Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 40

ImperialFighter said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t know. The redemption feels natural for such a character. Personally, I feel like Kylo Ren is potentially more tragic a figure than Vader (although this gets into a hairy argument about PT portrayal vs. OT portrayal). It’s hard to really say right now, still being quite a bit in the dark in regards to his turn and obviously not knowing where he’ll go from here in TLJ, but it seems kind of rough to just say that he doesn’t deserve redemption just because he killed a character we all love. Obviously people are going to complain rehash if he’s redeemed but that’s a pretty silly and arbitrary way of dismissing a potentially fitting end to his storyline.

Anyway, I have to imagine and hope Han’s reaching out had some impact.

Fair enough DC, but the main reason I want to see Kylo have a different resolution to the one his ‘grandfather’ had in ROTJ…is not just due to the fact that he killed off Han, but mainly because I’d rather he continues to be totally unrepentant about his dark side path, regardless of anyone’s efforts.

While I’d be more likely to bet that he WILL be shown to ‘come good’ by the end of this saga, I’d far prefer to see his storyline defy convention, and end with his character’s ‘retribution’ rather than his ‘redemption’ this time around.

And as far as his dad’s reaching out being able to influence him somewhat, that didn’t work out too well…

…so my push for EPISODE IX: STAR WARS RETRIBUTION starts here! 😉

I don’t know. Retribution just doesn’t feel quite right for me in a Star Wars movie. There was a reason it wasn’t called “Revenge of the Jedi.”

It would make him look weak as hell though.

suspiciouscoffee said:

^No weaker than losing his previous fight against Rey made him look.

No, because there were multiple reasons for why he lost. If someone in 2017 isn’t willing to do some research (or better yet pay attention to the film) then that’s their problem. Not Kylo’s, not JJ’s and not Disney’s.

My hope is that Kylo dies. Redeemed or otherwise, I want him DEAD! I think Lucky has the right idea, assuming Jaina is to Rey as Caedus is to Kylo.

I only want him to die if Chewie gets to kill him.

lovelikewinter said:

There was an old Tales of the Jedi comic where Ulic was stripped of his ability to use the Force after killing his brother. He became a broken man and turned on his master, but finding no real peace. That’s what I want to see happen to Kylo Ren. Lose his ability with the Force and at the end have Rey, Finn and Poe not accept him. Make him a pariah and have him leave with the Falcon to the outer reaches of the galaxy- retaking the name Ben Solo and finally appreciating the family he once had.

FTFY

suspiciouscoffee said:

Lord Haseo said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

^No weaker than losing his previous fight against Rey made him look.

No, because there were multiple reasons for why he lost. If someone in 2017 isn’t willing to do some research (or better yet pay attention to the film) then that’s their problem. Not Kylo’s, not JJ’s and not Disney’s.

Which is my point. I’m not saying Kylo is weak, I’m saying that him being killed would weaken him as little as the previous fight. He lost the fight, and rightfully so. Losing to a fully trained Rey when he doesn’t even want to fight anymore wouldn’t weaken him at all.

Does that make sense? It makes sense in my head but I had trouble thinking how best to type it all out.

I meant it would make him look weak in terms of his conviction. He’s already been established to be wavering in terms of his commitment to the Dark Side of The Force so without a long and drawn out redemption arc it’s going to diminish him as a character.

What exactly caused Jacen to turn back to the Light though? Did his sister say something that promoted his turn? Did he come to some grand realization while dueling her that caused his perspective to change on the matter? If Rey were to do the former it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world but if Kylo gets redeemed I would like for him to realize the depths of his misdeeds over the course of many events and after much internal debates about said events and his overall mental state.

@Lord Haseo, I don’t know if Disney will do something like that, I mean, you have kids watching this. I don’t think they will allow Chewbacca to deliberately kill Kylo Ren for killing Han Solo. As much as I know he really wants too, I don’t see them doing it. I do see Chewie maybe growling at him and pushing him back into a corner and maybe he loses his balance and falls into a deep hole/crevasse/abyss never to be seen again.

That’s the Disney way, not seeking revenge and actually getting to do it. The good guys will look just as bad as the bad guys. You want it to look like an accident, not bloodthirsty revenge. This way, Chewie doesn’t look like a monster. If he’s protecting somebody, then he has to do what he has to do, I guess.

You didn’t see Luke just start chopping up Darth Vader, because he killed Ben Kenobi. He wounded him, and threw down his lightsaber. I don’t know, I just don’t see them doing something like that, but who knows.

Lord Haseo said:

I only want him to die if Chewie gets to kill him.

Damn, now I’m torn between this or Kylo getting a good lightsaber-skewering from someone.

Seeing Chewie throttling him…or full-on limb-ripping him…or getting him with a well-aimed headshot using his bowcaster…would make for an equally satisfying end to him for me too! 😉

(but sadly, I fear CarboniteSolo is right in his assessment)

SilverWook said:

Do Wookiees seek revenge? (Excepting the Wooks gone bad in the EU past and present.) That’s a good question. Chewie would look nasty just killing Kylo in cold blood. I can’t see him doing it unless Kylo is about to kill someone, and it’s the only way to save them.

It’s equally possible Kylo turns away from the dark side long enough to do something good, but dies in the process. Like Grandfather, like Grandson. Think about it, won’t you? 😉

I have thought about it Silverwook, and I’ve no doubt Kylo’s character WILL end up being given the kind of conclusion you describe…it’s just I’d rather he didn’t get the same kind of end as Vader did, as I’ve had my fill of this whole ‘mirroring’ thing, and would prefer something more unexpected. 😉

I’d happily settle for Chewie taking out Kylo to save someone however, and another way would be for him to be piloting the Falcon when he does - I can just hear him ‘laughing it up’ afterwards…

NeverarGreat said:

We know that Kylo is obsessed with the Sith of the past, primarily his grandfather. However, since Snoke appears more interested in Rey than Kylo at the end of TFA, perhaps Kylo will eventually find himself cast aside by Snoke or himself become disillusioned when he discovers that Snoke isn’t a Sith. If this is the case, he could devote his energy to uncovering the secrets of the first Sith, and his journey would be a dark parallel to Luke’s in wanting to find the first Jedi temple. They, along with Rey, would meet at the place where the Jedi and Sith broke into two factions, and the three would have an explosive confrontation, eventually culminating in an apotheosis where they reconcile their differences and turn to confront Snoke.

I could see this. They’re definitely setting up some sort of scenario in which Snoke gets what he wants from Kylo and then crushes him.

People are also forgetting the Knights of Ren. The truth is there’s still a lot yet to be revealed and many ways things could go.

CarboniteSolo said:

@Lord Haseo, I don’t know if Disney will do something like that, I mean, you have kids watching this. I don’t think they will allow Chewbacca to deliberately kill Kylo Ren for killing Han Solo. As much as I know he really wants too, I don’t see them doing it. I do see Chewie maybe growling at him and pushing him back into a corner and maybe he loses his balance and falls into a deep hole/crevasse/abyss never to be seen again.

LOL

That’s the Disney way, not seeking revenge and actually getting to do it. The good guys will look just as bad as the bad guys. You want it to look like an accident, not bloodthirsty revenge. This way, Chewie doesn’t look like a monster. If he’s protecting somebody, then he has to do what he has to do, I guess.

I’m thinking the Disney way needs some revisions. I also don’t think people would mind if Chewie ripped off Kylo’s arm and bludgeoned him to death with it. If there ever was a applaud worthy moment that would be it.

You didn’t see Luke just start chopping up Darth Vader, because he killed Ben Kenobi. He wounded him, and threw down his lightsaber. I don’t know, I just don’t see them doing something like that, but who knows.

That’s a bad example because Palpatine interrupted them so we don’t know what Luke would have done if they were alone.

EDIT:

Also a being that rips people’s arms out of their sockets when he loses would definitely definitely seek out and murder the man who killed his best friend.

CarboniteSolo said:

@Lord Haseo, I don’t know if Disney will do something like that, I mean, you have kids watching this.

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Development (change of character) does not make characters good or well written. TFA characters may get more development throughout the film but they are boring or unoriginal and the development is bad or unoriginal. While in R1 the characters may not change much (do no get much development) but at least they are complex and interesting.

Elaborate please. Beyond Cassian how are the characters complex? You say these things but you never really go into detail.

Lord Haseo said:

I think you should stop finding lame false explanations about R1 and TFA in order to feel better. You should face the fact that R1 is simply good and TFA is crap. Those of us who like R1 and dislike TFA simply accept this truth.

I like Rogue One but it’s definitely more entertaining than well written. I personally can’t say the same for TFA.

TFA is neither well written nor entertaining.

Your opinion.

EDIT:

Tobar said:

Mocata said:

TFA still has the stupid map and the stupider R2D2 activation moment, but it averages out so that both become simply mediocre.

Don’t forget seeing the destruction of a planet from an entirely different star system.

TFA was far worse with its offenses.

I think we can all agree Starkiller Base is the worst thing to come out of these films.

The worst thing to come out of these films, is these films. They are both defeating their own objective in trying to please ‘fans’ they are in fact doing the opposite. If we are going to have new films then let’s see something new that keeps the codes and conventions of star wars. Not some half arsed rehash with some old characters thrown in for good measure or some rushed edit, half finished film.

If Rey is in fact ‘The last Jedi’ which I fear will be her fate…then this truly is a massive regurgitation of the OT.

Kylo ren is no vader! I hope they kill him off quick, as with most of the other cast hahah. If there is a “Rey, I am your father” moment. If Luke is killed by Ren and if Rey is a Jedi how can anyone say that this is not a ‘rehash’.

So why even waste time in this thread?

TV’s Frink said:

So why even waste time in this thread?

To annoy you, of course.

Your “input” is, as always, completely unwelcome.