What exactly are the problems with the prelogy?
- Bad leadership of actors, and in fact bad actors…
OK, but can not we say the same thing about the original trilogy where,
No.
honestly, Mark Hamill is as convincing as a ficus, and Carrie Fisher owes her aura only to the returns that Harrison Ford gave her?
Mark’s performance in all three films is great and better in each film. Carrie is a wonderful presence and, like Mark, her acting and delivery created a character the public has loved for decades. Nobody remembers anybody (or anything) from the PT for those same reasons.
- Unbearable character (Jar Jar), only intended to please children …
OK, but frankly, are the Ewoks more acceptable? I remember, in 1983, being very disappointed by the Ewoks, I thought it was a heresy from George to close such an important work with teddies. I was a lot more shocked by the Ewoks than by Jar Jar 16 years later.
Ewoks are silly, sure. But everything in the PT is just as silly and executed just as poorly, if not worse.
- Poor scenario, script errors, weak dialogues …
OK, but can not we say the same thing about the original trilogy
NO. Hard no. If you don’t like the OT, why are you even here? The scripts are good, the story is great and the characters are wonderful. ALWTF.
- Inconsistencies and illogisms with the canon …
OK, but the original trilogy is also incoherent with itself
That just isn’t true.
NO. Hard no. If you don’t like the OT, why are you even here? The scripts are good, the story is great and the characters are wonderful. ALWTF.
Well, I love the OT, for the reasons I explain (I was a child, I was amazed by all this universe and this experience).
But while I love it, I don’t think that it is the best films in history.
For the rest, I suspect that everyone will not agree with me, but that is precisely the purpose of a forum: give and share his opinion…
The prequels commit perhaps the worst sin a movie can commit: being boring. I can forgive a lot in a movie if it’s even just a little bit interesting or engaging, but the prequels* are just dull.
*It’s been years since I’ve tried to watch RotS, but I doubt it’s much better.
.
The prequels commit perhaps the worst sin a movie can commit: being boring. I can forgive a lot in a movie if it’s even just a little bit interesting or engaging, but the prequels* are just dull.
*It’s been years since I’ve tried to watch RotS, but I doubt it’s much better.
Yes.
And ROTS is probably the worst of the bunch. It has to adhere to all the shit from the previous two movies and then try to cram in all the story we all thought we were getting over the course of a trilogy into one final movie. The designs are even less impressive than the previous two and the cheese is cranked to 11.
I haven’t watched any of the PT in over a decade and I ain’t goin’ back in to see if it’s aged like wine.
The prequels commit perhaps the worst sin a movie can commit: being boring. I can forgive a lot in a movie if it’s even just a little bit interesting or engaging, but the prequels* are just dull.
*It’s been years since I’ve tried to watch RotS, but I doubt it’s much better.
I take that back, the worst thing a movie can do is be morally repugnant, like Nazi propaganda films or something. Being boring is probably the second worst thing.
.
See, I think that the prequels have a couple of problems.
A couple?
I’m trying to avoid Lucas-bashing and be as fair as I can.
Being honest about how bad they really are is quite fair.
See, I think that the prequels have a couple of problems.
A couple?
I count exactly 3 problems
Lol, true.
I think that yes, the prequels are that bad, but that doesn’t particularly bother me anymore. It rankled before the Disney acquisition when the Star Wars series was a closed system and half of it sucked, but now I feel about them the way I do about bad Bond movies. Yeah, Die Another Day sucks, but I’m not angry it exists, and if it’s on TV some slow afternoon I’ll probably watch a chunk of it and be mildly entertained by how misguided it is. There are a handful of set pieces in the PT that I genuinely enjoy, and I was young enough when TPM and AOTC came out that they still kind of work for me as nostalgic junk food (ROTS is my least favorite SW film, and I’m sure the main reason I’m harder on it than the other prequels is because I was well into my teens by the time it came out). I also think I’m just past the point where hating things is fun. It feels a lot better to say “eh, yeah, whatever” to the prequels than it does to get all worked up about it.
Oh sure. Die Another Day is a pretty apt comparison - lazy producers, complacent film makers, reliance on brand awareness instead of creativity. It’s embarrassing and boring but whatever. But as the thread title suggests - is it that bad? Yeah, it’s that bad.
Here is an interesting article that tries to give TPM a second chance: http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars/16258/in-defence-of-the-phantom-menace
Another one that says basically the same thing, with a box-office ranking perspective: https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/09/01/star-wars-box-office-the-phantom-menace-is-one-the-leggiest-blockbusters-ever/#15af9f38ab0f
This one is written in French but is IMHO the most interesting thing written about TPM : https://www.ecranlarge.com/films/dossier/972763-star-wars-et-si-la-prelogie-de-george-lucas-n-etait-pas-aussi-catastrophique-qu-on-le-pense
It says that the errors made in the prelogy ARE what makes the prelogy interesting.
