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Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0 (Released) — Page 3

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stretch009 said:

A little bit off topic but which LD track (what year) is used on the Spleen’s 38gb WOWOW?

Edit: Okay it’s probably more than a little off topic but I just couldn’t help but wonder if the WOWOW on the Spleen has the unlistenable 1989 mix or not.

Do you know litemakr? I don’t want to burn it to a BD50 until I know what LD mix it is.

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The thing about using the Japanese LD over the American ones for the original mix is that it’s the only LD that uses a digital mix. All the American ones are analog.

she/her
mwah

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clutchins said:

The thing about using the Japanese LD over the American ones for the original mix is that it’s the only LD that uses a digital mix. All the American ones are analog.

Digital sound doesn’t matter if the sound is compressed. The Japanese disc doesn’t sound any better than the VHS HiFi track IMO.

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stretch009 said:

stretch009 said:

A little bit off topic but which LD track (what year) is used on the Spleen’s 38gb WOWOW?

Edit: Okay it’s probably more than a little off topic but I just couldn’t help but wonder if the WOWOW on the Spleen has the unlistenable 1989 mix or not.

Do you know litemakr? I don’t want to burn it to a BD50 until I know what LD mix it is.

I don’t know what mix was included in that version.

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 (Edited)

After listing to the 1989 LD soundtrack some more it’s clear it is a remix. The optical track seems to be the only option for original theatrical sound. Here is a perfect scene to compare all 4 soundtracks:

After the ark is opened and Toht is laughing, the generator starts whirring and the lights explode. Then the Ark starts humming ominously. Mist erupts and emerges. Watch with each soundtrack starting around 1:45:50 to 1:46:28 (adjusting to a comparable volume for each) and listen for the following:

35mm Optical Dolby Track
The sound of the lights exploding is loud, with good dynamics. The humming of the Ark is distinct. The sound effects of the mist erupting and emerging are distinct.

1989 Japanese LD
The sound is thin and compressed, with less dynamic volume when the lights explode. There is an added echo as the generator flames out which isn’t on the optical track. The humming is less distinct. The sound effects of the mist erupting and emerging are distinct.

1992 LD
There is an added wind sound that starts right before the generator whir which isn’t on the other tracks. The lights exploding are loud and distinct. No echo on the flame out. The sound of the mist emerging is muted.

2002 blu-ray
The wind sound is there with less volume. The lights exploding have more bass, but aren’t as dynamic. No echo on the flame out. The music has a distinct echo added, which is very pronounced in the surround channels. The humming is much lower in volume. The sound of the mist emerging is muted.

Comparing the optical and blu-ray directly you can really hear the differences. The dynamics of the optical mix are much more dramatic.

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 (Edited)

Hmmm…I’ll have to compare myself when I get the chance. Keep in mind though that the laserdisc and print tracks could still be the same as laser just generally would go to a master source which when printed could be pushed or reduced across frequencies.
I also keep wondering if the WS LD mix is not a remix and perhaps the original Vistasonic track that was hastily abandoned in favor of a remix in Dolby just before the premiere. It’s still my favorite for some reason.
Of course as we all know there’s no way to tell with any Lucasfilm release in this time period. Unless you have hard evidence, practically anything can exist audio wise. I’m sure that all the alternate audio comes from a dedicated mono mix that they would’ve done for 16 mm and was sourced for some of the foreign tracks because they even kept doing this practice on Empire and later Jedi .
Ask anyone at LFL about hear issues and you’d probably get a very confused and unknowledgeable reply.
The BD remix of ROTLA is shamefully bad in many places. It’s no wonder the 35mm run of the “restored” version used the DVD audio.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

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 (Edited)

The widescreen LD remix is my favorite mix as well. It has the best overall balance and dynamics. If we could get a pristine version of the original Dolby mix that would be my first choice. I like the DVD/70mm mix as well, but it doesn’t quite have the same punch, even though it has discreet tracks. The blu-ray mix is quite a disappointment. Ben Burtt clearly went back to the original tapes to get the best quality, then did a bass heavy mix that is strangely flat in places. Plus the echoed music in the surround channels is really annoying.

