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 (Edited)

yhwx said:

Jeebus said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

Apple is vanilla. It’s easy to use, if you use it the way Apple intends you to use it. But that’s about the most going for it.

I’d argue against your vanilla point, as if you actually used an Apple product, they’re very opinionated in their design of things

See; iPhone 7 headphone jack.

Yes.

Also, Google’s Pixel 2 has no headphone jack anymore.

I have a Moto Z Play. Before that, I had a Motorola Droid Turbo; and before that a Droid RAZR M. Motorola seems to use fairly stock Android, and I find that I like stock (which means Samsung’s TouchWiz UX skin bugs me). I do have a custom home screen app installed, though.

Z Play is somewhat midrange on specs, but the battery life is hands down amazing. My Droid Turbo had a 3900mAh battery, which at the time was the largest stock battery for a phone, but the 2K display ate battery so quickly you couldn’t really tell.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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yhwx said:

Jeebus said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

Apple is vanilla. It’s easy to use, if you use it the way Apple intends you to use it. But that’s about the most going for it.

I’d argue against your vanilla point, as if you actually used an Apple product, they’re very opinionated in their design of things

See; iPhone 7 headphone jack.

Yes.

Also, Google’s Pixel 2 has no headphone jack anymore.

Google sucks. Bluetooth is never going to happen.

My point is not that Apple caters to idiots and as such people who like Apple must be so. My point is Apple is very user-friendly-centric to the point of blocking off certain customizations, both in the front end and the back end, that I desire (many of which don’t come to mind, but I could immediately point out with an iPhone in hand)—and in being so it’s simply not for me.

And I’d argue that that’s a better decision, as the operating system should yield to the user, unless it is very likely that the user will do something bad.

Why is it Apple’s job to coddle the users and make sure they don’t accidentally fuck something up?

Firstly, it’s not just specifically Apple’s job. It should be every tech company’s job.

Secondly, because technology should be for everybody, not just those who have dedicated a significant portion of their lives to learn the intricacies of it. Technology helps people, and we shouldn’t make it too hard for other people to use it.

90% of people use Windows on their home computer, 70% use an Android phone of some sort; if non-Apple tech is so hard to use, why are so many people using it with no trouble?

It’s actually pretty hard to ruin an operating system, it isn’t something you can just do accidentally.

Not a single person has ever had to dedicate a ‘significant portion of their lives’ to learning how to use a Windows computer.

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Jeebus said:

My point is not that Apple caters to idiots and as such people who like Apple must be so. My point is Apple is very user-friendly-centric to the point of blocking off certain customizations, both in the front end and the back end, that I desire (many of which don’t come to mind, but I could immediately point out with an iPhone in hand)—and in being so it’s simply not for me.

And I’d argue that that’s a better decision, as the operating system should yield to the user, unless it is very likely that the user will do something bad.

Why is it Apple’s job to coddle the users and make sure they don’t accidentally fuck something up?

Firstly, it’s not just specifically Apple’s job. It should be every tech company’s job.

Secondly, because technology should be for everybody, not just those who have dedicated a significant portion of their lives to learn the intricacies of it. Technology helps people, and we shouldn’t make it too hard for other people to use it.

90% of people use Windows on their home computer, 70% use an Android phone of some sort; if non-Apple tech is so hard to use, why are so many people using it with no trouble?

It’s actually pretty hard to ruin an operating system, it isn’t something you can just do accidentally.

I’m not talking about completely ruining an OS (though that is a concern too), I’m just talking about the things that may seem little in the moment but add up to a big sum. There are many frictions that people have with technology that make them not want to use it as much. That should be minimized.

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70% of people use an Android? I don’t think I even know anyone who has one.

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yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

Also: y’all should use Macs.

If you’re into graphic design or video editing, sure. I am not.

This is a misconception that a lot of people have about Macs: they’re only for artsy-fartsy people. That’s just not true. They’re for everybody, from the lest competent computer user to a visual artist to a web programmer. That last one, I think, is a particularly important point, as there was a bit of an exodus from Windows and other platforms to the Mac for programmers in the last decade.

The mass migration within the development and IT fields from Microsoft products to Apple products has been staggering, and these aren’t unskilled users. MS was caught completely off guard by it and they were smart to push into the cloud as much as they have; they’ve been pretty successful there, thanks in no small part to their increased focus on design and usability.

The price comparison is a persistent myth that refuses to die. Similarly configured PCs cost similarly to Macs, and companies that switch to Apple products experience lower support costs and less time spent helping non-technical staff.

Jeebus said:

Why is it Apple’s job to coddle the users and make sure they don’t accidentally fuck something up?

If we lived in the world you envision, microwave ovens would continue to run even if you opened the door. Users don’t deserve to have their faces burned off just because they make a mistake.

Besides, you absolutely have complete access to everything on a Mac, just not necessarily via the GUI, and they’re fairly configurable. Apple took a decidedly different approach to iOS with its walled garden, and given all the security flaws in the various flavors of Android clogging the market, I can’t say it wasn’t the right one. I get annoyed that I can’t place the icons exactly as I’d like on my iPhone’s home screen, but with stories practically every week of some app on the Play Store logging user’s sensitive data and sending it God knows where, I choose to put up with a less-configurable UI. Anroid’s openness makes it inherently less secure.

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 (Edited)

Jay said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

Also: y’all should use Macs.

If you’re into graphic design or video editing, sure. I am not.

This is a misconception that a lot of people have about Macs: they’re only for artsy-fartsy people. That’s just not true. They’re for everybody, from the lest competent computer user to a visual artist to a web programmer. That last one, I think, is a particularly important point, as there was a bit of an exodus from Windows and other platforms to the Mac for programmers in the last decade.

