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metalmunki

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31-Aug-2011
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17-Apr-2015
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Post
#758413
Topic
The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread
Time

ben_danger said:

I wonder how moving the celebration montages to AFTER a hyperspace ending would work? Or dare I suggest - intercut into a unique saga wide credit sequence?

 See now I'm going to have to out my ideal, which is likely going to cause a few nauseous reactions:

I would love to see the montage scene altered into something like the Superman Returns opening credits sequence

No credits though, keep it part of the movie proper, swooping and hyper spacing to a few different planets to show, rather than celebrating, continuing battles, some alien fauna etc - just little vignettes of the Star Wars universe  -show that while this decisive battle is won, amazing and crazy stuff is still out there - the universe continues beyond this story. If you know of Jodorowsky's Dune concept for his intro, you know what I'm talking about.

And finally (this bit is just me I'm sure, but frankly I don't see how we can avoid addressing it in some way if I haven't lost you yet, I will now!), the camera finally moves to Tatooine skimming the dunes, to the edge of the Sarlaac pit where we see Boba Fett's helmet half-buried in the sand, his gloved hand comes from out of shot to claim it, then we iris to the credits and the credits theme.

Post
#758065
Topic
The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread
Time

Bingowings said:

ROTJ is as up for grabs as the PT in my book.

That said I think the aim should be to look at the films as they are and imagine what they positively could have been and move the films towards that.

Realising the potential hidden in the ore of the theatrical cut and the SEs.

ANH and ESB just needed a bit of modern looking polish added to make a more accomplished special edition.

ROTJ and the PT need major restructuring but I think the core aims should be left intact.

I personally would prefer ROTJ to end with the rebellion not over or implied to be.

Have our heroes jump into hyperspace with the knowledge that the saga continues. Those celebrations added for the SEs are premature, a cherry on a yet to be finished cake.

 I guess I just took the montages to be over a reasonable period of time (months?) rather than parallel to the battle of Endor. The only one that felt really out of place to me there was the Tatooine one. I mean, why would they give a damn?

Post
#757951
Topic
The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread
Time

I'll address both of you in this post just because .Mac stated he agreed with everything metalmunki said.[...]

That's some Sith-like/Iraq war-like thinking there. You think the Alliance would happily go full-force on a heavily populated world? It's not all Stormtroopers down there, you know. The Alliance attacks *military* targets. They are out and out good-guys (this is pulp/family entertainment after all not a gritty war drama). Coruscant itself is a hearts and minds campaign if anything,and the ending ROTJ montage justifies that.

No, just no.

ROTJ has its problems (We could've done with the forest coming alive to indirectly help kill the STs rather than just Ewoks, for example), but wholesale changing plot and location is just too far. ROTJ still has to be ROTJ.

This post has been edited.

Post
#757327
Topic
The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread
Time

I prefer DS2 being around Endor's moon where it is. It makes more sense that  it's being built somewhere 'hidden', and that it's a surprise that the Emperor is personally showing up ("The Emperor is coming here!?")

There is just no way the Rebel fleet would do a direct assault on the Coruscant system.

What I will say is, I'd like to see Endor itself more prominent in the forest moon's sky and perhaps in some of the space shots, and the DS2 being more obviously in the moon's orbit in some of the shots also.

This post has been edited.

Post
#757325
Topic
originaltrilogy.com 'home' page
Time

So, I notice the home page hasn't had any news or been updated since forever. Why not remove it and just point the domain straight at the forums page? Surely that's better than making it look like the site is dead?

Just a thought.

Post
#722452
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

Jonno said:

A strange thing to say, considering you're the one questioning the visual flow of an incredibly well constructed sequence in an incredibly well structured film. It's an absolute masterclass in editing, and one which I'm admittedly quite defensive about since the horrific mangling of the climax in the SEs. If that taught us anything: you don't have to see everything.

 You know what, I retract the last remark. It was a step too far on reflection. I'm being defensive as it felt the point I was making was being dismissed out of hand.

I agree you don't have to see everything, which is why I think removing the 'roid from the cockpit view would actually improve it. I think an argument can be made for whoever was responsible for it being there, isn't adhering to your own conclusion.