Here is the summary :
If the prelogy accumulates errors and mistakes of taste, it is nevertheless exciting in what it tells once it has been sorted. At a time when Disney shamelessly capitalizes on the franchise and seems determined to prolong it ad nauseam without really digging the heart of his subject and always using the same strings, Lucas had made us an original proposal and highly subversive. To criticize both the system he created himself and the world in which we all live by using something universal and winning the support of everyone to convey an important message.
Yes the result is wobbly, yes Lucas has not lived up to his ambition, but that is precisely what makes his work so exciting. To see the struggle of a man against himself, against his creation that has surpassed him and an audience that thinks that the saga belongs totally to the audience and that its inventor must go in its direction.
Somewhere comes the idea that George Lucas may have managed his bet. Not in the films itself but in their context and reception. He proved to us that we were all potential dictators as soon as we touch our heart, our instinct and our passion and that it takes little to swing from the dark side.
(I do not try to make you change your mind, but just to show that apart from the hardcore fans of the original trilogy, other opinions, sometimes well written and well documented, can also exist.)
I’m fully aware that differing opinions exist, and I’m okay with that, but no thinkpiece articles will be able to retroactively un-bore me during my previous attempts to watch TPM and AOTC.
.
It says that the errors made in the prelogy ARE what makes the prelogy interesting.
Here is the summary :If the prelogy accumulates errors and mistakes of taste, it is nevertheless exciting in what it tells once it has been sorted. At a time when Disney shamelessly capitalizes on the franchise and seems determined to prolong it ad nauseam without really digging the heart of his subject and always using the same strings, Lucas had made us an original proposal and highly subversive. To criticize both the system he created himself and the world in which we all live by using something universal and winning the support of everyone to convey an important message.
Ridiculous.
Of course they aren’t terrible. They’re just terrible compared to the originals.
Even compared to the originals, they’re not that bad. ANH is great, ESB is okay, and RotJ has some glaring issues, but is otherwise enjoyable. TPM is really fun (save for some bits in the middle (mainly Coruscant)), AotC is a slog (the only SW movie I might say is genuinely bad), and RotS is a freaking masterpiece. Overall, I don’t see any overall difference in quality between the trilogies.
^
Ridiculous.
Look, if you enjoy the prequels on some level, fine, but putting them on the same level as the OT (and calling ROTS a masterpiece, for heaven’s sake) is just flat-out crazy.
Of course they aren’t terrible. They’re just terrible compared to the originals.
Even compared to the originals, they’re not that bad. ANH is great, ESB is okay, and RotJ has some glaring issues, but is otherwise enjoyable. TPM is really fun (save for some bits in the middle (mainly Coruscant)), AotC is a slog (the only SW movie I might say is genuinely bad), and RotS is a freaking masterpiece. Overall, I don’t see any overall difference in quality between the trilogies.
Of course they aren’t terrible. They’re just terrible compared to the originals.
Even compared to the originals, they’re not that bad. ANH is great, ESB is okay, and RotJ has some glaring issues, but is otherwise enjoyable. TPM is really fun (save for some bits in the middle (mainly Coruscant)), AotC is a slog (the only SW movie I might say is genuinely bad), and RotS is a freaking masterpiece. Overall, I don’t see any overall difference in quality between the trilogies.
At least I’m not alone!
nvm
I enjoy edited prequels on a level that’s only about 2 or 3 points on an out of 10 less than the ot. The theatricals are terrible, but the problems for me weren’t the story or plot our character dynamics. It was just annoying moments from Anakin (and jarjar in tpm) and overall silly humor that would pop up. So while it’s true snipping things can’t improve the foundations, but it’s enough for me to at least enjoy them.
Look, if you enjoy the prequels on some level, fine, but putting them on the same level as the OT (and calling ROTS a masterpiece, for heaven’s sake) is just flat-out crazy.
I didn’t mean that it’s an objectively phenomenal film, just that it is to me.
[JEDIT]
Forget it.
Look, if you enjoy the prequels on some level, fine, but putting them on the same level as the OT (and calling ROTS a masterpiece, for heaven’s sake) is just flat-out crazy.
I didn’t mean that it’s an objectively phenomenal film, just that it is to me.
In what way though? It’s just as bad, if not worse than the other two in several places.
There are TWO problems: (1) what we see, and (2) what we hear.
Seriously, the two trilogies can’t be compared. The AFI top 100 list has Star Wars at #15, and #1 for science fiction movies. Films101 has a top-1000 list, using a formula based on critics and filmmakers’ reviews - Star Wars is #22 and ESB is #357. That’s for films from all over the world, not just the USA. It is highly unlikely that any of the prequels would ever crack any modestly reasoned top 10,000 list.
That said, I do sometimes enjoy watching them.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
There are TWO problems: (1) what we see, and (2) what we hear.
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
I liken the prequels to diarrhoea, staining whatever comes into contact with it. Unfortunately, the OT has been soiled with this revolting spillage of arse gravy.