The mass migration within the development and IT fields from Microsoft products to Apple products has been staggering, and these aren’t unskilled users. MS was caught completely off guard by it and they were smart to push into the cloud as much as they have; they’ve been pretty successful there, thanks in no small part to their increased focus on design and usability.

The price comparison is a persistent myth that refuses to die. Similarly configured PCs cost similarly to Macs, and companies that switch to Apple products experience lower support costs and less time spent helping non-technical staff.

Jeebus said:

Why is it Apple’s job to coddle the users and make sure they don’t accidentally fuck something up?

If we lived in the world you envision, microwave ovens would continue to run even if you opened the door. Users don’t deserve to have their faces burned off just because they make a mistake.

I feel like this is a really bad comparison. I’ve never known a Windows machine to harm the user because they made a simple mistake (and who opens a microwave while it’s running anyways?). The only thing you have to understand with Windows is, don’t move/delete the C drive, don’t move/delete system 32, and you’ll figure it all out from there! They’re really simple to use, and you only need to have a deep understanding of its machanics if you want build/repair it yourself.

Besides, you absolutely have complete access to everything on a Mac, just not necessarily via the GUI, and they’re fairly configurable.

This is still a problem. I should be allowed to do anything I want with my computer, and the OS should allow me to do so easily. I’ve never had a good understanding of non-GUI interfaces, so if I want to do anything that for some reason I’m not allowed to do through the GUI, I pretty much can’t do anything about it. I would have to go find some online tutorial that shows me exactly what to do (even then I won’t know what I’m doing), and by that point it caused me more trouble than it’s worth.

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 (Edited)

Jay said:

Jeebus said:

Why is it Apple’s job to coddle the users and make sure they don’t accidentally fuck something up?

If we lived in the world you envision, microwave ovens would continue to run even if you opened the door. Users don’t deserve to have their faces burned off just because they make a mistake.

I would say it’s more like the microwave runs perfectly fine, as if it were a normal microwave; but if you trust your skills, you can open up the back panel and tweak the microwave to have a cooler looking timer, or even supercharge the microwave to heat really fast. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you may accidentally mess up the wiring and the microwave will stop running as well, or maybe even stop running at all; but it’s usually alright in the end because you can rollback the microwave to before you tweaked it at all.

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Dek Rollins said:

Jay said:

yhwx said:

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

Also: y’all should use Macs.

If you’re into graphic design or video editing, sure. I am not.

This is a misconception that a lot of people have about Macs: they’re only for artsy-fartsy people. That’s just not true. They’re for everybody, from the lest competent computer user to a visual artist to a web programmer. That last one, I think, is a particularly important point, as there was a bit of an exodus from Windows and other platforms to the Mac for programmers in the last decade.

The mass migration within the development and IT fields from Microsoft products to Apple products has been staggering, and these aren’t unskilled users. MS was caught completely off guard by it and they were smart to push into the cloud as much as they have; they’ve been pretty successful there, thanks in no small part to their increased focus on design and usability.

The price comparison is a persistent myth that refuses to die. Similarly configured PCs cost similarly to Macs, and companies that switch to Apple products experience lower support costs and less time spent helping non-technical staff.

Jeebus said:

Why is it Apple’s job to coddle the users and make sure they don’t accidentally fuck something up?

If we lived in the world you envision, microwave ovens would continue to run even if you opened the door. Users don’t deserve to have their faces burned off just because they make a mistake.

I feel like this is a really bad comparison. I’ve never known a Windows machine to harm the user because they made a simple mistake (and who opens a microwave while it’s running anyways?). The only thing you have to understand with Windows is, don’t move/delete the C drive, don’t move/delete system 32, and you’ll figure it all out from there! They’re really simple to use, and you only need to have a deep understanding of its machanics if you want build/repair it yourself.

I wasn’t comparing Windows to an open microwave 😃 Just making a point about usability. Preventing users from making mistakes isn’t coddling, it’s good design.

And I’ve seen plenty of people at the office open the microwave without stopping it first, because they know it’s going to stop for them.

Besides, you absolutely have complete access to everything on a Mac, just not necessarily via the GUI, and they’re fairly configurable.

This is still a problem. I should be allowed to do anything I want with my computer, and the OS should allow me to do so easily.

That’s a matter of opinion. The nice thing about OS X is that most Mac users think it looks good out of the box. Users like tweaking Windows because many find it (subjectively) ugly. I created a custom skin for my Windows 10 gaming PC, but I feel no compulsion to do so with my Mac, and I don’t care that I can’t.

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 (Edited)

Jeebus said:

Jay said:

Jeebus said:

Why is it Apple’s job to coddle the users and make sure they don’t accidentally fuck something up?

If we lived in the world you envision, microwave ovens would continue to run even if you opened the door. Users don’t deserve to have their faces burned off just because they make a mistake.

I would say it’s more like the microwave runs perfectly fine, as if it were a normal microwave; but if you trust your skills, you can open up the back panel and tweak the microwave to have a cooler looking timer, or even supercharge the microwave to heat really fast. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you may accidentally mess up the wiring and the microwave will stop running as well, or maybe even stop running at all; but it’s usually alright in the end because you can rollback the microwave to before you tweaked it at all.

I think this is a key difference between more advanced PC users and Mac users. PC users like to tweak, often as a hobby. I built my gaming PC years ago and have swapped out numerous parts since then, which I enjoy. Mac users see their computers as a tool for accomplishing tasks. I like my Mac, but to me, it’s a toaster. I make the toast, then I walk away and forget about it.

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All I can say is: Apple is decidedly not for me. As I said in Banned Users, putting Bootcamp with Windows on a Mac defeats the purpose; I build my own PC from parts, and I like being able to upgrade or replace various parts at will; the “walled garden” of iOS infuriates me; and I’m a gamer, so the PC market is a better choice.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.