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msycamore

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20-Aug-2008
Last activity
3-Apr-2016
Posts
3583

Post History

Post
#923914
Topic
THX on 35mm Tech IB preservation - HELP NEEDED
Time

Mavimao said:

So I’ve watched the Italian broadcast and here’s my personal opinion of this particular version: it’s a fullframe 16mm print that’s been cut up, rearranged and shortened. All of the changes have tape splices and judging by the size they appear on the image, they’ve been done to a 16mm print. All of this points to an unofficial version done by perhaps the TV studio.

Here are the changes I’ve noticed compared to the 35mm print (after the obvious changes to the beginning):

At around the 11:30 mark, LUH says ‘THX is that you?’ and she appears from around the corner and then, it cuts to her info text screen. In the 35mm version, it goes from this shot of her coming around the corner to the medicinal cabinet security shot to a shot of a man at a surveillance station and then her text info.

At around 14:52; they cut out a shot of LUH with her face to a wall that cross fades into the nuns walking. In the broadcast version, it goes from a shot of LUH watching the hologram to the nuns halfway through the corridor. Again, there is that tape splice.

At around 15:40, there’s a splice after THX’s second ‘confession’. It’s missing a longer shot of him throwing up.

At around 19:15: Splice! Goes from the men jogging to the malfunctioning guard. Missing two shots: the man looking out the window and the man staring at numbers.

At around 20:46: There’s a minute and 20 seconds spliced out after THX and LUH have their talk in the crowd. It’s missing a surveillance shot and shots of THX at home before deciding to investigate over at SEN’s place. Again, tape splice.

At 23:12: Another tape splice. Missing shots: LUH asking for THX (“Tex??”) and then shots of them praying to the Jedi-monk hologram.

At 24:33. Tape Splice. Weird shower shot is cut.

(subtitle spelling mistake: ‘You’re loosing it’ should be: You’re losing it)

After THX’s arrest, the shot order of this section in the Italian Broadcast matches that of the 35mm and the 16mm.

I stopped here since we don’t have the rest of the film.

Nice detective work! For additional info on the Italian TV-Broadcast DVD, see my old detective work here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations/post/588049/#TopicPost588049

Post
#923630
Topic
- Greedo & Jabba subtitles, theatrical placement and fonts -
Time

CatBus said:

Okay, last thread spam regarding fonts I haven’t even released yet. But seriously, they’re coming.

Great work Catbus! I don’t think anyone regard your posts as thread spam. You’re just keeping an old one alive. I don’t say it just because I’m an old creator of this thread, but I think most people around here appreciate having most of their info in as few threads as possible. Keep it up…

Post
#904861
Topic
When did you sense a disturbance in the Force?
Time

adywan said:

BobaJett said:

The thing everyone has to remember is that Lucas was creating a kids movie.

If this is the case, then why would George have been panicking that he made a kids movie just before the release of Star Wars? If that was his goal all along then he wouldn’t have been worried. First i remember George calling Star Wars a kids movie was after the prequels were slammed by fans.

I believe his concern had more to do with the G rating the film received, which by this time was seen as “uncool and a sort of box-office poison for a non-animated film.” The studio actually resubmitted the film and requested a PG rating. http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2014/08/27/movie-legends-revealed-did-star-wars-add-a-severed-arm-to-earn-a-pg-rating/

I recall Lucas saying in interviews both before and right after its premiere that his main target was young teenagers. And that was basically what some would call a “kids movie” back then. But we all know what happened…

This post has been edited.

Post
#889000
Topic
Rate TFA (NO SPOILERS)
Time

TavorX said:

msycamore said:
The Force Awakens: Not yet seen. And have not yet decided if I’m going to. Please, convince a grumpy old fart if he should?

I went with my dad to see TFA. My dad was 6 in '77 and saw it in all its glory, as well as the other two following. He has no respect for the prequels.

Then this past Saturday, my old man teared up and smiled seeing all the old characters return. You’ll won’t see these actors for very long, and it would be a motivating factor to see them return one last time in my opinion. The stars you grew up with.

Ha ha, that’s fantastic, I’m born in '71 myself. I loathed the very idea of a new film with the old cast a few years ago but I see so many positive responses lately I’m thinking about swallowing the bait…

Thanks guys

This post has been edited.

Post
#888979
Topic
Rate TFA (NO SPOILERS)
Time

Not a fan of ranking films, but here goes…
Star Wars: 4,5/5 - Groundbreaking classic. A celebration of film and the ultimate feel good (fantasy) film. Only a weak middle act (Death Star) keep it from a perfect score. (best film score ever produced)
The Empire Strikes Back: 5/5 - Perhaps the boldest sequel ever made. A dark fairytale so beautifully conceived it hurts. A masterpiece in the genre on every level.
Return of the Jedi: 2/5 - Huge disappointment. Stupid and poor conclusion that only gets worse the more the years go by. Great puppetry (Jabba) and costume design (royal guards) but the magic was gone.

The Phantom Menace: 1/5 - Sterile test-tube baby
Attack of the Clones: Never seen it, and probably never will
Revenge of the Sith: Never seen it, and probably never will

The Force Awakens: Not yet seen. And have not yet decided if I’m going to. Please, convince a grumpy old fart if he should?

