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STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - ** PRODUCTION HAS NOW RESTARTED ** — Page 15

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I went through watching ROTJ and made some notes of things that I feel might be candidates for changes. I’d be curious to know what others felt. Some of these have been mentioned elsewhere, so I’m repeating them to add my voice to the choir.

I don’t have times logged, but these suggestions are basically in order from the opening scene until the end. I’ve refrained in this list from too many radical restructuring type of suggestions and limited it more to “fixes” and “upgrades”:

My suggestions:

  • Not sure if the appetite for this, but how about changing the Death Star II design so that it’s less of “A New Hope” rehash? Either a completely new design or one that is less completed?
  • If the Death Stat orbits the “forest moon of Endor” should Endor planet be more prominent?
  • When Jabba’s door droid (TT-8L) questions the droids, it flicks out a “neck piece” with an audible sound, but you don’t see it retract (or the sound is missing if it happens offscreen)
  • Agree with others that the B’Omarr Monk “spider droid” that frightens Threepio upon entering Jabba’s palace isn’t all the frightening. The concept art looks cool though, so maybe the design could get a Revisited treatment?
  • Add blinking for Gamorrean guards to make them seem more alive?
  • Animate the mouth of the alien frog-dog that barks at Threepio when he is first brought before Jabba
  • Make Luke’s hologram more in line with others in the trilogy (desaturate? Less flesh tones?)
  • Animate the “hook tentacle” that grabs Threepio after Jabba dismisses them
  • Improve effect of Gronk droid being tortured. It’s obvious that steam is blowing out of his feet rather than him being branded
  • As others have mentioned, not sure if it’s possible to add facial animation for Jabba to make him more lifelike? Flaring nostrils? Dilating pupils?
  • Improve carbonite thaw effects, especially the mould being way too big for Harrison Ford
  • Improve puppetry look on Max Rebo when laughing at “Bantha Fodder”
  • Reduce Salacious Crumb comedy either by removing scenes or perhaps making his laugh more menacing?
  • It looks awkward when the Rancor grabs Luke, and it seems odd that Luke was grabbed so easily without trying to avoid it. Would it look better if if the first few seconds of Luke flailing were trimmed so that it looks like he planned to be picked up with the intention of jamming the bone in his mouth?
  • Either 1) cut the scene where Luke hides under the rock, or 2) Add a laceration to the Rancor’s finger when Luke hits it with the rock
  • Would it be possible to tone down the comedy by removing the audio whimper of the Rancor keeper, and his subsequent crying?
  • Have blind-Han take multiple shots at the tentacle holding Lando before hitting
  • Assuming that you filmed a matte for Dagobah when you did it for ESB
  • Improve Ben ghost as you did in ESB
  • When Leia starts up her speeder bike on Endor her hand movements are obviously sped up. Not sure if you can fix that to make it look more natural.
  • Not sure if possible, but add more “wind /speed effects” to Luke and Leia’s clothing while on speeder bikes
  • Take out the comical “spinning sound” after Luke chops off the front of the Scout Troopers speeder bike.
  • Give the Ewoks more animalistic grunts? Less purring.
  • Remove comedic spin when Ewok steals speeder bike
  • Show Ewok arrows bouncing off Stormtroopee armour to illustrate the stark mismatch of the two sides?
  • Cut out the comedic shot of Wicket hitting himself with a bola
  • Add Death Star firing sequence sound effects
  • Add blood when Ewoks spear Stormtroopers
  • Replace Chewbacca’s Tarzan yodel with something less comedic
  • Improve the residual explosions when Chewie’s AT-ST destroys the other one.
  • I actually think the Ewok “lasso” and “limbo” traps are believable - keep them, but remove log traps (unless you’re establishing that the Ewok had previously been planning an attack and had time to set these up)
  • Not sure if there is any way to make Vader’s backwards somersault when Luke kicks him to look more realistic?
  • Add lightsaber glows whenever they come close enough to Luke’s face
  • Show impact damage when TIE crashes into Star Destroyer bridge (or if it’s because the bridge deflector is up, show that’s it’s hit a shield and not the bridge)
  • Not enough time for Han to get from AT-ST cockpit into his hiding spot beside the bunker door. Not sure how to fix this.
  • The explosion of the shield generator looks like it should have incinerated Han and company. Is there some way to establish different geography? Or perhaps change the destruction zone?
  • The Emperor’s lightening does have a certain 1980’s “animation over film” look to it. Not sure how to improve that. On my screen the core looks purple. Maybe if it were white?
  • Improve matte on Emperor’s death fall
  • Improve the power generator explosion and Death Star explosion