I need to do more comparison on the 1989 LD mix, but it is not the same as the optical mix. It doesn’t seem to have any surround information encoded. Since that mix was done in 1983, I’m guessing it is a 2 channel stereo mix made specifically for home video and intentionally compressed to play well on mono TV speakers.

I suspect the Vistasonic mix sounds more like the alternate mix. That mix is more rough and the theatrical version is more polished. The foreign mixes probably use the alternate mix because the English mix was redone close to release and there wasn’t time to go back and change all of the foreign mixes.

Btw, alexp120, the blu-ray mix is not synched up correctly in your release. The audio is ahead most of the time. The LD mixes seem correct.

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litemakr said:

Btw, alexp120, the blu-ray mix is not synched up correctly in your release. The audio is ahead most of the time. The LD mixes seem correct.

When I was editing the audio files I didn’t use any delay. All I did was remove audio material and made sure that the length of my audio edits matched the length of your video.

When I played your video with my audio edits muxed-in on my computer via MPC-HC, the audio tracks, including the DTS track, were all in sync perfectly. However, when I played it through my OPPO Blu Ray player’s USB port (from my portable hard drive), I did use my Onkyo receiver’s A/V Sync feature to sync them up. My receiver always has issues with the audio not being in-sync with the video from my Blu Ray/DVD player whether its playing a physical disc or material from a USB port.

So, the solution: you may have to adjust the audio delay in your media player or audio receiver to get it in-sync with the picture.

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litemakr said:

alexp120 said:

To enhance this rare LLP theatre experience, I’ve uploaded on the ‘spleen a folder containing audio files of sound mixes of the film that have been edited to play in sync with this release.

Rather than duplicate the unintentional splicing of the release print’s optical soundtrack caused by damaged missing frames, these edits were made to polish the transition over the skip-frames so that you can better immerse yourself into the movie.

The audio options are as follows:
5.1 channel, DTS-HDMA mix from the official 2012 Blu Ray release. [dts file]
2.0 channel, Dolby Surround-encoded, 1981 theatrical mix sourced from the 1989 Japanese, Full-Screen, LaserDisc release (WAV file)*
2.0 channel, Dolby Surround-encoded, 1992 mix for the US, Wide-Screen LaserDisc release (WAV file)*

All you have to do is mux these files to the MKV video and you are good to go.

Bear in mind that each of these audio files includes the length of the introduction that proceeds the film, so, for best results, apply these files to the original video file that came with litemakr’s release

*audio files were made possible by schorman13 from his Indiana Jones LaserDisc Archive. My thanks to schorman13 for capturing the LD’s audio, for sharing, and for maintaining the archive.

Enjoy.

Awesome, thanks! If you have some extra time, the DVD mix should be included. That is a 5.1 version of the original 70mm 6 track mix. Pretty much the same as the wowow mix but less compressed. I prefer it to the blu-ray mix, which is a bit too remixed for me.

Just uploaded the edited 5.1 Dolby Digital track from the 2008 DVD.

Enjoy.

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 (Edited)

alexp120 said:

litemakr said:

Btw, alexp120, the blu-ray mix is not synched up correctly in your release. The audio is ahead most of the time. The LD mixes seem correct.

When I was editing the audio files I didn’t use any delay. All I did was remove audio material and made sure that the length of my audio edits matched the length of your video.

When I played your video with my audio edits muxed-in on my computer via MPC-HC, the audio tracks, including the DTS track, were all in sync perfectly. However, when I played it through my OPPO Blu Ray player’s USB port (from my portable hard drive), I did use my Onkyo receiver’s A/V Sync feature to sync them up. My receiver always has issues with the audio not being in-sync with the video from my Blu Ray/DVD player whether its playing a physical disc or material from a USB port.

So, the solution: you may have to adjust the audio delay in your media player or audio receiver to get it in-sync with the picture.

I’ll try that, but I’m only seeing a problem with the DTS track. Btw, I also have an Oppo player and and Onkyo receiver and am playing the file from a portable hard drive lol.

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alexp120 said:

litemakr said:

alexp120 said:

To enhance this rare LLP theatre experience, I’ve uploaded on the ‘spleen a folder containing audio files of sound mixes of the film that have been edited to play in sync with this release.