Post
#886315
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc... Star Wars finds
Time

none said:

Quote:“In 1979, Craig Miller wrote and produced a series of 1-800 telephone messages to promote “The Empire Strikes Back”. The audio recording you’re about to hear is an outtake from the recording session” Mark Hamill, James Earl Jones and Carrie Fisher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqzxMsy-_n8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li5UQYr4NoM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flgH9xb42PY
“Mr. Miller’s former Lucasfilm colleague, Mark Marshall, brought these outtakes to him. Mr. Miller and a friend (Damien Slattery) put in the work to clean up the audio and produce them as these little videos.”

This is fantastic. Thanks for posting, none!

Post
#886312
Topic
THE FORCE AWAKENS (Episode VII) Discussion *SPOILER THREAD* See OP For Trailer/Teaser Links--Trailer is out!
Time

emanswfan said:

I’ve kept saying I was going to leave, but I’m pretty much “f*** it” since being sick in bed for days makes you a bit bored. Twitter reactions have been almost all very positive, with only a few worrying tweets.

This Pastebin description is making the rounds, and it hasn’t exactly been entirely confirmed yet, but if it’s real, it’s worse than I could have imagined. Better than the prequels, sure. But doesn’t sound anywhere as good as the originals.

Here are random spoilers for STAR WARS Episode VII which I saw today. Just because I want to ruin your fun:

The first line of the opening crawl is “Luke Skywalker has disappeared.”

And so has the original Star Wars.

I didn’t expect much but that breakdown of the plot does not impress, glad I’m not emotionally invested in these new adventures. The trailers and tv-spots only gives me a SW-greatest hits feeling. Another rehash of SW’77 and a struggle between cousins? Well, it’s all about the execution I guess. The new generation of kids will probably love it…

Post
#881914
Topic
Return of the Jedi
Time

Bingowings said:

The Sandpeople are depicted as physical beings with interesting details in their costumes that speak of a culture beyond what is said.
The Ewoks and Gungans could have filled a similar role but they look increasingly less physical and are played for laughs.


Doesn’t this fella look physical enough? ; )

CatBus said:

Actually, I forgot to mention one of the biggest gripes story-wise with ROTJ, because at this point it’s so ingrained: Leia is Luke’s sister. I mean, Jesus, really? Vader being Luke’s father worked, sure, and it blew everyone’s mind. But Leia is his sister?!? All this does is add soap opera dynamic with no payoff. I remember at the time, people saw it and started joking that Han was Luke’s brother, and Chewie was his dog, etc. It became the subject of parody–the entire Star Wars galaxy was shrinking down to one family. I mean nobody went completely bonkers and claimed Darth and Greedo were childhood friends or that Darth made C-3PO in his basement, but it was still widely ridiculed. And I feel it was a fair criticism.

Well said. It was indeed the subject of parody at the time. Making Leia his twin sister was basically when Star Wars jumped the shark in a script and movie full of what a fuck were they thinking moments. Phantom Menace just turned out to be an extension of all that. It’s also technically inept in many departments where we had come to expect high production values from the previous ones.

Post
#794911
Topic
Dolby Digital 4.1 Surround - Alien Anthology
Time

Interesting observations. alexp120, I just read those PMs you sent me, sorry for not giving you a response sooner. Been away from the forum for quite some time.

I'll see if I can find and upload my audio files again.

Post
#794907
Topic
Star Wars: Episode VII to be directed by J.J. Abrams **NON SPOILER THREAD**
Time

Bingowings said:

Some of the effects are amazing :

but then you get the cut and paste repeat model shots, the obvious flip shots, and Wedge's X-wing is really badly integrated into the shot where he turns his ship to escape the reactor chamber.

The quality control on Jedi's effects was the poorest of the three.

That Gif is a classic. :) Bingowings, are you aware that Fett's air-swim looks even worse in the 1983 original.

Jedi definitely contain a few of the most technically impressive optical effects in the classic trilogy but at the same time some of the worst. As a film I believe The Force Awakens will beat the crap out of the poor third entry, fake looking CGI or not. The only problem is that it's a sequel to Jedi.

Post
#794613
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

SilverWook said:

I stand corrected. Either it was a rights issue with Buck, or maybe they used a print where it was missing? Someone unfamiliar with THX would never know it was gone.

Yes, if I recall correctly, this was only the case with a few early video releases in Britain. The way I understand it, all American home video releases always included it. Could have been a rights issue like you said.

Post
#794602
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

Cedric T Sealion said:

That's weird, it's not on either of the UK VHS releases I owned. And I thought the DVD had a clip from a different B&W film?

Ah, you're right. It was absent on a few early homevideo releases. The last UK VHS, released in 1995 included it.