However, you like it as is and I accept that. I just don't agree with it :)

Post
#722370
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

Jonno said:

metalmunki said:

The problem here I feel(in the original, not just your edit Ady), is that there is a straight cut from the one scene to the next, indicating no passage of time, where as we can clearly see 'the big one' pretty far away in the first shot.

 Nope, you're labouring under the misapprehension that these films are playing in real time unless there's a wipe.

It's an absolutely standard aspect of editing grammar that a cut can omit unnecessary time - usually a matter of seconds, sometimes more - from a single scene. I would imagine that most viewers have an innate understanding of this.

If you start to pull on that thread, you'll have a wipe every 30 seconds...

 Not only did you manage to sound utterly condescending, but you're completely wrong in this case.

The big asteroid they are clearly heading towards  is not that close in the cockpit scene, then suddenly is so enormous it's only partially on screen when we go to an exterior effects shot. In this case, having the asteroid visible in such a way in the cockpit scene actually hurts the shot that follows. That cockpit view of a big rock is a limitation of the effects/budget of the time, not some auteur's labour of love.

Jonno said:

It's inevitable really - a well-meaning invitation for suggestions opens the floodgates for those who, rather than pointing out actual shortcomings in the vintage visual effects, decide to start second-guessing the genuine craftsmanship of filmmakers at the top of their game.

Fortunately the actual work is in the hands of someone who well understands the difference between the two.

Oh wow, never mind you're just an ass. Ady has changed comparative distance shots before based on continuity, this is no different. He might not wish to change it feeling that it works just fine as it is, and that's totally fine because it's his vision, but please don't assume you're somehow more qualified to opine than the rest of us. You aren't a special snowflake.

This post has been edited.

Post
#722190
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

Apologies for stealing your images Ronster but wanted to make my own point/suggestion about this scene:

ass1

ass2

The problem here I feel(in the original, not just your edit Ady), is that there is a straight cut from the one scene to the next, indicating no passage of time, where as we can clearly see 'the big one' pretty far away in the first shot.

I would suggest one of the following:

1) Have the asteroid in the first shot approaching much faster and/or bigger in the first place (would make the most sense to preserve original material while at the same time while creating better continuity, but no idea if it would look decent or not).

2) remove it entirely from the cockpit scene, as the audience would just assume it's present off-screen below the Falcon, as the next shot show's them descending. (may be the optimal solution).

3) Screen wipe between the two (certainly the most inelegant, but probably the easiest and most 'Star Warsy').

This post has been edited.

Post
#707580
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

Minor issue (milage may vary)  I noticed while rewatching the clip:

During the part where Han says "I'm going in closer to one of the big ones", we see an outside shot of what is presumably the 'big one' in question.  However it seems to be approaching the Falcon at a speed indicative of something much smaller. I would suggest having it completely static, while the rest of the scenery moves around as normal, to convey size.

This post has been edited.

Post
#706535
Topic
The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread
Time

Here's my suggestion for a ANH:R HD change. Fair warning, it's not for you purists:

So it's like a common joke/plot hole about the Imperials not firing on the escape pod at the start of the movie, right? Well, what if they did? And what if they fired at a shitload of them as more rebels try to escape and the droids manage to land on Tatooine out of sheer luck of avoiding a hail of turbo laser flack?

How it could be done just using effects like Ady does (I'm using Ady's comparison images as they are the easiest to get hold of to illustrate my point:

1.

Instead of just one pod shooting towards the lower screen, we see multiple ones firing off in all different lower directions.

2.


Either cut the dialogue or nix the scene entirely (Note: if keeping it, just have the dialogue 'there goes another one', show more pods and some turbo laser fire in the viewer, then cut)

3.



At this point show multiple turbo laser fire and flak bursts outside the pod. More pods if there's room, but it may look a little cramped then.

4.

Again, at this point show more turbo laser fire coming from behind camera and more pods trying to make it to the planet surface.

5.

Not strictly needed, but may want to look at this scene in light of the above changes, perhaps nix it entirely or change its place in the movie. Or, just leave it. Everything still works.

Obivously, if Ady went this route, he may decide to do an additional miniature/effects shot that shows an expanded view of the Star Destroyer firing at the pods as they jettison which wouldn't be out of place.

