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TFA: A Gentle Restructure (Released) — Page 36

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Hal 9000 said:

Here’s what I have at this point for the Hosnian destruction, featuring NeverarGreat’s FX shots to darken SKB and remove the star destroyer. The audio sounds pretty unmolested, since the cut to the surface of the planet is in the same place audio-wise that the cut to Finn boarding the ship originally was. I added the sound effect for the exploding planet in the distance. I’m happier with this version than any prior.

https://vimeo.com/216261750
password: fanedit

I feel like there are several noticeable music edits there. I haven’t watched the original film in a while but the cut to Leia stood out to me in particular. Is there any way to just let the cue play out and maybe rebuild the sfx? Easier said than done I know.

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The score during Leia’s cutaway if fairly set in stone since it leads directly into Chewbacca roaring and firing at Kylo Ren. At least, as things are now. It’s hard to tell anymore since I’ve gotten more accustomed to hearing it this way than the original film!

My stance on revising fan edits.

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I’ve listened to “The Starkiller” cue in the soundtrack enough that any change sounds off to me, so the musical splice between the first planet being destroyed and the shot of Sella is quite jarring in that context. Something that Danny Boyle said on the Sunshine commentaries has always stuck with me, and that is that sound is 70% of a movie. That’s why it’s so hard to get right, any wrong note is more unforgivable than even a wonky visual effect. In general, I think the best option is always to present the soundtrack as completely as possible.

Also, I wonder - is the score when Han dies the beginning of “The Starkiller”? They sound so similar, it might just be a case of sliding the cues around to match. This also makes me wonder if there was an edit of the film where the firing sequence happens here just like we’re trying to do.

Jackpumpkinhead said:

NeverarGreat said:

As it is in Restructured right now, there’s an odd key shift in two places where the ‘Starkiller’ track has been inserted. As well, there’s no reaction from the Resistance, so here I’ve tried to remedy both issues:
https://vimeo.com/215916349
Password: leia
There’s still a discordant sound when Han falls into the pit, but it could be further tweaked.
Thoughts?

Just watched this. I would say it all looks good, minus the fade out from Leia to the firing of SKB. I think you should either cut before we see her or hard cut after she reacts.

The reason for the fade was to de-emphasise the fact that Admiral Statura changes position so quickly between shots. I feel like the shot of Leia is essential to the cutaway, so it can’t be cut.

It might be worth it to remove the background characters from her ‘massive disturbance’ shot since they don’t look at all affected by the destruction of the Hosnian system.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

I’ve listened to “The Starkiller” cue in the soundtrack enough that any change sounds off to me, so the musical splice between the first planet being destroyed and the shot of Sella is quite jarring in that context. Something that Danny Boyle said on the Sunshine commentaries has always stuck with me, and that is that sound is 70% of a movie. That’s why it’s so hard to get right, any wrong note is more unforgivable than even a wonky visual effect. In general, I think the best option is always to present the soundtrack as completely as possible.

Also, I wonder - is the score when Han dies the beginning of “The Starkiller”? They sound so similar, it might just be a case of sliding the cues around to match. This also makes me wonder if there was an edit of the film where the firing sequence happens here just like we’re trying to do.

Jackpumpkinhead said:

NeverarGreat said:

As it is in Restructured right now, there’s an odd key shift in two places where the ‘Starkiller’ track has been inserted. As well, there’s no reaction from the Resistance, so here I’ve tried to remedy both issues:
https://vimeo.com/215916349
Password: leia
There’s still a discordant sound when Han falls into the pit, but it could be further tweaked.
Thoughts?

Just watched this. I would say it all looks good, minus the fade out from Leia to the firing of SKB. I think you should either cut before we see her or hard cut after she reacts.

The reason for the fade was to de-emphasise the fact that Admiral Statura changes position so quickly between shots. I feel like the shot of Leia is essential to the cutaway, so it can’t be cut.

It might be worth it to remove the background characters from her ‘massive disturbance’ shot since they don’t look at all affected by the destruction of the Hosnian system.

I don’t think the characters behind her not reacting is a problem at all as I never for a second thought any of it was common knowledge at the Resistance base yet what had just happened. I took it as Leia feeling via the force Han dieing and the Hosnian system being wiped out right after, needing to sit down just like Obiwan does when Alduran is destroyed by the DS in ANH.

.Val

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I made this mockup a few weeks ago and forgot to upload it until now:
https://vimeo.com/221051395
Password: leia

The intention was to find enough footage to cover the entire Starkiller cue without cuts, though I did have to slightly truncate the end since I wanted the original musical placement with the Hosnian shots. It’s more of a ‘what if’ than a serious suggestion.

However, I do really like the shot of Leia directly before the destruction of Hosnian Prime. In the original film, it is very obvious that Leia reacts to Han’s death through the Force, but here it is unclear whether she knows of his death at all. The development of her latent Force sensitivity is irrelevant to the film, and could even undercut the value of Luke to the story if Leia was strong enough to feel the death of a single person halfway across the galaxy. It may even be more tragic that she cannot sense his death, depriving her of even his final moment. This humanizes her and quickly reframes the sequence as being about her relationship to the system which is about to be destroyed. Leia is our only substantial character connection to the New Repubic (through her backstory and through Sella), just as she and Ben were the only substantial character connections to Alderaan. It is through them that we feel the loss of the planets, and so placing Leia directly ahead of the destruction and the death of Kor Sella, it allows the audience to ‘feel’ the destruction in a personal way.