Post
#794458
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

Cedric, like Silver said all english language versions available to us contain the Buck Rogers intro. Throughout this thread I have posted a Hollywood Reporter review from the 1971 premiere which mention its inclusion. The IMDB info is incorrect in this case. (print variations are still possible of course)

Post
#794420
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

poita said:

This is the entire THX1138 1971 version, as it was when originally released in Cinemas. It is a 16mm print, that is faded very heavily to red. This file is an attempt to rescan the print with a different technique to recover whatever colour still remains on the print. It will need cleanup, colour correction, stabilisation, sound sync etc. It is the only record so far of how the film was originally presented to audiences in 1971. I have also viewed a 1971 35mm Tech-IB and it is the same as far as content goes, so this is how the film was in 1971.

I think this is the first time since then that we can see that version of the film.

 This is pretty major. Thanks poita! F***in awesome! :)

Post
#774813
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

SilverWook said:

What? I'm a dirty Wookiee now? I bathe quite often, I assure you! ;)

Ha, ha, wanted to see if you were awake. ;) Btw, our friend Coily is absent in this print.

 

Just a reminder, from AntcuFaalb's description:

*dropped the chroma because of the red fade (this is for analysis, folks!)

Post
#774661
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

Jetrell Fo said:

towne32 said:

And I don't think its strange to also try to learn more about the mysterious history of the film. It's real, of course! And from 1971! But some accounts suggest there may or may not have been yet other versions.

This I totally get. 

Maybe it's me but it seems there are some folks who aren't happy with any answer given, even though it's not the fault of the folks providing what info there is, but more a problem with the history of the myth/urban legend of this film and it's journey.

Who exactly are these folks that aren't happy? Speaking for myself, SilverWook and Poita and whoever scanned this print are fucking heroes. Don't confuse all this version differences debacle with ungratefulness. I have great respect for Poita's knowledge in this matter and I fully trust him on this and I'm sure other do as well, but that doesn't mean we should all stop discussing the false information and revisionism surrounding this film just because this print is now scanned. This is major stuff in my mind that some of us have been discussing in this thread since around 2010. I'm not here to get my tongue brown, I'm genuinely interested in the history of this film.

Besides, I believe most of us who are posting in this thread helped Poita and the dirty silver haired wookiee getting this print, I know I did, albeit in a very small amount. You are wrong if you believe it's a one man show. I thanked everyone many pages back before the scan was done, and I thank everyone again. I think this is awesome, but we're not completely there yet. I will also take the opportunity and thank Antcufaalb for his job on this and his upload, not an easy undertaking.

Post
#774582
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

thxita said:

Well, since we are there at fixing... my name has changed from erri_wan to thxita in these years ;)

Sure, it's because it originally belonged to the Italian DVD upload. You are credited as erri_wan in the DVD subtitles anyway. ;)

Post
#774568
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

Tried to update the text that describes the different versions of the film in the first post of the thread. Please let me know if it's clear enough. My English grammar isn't the best, so let me know if you see something funny.

Post
#774473
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

SilverWook said:

I should probably keep my full frame THX print for the Buck Rogers prologue, correct?

The scope print have the prologue too. It was just a re-encode of the original upload that was missing it.

Post
#773918
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

Chouonsoku said:

Hey guys, I threw together the encode on the spleen and can confirm the original .MOV files of the scan do have the Buck Rogers clip, I trimmed it from the encode as I did not have nearly as much knowledge of the source as you guys seem to! I'm very sorry about that and if anyone wants a 100% unaltered encode of the scan with the clip, reel ends and all I can do one. Just trimmed it to the movie by itself as I thought that was easier for comparison. Sorry for any confusion!!

Total Runtime (w/ Buck Rogers Clip): 01:26:23 / 124277 frames

Full Scan Runtime (NO TRIMS): 01:27:24 / 125754 frames

No problem. Huge thanks for doing it in the first place. As this was more for analysis than anything else it's cool, no need for another re-encode. Others may think differently of course. You might want to mention the absence of it in the description though, in case you've not already done that. Thanks.

Post
#773909
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations"
Time

poita said:

Apparently the IB was part of the original deal for THX1138, so thankfully there were some struck at the time.

That is fantastic. I guess we should all thank Francis for that.

My gut feel is that the 5 minutes supposedly cut, were not necessarily cut from the running time as such, perhaps it was roughly 5 minutes of changes, or just a sloppy metaphor for "they changed my film a bunch and I am crabby about it".

The 16mm version and the Tech IB appear to be identical, both also have the Buck Rogers sequence, which is mentioned in the reviews of the day, so it would appear that the 16mm is the release version that hit cinemas in 1971.

The different editing in the middle of the film encompass more than 5 minutes though, and no scene is cut, just a different placement of scenes. And on top of that there's slightly more footage with SEN (Donald Pleasence) talking with the children.

This is very different from the information we've been fed with. But, what's beautiful is that the prints don't lie. You say the Tech IB appear to be identical, are you able to get it 100% confirmed from the owner of the print that it is exactly the same cut of the film as on this 16mm print?

The version Lucas put out post Star Wars is significantly different in the details...

Have you been able to see a re-release print? I'm curious to know if they match the 80's home video release version with all the false information around.

...so in all likelihood I think we are now, finally, seeing the version that was released in 1971, and like many pieces of history, what has been reported and re-reported, without hard evidence, may in fact end up being more myth than fact.

Well, Lucas sometimes like to consider himself a mythmaker. ;)

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