Rather than duplicate the unintentional splicing of the release print’s optical soundtrack caused by damaged missing frames, these edits were made to polish the transition over the skip-frames so that you can better immerse yourself into the movie.

The audio options are as follows:
5.1 channel, DTS-HDMA mix from the official 2012 Blu Ray release. [dts file]
2.0 channel, Dolby Surround-encoded, 1981 theatrical mix sourced from the 1989 Japanese, Full-Screen, LaserDisc release (WAV file)*
2.0 channel, Dolby Surround-encoded, 1992 mix for the US, Wide-Screen LaserDisc release (WAV file)*

All you have to do is mux these files to the MKV video and you are good to go.

Bear in mind that each of these audio files includes the length of the introduction that proceeds the film, so, for best results, apply these files to the original video file that came with litemakr’s release

*audio files were made possible by schorman13 from his Indiana Jones LaserDisc Archive. My thanks to schorman13 for capturing the LD’s audio, for sharing, and for maintaining the archive.

Enjoy.

Awesome, thanks! If you have some extra time, the DVD mix should be included. That is a 5.1 version of the original 70mm 6 track mix. Pretty much the same as the wowow mix but less compressed. I prefer it to the blu-ray mix, which is a bit too remixed for me.

Just uploaded the edited 5.1 Dolby Digital track from the 2008 DVD.

Enjoy.

Thanks!

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Is there any chance of a version being produced with UHD spec color space and bit depth? I’m not sure more than HD resolution would be helpful due to the limitations of release prints, but surely the expanded rec2020 color space and 10 bit color could provide noticeable benefits.

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Synnöve said:

Is there any chance of a version being produced with UHD spec color space and bit depth? I’m not sure more than HD resolution would be helpful due to the limitations of release prints, but surely the expanded rec2020 color space and 10 bit color could provide noticeable benefits.

The film was scanned in 12 bit CinemaDNG RAW with 12 stops of dynamic range. If we can get another print scanned, the plan is to create a UHD release with HDR.

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That sounds quite lovely. Thank you for your hard work in this matter.

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is there any german version of this???

I love Ghost Dog 😃

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litemakr said:

DrDre said:

litemakr said:

DrDre said:

I’m really curious to know, which home video release first introduced the red cast in the bar? It really changes the atmosphere.

I recently bought the first laserdisc release from 1984. However, I don’t own a laserdisc player, so I should have it transfered to dvd. It’s pan and scan, but I guess it still has some historic significance.

That’s the first home video release. I have the VHS version, I’ll track it down and take a look. The next transfer was in 1991 for the widescreen LD and VHS, I’ll check that too.

The scenes in 1981 making of have the correct color.

Did you get a chance to take a look at those home video releases?

I did find my original Raiders VHS from 1983. Unfortunately the bar scene doesn’t play anymore, it is all static. Some parts do play, and wow it’s amazing how bad the quality is. But I remember getting it as a kid and watching it repeatedly and thinking it looked great.

Anyway, I couldn’t see enough to determine the color. I do have another later VHS copy of the same transfer (they used that transfer from 1983 to 1992). I’ll try to find that. I also have the 1992 LD somewhere (the second home video transfer), I’ll try to find it.

litemakr, just wondered - did you ever watch/record the 1986 ABC premiere of ROTLA and if so, how does the colour (and the pan & scanning) compare to the home video releases of the time?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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 (Edited)

JayArgonaut said:

litemakr said:

DrDre said:

litemakr said:

DrDre said:

I’m really curious to know, which home video release first introduced the red cast in the bar? It really changes the atmosphere.

I recently bought the first laserdisc release from 1984. However, I don’t own a laserdisc player, so I should have it transfered to dvd. It’s pan and scan, but I guess it still has some historic significance.

That’s the first home video release. I have the VHS version, I’ll track it down and take a look. The next transfer was in 1991 for the widescreen LD and VHS, I’ll check that too.

The scenes in 1981 making of have the correct color.

Did you get a chance to take a look at those home video releases?

I did find my original Raiders VHS from 1983. Unfortunately the bar scene doesn’t play anymore, it is all static. Some parts do play, and wow it’s amazing how bad the quality is. But I remember getting it as a kid and watching it repeatedly and thinking it looked great.

