Tyrphanax said:
but the difference is that Rogue One and Civil War will still be decent movies.No, they won’t be. One day you’ll be embarrassed you felt this way.
Please stop, okay? Film enjoyment is subjective. I enjoyed both of those movies, and will continue to enjoy them. I’m sorry that they weren’t Citizen Kane and that you didn’t like them, but I don’t need reminding that you didn’t like them and that you think I’m an idiot for liking them every time they come up. Thanks.
Oh, it isn’t of course. There is a reason we have effects-driven blockbusters today and its in large part thanks to George Lucas.
My point is more that PT gets its rightful bad rap from being just plain bad films moreso than effects in my mind, and I think most here would agree on that point (I would still argue that there is an over-reliance on CGI in the PT, moreso than the Sequel Trilogy or most of the Marvel movies, or at least that it’s used more judiciously, or at least that it’s more forgivable because the movies are better, but that could all be disputed).
The effects used in the PT are very dated at this point (when at the time of release they were very impressive), and I imagine it’ll be the same looking back on Rogue One or Captain America: Civil War seventeen years from now (I remember when the Nintendo 64 looked “lifelike” to me), but the difference is that Rogue One and Civil War will still be decent movies. Going back to the PT today is not only seeing dated CGI, but compounding that on top of the atrocious writing and acting.
I don’t disagree at all for the most part on the technical aspects of the films, I was more referring to the common jab of the prequels being bad films because CGI, without any elaboration. I’m not saying that’s the case here obviously, it was more of a general statement.
Sure, I get that. No harm, no foul. For what it’s worth, I feel like in the day of 3D printing and being at the point of technology where we can translate CGI into physical props, it would be really interesting to see a Star Wars film with the massive Disney/LFL budget behind it using totally physical props again. I remember first seeing the trailers for Rogue One and trying to figure out if that Star Destroyer was a prop or not, though.
Could you elaborate on why you think Rogue One is a decent film, yet Revenge of the Sith isn’t?
Despite ROTS being my favourite Star Wars film I’m not ignorant to its objective flaws, and taking a step back R1 and ROTS have similar issues with effects, characters, plot structure, etc.
Sure, and I think it’s very simple reason (for me at least).
I agree that Rogue One doesn’t have the most amazingly-developed characters in the saga, no argument there. But the difference between Rogue One and Revenge of the Sith for me is that Rogue One isn’t about the characters as much as it is about the state of the galaxy and how that state affects the people living in it. It adds to the universe we saw in Star Wars in a way that doesn’t shrink it or step on many toes (in my view). It’s a “war movie lite” that stands outside the main saga (though it is connected), and I’ve said it a lot but it’s more of a Black Hawk Down telling of events that happened (in that it’s more about the event than the people involved) than it is Saving Private Ryan (which is about characters with the war as a backdrop). More importantly, I had fun during the movie. It’s hard to stay engaged for two hours and fifteen minutes sitting in a seat (even the Marvel movies can lose me there), but I was locked into Rogue One the whole time, both times I’ve seen it so far. These explanations may not work for some, but they were my immediate thoughts leaving the theater the first time.
Revenge of the Sith falls flat for me against this same metric because it depends so much on the flat acting and bad writing (character-, acting-, and story-wise) of the previous two films. I have said many times here and elsewhere that the core concepts and story of the Prequel Trilogy are fantastic. The rise of the Empire, the seduction of Anakin Skywalker by the Dark Side, the birth of Darth Vader, the purge of the Jedi and the collapse of the Old Republic are all amazing concepts. Stuff I wanted to see since I heard Ben Kenobi relate the story of Luke’s father to him on Tatooine and then Endor. But Lucas managed to find so many ways to just ruin those amazing concepts in the most disappointing and thorough ways, not to mention wring some of the worst performances out of otherwise-decent (or great) actors. Where Rogue One was about an event and the people involved, Revenge of the Sith is about characters and their deep impact on the galaxy. The problem is that all these characters are so poorly-written and acted that I don’t care about them or what happens to them at all. I should, because they’re the point of the movie, they’re doing things I always wanted to see, but I just do not. I grew up while the PT was being released, but I never had the same excitement or drive towards them as I did with the OT. I got the Special Editions on VHS in 1997 (I was 8) and watched them weekly. When the PT came out, I think I might have had TPM on VHS but that was it. It was more an obligation to see them than it was that I was excited about seeing what happened next.
I really enjoyed Rogue One but the film is far from being without faults, and I honestly have no doubt that had the film come out in the early 2000s it would be lumped in with those “crap prequel films.” A lot of the complaints levelled at the prequels are glaringly apparent in R1, so why is it excused?
