I agree about the sideways wipe btw. It didn’t really seem to fit in that transition.
…and then jumping to an older topic: has there been any changes / developments in the Kylo mask continuity dilemma? Does it require some super FX expert rotoscoping to succeed?
It’s acceptable at present, and it would take what seems like an inordinate amount of work to ask someone to improve upon it.
As it is, the second scene with Snoke involves several shots from the first scene which shows Kylo in his mask. During the couple shots we see him from the front, his face has been pasted over the mask. But, the remaining shots show his hood rather than his hair. We also see Snoke sit down without seeing him ever stand up. Once I get my TFA stuff back out and on the metaphorical workbench, I’ll see if I can’t fix this through editing. (Although, if I could have already, I’m sure I would have; can’t remember exactly.)
The Tie fighter Apocalypse Now shot is cool and beautiful; hope you’ll find a place to keep it. I don’t have the movie file on my current computer but I’ll try to provide some help where it can be placed later (during Jaku attack ? just before the march of the resistance ?). Good call to remove “those beasts”, it works better. Like Episodes I-II-III it’s insane how even the slightest trims can improve a scene.
I also must say I love the above Rathrar edit, which also removes the silly bits of Ford performance with Chewie’s blaster.
Once again: Very well done.
I would remove the wipe though since usually those are used to go to a completely different location or to show that a larger amount of time has passed. And none of that is the case here. Additionally it didn’t look right to me.
Thank you! You’re right about the wipe, I’ll remove it. I was probably too caught up in the idea of making a cool wipe, haha.
The only other thing: The “They’re here.” shot seems a little short to me. There’s probably nothing that can be done about it but I wanted to let you know.
Yeah, it’s good that you mention any issues but it ends where it ends, so…
And while it’s a shame that the TIE sunset shot had to go I didn’t miss it at all when watching your little edit and it didn’t really fit in this scene anyway.
Even JJ acknowledges that the shot makes no sense lighting-wise and is just there because it’s so cool. And in this edit it’s even more unnecessary since the approaching TIEs have already been shown a lot.
Oh well, I can totally live with the current Snoke scene. The amount of work and precision it would take… probably wouldn’t even be worth it in the end.
It’s a bit funny that my imagination can accept such bending visually but when a character says something that is a bit off, then it’s a huge problem for my mind. 😄
Did a very quick super rough (nothing but music) mockup of the First Order arriving to show a different piece that could accompany it.
https://vimeo.com/199195154
pw: tfa
Did a very quick super rough (nothing but music) mockup of the First Order arriving to show a different piece that could accompany it.
https://vimeo.com/199195154
pw: tfa
I’m not sure about the music, it works but I’m not sure it’s better. However, this order of events is different from the one I’m using, and similar to a concept Hal was working on. If Rey seeing the TIEs is cut together with Finn seeing the TIEs like that the problem is gone anyway because the repeating of the music I used for the TIE attack occurs when Rey spots them later. I like this order more, because it places the slow bits of Rey in the forest before we see the attack rather than after which makes the pacing a lot nicer. If you don’t mind I’ll try this in my edit and see what happens with the music.
Go for it. In the theatrical cut it made sense to have the down beat in between the Starkiller strike and the TIE fighter attack, but not here.
And yeah, it’s funny because adding that music as I did removes the bits of “Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle” that you’re reusing. I’m sure there’s got to be a way to figure this out without having to reuse any music at all. I do like the solution of using “I Can Fly Anything,” especially as it’s the alternate from the soundtrack.
Go for it. In the theatrical cut it made sense to have the down beat in between the Starkiller strike and the TIE fighter attack, but not here.
That’s a damn good point.
Did a very quick super rough (nothing but music) mockup of the First Order arriving to show a different piece that could accompany it.
https://vimeo.com/199195154
pw: tfa
wow i really like this. good stuff
Did a very quick super rough (nothing but music) mockup of the First Order arriving to show a different piece that could accompany it.
https://vimeo.com/199195154
pw: tfa
I absolutely love this music. And the intercutting works well.
Things are moving forward! Here’s a new clip with all the good bits, from Rey leaving the castle and until her return.
Change list:
• Intercutting à la DominicCobb (new)
• Updated score without repeating parts (new)
• Better sound mix (new)
• “They’ve found us”
• No sunset TIEs
• My unnecessary wipe removed (new)
• Finn takes the lightsaber from Maz quicker
• “Those beasts” cut, “they’re here” left in
Oh, that’s incredible. You’re a wonderful group. After I put out V1, I sat at my computer hoping, "Won’t someone please make this better?"
