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marvins

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Join date
25-Apr-2012
Last activity
12-Jul-2021
Posts
155

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Post
#631125
Topic
Preserving "French" Original Trilogy - ANH V1.0 released - ESB in progress
Time

Laserschwert said:

Yes, Harmy's colors are slightly more saturated. But we shouldn't forget that he got an actual film source as color reference, whereas we only have analogue transfers (VHS and LD) for the international versions. So I'd say his colors are probably the real deal.

That's sure for the original version. But for the international versions, who knows ? For me the text "il y a bien longtemps" was always in light blue.

Anyway a choice must be done and because you friendly make the french crawl you can chose the colors you find the best.

Post
#631111
Topic
Preserving "French" Original Trilogy - ANH V1.0 released - ESB in progress
Time

Laserschwert said:

Logo placement isn't a problem, although when I move the French opening clip (with the Star Destroyer flying overhead) to the same exact position as Harmy's video track, the Fox logo is shifted way to the left. Since I'll be using Harmy's Fox logo, its position in relation to the title cards will be different from the French home video versions.

So the question here is, should I properly center the title cards, or leave them (noticably) off center to the right?

 

I would say the title should be centered so that it looks like in the french video release.

 

The opening logo doesn't start a frame too early in my version, since I've timed it to the english opening logo, and when I do that, the rest of the film lines up as well. If I make the logo appear one frame earlier, the rest of the film plays one frame earlier as well, and we obviously wouldn't want that. I guess the French opening logo sequence (from Fox logo to before the LGdÉ logo) is simply one frame shorter than the English one, but since we're timing this to the GOUT (audio and picture-wise), the English timing will be the way to go.

Alright, I agree.

The crawl isn't moving too fast, but it's scaled incorrectly instead. The "La Guerre des Étoiles" logo is squashed vertically, so I should squash my logo and crawl as well. I'll fix that.

That's good news, thank you :)

Colorwise I think I'll just use Harmy's colors for the Lucasfilm and "A long time ago" cards, since those greens and blues look different in each transfer.

Are these colors different as the colors you use in your first test ? Because, for me, your colors was very good.

Post
#631006
Topic
Star Wars sound mixes
Time

Moth3r said:

 Apparently, an article about dubbing the new scenes in the SE was printed in 1997 in "Les Années Laser", a French magazine about home cinema.

There was a history of "who dubbed what and how" and also an interesting statement about the sound of the French LDs being plain stereo and not Dolby Surround because the original 1977 French mix for the movie was only a 2-channel stereo mix due to limitations of French theaters at the time. (Same statement appears on the lddb listing here).

 

Do you have more information about this article and when it was release ? Are you sure it was in "les années laser" ?

Because I'm searching this article but didn't find it.

 

Laserschwert said:

BTW, I'm sure "Heidy Webel" is a typo, since she's credited as "Heidi Weibel" in the German credits. Looks like she was responsible for several international dubs then.... and her name sounds pretty much German.

You are certainly right. The interviewer had to misspell the name

 

Post
#629604
Topic
Preserving "French" Original Trilogy - ANH V1.0 released - ESB in progress
Time

Yesterday, I checked the french audio of the OUT vs GOUT. The OUT audiotrack has absolutely no dynamic and the voices are too low.

I don't know if thats come from how you capture the audio or if thats so in the THX pressing, but there is someting wrong with this soundtrack. I will check my THX LD in order to see if the sound is better. But I don't will have time to do this tonight.

Post
#629436
Topic
Star Wars sound mixes
Time

Mavimao said:

- I say that because Darth Vader's voice effect in the French dub is really cheap sounding. Almost like the actor is talking through a tube.

 

That's because Lucasfilm didn't give any indications on how to do the "Vader's voice". So the french team has to find a way to recreate it.

Here is an interview of Perre Davanture, the french sound engineer who do the job : http://www.objectif-cinema.com/spip.php?article4547&artsuite=8 . He explain his work and he clearly say that Ben Burtt came for the mixing.

I made a translation :

La Gazette du doublage : You worked on the first Star Wars movie. What do you think of this first trilogy? Have you worked as a sound engineer or technical manager?

Pierre Davanture: When Michel Gast and I have watched Star Wars (1977) to prepare the dubbing, it is true that we were very impressed and immediately made special arrangements.