The most hypocritical response I’ve seen is the same people calling the ROTS space battle a “pointless video game cut-scene”, but the Rogue One space battle is brilliant… Why? It has the same plot significance as ROTS and almost the entire thing was created on a computer.
It seems more and more apparent among fans that everything Star Wars is perfectly fine as long as it’s attached to the hip of the OT, any deviation and it’s automatically a huge pile of crap.
I can’t speak so much to this. Rogue One has its faults but it just feels better and was more enjoyable for me. Also, if it had come out in the 2000s, Lucas would have written and produced and directed it and it would have been a mess like the PT, haha. There are just different feels to the two films, and Rogue One feels like Star Wars to me, whereas the Prequels just… don’t so much.
Like I said before, the effects for the PT were cutting-edge at the time, so it’s not so much that as it is the reliance on it. In TPM you had a lot more real sets and practical effects. Those were all nice. But, as time went on, with AOTC and ROTS they just kept on pushing and pushing the boundaries to the point where Obi-Wan’s scenes on Utapau are Ewan McGregor on a greenscreen the entire time interacting with mostly characters that are either not there at all or a guy in a green bodysuit. Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting on Mustafar is the same thing. At least with Rogue One we had a lot of this and this, we had a lot of this and this too, but having the first thing makes the second thing look more believable. When you have a lot of this and this it makes this and this look less believable (especially when you pile a ton of post-production CGI on it).
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
You mean like:
Tarkin: “You may fire when ready.” CHECK
Darth Vader choking an Imperial Officer together with a sarcastic verdict. CHECK
But Darth Vader does not utter any lines from the previous films in that scene as far as I can tell.
You mean like:
Tarkin: “You may fire when ready.” CHECK
Darth Vader choking an Imperial Officer together with a sarcastic verdict. CHECKBut Darth Vader does not utter any lines from the previous films in that scene as far as I can tell.
I think that was in response to “Things from the old films being shown for a second or so for no other reason then to remind us that the movie takes place in the same universe as the OT and to get the ‘‘hey I remember that’’ reaction from the audience.Check”
I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say TFA reuses dialogue from the OT.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say TFA reuses dialogue from the OT.
referring to the millennium Falcon as ‘‘that hunk of junk’’ for exempel.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say TFA reuses dialogue from the OT.
referring to the millennium Falcon as ‘‘that hunk of junk’’ for exempel.
SW: "What a piece of junk."
ESB: "She’s the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy."
TFA: “That one’s garbage.”
Sorry if I don’t see the issue.
Another example of someone apparently seeing a different movie than most of us.
I like the PT. I consider them more than watchable, and I get a lot of entertainment out of them. No, they’re not good, far from it, but I can still put one on and be transported to another galaxy for a couple of hours. I am grateful to all the extra Star Wars material they gave us as well.
Also, when I watched the PT when I was younger, it never occured to me that they had all these new concepts not seen in the OT. When I first watched Attack of the Clones, I was like of course Yoda had a lightsaber, of course all the Jedi have blue and green lightsabers, of course Dooku can have force lightening. I never realised that this was the first movie showcasing these things. I remember being surprised later on when I realised that Yoda never did, nor mentioned having a lightsaber in the OT, or that it was thought that force lightening was a power only the Emperor had.
Not enough people read the EU.
Yoda having a lightsaber completely shat on the OT Yoda character, which is yet another example of why the PT was so terrible. No one should grow up thinking Yoda with a lightsaber is normal.
Kellythatsit said:
I really can’t believe that people are defending the prequels as decent watchable movies on this thread.
It’s as if people have opinions that are different than yours. Woah!
“That said, there is nothing wrong with mocking prequel lovers and belittling their bad taste.” - Alderaan, 2017
MGGA (Make GOUT Great Again):
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-GOUT-Preservation-and-Restoration/id/55707
That Yoda lightsaber scene was the exact moment I turned on Lucas and Star Wars. First time I ever thought to walk out of a movie theater. Watched the OT on VHS one last time the next week, saw Episode III one time in the theater a few years later, and didn’t watch or follow anything Star Wars related except this website until the last few years.
That Yoda lightsaber scene was the exact moment I turned on Lucas and Star Wars. First time I ever thought to walk out of a movie theater. Watched the OT on VHS one last time the next week, saw Episode III one time in the theater a few years later, and didn’t watch or follow anything Star Wars related except this website until the last few years.