The net affect of this change is:

a) No more weird plot hole. Possibly the most cited  plot hole in Star Wars history.

b) It makes the Empire's search and occupation of Tatooine feel more sinister and tense, as you can assume they are tracking down multiple rebel escapees to kill and looking for the Death Star plans, rather than just stumbling onto Jawas at their appointed time. They seem less bumbling/lucky. Also, there's no real reason in the original why they wouldn't be able to track that single 'no life form pod' all the way to the surface far faster than the droids would've been able to clear the area. Now, there is, as they have multiple pods and locations to check.

This post has been edited.

Post
#705934
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

Jonnosaid:

This reminds me of that discussion between Lucas and Marquand regarding the rebel briefing room in RotJ - the one in which Lucas declared that the rebels were winning because they had the best equipment (can't remember which thread that was cited in - perhaps this one?)

There's no logical reason why the Empire, with their unlimited reach and resources, would purposely field an inferior fighter as an absolute standard - even taking the argument that the first-line flyers are disposable, how come we never see the big guns?

Worse, the idea that X-Wings are just better ships serves to further undermine the whole ethos of the rebellion. As far as the films present the situation (and that's where I personally draw the line), the X-Wing vs. TIE match is at the very least equal, and the outcome of a dogfight entirely depends on pilot skill and courage... and that's the whole point. Or at least it used to be.

 Ok, this is from my X-wing vs TIE Fighter days many moons ago, but it's a good as explanation as any:

The X-wing is a multi-role craft, it has decent speed, guns and maneuverability and a hyperdrive. It was a secret design for the Empire, but the plans were stolen - at which point the Empire just thought 'fuck it, why bother it's out there now'. Before this, the rebels were using Z-95s as their primary superiority craft.
 

The stock TIE Fighter is short-range and weaker, yes. But it's just as fast as an X-wing and more maneuverable. They can also be mass-produced cheaply and quickly. That's why the Empire fields them. They aren't as over-engineered as the X-wing and that has positives and negatives, but they serve a specific purpose: which is air superiority and defence.

Now, by the time we get to ROTJ, the Empire have the TIE Interceptor, which is pretty much the MiG to the X-wing's F16 and far more dangerous to the X-wings in a 1 on 1 fight. It has the same gun array as the X-wing, is just as cheap and quick to produce as the original TIE, and still just as fast and maneuverable. If you're a hotrod Imperial pilot, this is the one you want to be in.

Post
#705926
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

muddyknees2000 said:

Lord Haseo said:

What is wrong with the Wampa?

 He wasn't breast fed.

 You owe me a coffee. And a new keyboard.

regularjoe said:

timdiggerm said:

We should probably start a "Spot the Errors: ROTJ!" thread

 Well, there's two big errors:

1 - the first half of the movie

2- the second half of the movie.

I'd like to think after watching the three Danedits that the movie is salvageable.

 Scandalous!

This post has been edited.

Post
#704507
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

brimforge said:

hehe, when did Luke get his X-Wing back ?

I forgot that he parked it on Cloud City (now off-limits for Rebels), but flying it later to Tatooine and Dagobah ... (*

 I'm genuinely surprised this is an issue for some. It'd be like wondering if John Maclain ever gets his original shoes back in Die Hard.

We don't even know that the X-wing in ESB is the same one he flew in ANH. It's just a military fighter, it's not a personally-owned ship with sentimental attachment like the Falcon.

Maybe it was scrapped, maybe it was sold on/stolen or confiscated by the Empire. It doesn't really make any difference.

Post
#701094
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

re: windowframegate/windowframeageddon

Wow I feel like I caused this row :(

Honestly, it was the initial impression that the cockpit seemed shorter than it actually was, and the wider shot made me think of the camera hanging outside the set like it was an open window.

However, since Ady posted those side-on view comparison shots, the cockpit obviously goes much further forward beyond the dashboard than I thought, so the point is moot.

Even if that wasn't the case, I will repeat my original opinion: Ady's shots are much preferred.

This post has been edited.

Post
#700627
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

Sojourn said:

Awesome work as always, Ady! Does anyone know why they were cropped in the first place?

 I suspect the reason they were cropped is because you can it looks obvious the camera is looking in from OUTSIDE the cockpit and it looks more like a set (because you aren't seeing any cockpit window/window frame.) 

I prefer Ady's efforts overall, though. I'd rather see the whole cockpit.

