nohandluke

I would like to address something I have just learned from watching Empire SE. I have learned that in the sound mix of the SE/2004 DVD, Yoda's voice is all messed up in the "stew-eating" scene. The voice has been re-pitched into a high-pitched squeal almost. I immediately thought this was odd, and to make sure I wasn't hearing things, I tested my pre-SE Laserdiscs and GOUT DVD. Sure enough, his voice was deeper and more, well, Yoda. You can hear the difference particularly in the line - "Why wish you become Jedi?"

Please add this to your sound editing notes for the audio side of Empire Revisited.

Adyfan,

I respectfully don't see why Dash Rendar's whatever would even be on Hoth and what it would add by placing it there somewhere. Could you please explain a logical reason why it should be there because that sounds needlessly indulgent.

MJPollard said:

Darth Solo said:

Urm, hu, haa. Shut up Nohand and Michel Jackson Pollard.

Martin John Pollard, actually. Unlike some, I don't believe in hiding behind an alias when I tell people to shut up. ;-)

 

Me neither. My real name is in the credits of Star Wars Revisited for all to see.

MJPollard said:

Am I the only one to see the irony in people who normally spit on George Lucas' name for adding all sorts of unnecessary things to the OT are now suggesting adding all sorts of unnecessary things to ESB? :)

Many of you have said that ESB is damn near perfect. Why not just leave it alone, and let Adywan do what he set out to do (correct the color, fix mistakes, and snip out things he doesn't like)? All of these suggestions ("Add more Imperials! Let's see more Rebel deaths! I want to see Luke Skywalker eating a Twinkie! Get rid of that snowflake on Chewbacca's foot!") are neat as a concept, but are either unworkable (for one man on his single PC) or just plain unnecessary.

IMHO, of course. :)

You hit the nail on the head. I stand with you on this.

adywan said:

doubleofive said:

So, Adywan, what has been your toughest shot to color correct so far? And maybe could you do another Photoshop file showing all the layers just in your color correction?

Well i've only just begun the second phase of the colour correction but i would have to say that dagobah has been the biggest challenge so far. trying to get yoda his correct colouring, or even somehwere close, has been a nightmare but i've finally got Yoda looking the way i want him to. It took many, many masks & layers to try to rebuild the colour . I think this shot alone shows just how bad the colour is with the 2004 transfer

oh , Hotrod, i've had a good look at the footage and i've discovered that it isn't a snowflake on Chewies foot. It's actually Wookie dandruff :)

Simply amazing - as always. This just brought an actual tear to my eye. Ady, can't wait to see the final result.

asterisk8 said:

 

adywan,

A couple issues regarding the Cloud City processing vane. You say, "As for the vane it is a bit of a design flaw. I think that Luke was supposed to have reached there through the long tunnel but they put the support pole in the wrong position on the matte which caused confusion."

I knew I'd seen a cutaway in a book somewhere, so I did some looking around and found this:

 

You can see that the long tunnel is actually a tram-tunnel probably intended to carry cargo back and forth from the city to the processing plant in the vane. The carbonite chamber is at the very top, and it seems to me that the lighted tube Luke walks through is all within the upper part of that vane, and not in the support arm. That should save you some trouble repainting the matte.

----

Also, when Luke exits the tunnel, a large gate closes behind him, but when we see the same tunnel entrance from a different angle a few seconds later, the gate is open.

Just to play devil's advocate here, but are these cutaway books really canon or are they skirting the line towards EU? The reason I say this is because in Empire, when the Imperial Officer drags Leia through the door and Luke follows into the darkness, he goes through the door from the main white hallways of Cloud City proper and is suddenly funneled up an elevator into the freeze chamber. I don't see anything in this cutaway that would provide walking access back to Cloud City hallways and I just don't think Leia's captors would lead their prisoners into a dead end, which they clearly don't because a few minutes later they are back in the white hallways. The whole thing doesn't make sense, I guess.

darthflan said:

Has anyone ever noticed the footprints in the snow when the Probe droid impacts Hoth? Must have been someone from the pyrotecnics crew walking up there to set the charges? All this talk about Hoth and the probe droid jogged my memory.

 

I also noticed in the asteroid chase when 3p0 says the odds are 3720 to 1, then Han says "never tell me the odds". Han slightly mouths 3p0's lines there.