Quick, post something nasty about DisneyWars. All this agreeing with you is getting very confusing for me.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say TFA reuses dialogue from the OT.
referring to the millennium Falcon as ‘‘that hunk of junk’’ for exempel.
Isn’t that called a running joke?
What I think people seem to have trouble getting their head around is that TFA and R1 are largely getting the Star Wars ball rolling again. After the bad taste of the prequels, Lucasfim figured that people needed to be reminded of what made Star Wars great. New stories with interesting characters we actually give a stuff about, and give a stuff about each other. It also needs to walk that fine line between making it feel like a Star Wars movie used to feel and blatant fan service. Sometimes they got it right sometimes they got it wrong. The largely positive reaction to the films however, suggests that it was more the former than the latter. Critics will still use this as ammunition and cite any reference to the OT as fan service. But I contend if it were all about fan service there are a lot of things Lucasfilm could have included to get the fans drooling in their seats.
I really think that people are going over the top with this Disney = corporation = bad bs. Yes they are about making money but to do that they have to make entertaining movies. Kathleen Kennedy has a massive say in how these movies are put together. You know, the producer of such poorly received movies as Raiders of the Lost Ark, ET, Schindler’s List, Jurassic Park… She is helming Lucasfilm and is a highly respected filmmaker in her own right. While she ultimately answers to the Disney executive, her thoughts, opinions, and recommendations are highly regarded. There’s no way someone like Kennedy would still be there if they weren’t.
Kellythatsit said:
I really can’t believe that people are defending the prequels as decent watchable movies on this thread.It’s as if people have opinions that are different than yours. Woah!
I know! What’s that all about? Don’t people realise that I rule?
Disney seems to treat Lucasfilm, Marvel and Pixar like this: “Make money and we will let you get on with it.” So far TFA and Rogue One have been very successful in doing so with the box office and merchandise sales. Kennedy will be allowed to do as she sees fit as long as she doesn’t oversee a Tomorrowland-size bomb.
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
People talk as if Disney’s purchase of Lucasfilm is some kind of risk. That they have to keep a constant tab on things to make sure they’ll break even. It’s been demonstrated pretty resoundingly that a Star Wars movie is money in the bank. Even the worst of them made a squillion dollars.
Why would Disney do anything but let lucasfilm make movies the way they want to make them?
Do you really think any of the Disney execs are worried they’re not going to see their money back?
RLM also glossed over most of TFA’s most controversial faults and ignored things they complained about endlessly in their Ep. I - III reviews, so I don’t really hold what they have to say in high regard.
Yep… but they are funny.
(and I love that now they don’t like the second Disney Wars - and are less and less praising TFA - almost everybody here goes “they can go to hell these RLM guys, they don’t know jack about SW” 😃)
I can only think of about 3 people here who now bash RLM because they don’t like the new Star Wars. That’s hardly everybody here.
I liked R1 very much and I still love RLM.
There are a couple people here who seem to worship TFA on a TFN level though.
I absolutely adore RLM despite the fact that I really disagree with them on Rogue One. I find their entire basis for hating the movie completely bogus. But I still love watching their videos constantly. They’re genuinely funny people who make good content, and I happen to disagree with them a lot on a certain movie. It’s called being ok with other people disliking something you like. Some people just choose to automatically respond to such opinions with hate and ignorance.
Kellythatsit said:
I really can’t believe that people are defending the prequels as decent watchable movies on this thread.It’s as if people have opinions that are different than yours. Woah!
Thank god someone reminded him this.
Hands down, my biggest issue with our forum is how much people get disrespected for not agreeing with a certain opinion. If someone hates Rogue One, they get bashed. I loved it, but don’t give a crap if someone else hates it. I discuss it with them to understand why they disliked it, which results in a civil and respectful discussion.
And the hate that prequel lovers get is ridiculous. I think episodes 1 and 2 are god awful films that will make most humans cringe every other scene. But I have no issue with someone liking or loving them. I just hope we can all quit the bashing of the people who like the new Disney movies and quit with the bashing of prequel lovers. We should create a forum where everyone’s opinion is respected and not throw a hissy fit whenever someone disagrees with you.
Sorry for the rant but I’m fed up with seeing this sort of behavior in so many threads.
I haven’t seen the prequels in almost a decade. I don’t plan on watching them ever again. Do I hate them? No, but I don’t find any real entertainment in them.
The Person in Question
Yoda having a lightsaber completely shat on the OT Yoda character, which is yet another example of why the PT was so terrible. No one should grow up thinking Yoda with a lightsaber is normal.
I’m pretty sure that CPY never used a lightsaber?