And, Sir Ridley, though it’s a cliche comment at this point, “we will watch your career with great interest.”
Thank you! I might be able to make it sound better, but I would need a better audio clip of Boyega saying something similar (the “ound” sound for “found”, especially). I found a clip where he said something about “five pound” that I used for this, but it was not ideal, so if anyone can find a better audio source I’d be happy.
It might also work better with a different musical cue, as some suggested. Any ideas about a part of the score which could be used here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zcfN1RMDU
2:19 - pounds
12:21 - sounds
29:08 - found
all in his english accent but might work for the redub.
Things are moving forward! Here’s a new clip with all the good bits, from Rey leaving the castle and until her return.
Change list:
• Intercutting à la DominicCobb (new)
• Updated score without repeating parts (new)
• Better sound mix (new)
• “They’ve found us”
• No sunset TIEs
• My unnecessary wipe removed (new)
• Finn takes the lightsaber from Maz quicker
• “Those beasts” cut, “they’re here” left in
Wow! Well done!
Well the edit doesn’t remove the main reason Finn sticks around which is that he cares about Rey and is worried with her missing that the FO has captured her. Him and Han and Chewie might not bolt for the Falcon when the whole reason they’re there is to get BB-8 safely to the Resistance (and he’s currently missing with Rey). Maz I guess would be making sure that the lightsaber makes it out of the castle in tact (and eventually to Rey). As for everyone else I think we have to assume they scramble off screen (as in the theatrical).
Very well, I can mostly buy this. I am still concerned with the rapidly closing assault force however, which is clearly on the attack.
Watching Restructured V1 again, I think I might have a solution to this whole thing without the need for the dramatic cuts that we have all been suggesting:
1: Finn sees the distant Finalizer like in the edit, but instead of TIEs and landing crafts he sees only Kylo’s shuttle (perhaps with two flanking TIE fighters) descending from the clouds.
2: Han and extras see the ships, and assume that the First Order will be negotiating for the droid, with the threat of the Finalizer so nobody attempts an escape. Finn says ‘they’ve found us’ as suggested, and assuming that they have some time, Han and Company go to find Maz (and hopefully Rey).
3: Rey talks to BB8 then notices the TIEs and landing craft overhead, and only then does the audience realize with her that the castle will be attacked. Arriving at the battle, she sees Kylo’s shuttle touch down in time with the surprise attack.
In short, everything in the scene can go as presented in V1, except that the cloud of TIEs and landing craft is now just Kylo’s shuttle.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Things are moving forward! Here’s a new clip with all the good bits, from Rey leaving the castle and until her return.
Change list:
• Intercutting à la DominicCobb (new)
• Updated score without repeating parts (new)
• Better sound mix (new)
• “They’ve found us”
• No sunset TIEs
• My unnecessary wipe removed (new)
• Finn takes the lightsaber from Maz quicker
• “Those beasts” cut, “they’re here” left in
I have to admit that I don’t like the new intercutting. For me the scene worked better with the original cut. Everything else you did is fantastic though.
@NeverarGreat:
This could work. It would however create some continuity problems since Kylo’s shuttle arrives after the TIEs so it wouldn’t make sense to be the first ship to leave the Finalizer.
Also I don’t see the problems with the current version: Finn sees TIEs and runs back to find Rey (and the others). When he arrives at the castle Han and the other patrons just noticed the TIEs as well. The latter didn’t expect such an attack at all so their shock makes them slow to react but they are starting to realize that they have to flee. Han, Finn and Chewie on the other hand return to the castle to find Rey but instead they only find Maz who gives them the lightsaber.
Things are moving forward! Here’s a new clip with all the good bits, from Rey leaving the castle and until her return.
Change list:
• Intercutting à la DominicCobb (new)
• Updated score without repeating parts (new)
• Better sound mix (new)
• “They’ve found us”
• No sunset TIEs
• My unnecessary wipe removed (new)
• Finn takes the lightsaber from Maz quicker
• “Those beasts” cut, “they’re here” left inI have to admit that I don’t like the new intercutting. For me the scene worked better with the original cut. Everything else you did is fantastic though.
@NeverarGreat:
This could work. It would however create some continuity problems since Kylo’s shuttle arrives after the TIEs so it wouldn’t make sense to be the first ship to leave the Finalizer.
Also I don’t see the problems with the current version: Finn sees TIEs and runs back to find Rey (and the others). When he arrives at the castle Han and the other patrons just noticed the TIEs as well. The latter didn’t expect such an attack at all so their shock makes them slow to react but they are starting to realize that they have to flee. Han, Finn and Chewie on the other hand return to the castle to find Rey but instead they only find Maz who gives them the lightsaber.
