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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 123

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SilverWook said:

Alderaan said:

The preview of that Guardians of the Galaxy movie that I saw during the opening trailers at Rogue One made me feel the same way. Literally one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in my life.

Well, you didn’t see the first one, nor read the source material, so why would it mean anything to you?

I wasn’t talking about the storyline, which I have no clue about. I was talking about the cinematic style, the presentation, the dialogue, the characters, and the general feel I got while watching the preview, that I am very certain I would like to stay as far away from that film as I possibly can.

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I saw Speed Racer back in 08 as a wee young(er) lad, though I can barely remember anything about it, other than Racer X being the guys older brother, and the villain (I think) making one of his goons stick his hand in a glass container of pirahna’s.

Not enough people read the EU.

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THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT SPEED RACER AND GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY.

Apparently.

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Better? 😉

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I used to love The Force Awakens more than I do now. It’s just that Rogue One is so much better. It has a grittiness and realism that The Force Awakens just doesn’t have and a lot of people are right about how Episode 7 plays it safe.

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Bobo Jameson said:

I used to love The Force Awakens more than I do now. It’s just that Rogue One is so much better. It has a grittiness and realism that The Force Awakens just doesn’t have and a lot of people are right about how Episode 7 plays it safe.

The story of episode 7 is not all that good, but it’s characters are far better than that of Rogue One. The main character of Rogue One is really under developed in the film (Jyn). My favorite is Cassian. He’s the only one who’s even in the same league as Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren. But don’t get me wrong, I still really like Rogue One.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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I thought Cassian was even less interesting than Jyn. Baze n’ Chirrut are where it’s at.

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Yeah, I know I’m repeating myself, but I found Cassian to be completely uninteresting.

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I can’t wait for the blu ray release of Rogue One. I’m sure there will be TONS of awesome time-stamped deleted scenes for us to NOT use in fan-edits. 😕

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ForceGhostRecon said:

I can’t wait for the blu ray release of Rogue One. I’m sure there will be TONS of awesome time-stamped deleted scenes for us to NOT use in fan-edits. 😕

Someone did figure out a way to erase the timecode a while back.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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joefavs said:

I thought Cassian was even less interesting than Jyn. Baze n’ Chirrut are where it’s at.

Agreed.

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People keep on bringing up the idea that the characters in Rogue One are worse than those of TFA, but I think that these movies present two very different ways to create a character. In the case of TFA, the characters for the most part are larger than life, all of them at least idealized, at most mythologized. Everything they do is part of a larger destiny, and they cannot die in vain. Even Han Solo’s death was played on a huge, dramatically lit stage surrounded by other figures of destiny who will surely avenge him.

Contrast this with the characters of Rogue One, who are often subdued, restrained, ordinary. They are not figures of destiny, and even the one who has genuinely magical powers is treated as no more important in the story than the grunts in the Rebellion. It is the story of everyday people coming together to achieve a goal that will be largely unsung in the annals of history and overshadowed by the achievements of Chosen Ones.

To say that one interpretation of character is better than another is to misunderstand how TFA and Rogue One are fundamentally different movies. One is about heroes of destiny, the other about people acting heroically.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

People keep on bringing up the idea that the characters in Rogue One are worse than those of TFA, but I think that these movies present two very different ways to create a character. In the case of TFA, the characters for the most part are larger than life, all of them at least idealized, at most mythologized. Everything they do is part of a larger destiny, and they cannot die in vain. Even Han Solo’s death was played on a huge, dramatically lit stage surrounded by other figures of destiny who will surely avenge him.

Contrast this with the characters of Rogue One, who are often subdued, restrained, ordinary. They are not figures of destiny, and even the one who has genuinely magical powers is treated as no more important in the story than the grunts in the Rebellion. It is the story of everyday people coming together to achieve a goal that will be largely unsung in the annals of history and overshadowed by the achievements of Chosen Ones.

To say that one interpretation of character is better than another is to misunderstand how TFA and Rogue One are fundamentally different movies. One is about heroes of destiny, the other about people acting heroically.

Well put.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Well sure, but the characters in TFA are still better.

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Alderaan said:

The preview of that Guardians of the Galaxy movie that I saw during the opening trailers at Rogue One made me feel the same way. Literally one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in my life.

I thought you were going away again. What ever happened with that?

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NeverarGreat said:

People keep on bringing up the idea that the characters in Rogue One are worse than those of TFA, but I think that these movies present two very different ways to create a character. In the case of TFA, the characters for the most part are larger than life, all of them at least idealized, at most mythologized. Everything they do is part of a larger destiny, and they cannot die in vain. Even Han Solo’s death was played on a huge, dramatically lit stage surrounded by other figures of destiny who will surely avenge him.

