’t really something you like to do, is it? You said:

“The only time I’ve ever heard anyone call someone a Gary Stu is in a sad desperate attempt to defend their use of Mary Sue.”

And I refuted your claim by pointing out that NeverarGreat had already used the term “Gary Stu” in this very thread, even though he doesn’t think Rey is a Mary Sue.

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yhwx said:
Ahahahaha. Nice.

My new user title here would be “Chief Misandrist.”

Your concession is noted.

But it’s still in the dictionary.

Yes, and specifically denoted as a slang. Do you know what “slang” means? It means it’s nonstandard.

The term “Mary Sue” is used in a misogynist way, regardless of how it was originally intended

Not only has this already been proven false via reliable sources, but it’s also comically ironic, coming from an admitted misandrist.

The term is a product of the sexist society that we live in

No, it’s a product of people noting a particular character type in works of fiction, and giving the trope a name.

Try not to say Mary Sue. It’s an offensive term.

Already confuted.

Wikipedia is a great source for information, but its internal process has many problems

Wikipedia is irrelevant to this argument. This is the actual source for the paragraph I quoted - http://fmwriters.com/Visionback/Issue30/marysue.htm

  • I am not a misandrist.

Your post indicates otherwise.

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TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think it’s that ridiculous to have a prequel ahead of TFA.

I understand people not liking TFA (especially if the rehash stuff bothers you) but I don’t see how anyone can claim any of the prequels are better-made movies.

If you enjoy them more, I guess I understand that…sort of.

I think that the PT had a little more of a creative vision to it, as failed and sold-out as it was, whereas I don’t see any of that creativity in TFA, or Rogue One for that matter. As far a movie goes, yes TFA is much more watchable, which I suppose is all that counts for most movies, but when you’re never going to watch either TFA or the PT again, that counts for less.

The Person in Question

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And yet I love this thread, so entertaining. See below.

MaximRecoil said:

Your concession is noted.

Do you know what “slang” means?

it’s also comically ironic, coming from an admitted misandrist.

Already confuted.

irrelevant to this argument.

Your post indicates otherwise.

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TV’s Frink said:

And yet I love this thread, so entertaining. See below.

MaximRecoil said:

Your concession is noted.

Do you know what “slang” means?

it’s also comically ironic, coming from an admitted misandrist.

Already confuted.

irrelevant to this argument.

Your post indicates otherwise.

Arguments are a bit more entertaining when you step away from them.

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I always think I can save people from their misconceptions, and, like and behold, it never happens.

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*@#$! I want the Mary Sue crap to stop right now. Another derail and the thread will be locked.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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adywan said:

There are plenty of terms that started out as one thing and were distorted over time to be derogatory towards a certain race or sex. Mary Sue is one of those.

"Mary-Sue
A sexist term used to enforce the misogynistic ideals that female characters/authors shouldn’t be allowed to fantasize or write anything along the lines of wish fulfillment. Its misogynistic qualities are exemplified in many ways, most notably being the fact that it’s not a term dominated by the male counterpart despite existing in a patriarchal society, as well as the fact that the male counterpart is largely undecided upon in name and also undefined (see urban dictionary’s Gary Stu entry which has no definition but to say “A Male Mary Sue”, and the Marty-Stu entry which involves the “Mary Sue” definition to define it).

It’s usually used on the whole to bully new authors out of writing female characters altogether, making the task seem so daunting to some that they now only write slash fictions with two male characters, also exemplifying the misogynistic qualities this term involves."

Do you have a link for that quoted text Ady?

Edit: Nevermind, just saw Wook’s post above.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

mfastx said:

Now lets change the subject and talk about how ridiculous it is that I have ROTS ahead of ROTJ and TFA.

At least it isn’t above Rogue One.

It is for me. Most of them are above Rogue One, mainly because I find that movie utterly tedious, with all the boring characters, especially Jyn, who is the most bland protagonist in any Star Wars film.

Not enough people read the EU.