In other news, has there been any progress on the overall edit? I assume this project needs the final versions of Maz’s Castle, the X-wing approach to the Starkiller shot, and the un-timecoded Leia scene to be provided by Sir Ridley, but is there anything other than that?

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Well, there’s only a few things to plug in for this thing to be ready. Those are:

New opening crawl (Sir Ridley)
Maz’s castle sequence (Sir Ridley)
Sound effects for Threepio and BB8 during R2’s new hard drive scene
Kylo Ren mask, and Snoke inexplicably standing, Fx for second Snoke scene (Would be nice, not gonna be a holdup)

I’m afraid my Mac is going to spend the better part of the day restoring from a backup, but that’s what I have on my list, and I don’t think there’s anything missing from it as far as what’s needed to finish the project. I fully hope and expect to have it out well ahead of Episode VIII, for everyone’s viewing pleasure.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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NeverarGreat said:

I made this mockup a few weeks ago and forgot to upload it until now:
https://vimeo.com/221051395
Password: leia

The mockup looks great! It may benefit from some additional ambient sounds during some of the shots. Although the music is the primary audio during these scenes, some of the background sounds (even if they are not completely apparent at first viewing) may aid to the overall polish of the scene.

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NeverarGreat said:

I made this mockup a few weeks ago and forgot to upload it until now:
https://vimeo.com/221051395
Password: leia

I’ve never really been on board with the restructure idea, but after seeing this, I’m pretty much sold. Looks like I’ll be trying out a hybrid of my own with this project when this is finished.

There were some noticeable slowed down scenes during some of the resistance faces. Your Leia interpretation is exactly how I felt watching this. The Hosian sequence is perhaps a bit too long? The X-wing shots when the Star Killer fires are superbly done. I did watch this all on a phone without headphones, so I’ll be back to with more after that.

digmodification.wordpress.com

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Guys, I mostly love it. Not a fan of the “slow motion” effect but the rest is very solid. Almost perfect !

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I absolutely love this. I agree that if there’s a way to keep the full music without the slow motion it would be preferable though

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Well that’s the real trick now isn’t it? And it’s going to require something extra. Another shot perhaps, though I’ve pulled just about everything I can from the available footage.

There could be a shot inserted between the laser destroying the first planet in the Hosnian system and the live action shot on the planet surface, consisting of a still image of Hos animated by the illumination of the approaching laser:
Hos

Alternately, there could be another shot of the pilots reacting to the laser, though I don’t know where I would find such a shot, or of the Resistance base, perhaps a wide shot of chaos. Again, not sure what shot I could use. Any thoughts?

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

NeverarGreat said:

I made this mockup a few weeks ago and forgot to upload it until now:
https://vimeo.com/221051395
Password: leia

The intention was to find enough footage to cover the entire Starkiller cue without cuts, though I did have to slightly truncate the end since I wanted the original musical placement with the Hosnian shots. It’s more of a ‘what if’ than a serious suggestion.

However, I do really like the shot of Leia directly before the destruction of Hosnian Prime. In the original film, it is very obvious that Leia reacts to Han’s death through the Force, but here it is unclear whether she knows of his death at all. The development of her latent Force sensitivity is irrelevant to the film, and could even undercut the value of Luke to the story if Leia was strong enough to feel the death of a single person halfway across the galaxy. It may even be more tragic that she cannot sense his death, depriving her of even his final moment. This humanizes her and quickly reframes the sequence as being about her relationship to the system which is about to be destroyed. Leia is our only substantial character connection to the New Repubic (through her backstory and through Sella), just as she and Ben were the only substantial character connections to Alderaan. It is through them that we feel the loss of the planets, and so placing Leia directly ahead of the destruction and the death of Kor Sella, it allows the audience to ‘feel’ the destruction in a personal way.

NeverarGreat - while I like the previous clip that Hal put up well enough, I reckon the way you’ve done this sequence looks even more effective overall - and that this ‘what if’ makes for a serious contender indeed! And I certainly agree with your way of looking at Leia’s response, if this version was to be included in anyone’s edit.

Here’s a few impressions on it - even though I’m not bothered if it’s left in or not, the removal of the stardestroyer from the ‘laser’ shot works very well overall. And I like seeing the ‘base technicians’ preparing to fire the weapon, as well as your use of the 2 ‘X-wing pilot’ shots. And of course, I really like the use of Leia’s profile at the end of the reaction shots.

But there’s just one major issue I have with your sequence - and that’s the inclusion of the substandard, ‘time-coded’ reaction shot in the mix - however, I wanted to propose something which might possibly help to improve that a bit -

Here’s what I’m thinking - assuming that your aim is to keep the score in your clip the EXACT same length it currently is, then how about ditching that reaction shot of the guy altogether…and REALLY embrace some ‘slo-mo’ in that portion of the sequence, and just s-l-o-w d-o-w-n the rest of the remaining reaction shots, to give them all a ‘SLOW MOTION’ effect at that point in the sequence - so that these reaction shots (including Leia’s profile) end up being stretched out to fill the time between 01:02 secs and 01:13 secs in your clip.