If these are well-received I’ll try to come up with more. Otherwise I’ll probably just shut up… lol

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doubleofive said:

But the shield doesn’t protect the whole planet.

The reason they have to lower the shield for Tydirium is for that section on the ground. The entire Endor part of the movie takes place in this how-many-ever square mile area…

Actually I always thought the shield is emanated from that enormous dish, several miles from the landing platform.
Star Wars complete locations book says the same.
The Dish is visibly aimed at the Death Star.
The shield emanating from the dish does not cover any part of the ground.
So I see no reason to deactivate it, or fly even close to that. The landing platform is several miles from the dish.
On that holoprojection, the shield should look needle thin near the surface.
Also the book says, “the above ground shield projector plus the undergound power generator and the shield projector complex is about 43 miles in diameter”. And according to that map the distance between the Dish and the landing platform is ca. 4 miles.

edit:
here is the shield projector (page 140)
https://issuu.com/edusantosjr/docs/star_wars_-_the_new_essential_guide_bac1bad41ab16c

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Just a quick question: since ROTJ:R is going to go further into changing the movie we know (i.e. to really fan-edit it - new sequence being shot, dialogues removed, tone altered, etc. - instead of “only” correcting continuity mistakes and enhancing/improving/remaking existing material) is the title “Return of the Jedi” going to stay as it is or is Ady thinking about using the more dark (hence more suitable) “Revenge of the Jedi” alternate title ('cause Anakin gets his revenge while returning as a Jedi) ? Both titles are good but “Revenge” is a little bit better in my opinion.

(in the same trend, could be cool to include for TESB:R an alternate crawl with an alternate title, such as “Shadows of the Empire”)

(as long as you don’t use “Rogue Two” for “A new Hope” 😃)

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MalàStrana said:

(as long as you don’t use “Rogue Two” for “A new Hope” 😃)

Actually Rogue Four does have a nice ring to it.

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Seeing as many have suggested that ROTJ:R begin on Dagobah, maybe there oughta be a Purist Version of this movie too which actually does follow the original structure. But with an Alternate Cut of the movie, that’s where things will get really exciting. 😃

“Did you know, the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?! Look it up.”

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Jani-wan said:

doubleofive said:

But the shield doesn’t protect the whole planet.

The reason they have to lower the shield for Tydirium is for that section on the ground. The entire Endor part of the movie takes place in this how-many-ever square mile area…

Actually I always thought the shield is emanated from that enormous dish, several miles from the landing platform.
Star Wars complete locations book says the same.
The Dish it is visibly aimed at the Death Star.
The shield emanating from the dish does not cover any part of the ground.
So I see no reason to deactivate it, or fly even close to that. The landing platform is several miles from the dish.
On that holoprojection, the shield should look needle thin near the surface.
Also the book says, “the above ground shield projector plus the undergound power generator and the shield projector complex is about 43 miles in diameter”. And according to that map the distance between the Dish and the landing platform is ca. 4 miles.

edit:
here is the shield projector (page 140)
https://issuu.com/edusantosjr/docs/star_wars_-_the_new_essential_guide_bac1bad41ab16c

If they don’t have to lower the shield for Tydirium to land, why do they have to lower the shield for Tydirium to land? I mean, if Ady cuts that whole bit and has Han & Co just sneak onto Endor without a code clearance, then that makes sense. But currently they definitely need the shield to be down to land near the generator.

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doubleofive said:

Jani-wan said:

doubleofive said:

But the shield doesn’t protect the whole planet.