Contrast this with the characters of Rogue One, who are often subdued, restrained, ordinary. They are not figures of destiny, and even the one who has genuinely magical powers is treated as no more important in the story than the grunts in the Rebellion. It is the story of everyday people coming together to achieve a goal that will be largely unsung in the annals of history and overshadowed by the achievements of Chosen Ones.

To say that one interpretation of character is better than another is to misunderstand how TFA and Rogue One are fundamentally different movies. One is about heroes of destiny, the other about people acting heroically.

I think even with the story and tone they had there still could have been more character development for the characters that were underdeveloped and character development period for characters who aren’t developed at all. TFA had more things to balance and still was able to pull off having most of our new characters be layered. Even if someone like Jyn just had more personality it would go along way.

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Lord Haseo said:

Alderaan said:

The preview of that Guardians of the Galaxy movie that I saw during the opening trailers at Rogue One made me feel the same way. Literally one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in my life.

I thought you were going away again. What ever happened with that?

You continue to display your exemplary character.

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 (Edited)

Lord Haseo said:

NeverarGreat said:

People keep on bringing up the idea that the characters in Rogue One are worse than those of TFA, but I think that these movies present two very different ways to create a character. In the case of TFA, the characters for the most part are larger than life, all of them at least idealized, at most mythologized. Everything they do is part of a larger destiny, and they cannot die in vain. Even Han Solo’s death was played on a huge, dramatically lit stage surrounded by other figures of destiny who will surely avenge him.

Contrast this with the characters of Rogue One, who are often subdued, restrained, ordinary. They are not figures of destiny, and even the one who has genuinely magical powers is treated as no more important in the story than the grunts in the Rebellion. It is the story of everyday people coming together to achieve a goal that will be largely unsung in the annals of history and overshadowed by the achievements of Chosen Ones.

To say that one interpretation of character is better than another is to misunderstand how TFA and Rogue One are fundamentally different movies. One is about heroes of destiny, the other about people acting heroically.

I think even with the story and tone they had there still could have been more character development for the characters that were underdeveloped and character development period for characters who aren’t developed at all. TFA had more things to balance and still was able to pull off having most of our new characters be layered. Even if someone like Jyn just had more personality it would go along way.

I kinda agree with both of you guys to a certain extent. I do agree that the purpose of the characters for Rogue One was very much different from that of the Force Awakens. It is more about their actions. But one of my problems with Rogue One is precisely about a characters actions.

Jyn’s struggle against the Empire doesn’t feel earned at all because she didn’t care about the empire and then suddenly did in a couple minutes. Whereas in the Force Awakens we got completely fleshed out characters with believable arcs.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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Alderaan said:

Lord Haseo said:

Alderaan said:

The preview of that Guardians of the Galaxy movie that I saw during the opening trailers at Rogue One made me feel the same way. Literally one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in my life.

I thought you were going away again. What ever happened with that?

You continue to display your exemplary character.

Only for you baby 😉

But seriously though your anti everything but OT is very reminiscent of Impscum and I want you to cease posting so that he can mysteriously pop up again. Thus further confirming my suspicion that your an Impscum sock.

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darthrush said:

Lord Haseo said:

NeverarGreat said:

People keep on bringing up the idea that the characters in Rogue One are worse than those of TFA, but I think that these movies present two very different ways to create a character. In the case of TFA, the characters for the most part are larger than life, all of them at least idealized, at most mythologized. Everything they do is part of a larger destiny, and they cannot die in vain. Even Han Solo’s death was played on a huge, dramatically lit stage surrounded by other figures of destiny who will surely avenge him.

Contrast this with the characters of Rogue One, who are often subdued, restrained, ordinary. They are not figures of destiny, and even the one who has genuinely magical powers is treated as no more important in the story than the grunts in the Rebellion. It is the story of everyday people coming together to achieve a goal that will be largely unsung in the annals of history and overshadowed by the achievements of Chosen Ones.

To say that one interpretation of character is better than another is to misunderstand how TFA and Rogue One are fundamentally different movies. One is about heroes of destiny, the other about people acting heroically.

I think even with the story and tone they had there still could have been more character development for the characters that were underdeveloped and character development period for characters who aren’t developed at all. TFA had more things to balance and still was able to pull off having most of our new characters be layered. Even if someone like Jyn just had more personality it would go along way.

I kinda agree with both of you guys to a certain extent. I do agree that the purpose of the characters for Rogue One was very much different from that of the Force Awakens. It is more about their actions. But one of my problems with Rogue One is precisely about a characters actions.