The excellent melancholy music of this overall sequence flows through this sequence right up until we see Chewie fire in rage, and your version has a more epic feel to it than any version I’ve seen so far. I just think a bit of ‘slo-mo’ for those remaining reaction shots might fit in quite nicely at this point in the sequence, especially since some of the ‘laser’ shots already have an almost ‘slow motion’-like quality to them anyway.

As things stand, I reckon your version has a more epic flow to it than any previous version I’ve seen so far, and is worth a bit of further tweaking one way or another. Good stuff.

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Thanks for the input. The time-code would be removed from that shot of course, but it is rather rough anyway. It might be that it could be further cleaned up, but right now there’s just a basic color correction on it.

I’m certainly fine with the slightly slowed shots in the sequence so it’s nice to see someone share that feeling. However, it seems we’re in the minority on this. I can understand the reasoning - slow motion is usually not part of the Star Wars ‘style’, with I believe the only exception being the Dagobah tree. So while it might be a more ‘epic’ feeling to slow things down, it would be more in keeping with Star Wars to simply find another shot to put into the sequence.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

I’m certainly fine with the slightly slowed shots in the sequence so it’s nice to see someone share that feeling. However, it seems we’re in the minority on this. I can understand the reasoning - slow motion is usually not part of the Star Wars ‘style’, with I believe the only exception being the Dagobah tree. So while it might be a more ‘epic’ feeling to slow things down, it would be more in keeping with Star Wars to simply find another shot to put into the sequence.

Yes, the Luke vs Vader duel in the ESB cave was certainly a ‘slo-mo’ case in point. And it actually went on quite a bit longer than the 11 seconds that these facial reaction shots would in this instance. I’d certainly be interested to see how well this would actually work with the rest of your current version, as I think the excellent backing score during this sequence might accompany this method quite nicely.

I kinda look on all these post-Lucas sequels as having a different-looking feel to the original trilogy at times anyway, when it comes to some of the more ‘stylized’ shots that have been included so far - such as J.J.'s ‘crash zoom’ during the Falcon/TIE dogfight through the superstardestroyer wreckage, for example.

Not that that’s a bad thing in moderation - and to be honest, I’m still kinda miffed we didn’t get one or two ‘epic’-looking ‘slo-mo’ scenes in ROGUE ONE, such as this particular preview suggested we might at the time! 😉 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUb_zpdyDpU

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Here’s an updated version:
https://vimeo.com/221136104
Password: leia
I was able to recover some frames by rejoining the Resistance shot that I had previously split, and this allowed me to lessen the slow motion effect on most shots. I also placed the laser going through space between Resistance shots to break up the monotonous sequence of reactions somewhat, and to emphasize Leia’s reaction through its separation from the others. The timecode shot now has a patch and better colors.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

Here’s an updated version:
https://vimeo.com/221136104
Password: leia

…well I think a lot of us will agree that version was damned AWESOME NeverarGreat. 😃

Excellent stuff, and I loved every second of the way you got that to flow. The scene really benefits from your additional reaction shots, as far as I’m concerned…and the placement of the continuing ‘laser’ shot BEFORE we finally see Leia’s pensive expression is PERFECT.

Thank you so much for your efforts on this, as it’s much appreciated. Now excuse me while I go and amend my own FORCE AWAKENS cut-list accordingly, as that was a DEFINITIVE re-structure of the scene to my mind.

BRAVO! 😃

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I concur. It’s fantastic (it kinda reminds me of the best scene of Episode III). I’m also very pleased to read that other fanedits are going to use the restructured version as a base, this is such an improvement over the theatrical cut (I’ll just need to “merge” Sir Ridley’s, DigMod’s and NeverarGreat’s edits to get the “perfect cut” of VII according to my taste 😄).

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Thanks all!

Hal 9000 said:

Approved! Haha. I’m going to see if I can’t comfortably excise the ‘control room’ shots from earlier in the movie.

I believe that the Leia shot is the only Resistance base shot from eariler in the movie, and that is accompanied by the now excised ‘it would take a miracle to save us now’ line. The other two shots are from the later scene which has already been cut. 😃

DigMod said:

Well that was just about perfect. 😃 do you have a lossless version?

Here 'tis:
https://mega.nz/#!vVUnEDqI!Og-cqgUgtFCfE2FcofnzAmCJyUEwGRcsZcha3OgHa-E
Music only (except for when I used the Hosnian planet surface audio)
https://mega.nz/#!6QMkHSIY!ayFfIHfMYoJujB1xf1L1vta8JP4OWsHO9sHeVOmr3EY
Sound effects only: https://mega.nz/#!KJNwzLBL!iOBYunhvOZh9oStZho76gcSXJOg1qxIezNPsxt1s88U

I’ve made a few more tweaks, and I’m happy to call it done, leaving it to a more audial individual to add further sound effects and complete the 5.1 mix.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)