Post
#696020
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

Markstar said:

Am I the only one who would have been happy with Ady's excellent color correction and fixing the top 10 most obvious errors?

Clearly the finished edition will be a work of art and it is already very impressive, but looking at the previous "flap" sample I wonder if this isn't too much effort and too high a cost for such "little" effect.

As a programmer I can easily relate how, when you have a project, you find more and more things to fix and more and more detail to add. But there comes the point when you just have to say "that's it" and find a reasonable balance.

Especially when you are working alone on that kind of project. Adywan is getting outpaced by technology. This thing started with DVD format and by now we have seen the introduction of 720, 1080, 3D and now 4k. Don't get me wrong, I'm still find with a good DVD quality movie on our 46" and will be grateful for whatever Adywan is going to release whenever he sees fit. All I'm saying there is merit in having a schedule that doesn't span a decade.

 Concerning stuff like the flaps, I think what we have to bear in mind is that, from Ady's point of view, he's trying to finish them in such a way that he never has to come back to them. He's already fallen into that trap with ANH:R. So while it might seem like overkill, he's probably just ensuring his work stands the test of time.

The technology stuff isn't really a factor, as it's a battle without an end when you think about it.

This post has been edited.

Post
#695679
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

oh_riginal said:

metalmunki said:

HigHurtenflurst said:

DF Shadow said:

^^ Same here. I recall it was mentioned that ROTJR will be altered more than ANHR & ESBR. So I'm VERY curious about Ady's plans for the Jabba sequence and cannot wait for the eventual thread where we can all discuss it and offer ideas.

 Please Please PLEASE let something be done about the Ewoks!!  Suspension of disbelief can only go so far, and teddy bears defeating professional soldiers in armor always kicked me right out of the movie.

Hopefully we'll get a sneak peek at the hanger shots as they come together...  Can't wait to see what's changed.

 Not that I expect Ady to manage anything on this level, but I always thought it'd be more elegant if the entire forest was fighting the Empire having been disturbed by the battle eg. Stormtroopers chase Ewoks into a clearing, who disappear into the bushes, then a giant plant monster grabs and eats the Stormtroopers. You could even use CG to have monsters/living vines pulling DOWN the AT-ST instead of the daft tripping on logs bit that happens in the original.

The forest, apart from the noises, always did seem a bit devoid of life.

Basically, the ending from Avatar, Ewok Edition.

I'd be happy with just some Rebel troops added into the battle, with the Ewoks downplayed, and add in some of the deleted footage of Han Solo's team fighting their way into the base to set the explosives.

Back on topic: Has Ady or anyone else put together a blu ray cover yet? I'm pumped to get it ready for ESB:R's release!

 In my defence, I'd given this some thought long before Avatar ever showed up (happy days on the TheForce.net just after the release of TPM), but I'd swear I'd got the idea from an early concept for ROTJ. I could be way off base and imagined that last bit, though. I think it seems a pretty natural fit: The Ewoks are diminutive and primitive. Their only advantage is numbers, so unless we're going to get swarms of them World War Z style, I think having their knowledge of the forest play a part makes sense. I'm not talking about Avatar's autoimmune system-like eco-system, more the Ewoks leading the Imperials into dangerous situations with local fauna and flora.

This post has been edited.

Post
#695611
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN** - **Suggestions now closed**
Time

HigHurtenflurst said:

DF Shadow said:

^^ Same here. I recall it was mentioned that ROTJR will be altered more than ANHR & ESBR. So I'm VERY curious about Ady's plans for the Jabba sequence and cannot wait for the eventual thread where we can all discuss it and offer ideas.

 Please Please PLEASE let something be done about the Ewoks!!  Suspension of disbelief can only go so far, and teddy bears defeating professional soldiers in armor always kicked me right out of the movie.

Hopefully we'll get a sneak peek at the hanger shots as they come together...  Can't wait to see what's changed.

 Not that I expect Ady to manage anything on this level, but I always thought it'd be more elegant if the entire forest was fighting the Empire having been disturbed by the battle eg. Stormtroopers chase Ewoks into a clearing, who disappear into the bushes, then a giant plant monster grabs and eats the Stormtroopers. You could even use CG to have monsters/living vines pulling DOWN the AT-ST instead of the daft tripping on logs bit that happens in the original.

The forest, apart from the noises, always did seem a bit devoid of life.

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