 

After reading what I just posted, I thought 'My God are we Anal!' LOL

 

Not sure if that has been mentioned.....sorry if it has.

 

Flan

Yeah, Harrison seemed to have that issue in this movie. He does the same thing to Carrie Fisher during the line, "Captain, being held by you isn't quite enough to get me excited."

EXACTLY GoodMusician! I salute you!

Negative, your comments only succeed in confusing me as to WHY someone who has such disdain and uncoordinated loathing for Empire Strikes Back would have even bothered to pay God knows how much money for a 35mm print of this film. To hear you tell it, Empire is the pariah of the saga and yet you have embarked on this unprecedented investment in this print project to save it.

Do the Empire fans a favor and donate the print to Adywan or ADigitalMan or DarthEditous or someone who actually seems to care about this movie. After reading your comments and then knowing you have that print is akin to finding out that Al Gore burns redwood trees in his backyard on piles of styrofoam. I'm reminded of that certain director who insisted that Greedo fired first, and then stuck it to everyone when he wore a "Han Shoots First" shirt on the set of Indy IV.

To even begin to say that Empire was averagely directed speaks to your complete disconnection with the story behind the production. I, and many others here, have researched this film's production story (which is not easy, and there is a reason) and learned that director Irvin Kershner and producer Gary Kurtz were forced to take on George Lucas head-on to ensure the movie turned out as well as it did. I won't bore you with the details, but the behind-the-scenes saga is incredibly fascinating and really sheds a lot of light on WHY the subsequent films fell downhill so rapidly. Kershner and Kurtz were DEVOTED to the development of this story - so much so that they worked ceaselessly with the actors both on and off camera to improve the script, lighting and atmosphere. And it shows. In fact, the only reason I have the SE DVD is for Irvin Kershner's commentary, which is an education unto itself. Unlike Lucas who waxes on and on about technical effects, Kershner talks about story development and how narratives take shape and how he worked with the actors to make it all come alive.

http://www.geocities.com/mfbespinluke/production.html

In any case, you're entitled to your opinion - but it still boggles me that you have such a biting stance towards the film, and yet, you own a 35mm print of it...By chance do you also own prints of Sheena or Allan Quatermain and the Lost City of Gold? Just curious if you are a collector of films that disappointed you...

Nothing about the 1980 version of Empire Strikes Back sucked. It was a seminal moment in film history where everything came together in the end in complete narrative and aesthetic synergy. There are only a handful of films that can boast such perfection (e.g. Lawrence of Arabia) At the end of the day, were there a proper anamorphic DVD transfer of this original 1980 version, there would be no need for Adywan to even work on this film. As it is however, sadly, there is no proper DVD and hence Adywan must take a not-so-special edition and make it special so we can have something that is presentable on a modern home theater.

Whether you like the prequels or not, I believe it is very shortsighted to declare that simply because something is 28 years old means it must be updated and changed. At its very essence, Empire Strikes Back is THE ONE AND ONLY Star Wars film that did work seamlessly right out of the gate. The film was the product of a courageous script, brilliantly directed and produced with groundbreaking effort and convention-breaking choices.

Star Wars, while a narrative success certainly, suffered from the compromised budget that left many of its optical effects lagging far short of intentions (which Ady has now admirably corrected). Return of the Jedi was always only one-third the movie it was originally intended to be, and the special edition only complicated the matter. Phantom Menace was a racehorse that tripped out of the gate and limped around the track. Attack of the Clones was, aside from 10 minutes in the middle, an insipid intelligence-insulting love farce. Revenge of the Sith was, in many ways, the most troubled and negligent film of them all - the one without any excuses and yet even after almost six hours of time in previous films to tell the story of Anakin Skywalker, the creators waited until the last 20 minutes of Sith to finally get around to the essential story in a series of truncated scenes tacked on to the end in wipes while blatantly ignoring major sections of established continuity and throwing those to the wind.

The Empire Strikes Back is the only film without either fatal narrative flaws or compromising technical errors. It is "Star Wars" fully realized and the way it was originally intended, no matter what revisionist history you believe. So, if spaceship interiors a movie make, then have at it. For me, there's nothing wrong with the ship interiors, they look amazing - and probably because like every other single element of Empire Strikes Back, they all service the story and not the other way around.

