PAL vs NTSC laserdiscs — Page 2

Author: geekza
Time: 18-May-2005 8:54 PM
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PAL is definitely a superior system to NTSC but the problem is that with film you have a slight speedup of the image and sound to meet the 25fps requirement.

Author: Citizen
Time: 18-May-2005 9:43 PM
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As I live in PAL land I prefer most things to be in PAL format because I can't stand the 3:2 pulldown used on NTSC films, however since I got a projector (well, built one, see LumenLab.com) I now have a truly progressive display which means no 3:2 pulldown on NTSC DVDs (unless they're burnt-in) and WinDVD has an option called "PAL Truspeed" that plays PAL films at true film framerate, slowing the video & audio playback so the pitch is correct. I don't know how/if it copes with sending the slowed digital stream to an external amp, will have to try that if I can find my motherboard manual for the SP/DIF output socket.

When I first got my definitive LDs I was playing around with converting them to PAL format and instead of speeding up the audio to compensate for the 4.096% speedup I tried timestretching with pitch preservation, it works but I couldn't find a program that would do it with any real competance, while the speech was fine some tones in the music sounded 'glitchy' due to the sample overlapping method timestretching uses to preserve the pitch.

http://www.haku.co.uk/pics/LukeCruise.gif

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 18-May-2005 11:28 PM
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Sony Vegas will do it with no problem.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Citizen
Time: 24-May-2005 4:22 PM
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For the moment I'm planning on making a PAL set from my definitive LDs, speeding up the audio without adjusting the pitch so that when I play it back on my PC with WinDVD's "PAL Truspeed" setting it'll play it back at the original speed and restoring the audio pitch.

The sample shots in the beginning of this thread are taken from test clips, those same clips played back on a 5 foot wide projected screen look great which is what I'm planning on watching them on once finished, I still want to get the PAL THX LDs for the higher resolution to work with and no jagged broken lines. Aannoyed I was outbid at the weekend on a PAL LD set but just got an email from eBay giving me a 20% off coupon (£20 max, 2 week validity) for buying something with PayPal

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: Jedikev
Time: 24-May-2005 4:23 PM
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Of the both of them, which has the best transfer, Pal or NTSC???

"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".

Author: Citizen
Time: 24-May-2005 5:27 PM
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Aside from PAL resolution being 20% higher than NTSC resolution, from the comparison images; the unscaled but cropped war-room image I posted of the NTSC definitive collection LD, and the same scene Moth3r posted of his PAL DVD created from his French PAL LD (only scaled upwards vertically) it's painfully obvious that the NTSC definitive collection suffers from noticable detail loss - lines & sharp edges that are nearly horizontal are jagged, whereas the PAL set isn't jagged on the same lines & sharp edges.

I'm going to try and get the PAL LD set for two reasons, 20% higher image quality which helps image clarity on a projected picture, and no loss of detail on those near-horizontal edges.

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: Jedikev
Time: 24-May-2005 7:01 PM
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okay, thanks

"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".

Author: Citizen
Time: 29-May-2005 4:15 PM
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I won bidding on a PAL German THX laserdisc set

if the auction info is anything to go by then they only pressed 1,000 of these sets so it's pretty rare, I'm presuming the audio is in German so will have to take the audio from my Definitive set when mastering, I just hope these German discs were made with the same (or better) video source as the French set... *crossing fingers* will post my findings once I receive them.

edit: off back to eBay to sell some stuff to help pay for the laserdiscs...

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: Moth3r
Time: 29-May-2005 4:37 PM
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I'm almost certain those discs will be from the same transfer as the French ones. (Same artwork on the covers as well).

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Author: Wer-Al_Zwowe
Time: 29-May-2005 5:18 PM
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Originally posted by: Citizen
I won bidding on a PAL German THX laserdisc set

So you are the one who overbidded me.

It was one of my hopes to recover some footage missing on the end of disk one side one of the French version.

A new release of Star Wars is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

Author: Citizen
Time: 29-May-2005 5:26 PM
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Originally posted by: Wer-Al_Zwowe
So you are the one who overbidded me.

It was one of my hopes to recover some footage missing on the end of disk one side one of the French version.

Sorry, if the disc has the missing footage I'll gladly send you a capture of it, but if not you'll have saved yourself some money.

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: Wer-Al_Zwowe
Time: 29-May-2005 6:46 PM
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Originally posted by: Citizen

Originally posted by: Wer-Al_Zwowe
So you are the one who overbidded me.

It was one of my hopes to recover some footage missing on the end of disk one side one of the French version.

Sorry, if the disc has the missing footage I'll gladly send you a capture of it, but if not you'll have saved yourself some money.

I've no hard feelings toward you. Because I know that we have the same mission. To create a good version of the OT on dvd.

It would just be a shame if the content of those disc's would never see the internet.

Thank you in advance for the missing footage (if it's on it). On that way I can do "A New Hope". Because I want the complete movie on my version.

By the way, if you need English audio from my French laserdisc set, just send me a message.

A new release of Star Wars is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

Author: Karyudo
Time: 29-May-2005 11:24 PM
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The missing footage is there. I have both German and French editions. Moth3r's also correct: they're from the exact same transfer. I suspect the Spanish version would be the same as the French version—they were pressed in the same plant.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 30-May-2005 12:55 AM
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Was it a spanish plant, or a french one?