The reason they have to lower the shield for Tydirium is for that section on the ground. The entire Endor part of the movie takes place in this how-many-ever square mile area…

Actually I always thought the shield is emanated from that enormous dish, several miles from the landing platform.
Star Wars complete locations book says the same.
The Dish it is visibly aimed at the Death Star.
The shield emanating from the dish does not cover any part of the ground.
So I see no reason to deactivate it, or fly even close to that. The landing platform is several miles from the dish.
On that holoprojection, the shield should look needle thin near the surface.
Also the book says, “the above ground shield projector plus the undergound power generator and the shield projector complex is about 43 miles in diameter”. And according to that map the distance between the Dish and the landing platform is ca. 4 miles.

edit:
here is the shield projector (page 140)
https://issuu.com/edusantosjr/docs/star_wars_-_the_new_essential_guide_bac1bad41ab16c

If they don’t have to lower the shield for Tydirium to land, why do they have to lower the shield for Tydirium to land? I mean, if Ady cuts that whole bit and has Han & Co just sneak onto Endor without a code clearance, then that makes sense. But currently they definitely need the shield to be down to land near the generator.

Yeah, I know, and I think they must have another planetary shield in place somewhere, that protects part of Endor, because both Han and Vader mentions it.
Like the one that the rebels had on Hoth.
Of course it presents the problem of how the Death Star shield clears the planetary shield, because I don’t think it can. That would be a mess.
So Im guessing there must be a small physical gate on the planetary shield, (like on Scarif but smaller), where the Death Star shield can clear the planetary shield without interference.

I know, complicated, but it would work if this would be seen in the briefing on the projector.
I guess.

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MalàStrana said:

Just a quick question: since ROTJ:R is going to go further into changing the movie we know (i.e. to really fan-edit it - new sequence being shot, dialogues removed, tone altered, etc. - instead of “only” correcting continuity mistakes and enhancing/improving/remaking existing material) is the title “Return of the Jedi” going to stay as it is or is Ady thinking about using the more dark (hence more suitable) “Revenge of the Jedi” alternate title ('cause Anakin gets his revenge while returning as a Jedi) ? Both titles are good but “Revenge” is a little bit better in my opinion.

For several decades I thought just as well as you do, that Return of the Jedi means simply that a Jedi returns. I was thinkin it is Luke.
But when I watched the The New Hope, for a zillioth time, a line by Obi-wan caught my attention:
"The Jedi are all but extinct"
and then I connected that with:
"Return of the Jedi"
S now I see it differently. It’s not one Jedi, Luke or Anakin. It’s the Jedi that have returned from presumed extintion.
I could be wrong of course, but I think it makes more sense, because neither Luke nor Anakin/Vader actually "return"s. On the other hand, the Jedi do.

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When Luke looks out the window from the Death Star, the barricade of Star Destroyers positioned to keep the rebels from escaping doesn’t seem to cover much area. Even from Lando’s view when he’s looking at the Star destroyers up close it looks like he has plenty of open space below to escape. The rebel ships could simply fly up or down to get away. I always thought it would be advantageous for Admiral Ackbar to watch Wrath of Kahn, where Spock explains space is three-denominational. Moving the space battle closer to Luke’s window and filling the entire screen with Star Destroyers would show that the rebels were trapped with nowhere to go.

Also, this is something blatant that will probably be fixed without me mentioning it, but there is a shot on the speeder bikes where Luke is talking but not saying anything. It looks like a re-use of the shot where he tells Leia “Stay on that one, I’ll take these two.”

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More than likely it was just intended it to be one big planetary shield, and it just wasn’t shown correctly with the rebel hologram. You could still have a shield gate for access to Endor.

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I noticed users have come with a long list of suggestions, and I have several myself; however for the sake of brevity, I’d focus on the most pressing to me: The film’s structure, more specifically that of the third act.

Often it has been brought up how this film’s climax (and that of TPM) feels like a collection of scenes. Indeed this a problem with a great many blockbusters, multiple climaxes playing simultaneously (The Matrix sequels, The Return of the King, Marvel’s nonesense, etc), often with the transitions feeling choppy or non-existing at all.