Ady, my apologies for waxing poetic about this in your thread. Feel free to delete at your leisure if this offends you.

Two quick observations for Ady if you're reading this - 1) Right before Han gives C-3PO "the finger" as they're trying to get the Falcon out of Echo Base the entire computer console prop shakes because he's leaning on it - Don't know if that has been mentioned before.

Secondly, in the opening shot of Echo Base where Han rides up to the cavernous entrance on the Tauntaun, I don't recall if it was an SE addition or an Ady addition, but the Rebel Soldier standing straight up and holding the gizmo near the turret - well, he kinda looks mannequin-like. I think it's his "stillness" and his pose. I know he's "moving" in the shot, but in the span of the footage at a glance, he kind of looks like a cardboard cutout.

Every other element in that shot looks perfect. The guy with the cannon control box just isn't meshing as well.

Just an observation - take it for what it's worth - which is very little, my friend. Very little. lol

nohandluke

Hey Ady,

Just wanted to tell you how happy I am to hear that you have moved back into SD. While I was excited about the ambition, I know it would have been a serious hurdle to jump. Plus, as stated before, your SD for Star Wars is so crisp and clear, I say without exaggeration that it rivals and equals many of the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs I own.

Empire in AdySD is more than satisfactory by me.

nohandluke

I would also like to echo the sentiment above about having a version of the crawl where there is the "vintage" Empire logo instead of the "Star Wars" logo - That classic Empire logo you used in the trailer for Empire Revisited sent chills through me - might be cool to have an "alternate" crawl where that logo is displayed in all its glory.

That was a VERY interesting analysis of many items from ESB that I never noticed were continuity errors! This has been very educational for me! Thanks for posting!

I think with a little more massaging, those horns will look great. Just requires a bit more tinkering. They already look pretty solid. Just some fine-tuning.

Ady,

I'm not worried about Wampa horns, personally. Given the amount of perfection you demanded for SW:R, I have no doubts you'll either perfect or scrap the horns as you see fit. Seems to me that the majority of Empire's current problems all lie with the SE plague (color problems, Vader's shuttle, Boba's voice, Luke's joke removal, lightsaber inconsistencies) and maybe a handful of needed recomposites in the asteroid chase to remove junk mattes. The nice thing about Empire is that it was so finely crafted, Lucas can't seem to totally wreck it, no matter what kinds of bullets he fires, so you won't have to reinvent the wheel on this one like with all the other films.

nohandluke

Totally agree, vbangle. Ady, you have the free pass to get ticked whenever (and whyever) you like.

Luke and Leia were never intended to be brother and sister. So says Gary Kurtz in an interview in 2002.

Given that Empire and Wrath of Khan's effects were done by ILM in the same era and Battlestar's were done by John Dykstra, who was on the original Star Wars team, it makes sense that the visual "solution" for these explosions and debris would look similar. I'm sure Ady could fix it but it might be a really big pain and I'm not sure if that is really a "Mistake" so much as a period effects limitation and given that idea, should it be a priority area, or simply something that is corrected with a bigger explosion and more debris to "sell" the complete disappearance of the bridge module - which I believe was the intentional choice of the filmmakers to show how deadly the asteroid field is for any ship, even the massive Star Destroyers.

Do any of your friends have an LG BH200 - Those play BOTH Blus and HDs.

I have one concern about an eventual Blu-Ray version of ESB. I have been told that recordable Blu-Rays are unable to play on Blu-Ray players. This was one of the big gripes that came from the HD-DVD camp back when the war was on. Essentially that Blu-Ray "Rs" were only useful as data discs in PCs due to a deliberate lack of support as recorded movie discs on players (something about combatting piracy) Stupid Sony...

Since these are SEs and Prequels, my interest is low, but I'll happily test this Ady to let you know how it plays on my LG BH200 SuperBlu. Now where are those pesky Dual-Layer discs...I know I placed them around here somewhere...

Darth Stewie said:

nohandluke said:

The guy on the bottom ISN'T Ratzenberger - John's the guy in the top photos who tell's Leia the shield doors must be closed. He's also the same guy in that behind the scenes photo with the X-Wing and pilot BECAUSE he's ALSO the guy who says, "OK, Everybody to your stations! LET'S GO!" And yes, he's also that guy in the close-up head shot posted. He has the mustache. The other guy doesn't, hence the other guy isn't Ratzenberger.

nohandluke

Oh and Ady - While we're on famous ESB debates - Will you be coloring Han's winter coat BLUE or BROWN? Yes, there's a debate as to what color it was...Which is why Hasbro made two different versions of the same figure a few years ago...