Knowing that mixing would be done in Paris, in stereo 6 tracks (for 70 mm release) we immediately considered the main auditorium of the SIMO de Boulogne. I contacted my friend Jean Neny who has kindly come watch the film. Before the screening, he said: "It is important that it is for you that I come to see a movie before mixing" but after the screening, he admitted that I had done well considering the film.

We decided that I'd tests rigged voices for Vader and C-3PO and that I will provide to the mix, strips mounted distorted for each character. With only a harmonizer, I distort the voice of Roger Carel for C-3PO. As the voice of Vader, we have not been able to get the U.S. production unit used, I used the harmonizer to lower the tone of voice of François Chaumette. Then to recreate the resonance effect of the mask, I thought, as I often did, to get closer to reality. We then made a chest latte (about 40x25x30 cm) inside of which was placed an omnidirectional microphone and a small 12cm speaker, mounted on a pivot so that it can be orient for best results. Our chief editor Maurice Martin prepared the french speaks tapes and Jean Neny, in the studios of Boulogne, made mixes in the presence of Ben Burtt, the sound engineer of the production.

This little box which I speak was nicknamed the "Vader box" and an artist had even drawn over the head of Vader. He remained in the auditorium of PM Productions for years but unfortunately it has disappeared ...

La Gazette du doublage : Do you have specific recommendations for Lucasfilm / Fox dubbing? Tell us about your collaboration with Jean Rouat, Jean Neny and Ben Burtt, sound engineer at Lucasfilm?

Davanture Peter: No, we did not have any recommendation of the production, since we were not even able to get the reference device used to Vader.

As director of the dubbing service in SND, I organized the work as explained above, in agreement with Michel Gast and  to the tricks about the voice. Jean Rouat recorded the dialogues. Maurice Martin assured the lyrics synchronization and dispatched bands for mixing. I just met Ben Burtt at the time of mixing. The mixing was directed by Jean Neny.

Post
#629423
Topic
Preserving "French" Original Trilogy - ANH V1.0 released - ESB in progress
Time

Thank you very much :)

I'm not sure the first video I posted was very good capture. I redone all the capture yesterday for my compare video and all the three original french crawl are perfectly sync. And in this video we can see that your crawl is a bit too fast. If you can fix that it would be great !

What do you want for a reference. A capture of the video ?

Aren't these capture enough for you http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Preserving-French-Original-Trilogy/post/577965/#TopicPost577965 ?

 

Post
#629416
Topic
Preserving "French" Original Trilogy - ANH V1.0 released - ESB in progress
Time

I made a new compare video because on the first one, the differents crawls weren't good synchronized :

https://vimeo.com/62572460

And I have add another crawl, from the officiel FOX video release (video format is 4:3).

Laserschwert, I took time to look at your crawl and it's very good. Not perfect, but better as mine ! Because I don't use AE I don't think I will be able to do a better job. Would you accept to tweak a bit your settings in order to make a perfect french crawl and sent me the video ? Eventually you can send me your AE projet and I will try to do something with it, but If you agree, I prefer that you do the job :)

What I find that is not perfect in your video :

- 'Une production Lucasfilm Limited' is too big and the timing is not perfect.

- 'Il y a bien longtemps...' looks good but the timing is not perfect

- Your crawl begin 1 frame too early. The speed of the crawl is a bit too high.

 

So if you have time and motivation to to it, I will be very grateful !
Let me know what you think about it.

Post
#629234
Topic
Preserving "French" Original Trilogy - ANH V1.0 released - ESB in progress
Time

Nice job Laserschwert !

I made a compare video of you crawl, mine, the crawl of the LD and the crawl of the VHS. Here it is :

https://vimeo.com/62543934 (pass = ot.com)

What you say about the saturation that increase seems to be right and you done a very good job to recreate it. I didn't do that.

You are working with AE right ? I'm using Apple Motion and it's not so powerful as AE.

Post
#622580
Topic
[OUT - ruLes] Original Unaltered Trilogy restored using Laserdisc editions - A New Hope (Released)
Time

I had not seen your version of ANH before starting to work on the french literals subtitles. Now that I do it, I must admit that this is really a very good job and the quality is really amazing.

Are you sur the french audio track is a Dolby surround track and not only a stereo track ?


I did 50% of the work on subtitles.