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Karyudo
Time: 30-May-2005 2:19 AM
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Austrian!

Actually, I was wrong: the French version was made in France, and the German and Spanish versions were made in Austria. Still, I suspect that since the French and German are from the same telecine session, the Spanish is no different.

I'd be happily proven wrong, however.

Author: rnranimal
Time: 31-May-2005 4:02 AM
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Are all sides of the German set in CAV?

Author: Karyudo
Time: 31-May-2005 5:02 AM
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I'm pretty sure all PAL LDs are CAV, actually! Don't forget that PAL needs only 83% of the frames NTSC does to show film material. The German discs are indeed CAV, anyway.

I still think CAV is highly overrated, except for freeze-frame on mid-range LD players. For capturing, there's really no difference at all between CLV and CAV. It's just how the signal is laid out, not that the signal is any better.

Author: Citizen
Time: 31-May-2005 5:27 AM
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Not all PAL LDs are CAV.

NTSC's framerate is 19.88% higher than PAL, but PAL's resolution is 20% higher than NTSC, the differences near enough cancel themselves out meaning each needs roughly the same amount of space/bandwidth (I think PAL laserdiscs can squeeze a couple more minutes of video on than NTSC laserdiscs).

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: Karyudo
Time: 31-May-2005 10:55 AM
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I should have clarified: I believe all the PAL Star Wars LDs are CAV! That might still be wrong, but it's at least not a completely stupid assertion like how my sentence read before. Thanks for pointing that out, Citizen.

Author: rnranimal
Time: 1-Jun-2005 12:46 AM
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Thanks for the info, I was wondering how Jedi fit on 4 sides.

In most of what I read, it says there's no quality difference between CAV & CLV and I believe in most cases that is probably true. But for some reason, my Pioneer LD-V8000 has smear with all CLV discs. CAV have no smear and a noticably sharper picture (on my player). I don't doubt that CAV & CLV discs carry the same quality picture, but it comes down to how the player handles each format. On my player the DC set wins hands down over the faces set, because of this issue.

Author: Citizen
Time: 1-Jun-2005 2:48 AM
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I noticed on the Blade Runner CAV discs that one of the side changes was in the middle of a scene, when the side flips are removed and the colour balance adjusted so the two halves of the scene match, the picture goes more grainy at the join when the video is first being read from the outer edge and then the inner edge. But watching the DVD I made it's only noticable if you know to look for it and in what scene.

One of my laserdiscs (Deep Red, 1994) the first side is CLV and the 2nd is CAV, sometime I'll capture it in and see if there's any noticable picture quality difference between the sides. Another laserdisc I have only has one side, the other is just white plastic, looks kinda weird.

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: Citizen
Time: 2-Jun-2005 6:08 AM
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I sent off the money for those German THX laserdiscs yesterday by international bank transfer, got a letter today detailing the charges, £56 for the 82 Euros and £20 charge to do the transaction... daylight f**king robbery!!

banks suck
I wish more people would take PayPal, especially in this case because I have a 20% off coupon for an eBay purchase with PayPal until next Tuesday.

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 2-Jun-2005 10:29 AM
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Shipping to Australia can incur "extra charges" as well.

"One of my laserdiscs (Deep Red, 1994) the first side is CLV and the 2nd is CAV"

The Faces set goes from CLV to CAV as well.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Citizen
Time: 2-Jun-2005 6:56 PM
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I know about those extra charges on shipping, only one of my current laserdisc collection is PAL format because it came with the player (Die Hard 2 widescreen) and the other 30 or so are NTSC format I bought from US eBay sellers because they're not available on DVD, international airmail isn't cheap

but all the discs but 1 arrived in perfect condition, the "but 1" arrived with one of the sides cracked in half because the seller did a poor job of packing.

Anyway back to sort-of on topic, I received an email from the German eBay seller a couple of hours ago saying the bank transfer completed already and he shipped the THX set! woohoo! I thought I'd be waiting 10+ days for the bank transfer & posting time, seems like I'll be receiving them very soon

*looks at the lack of harddrive space and contemplates upgrading...*

***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***

Author: rnranimal
Time: 2-Jun-2005 8:22 PM
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Congrats on the German set. That along with english audio from one of the other DC sets should provide the ultimate transfer, if done properly. Would love to have the set myself, but then I'd have to also buy a PAL player. Just can't get myself to do it (yet, maybe for Christmas). My dream transfer I'd like to do is the video from the German set framerate corrected to 24fps and slightly scaled up to NTSC anamorphic resolution and synced up to the english audio digitally captured from the NTSC DC set. I'm not even close, though. I have all the computer hard/software needed, but don't have the German set, a PAL player or even an NTSC player with PCM out to cap the audio. I keep watching the 2004 DVDs trying to get used to them so I can let go of this expensive & time consuming dream, but it has the opposite effect. The more I watch them, the more I cringe and want to do the "ultimate" transfer. I have the DC NTSC set and a Pioneer LD-V8000, which together look great on my 27" TV, but they don't cut it at all on my projector. I don't know that any transfer from the NTSC set could, it just doesn't seem good enough. The PAL set has much more detail and is without the bad jaggies. Not to mention not having to mess with reversing telecine or the 7.5 IRE NTSC black level boost.