What comes to the top of my head: Since the most interesting of the three scenes is the Duel, it ought to be emphasized more. Rather than “meanwhile in the Death Star”, Luke has to be looking at the battle as it progresses, perhaps even catching a glimpse of the Falcon being chased by fighters. As it currently stands, all he sees (as does the audience) are tiny ships in the distance, it’s not clear who’s winning or losing. The scene must also be affected by what’s happening on Endor. Luke could very well sense Leia being hurt, an in turn Vader and the Emperor could feel such turmoil in Luke. What about Leia sensing Luke being tortured by the Emperor, would that be too intrusive?

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exitzero said:

More than likely it was just intended it to be one big planetary shield, and it just wasn’t shown correctly with the rebel hologram. You could still have a shield gate for access to Endor.

I doubt that.
The Rebels on Hoth used their shield to repel bombardment and complicate a land assault but it only covered a small section of the planet. It was a make-shift affair and the Empire had more resources but the shield was designed to protect the station and the generator base itself I doubt it would be feasible for them to extend the shield around the whole planet as well. The construction site is huge as it is. Extending many miles into the atmosphere and surrounding a station the size of a moon.

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I was a big fan of the work done on ANH:R and ESB:R (except for reverting Bobbas voice, and I will fight to the death over that 😄) and am looking forward to the ANH:R:R a lot (though I’d rather the SDs and DS plans are left as they are and any hypothetical RO:R fan edit changes them to match ANH:R).

To me RotJ is the film that needs an edit the most (well excluding TPM and AotC), more so than either TFA or RotS even, but I think the things it needs the most are probably out of Adywans remit of revisited edits (for reference it’s the movement of Yodas death and Lukes lightsabre construction on Degoba and his telepathic convo with Vader as well as a restored subplot of the Moff who’s name I can’t spell, and the removal of Bobba from the film).

However I’d like to throw out a few ideas, mostly already suggested…

Colour correction and lightsabre/blaster fixing (goes without saying really)
New matts throughout
Removal of both musical numbers from Jabbas Palace (or make the origional backing music)
Keep the Sarlaacs beak and enhance it more
Change the Tydirium to the Zeta-class (the exact class from RO)
Change the Emperors ship to a Delta-class to distinguish it from Needa and Vaders ships
Maybe change the AT-AT on Endor (that’s not present in combat) into the RO cargo version
More views of the DSII
The large sized interdictor from Rebels in the background (or maybe two)
Restore the deleted scene of the Rebel general with the silly shirt in command of one of the Mon Cal ships that gets vapourised
Shield glow over the moon
Correct all Imperial ranks
A wider verity of ships (i.e. more ships larger than the CR-90s) in the space battle for both sides
Something I’ve seen mocked up by AggeIw (https://aggeiw.deviantart.com/art/Give-me-a-Hand-216238791)
Add a window to the DSII bridge
Keep Vaders removed eyebrows and let a Rebels faneditor remove them there.
B-Wings, U-Wings (in the hangers not in combat), TIE Defenders
By the time the edit is progressing Rebels will have aired its final series meaning we’ll know for certain if it is indeed Rex on Endor. If it is either a tannoy announcement for him or some short bits of dialogue lifted from Rebels would be nice
As many ships and pilots as you can cram into the space battle, it’s the final battle of the series it needs to exceed Scarif and Coruscant despite the smaller Rebel fleet
Anything you can do to the ground battle to make it better is appreciated in any way providing it downplays the Ewoks as much as possible and possibly ups the Imperial competence down there. However the space battle and Lukes battle are the main focus not the ground one
Keep the ending celebrations but tweak them so it’s a bit less immediate
Retcon Wedges Scottish accent into ANH:R:R and into the Blue-Ray of ESB:R
The views outside of the Emperors window should show the battle and not a static image of 4 SDs with green flashes on them
Sort out the Rancor so it’s more natural in its movements
Replace Haydon with Matt Lanter

Like I say, most have already been suggested but I thought I’d throw in mine as well.

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Does this forum store drafts or something because that’s my old post from pages ago 😕

Anyway, all I was going to point out then was the shield from the dish is quite clearly the DS’ shield not the moons shield and that there’s no reason the moon shouldn’t have either a Skarif style gate or a slight blue tinge just to show on is there.