That’s the thing though: Kylo’s shuttle ISN’T the first ship to leave the Finalizer, it is implied that the other ships were launched first and approached stealthily from a different direction while the shuttle approaches under the auspices of peaceful negotiation. The TIEs would still arrive first and wreak havoc as in the final film.
With this idea, I’m just reconciling the fact that the TIE fighters and landing craft seem to approach the castle low and from over the forest with the fact that in this edit, the Finalizer is almost directly overhead or at least over the lake somewhere. In every version of this edit, there is a slight continuity error because of these facts, which this idea solves.
And as I said, the current version doesn’t have any outstanding problems (apart from Finn’s line change which I assume will be in version 2), however with this idea there is no need for the patrons to flee at all, since the shuttle flanked by two tie fighters would not be seen as a hostile action.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
That’s the thing though: Kylo’s shuttle ISN’T the first ship to leave the Finalizer, it is implied that the other ships were launched first and approached stealthily from a different direction while the shuttle approaches under the auspices of peaceful negotiation. The TIEs would still arrive first and wreak havoc as in the final film.
With this idea, I’m just reconciling the fact that the TIE fighters and landing craft seem to approach the castle low and from over the forest with the fact that in this edit, the Finalizer is almost directly overhead or at least over the lake somewhere. In every version of this edit, there is a slight continuity error because of these facts, which this idea solves.
And as I said, the current version doesn’t have any outstanding problems (apart from Finn’s line change which I assume will be in version 2), however with this idea there is no need for the patrons to flee at all, since the shuttle flanked by two tie fighters would not be seen as a hostile action.
Okay, I get it now. That version would definetly need the original cut order we had but if someone could make the effects for it I’d definetly be interested in seeing it. Still not sure if it’d work better but trying won’t hurt 😃
Yeah, I feel like this might work better than the recut scene simply because it conforms to people’s memories of the scene (How’s that for an about face?). When I showed it to my friends, the cuts were so subtle that they didn’t even realize at first that the Hosnian Destruction had been removed. the more that this scene is changed, the greater the chance that people will notice and be removed from the flow of the film, simply because it’s different than the theatrical presentation.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I concur about the original cut order.
I like how the new cut order makes the attack more fast paced, what would you say is your main issues with how things unfold now?
I agree that how Finn sees the ships (moving down) compared to how Rey sees them (moving straight ahead above the treetops) might be a continuity issue. Perhaps NeverarGreat could make a mock up of the idea with Kylo’s shuttle?
I don’t really agree about the idea of “conforming to peoples memories”, the main goal should be to make a cut that works in it’s own right. If it’s good it’s good, and if it’s different then so be it.
Oh, that’s incredible. You’re a wonderful group. After I put out V1, I sat at my computer hoping, "Won’t someone please make this better?"
And, Sir Ridley, though it’s a cliche comment at this point, “we will watch your career with great interest.”
Haha, thank you! I’m glad I finally joined, it’s much easier to create nice things when everyone shares their opinions and skills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zcfN1RMDU
2:19 - pounds
12:21 - sounds
29:08 - foundall in his english accent but might work for the redub.
Great! 😃 I will look into this.
I like how the new cut order makes the attack more fast paced, what would you say is your main issues with how things unfold now?
I agree that how Finn sees the ships (moving down) compared to how Rey sees them (moving straight ahead above the treetops) might be a continuity issue. Perhaps NeverarGreat could make a mock up of the idea with Kylo’s shuttle?
For me it’s actually too fast. The second part of the Rey scene feels too short and generally the Rey scene shouldn’t be chopped apart at this point I think.
I prefer to give Han and Finn some time to reach Maz and go to the cellar where in this new cut the TIEs are there pretty much instantly after they first spot them.
And I wouldn’t call that a continuity error since (in the original cut at least) Finn sees the TIEs at a great distance making there descent to the planet’s surface. The next time we see them is about a minute later when they are making there attack run. They can easily reach the surface some hundred meters away from the castle and then attack from there.
Sir Ridley said:
Perhaps NeverarGreat could make a mock up of the idea with Kylo’s shuttle?
All right I’ll give it a try…
😉
I don’t mean to disparage your edits by the way, I think they are quite effective. However, I came to realize that your edits and my previous ideas would probably not be in the spirit of the project - changing as little as possible to facilitate the moved Starkiller firing.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I’d be for a version without the recut if the music can still be changed and not repeated. I do agree that the ships seem to be very far out and then are right on top of Rey pretty quickly in this edit.