I think stronger characters would have made the strong character actions even stronger.

Jyn’s struggle against the Empire doesn’t feel earned at all because she didn’t care about the empire and then suddenly did in a couple minutes. Whereas in the Force Awakens we got completely fleshed out characters with believable arcs.

Compare that to Rey who both had a Rebellion Soldier doll in her room and showed an interest in the Resistance before she was dragged into the conflict and it makes perfect sense for her to fight against the First Order. Even taking that away her moral compass (which is something emphasized in the beginning) would lead one to believe that Rey would not agree with how The First Order operates. Rogue One needed something like this.

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Lord Haseo said:

Alderaan said:

Lord Haseo said:

Alderaan said:

The preview of that Guardians of the Galaxy movie that I saw during the opening trailers at Rogue One made me feel the same way. Literally one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in my life.

I thought you were going away again. What ever happened with that?

You continue to display your exemplary character.

Only for you baby 😉

But seriously though your anti everything but OT is very reminiscent of Impscum and I want you to cease posting so that he can mysteriously pop up again. Thus further confirming my suspicion that your an Impscum sock.

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1022041

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darthrush said:

Bobo Jameson said:

I used to love The Force Awakens more than I do now. It’s just that Rogue One is so much better. It has a grittiness and realism that The Force Awakens just doesn’t have and a lot of people are right about how Episode 7 plays it safe.

The story of episode 7 is not all that good, but it’s characters are far better than that of Rogue One. The main character of Rogue One is really under developed in the film (Jyn). My favorite is Cassian. He’s the only one who’s even in the same league as Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren. But don’t get me wrong, I still really like Rogue One.

Agreed. Having less screen time than Jyn, I think Cassian was well written. The Speech about how he fought the Empire since he was 6 and being an assassin made me almost feel pitty

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JEDIT: Realized what thread I’m in. Some mild Rogue One spoilers.

In many ways Cassian works better. You basically get the gist of what he’s all about in his first few scenes. He’s a spy for the Rebel alliance, going on missions and finding info for the cause. He doesn’t care what he has to do in the name of fighting the Empire, even if that means killing people in cold blood.

Jyn on the other hand, it’s a bit more confusing. We know that she loses her parents to the Empire at an early age and that Forest Whitaker takes her in (though it’s unclear at the time who this person is). Then we see her 15 years later and she’s in Imperial prison. Why? It’s kind of explained a bit later in the Yavin briefing scene, but it’s still unclear what kind of life this person is living. We don’t really get the full picture until about 30 minutes into the film or so when she finally meets up with Saw, and we get it, she used to be a rebel for him, she was abandoned, and now she’s going it alone, avoiding the fight. But then she changes her mind in the next scene. There’s a compelling character there but it’s mishandled.

It all comes down to the structure of the film being off in the first act especially. Everything jumps around so much it’s nearly impossible to figure the status quo, so that once the plot kicks in and we get moving, it’s hard for us to be invested as we can’t completely connect to the protagonist. Cassian almost works as another protagonist but not totally, because the conflict isn’t there - it’s almost just another mission for him. If more was made of the fact that Jyn was going along being a bad idea than maybe, but otherwise he’s supporting a character we can’t yet relate to.

And if it’s not a film about the characters and it’s more generally about the Rebellion, they drop that ball a bit too. Again the status quo isn’t totally there. We could see the thumb the galaxy is under and the small victories the Rebellion is gaining… and then bam now there’s a Death Star to quell that and how will the Alliance face it? There’s a way to make the Alliance itself the protagonist but the first act’s so jumbled that doesn’t work either.

Thankfully things come into focus on Jedha and the rest of the second act is very solid I think. However, the third act, even with it’s near perfect action sequences, fumbles again. Cassian’s character is never challenged beyond trusting Jyn, which as mentioned before, is not a thread that is fully developed. They could have delved further into his morality but it basically boils down to “I’ve done some fucked up shit so yeah I’m still in all the way.” It’s frustrating because it’s all staggeringly close to the main theme they want the film to have: “hope.” Problem is, just because they say it all the time doesn’t make it so, it has to come about through the text of the film. They could have done this organically through Jyn - the pieces are there, she used to be in but she lost all hope. But again they bungle it by having her do a 180 within a single scene. And they could have done it with the Rebellion as the de facto protagonist, but again without the solid foundation of the status quo, and without the feeling of a looming Death Star threatening the existence of the Alliance throughout the film (and not just in one scene where they air their thoughts), the resolution of the third act just isn’t there.