Anyway, I couldn’t see enough to determine the color. I do have another later VHS copy of the same transfer (they used that transfer from 1983 to 1992). I’ll try to find that. I also have the 1992 LD somewhere (the second home video transfer), I’ll try to find it.

litemakr, just wondered - did you ever watch/record the 1986 ABC premiere of ROTLA and if so, how does the colour (and the pan & scanning) compare to the home video releases of the time?

I did see it and actually videotaped it at the time. ABC used the same master as the 1983 VHS and laserdisc version. That was the only version used for home video, cable or broadcast until the 1992 widescreen laserdisc, which was a new transfer. A pan and scan of that transfer was used for broadcast until the 2003 DVD.

Raiders video transfers:
1981 Making of special and Great Movie Stunts special (clips)
1983 VHS, Betamax and Laserdisc
1992 Laserdisc and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan)
2003 DVD and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan) HD version used for HD broadcasts
2011(?) 4K restoration (Japanese wowow broadcasts, 30th anniversary screenings)
2012 Blu-Ray

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litemakr said:

I did see it and actually videotaped it at the time. ABC used the same master as the 1983 VHS and laserdisc version. That was the only version used for home video, cable or broadcast until the 1992 widescreen laserdisc, which was a new transfer. A pan and scan of that transfer was used for broadcast until the 2003 DVD.

Raiders video transfers:
1981 Making of special and Great Movie Stunts special (clips)
1983 VHS, Betamax and Laserdisc
1992 Laserdisc and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan)
2003 DVD and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan) HD version used for HD broadcasts
2011(?) 4K restoration (Japanese wowow broadcasts, 30th anniversary screenings)
2012 Blu-Ray

Thanks, I knew you’d have some interesting insights and information to share. 😃

Don’t forget the CED and VHD transfers:

Raiders CED1
Raiders CED2

Raiders VHD1
Raiders VHD1

The VHD back cover appears to contain an image from a deleted scene - the shot of Indy with Marion: perhaps taken from the discarded sequence where they kissed?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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 (Edited)

JayArgonaut said:

litemakr said:

I did see it and actually videotaped it at the time. ABC used the same master as the 1983 VHS and laserdisc version. That was the only version used for home video, cable or broadcast until the 1992 widescreen laserdisc, which was a new transfer. A pan and scan of that transfer was used for broadcast until the 2003 DVD.

Raiders video transfers:
1981 Making of special and Great Movie Stunts special (clips)
1983 VHS, Betamax and Laserdisc
1992 Laserdisc and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan)
2003 DVD and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan) HD version used for HD broadcasts
2011(?) 4K restoration (Japanese wowow broadcasts, 30th anniversary screenings)
2012 Blu-Ray

Thanks, I knew you’d have some interesting insights and information to share. 😃

Don’t forget the CED and VHD transfers:

The VHD back cover appears to contain an image from a deleted scene - the shot of Indy with Marion: perhaps taken from the discarded sequence where they kissed?

Those have the 1983 transfer. You can see bits of that deleted scene in the blu-ray on set documentary. They applied the orange filter to that footage unfortunately.

I also have a copy of the 1982 Oscars, which has a number of clips from Raiders. Poor quality, so not a great color reference. Still good enough to see it doesn’t match the blu-ray though lol.

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I like how the Japanese logo fits the style of the English one. xD

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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litemakr said:

JayArgonaut said:

litemakr said:

DrDre said:

litemakr said:

DrDre said:

I’m really curious to know, which home video release first introduced the red cast in the bar? It really changes the atmosphere.

I recently bought the first laserdisc release from 1984. However, I don’t own a laserdisc player, so I should have it transfered to dvd. It’s pan and scan, but I guess it still has some historic significance.

That’s the first home video release. I have the VHS version, I’ll track it down and take a look. The next transfer was in 1991 for the widescreen LD and VHS, I’ll check that too.

The scenes in 1981 making of have the correct color.

Did you get a chance to take a look at those home video releases?

I did find my original Raiders VHS from 1983. Unfortunately the bar scene doesn’t play anymore, it is all static. Some parts do play, and wow it’s amazing how bad the quality is. But I remember getting it as a kid and watching it repeatedly and thinking it looked great.