Guidelines for post content and general behaviour: read announcement here
Max. allowable image sizes in signatures: reminder here
Who is CPY?
I think the idea was that Yoda and the Emperor were so powerful in the force that they were beyond the need of something like a lightsaber. Yoda told Luke “your weapons, you will not need them” when he entered the cave. And the Emperor mocked Luke’s weapon like it was some kind of toy in the throne room scene on Death Star 2.
Plus there was just the whole idea of Yoda being a wise and revered spiritual leader. It’s never a good idea to see someone whose face was partially designed from the wrinkles of Einstein to be seen spinning around and jumping off walls and twirling glowsticks around.
For me anyway, I had been a lifelong Star Wars fan for 20 years, but that was the point I stopped watching the movie and said to myself “this isn’t Star Wars anymore”.
CPY: Creepy Puppet Yoda, the Yoda puppet used in TPM. Later erased from the TPM Blu-Ray special edition.
“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”
Gotcha, thanks. I thought it might be puppet Yoda but I couldn’t figure out the C.
The answer to the question Are the Prequels that bad? is to list the things what is memorable about them.
- virginal birth of Anakin Skywalker
- the prophecy of the Chosen One
- Midichlorians
- Jar Jar Binks
- Anakin/Padme romance dialogue
- Darth Vaders NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
- rigid blue screen cinematography
- 85% CGI Effects vs 15% Practical Effects (that’s just my guess)
- (feel free to continue the list)
In the end, the things that are memorable about the PT are mostly the dissapointing (=bad?) things.
Let me enhance my first post to provide additional calmer air in this thread.
So, i said the PT is memorable for mostly the dissapointing stuff. Of course the PT contains some good stuff too. But to me the dissapointing ingredients are just too overwhelming to fully appreciate the PT as entertaining movies. Because of Lucas’ creative shadow, the PT became a melodramatic space opera and not a fun space adventure with likeable characters what the OT is. That does not mean the PT is BAD. A BAD Movie is (imo) somewhat like Highlander 2, Jaws 4 or RoboCop 3. ROTS is an okay movie and as far as i’m aware of the creative whereabouts, i can honestly give Lucas some credit that he put more serious (filmmaker) effort into his last prequel movie (cut down Jar Jar, throw out young Han Solo, throw out Palpatines fatherhood, tighten the focus on Anakin’s arc within Editing & Re-Shoots).
As for the so called fan service in TFA & R1: i can give TFA a free pass with its easter egg (negatively spoken: fan service) elements because it was the first Star Wars movie after 15 years of Special Edition/Prequel melancholia and none of them interfered with the story. But R1 on the other hand, should have been more confident with its own story material rather than rely on (imo) too much easter egg (negatively spoken: fan service) elements. Just an example: the presence of Tarkin & Vader diminished the the story/character impact of Krennic. Tarkin and Vader had no reason to be in this movie. Just do a quick hologram cameo - that’s it. Don’t undermine the main villain!
When Kylo Ren says to his father: [Han Solo. I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time] some of you might argue that this quote is clumsy fan service, because Vader said that to Obi-Wan. On a secondary level that phrase is clearly an Episode IV reference (negatively spoken: fan service element). But on its primary level - [THE NARRATIVE] - the phrase works perfectly for the character of Kylo Ren. He dreaded to see his father again for years (Snoke hints that too) and Kylo Ren probably played through a potential reuinon hundreds of times in his mind. He said that specific phrase to make himself feel strong and to distance himself from the potential overwhelming emotions in that particular situation. It is a reused quote from Episode IV, but it serves perfectly the story/character drama.
Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook
When Kylo Ren says to his father: [Han Solo. I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time] some of you might argue that this quote is clumsy fan service, because Vader said that to Obi-Wan.
Did Vader say that?
I think you mean “I’ve been waiting for you Obi-Wan, we meet again at last.”
Similar but different enough. I wouldn’t consider it fan service though, maybe an echo or a soft reference to the earlier duel.
This is actually the first time I’ve associated those two lines as having some kind of relationship to be honest.
When Kylo Ren says to his father: [Han Solo. I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time] some of you might argue that this quote is clumsy fan service, because Vader said that to Obi-Wan.
Did Vader say that?
I think you mean “I’ve been waiting for you Obi-Wan, we meet again at last.”
Similar but different enough. I wouldn’t consider it fan service though, maybe an echo or a soft reference to the earlier duel.
This is actually the first time I’ve associated those two lines as having some kind of relationship to be honest.
It aren’t exactly the same words, but Kylos phrase definitely mirrored Vaders phrase.
Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook
