'97 vs. '04 (and '11) - Your preference? — Page 5

You know what? I’m going to go out on a limb and say 2004, because of the prequelisms. The argument that the 1997 cut is superior because it doesn’t have the PT references doesn’t really work for me, because if you’re trying to ignore the PT, you should just watch the OUT, because they’re just better movies. The only thing the SE can really claim to bring to the table is smoother visual continuity with the subsequent installments of the saga, and in that regard the 1997 version is kind of obsolete.

JawsTDS said:

joefavs said:

You know what? I’m going to go out on a limb and say 2004, because of the prequelisms. The argument that the 1997 cut is superior because it doesn’t have the PT references doesn’t really work for me, because if you’re trying to ignore the PT, you should just watch the OUT, because they’re just better movies. The only thing the SE can really claim to bring to the table is smoother visual continuity with the subsequent installments of the saga, and in that regard the 1997 version is kind of obsolete.

This is a refreshing read. Great points!

The 04 is probably the most justifiable in the sense that it has both updated effects and attempts to tie into the PT. I also like the concept of the 97 (using modern technology to “finish” a film that the creator deemed incomplete), but that leaves the 2011 versions. These should have been simply used as a chance to fix the issues with the 04, but instead were changes for the sake of changes.

Has to be the '97 editions for me.

All of the SE’s have some ridiculous alterations of course, but the reasons I keep going back to '97 are that

• the colour grading is at least on par with an actual restoration, and not a quick, botched effort to modernise the films. This is a biggie for me, as I recall that when the SE was first released, it truly was the best the films had ever looked and thus I’m sentimental towards the ‘look’,

• R2-D2 does not miraculously hide behind a large rock,

• the lightsabers are fine,

• fewer ‘prequalisations’; Boba Fett has his original voice, NO HAYDEN at the end of RoTJ,

• Vader doesn’t yell “NooOoOoOooOooo!”

• Vader has eyebrows, aha…

I know a couple different folks were working on 2011 regrades a few months ago, but I haven’t heard anything new in a while.

One thing for me that stands out about the SEs - in fact really the only thing that bothers me (even though Jabba in Episode IV was completely unnecessary and repeated about 80% of the Greedo scene’s dialogue) is the Jedi Rocks in RotJ. Is it just me or have they toned it down over the various DVD and BD changes? I seem to remember when I saw it in theatres that the aliens were gyrating a gesticulating more, and maybe I just played it up in my mind as worse than it actually was but when I last saw it on Blu-ray and again as part of the marathon leading up to Episode VII it didn’t seem as…out there. It’s still bad and cringeworthy, mind you.

97SE for nostalgia reasons. We watched those VHS tapes a whole bunch.

The one issue I have with them is missed opportunities to fix lightsabers in some of the Vader/Kenobi duel shots.

That’s the ONE issue??

Much Empire Emperor talk going on which is good. Probably my biggest problem with any of the changes over the years. Although - it appears some people don’t get why we need the original cuts at all…

Density said:

Wazzles said:
I hate the 04/11 emperor

I really don’t understand this. The old Emperor was just awful, it was the worst part of ESB and it stuck out like a sore thumb when viewed with the rest of the series. Literally the only possible reason I can imagine for preferring the chimpanzee-eyed old woman over Ian Fucking McDiarmid is nostalgia. That’s it. I mean seriously, ask yourself: If it was the other way around, would you still prefer the chimp Emperor? Hell no, you’d think it was among the most outrageous of all SE changes. Let’s not kid ourselves. If that was the only change George made, that would have been just fine with me.

The original is clearly superior in this scene. His appearance is more ghostly and sinister. The dialogue and delivery shows how the Emperor has Vader on strings, as if he’s controlling him through his speech. It’s completely effective and very out of the blue considering how commanding Vader was up to that point.

It’s such an important scene because it’s the first moment that takes you out of the narrative drive of the movie, explaining Vader’s motivation and highlighting what’s at stake in just a few lines.

Not to take away from Ian McDiarmid’s work in Jedi, deliciously wicked as it was, I sometimes find his emperor a little too obviously evil in the overall context of where the story was coming from. It would have been rather interesting to see the final showdown as more a battle of wits, illusion and manipulation with a slightly charming, non-cackling Emperor. Ironically, he gets closer to this in the prequels before he gets electrifried (in an otherwise painfully dull trilogy).

Nobody ever thought it was a problem that the two appearances didn’t match up before they changed it - and so it went for every other change. Completely unnecessary and often altered the meaning of a scene - as if Lucas never really understood what any of the subtext was i.e. Luke screaming after he chooses his own sacrifice.

All that being said, aside from Luke’s scream, I can’t think of anything the DVDs or Blurays put right, so the 97s win by default. Too many other unforgivable additions to the editions!

GigoloJoe said:

Not to take away from Ian McDiarmid’s work in Jedi, deliciously wicked as it was, I sometimes find his emperor a little too obviously evil in the overall context of where the story was coming from. It would have been rather interesting to see the final showdown as more a battle of wits, illusion and manipulation with a slightly charming, non-cackling Emperor. Ironically, he gets closer to this in the prequels before he gets electrifried (in an otherwise painfully dull trilogy).

+1

There’s a legitamate argument to be made that the 97 version is the worst of the bunch. I’d say the majority of the bad changes were there from the start. Dozens of garbage changes that shit all over the films. The fact that someone could say not fixing a couple lightsaber shots is the ONE issue with the 97 SE is just so ridiculous as to be totally incomprehensible, honestly.

Even if we’re talking which is the least bad counting old changes ported over, I don’t know. I kind of feel like in some ways it’s all or nothing with the SEs. Like if you’re going to have extra added garbage and CGI to better match the PT, better go all the way with it. So I’d say 04 because (for better or for worse) there’s at least a point to it, with an attempt to link the films with the PT better, rather than the 97 SE which is just plain vandalism without a purpose. 11 gets pluses for fixing fucked up lightsabers but minuses for “no’s” and other necessary antics.

JEDIT: Just realized joefavs made the exact same argument but put it much better than me a few months ago…

joefavs said:

You know what? I’m going to go out on a limb and say 2004, because of the prequelisms. The argument that the 1997 cut is superior because it doesn’t have the PT references doesn’t really work for me, because if you’re trying to ignore the PT, you should just watch the OUT, because they’re just better movies. The only thing the SE can really claim to bring to the table is smoother visual continuity with the subsequent installments of the saga, and in that regard the 1997 version is kind of obsolete.

JawsTDS said:

Can anyone specify which edition has the superior sound mix – '97 or 2011? Not sure if there is that much of a difference at all, but I recall hearing great things about the 97 DTS mix.

In my opinion, the 1997 mix is the best overall for star wars/anh. Aside from content changes it sounds better than the original mixes by a long shot. The music actually sounds full and lush, in the original mixes the music sounded weak and muffled and sort of tinny. The sound effects are powerful too. Also it doesn’t have the problem that the 04 and onward mixes having with the dialogue quality changing with every other line. I seriously can’t believe they let that go it sounded horrible especially since it wasn’t necessary as the previous mixes didn’t have it.

For Empire, 2011 is best. For Jedi, 2004 is best because it’s basically 2011 sans vaders no.

What’s funny is this place is crawling with people who want to preserve the '97, not because of the historical importance, but because they actually want to watch it. Same thing with TPM theatrical.

What is wrong with people?