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Artan42 said:
I was a big fan of the work done on ANH:R and ESB:R (except for reverting Bobbas voice, and I will fight to the death over that 😄)

One could make the argument that Boba wanted to form his own persona, and not live in the shadow of the clones that were in his “father”'s image, so he adopted a different voice.

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Reverting Boba’s voice to the new version wouldn’t be that hard to do if you want to “personalize” your own ESB:R (both interpretations are good but the original one is far more sinister).
Since Ady is no longer willing to do PT:R I guess we won’t see Temuera Morrison’s face when Boba is seducing the cute dancers.

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MalàStrana said:

Reverting Boba’s voice to the new version wouldn’t be that hard to do if you want to “personalize” your own ESB:R (both interpretations are good but the original one is far more sinister).
Since Ady is no longer willing to do PT:R I guess we won’t see Temuera Morrison’s face when Boba is seducing the cute dancers.

A) Accents being genetically determined is silly.
B) His helmet isn’t transparent I assume he would like to not like to sound the same out of his disguise as he does in his disguise. I speculated for a while that there may have been a woman in that outfit. Then Leia pinched my idea 😄 (honestly I thought it was Luke’s mum around 1981 for a weird few months)

But yeah better Fett voice is here to stay so if you want to change it back do your own versions.

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Editroid said:

Artan42 said:
I was a big fan of the work done on ANH:R and ESB:R (except for reverting Bobbas voice, and I will fight to the death over that 😄)

One could make the argument that Boba wanted to form his own persona, and not live in the shadow of the clones that were in his “father”'s image, so he adopted a different voice.

That would work if not for the fact he uses his own voice in TCW.

Bingowings said:

MalàStrana said:

Reverting Boba’s voice to the new version wouldn’t be that hard to do if you want to “personalize” your own ESB:R (both interpretations are good but the original one is far more sinister).
Since Ady is no longer willing to do PT:R I guess we won’t see Temuera Morrison’s face when Boba is seducing the cute dancers.

A) Accents being genetically determined is silly.

But yeah better Fett voice is here to stay so if you want to change it back do your own versions.

It’s not genetically determined though, he uses Logans voice in AoTC and TCW and sounds similar to Morrison (because it was him) when he ages in the same way Rex sounds different when younger (Baker isn’t very good to start with, affecting an Australian accent in TCW) but sounds far more like Morrison by Rebels. None of those are American accents.

I’m just a massive fan of how Morrison sounds (I played Republic Commando) but I don’t feel like making a custom version of TESB:R for the simple reason the recording of the lines isn’t very good in the SE.

I guess I was unclear originally, I meant ‘I prefer Bobba having a Kiwi accent over a generic cowboy one’ rather than ‘I prefer the takes of the dialogue used in the SEs over the original’.

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Artan42 said:

Editroid said:

Artan42 said:
I was a big fan of the work done on ANH:R and ESB:R (except for reverting Bobbas voice, and I will fight to the death over that 😄)

One could make the argument that Boba wanted to form his own persona, and not live in the shadow of the clones that were in his “father”'s image, so he adopted a different voice.

That would work if not for the fact he uses his own voice in TCW.

Bingowings said:

MalàStrana said:

Reverting Boba’s voice to the new version wouldn’t be that hard to do if you want to “personalize” your own ESB:R (both interpretations are good but the original one is far more sinister).
Since Ady is no longer willing to do PT:R I guess we won’t see Temuera Morrison’s face when Boba is seducing the cute dancers.

A) Accents being genetically determined is silly.

But yeah better Fett voice is here to stay so if you want to change it back do your own versions.

It’s not genetically determined though, he uses Logans voice in AoTC and TCW and sounds similar to Morrison (because it was him) when he ages in the same way Rex sounds different when younger (Baker isn’t very good to start with, affecting an Australian accent in TCW) but sounds far more like Morrison by Rebels. None of those are American accents.

I’m just a massive fan of how Morrison sounds (I played Republic Commando) but I don’t feel like making a custom version of TESB:R for the simple reason the recording of the lines isn’t very good in the SE.

I guess I was unclear originally, I meant ‘I prefer Bobba having a Kiwi accent over a generic cowboy one’ rather than ‘I prefer the takes of the dialogue used in the SEs over the original’.

I understand too what you mean. I am on the fence about that. I like the original voice, it added some good personality that matched with Boba Fett. But, to be accurate now due to the prequels, it should now be Morrison’s voice. I understand the reason too why Adywan used the original since he was planning on completely redoing the prequel movies, so he could ax Jango Fett, or at least using his genetics to the clones.

But if I was skilled/had the time, I would implement Morrison’s voice strictly to be “correct” with the prequels. I’d watch Hals’ prequel trilogy and eventually all of Ady’s star wars as my preferred way of watching the movies … well, asides from watching Harmy’s despecialized since they are the only prefered ways of watching “untouched” star wars. 😉

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Bingowings said:

MalàStrana said:

Reverting Boba’s voice to the new version wouldn’t be that hard to do if you want to “personalize” your own ESB:R (both interpretations are good but the original one is far more sinister).
Since Ady is no longer willing to do PT:R I guess we won’t see Temuera Morrison’s face when Boba is seducing the cute dancers.

A) Accents being genetically determined is silly.

Why ? A clone being raised by his model would end up being very close to him, therefore Boba is closer to Jango than any Clone Trooper would ever be. There is nothing wrong with Lucas changing the voice of Boba to match Jango’s, the only issue is that Boba doesn’t sound as deadly in the 2004/2011 versions as he does in the 1980/1997 versions. Had Morrison made a better interpretation of Boba, I would prefer it over the theatrical version. In my opinion he didn’t.

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Editroid said:

Artan42 said:
I was a big fan of the work done on ANH:R and ESB:R (except for reverting Bobbas voice, and I will fight to the death over that 😄)

One could make the argument that Boba wanted to form his own persona, and not live in the shadow of the clones that were in his “father”'s image, so he adopted a different voice.

Accents are formed from where you live, Boba didn’t grow up where his father lived.

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exitzero said:

Editroid said:

Artan42 said:
I was a big fan of the work done on ANH:R and ESB:R (except for reverting Bobbas voice, and I will fight to the death over that 😄)

One could make the argument that Boba wanted to form his own persona, and not live in the shadow of the clones that were in his “father”'s image, so he adopted a different voice.

Accents are formed from where you live, Boba didn’t grow up where his father lived.

But he “grew up” to an extent with Jango at camino. His father had an accent as he raised him “fairly briefly” so he too would develop that accent. Also, if he was ever around any of the other clones, then there would be more sources of the accent around him.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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jarbear said:

exitzero said:

Editroid said:

Artan42 said:
I was a big fan of the work done on ANH:R and ESB:R (except for reverting Bobbas voice, and I will fight to the death over that 😄)

One could make the argument that Boba wanted to form his own persona, and not live in the shadow of the clones that were in his “father”'s image, so he adopted a different voice.

Accents are formed from where you live, Boba didn’t grow up where his father lived.

But he “grew up” to an extent with Jango at camino. His father had an accent as he raised him “fairly briefly” so he too would develop that accent. Also, if he was ever around any of the other clones, then there would be more sources of the accent around him.

He was only like 9 years old. I had family move to Texas, and a year later they already had a southern draw. After Jango died Boba bounced around all over the galaxy. He most likely would have lost the accent.

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“Here we go again” with that Fett voice debate 😉

Wanted to let Ady know I just made a small $50 contribution for Revisited that I hope can be made useful 😃 More will be on the way next month when I am able!

Wishlist Of Ideas/Suggestions For Improving ROTJ

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It doesn’t matter if he did or didn’t spend any time with Jango anyway. He still has a Kiwi accent approximately 3-4 years later, well after his dad is dead and living alongside reptilian accented Bossk, American accented Aurra, and English accented Dengar. Cut Lawquane kept his Australian(ish) accent after years with his French accented family. Gregor kept his accent after years abandoned on a desert. Bobba’s not trying to hide who he is or anything, if AotC and TCW forms part of the backstory to ESB then Bobba would be very unlikely to have developed an American accent.