 

 

Yeah mate, I answered those questions myself in the post above. The other guy DOES have a light colored mustache and he actually SOUNDS like John. When Derlin says, "Okay, everybody to your stations...Let's go!" SOUNDS like John too. BUT when he says "Your highness, there's nothing more we can do tonight. The shield doors must be closed" seems like it must have been dubbed. That doesn't sound like John at all.

I corrected myself so I don't need correcting again thanks.

Stewie - for the love of God - I wasn't correcting you. I was throwing in my opinion like we all do around here. Spend some time today chiseling that massive chip off your shoulder, will you?

The guy on the bottom ISN'T Ratzenberger - John's the guy in the top photos who tell's Leia the shield doors must be closed. He's also the same guy in that behind the scenes photo with the X-Wing and pilot BECAUSE he's ALSO the guy who says, "OK, Everybody to your stations! LET'S GO!" And yes, he's also that guy in the close-up head shot posted. He has the mustache. The other guy doesn't, hence the other guy isn't Ratzenberger.

nohandluke

Oh and Ady - While we're on famous ESB debates - Will you be coloring Han's winter coat BLUE or BROWN? Yes, there's a debate as to what color it was...Which is why Hasbro made two different versions of the same figure a few years ago...

Octorox said:

Just to clarify, Here's a pic of Ady's emperor again

 

WOW - That ROTS/2004 SE hood is OUT of CONTROL!

adywan said:

Darth Stewie said:

Well, its a nice splice and since you want to go back to the original dialogue I guess it will have to do. Personally, I never liked the whole scene since it creates more questions than it answers, especially with the old dialogue. I still think you should reconsider other avenues but it seems you've made up your mind. There ARE ways to make it fit into the entire story and still make it make sense. The whole debate is a which came first "vader's knowledge or the Emperor's knowledge" of Luke's existence and heritage and who's telling who what. Keeping the lines the way they were makes it that both know of his existence and the Emperor is just now realizing Luke as a threat so he elevates the threat from yellow to red. The way Clive Reville said it, it seemed that he was expecting Vader's answer and was pleased with his response. Now, with Ian's delivery "Yes. Yes." sounds like he just got some great idea from Vader. I don't buy it. No matter how much we like Vader's character, he is still a puppet on a string. He is scheming behind Palpy's back, but he is still his bitch. Hell, even Tarkin slapped him around.

I agree with most things so far on this edit of yours but my two cents are that this is a mistake. The lines shouldn't stay as they are originally or 2004 DVD's. They should be reworked along the lines of MusicMan's idea. It never made sense, and in 2004 it was a poor attempt to make it do so.

I vote no.

 

The whole scene was pretty clear to me, even as a 10 year old when it first came out, and to hell of a lot of other people. Even with Reville's delivery of "Yes..yes" (and Ian only says it once now, not twice) it was clear that Vader had just given him the idea of turning Luke to the dark side instead of just destroying him. They BOTH know about Lukes existence. Word would have reached far and wide in the galaxy about the person who destroyed the Death Star so the Emperor would have definitely have known his name. Vader is using the search for the rebellion as an excuse to find his son. He wants him to turn to the dark side and overthrow the Emperor and become the master (just see the end of the movie for proof of that). That's why he gives the Emperor the idea of turning him instead. The Emperor wouldn't have thought Luke a major threat and deemed him unimportant because there were no Jedi's (as far as he knew) that would be able to teach Luke after Obi-Wan died, so his powers would not be able to grow beyond what they were already. But Luke has now gone to Dagobah and met Yoda, which causes a tremor in the force. "We have a new enemy" = a new Jedi. He now knows he can be a threat. The original dialogue NEVER needed to be changed and certainly not to the horrible writing of the new version. The dialogue sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the writing of the rest of the movie. And the lines are back to how they were originally (apart from substituting "Luke Skywalker" for "Young Skywalker" due to having no usable audio of Ian saying "Luke")

EXACTLY!!!!! Just as I too have always understood it! As with SW:R, I can rest easy knowing Empire is in excellent hands!