Anyway, I couldn’t see enough to determine the color. I do have another later VHS copy of the same transfer (they used that transfer from 1983 to 1992). I’ll try to find that. I also have the 1992 LD somewhere (the second home video transfer), I’ll try to find it.

litemakr, just wondered - did you ever watch/record the 1986 ABC premiere of ROTLA and if so, how does the colour (and the pan & scanning) compare to the home video releases of the time?

I did see it and actually videotaped it at the time. ABC used the same master as the 1983 VHS and laserdisc version. That was the only version used for home video, cable or broadcast until the 1992 widescreen laserdisc, which was a new transfer. A pan and scan of that transfer was used for broadcast until the 2003 DVD.

Raiders video transfers:
1981 Making of special and Great Movie Stunts special (clips)
1983 VHS, Betamax and Laserdisc
1992 Laserdisc and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan)
2003 DVD and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan) HD version used for HD broadcasts
2011(?) 4K restoration (Japanese wowow broadcasts, 30th anniversary screenings)
2012 Blu-Ray

Now that’s a thought, what edits were made to the TV version, if any?

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

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 (Edited)

FrankT said:

litemakr said:

JayArgonaut said:

litemakr said:

DrDre said:

litemakr said:

DrDre said:

I’m really curious to know, which home video release first introduced the red cast in the bar? It really changes the atmosphere.

I recently bought the first laserdisc release from 1984. However, I don’t own a laserdisc player, so I should have it transfered to dvd. It’s pan and scan, but I guess it still has some historic significance.

That’s the first home video release. I have the VHS version, I’ll track it down and take a look. The next transfer was in 1991 for the widescreen LD and VHS, I’ll check that too.

The scenes in 1981 making of have the correct color.

Did you get a chance to take a look at those home video releases?

I did find my original Raiders VHS from 1983. Unfortunately the bar scene doesn’t play anymore, it is all static. Some parts do play, and wow it’s amazing how bad the quality is. But I remember getting it as a kid and watching it repeatedly and thinking it looked great.

Anyway, I couldn’t see enough to determine the color. I do have another later VHS copy of the same transfer (they used that transfer from 1983 to 1992). I’ll try to find that. I also have the 1992 LD somewhere (the second home video transfer), I’ll try to find it.

litemakr, just wondered - did you ever watch/record the 1986 ABC premiere of ROTLA and if so, how does the colour (and the pan & scanning) compare to the home video releases of the time?

I did see it and actually videotaped it at the time. ABC used the same master as the 1983 VHS and laserdisc version. That was the only version used for home video, cable or broadcast until the 1992 widescreen laserdisc, which was a new transfer. A pan and scan of that transfer was used for broadcast until the 2003 DVD.

Raiders video transfers:
1981 Making of special and Great Movie Stunts special (clips)
1983 VHS, Betamax and Laserdisc
1992 Laserdisc and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan)
2003 DVD and VHS (widescreen and pan and scan) HD version used for HD broadcasts
2011(?) 4K restoration (Japanese wowow broadcasts, 30th anniversary screenings)
2012 Blu-Ray

Now that’s a thought, what edits were made to the TV version, if any?

I don’t have the tape any more but the only thing I recall being edited was when Indy says “holy shit” when he sees the nazi sub. None of the violence was edited that I remember and the melting/exploding heads were not censored.

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litemakr said:

FrankT said:

Now that’s a thought, what edits were made to the TV version, if any?

I don’t have the tape any more but the only thing I recall being edited was when Indy says “holy shit” when he sees the nazi sub. None of the violence was edited that I remember and the melting/exploding heads were not censored.

IMDB (yes, I know - not always a reliable source of info) claims that 24 seconds were edited from the ABC broadcast.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/alternateversions?ref_=tt_ql_trv_5

Someone has uploaded the first three minutes of the ABC premiere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hAuu0-5rDo

Here’s another clip from the ABC premiere, this time with Indy and Marion being trapped in the Well of Souls. Indy’s exclamation of “Jesus” when his whip is mistaken by Marion for a snake, has been truncated to “Jeez.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwrKdM-45nk

I imagine the goddamn’s uttered throughout the film would’ve been altered or removed. 😄

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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Molly said:

I like how the Japanese logo fits the style of the English one. xD

Didn’t most of the international logos do?