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doubleofive

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Join date
4-Mar-2008
Last activity
23-Oct-2017
Posts
12829
Web Site
http://doubleofive.wordpress.com

Post History

Post
#1121378
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
Time

Snaketibe said:

ZeeverFett said:

I would love to see Luke with his intended blue lightsaber in this Revisited version. They only made it green because of the blue sky on tatooine.

Granted George Lucas has contradicted himself many times over the years with regards to Star Wars, so who knows what the real story is, but the one I heard was that George made the saber green in Jedi to make it clear it’s a different one to the one Luke lost on Bespin.

Then it would have been scripted like that, and there wouldn’t be trailers with a blue saber.

Post
#1120663
Topic
New Plotline: Luke's Sister
Time

Yeah, I’d only make a thread dedicated to a wild change if I’d actually figured out how to pull it off convincingly.

Post
#1120436
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Almost every time travel episode uses a different method and follows a different theory about how time travel works.

Post
#1120406
Topic
After 2 years - I'm done. All 9 films FINISHED. WHO wants to watch!?
Time

The Ritty said:

Now let me ask you a question - what didn’t you like about Star Trek 12? Forget the SW nonsense we’ve back and forth’d above - this is about ST. I loved Darkness, I know a lot of people didn’t. I don’t see why a diff edit is needed. Beyond was ok but I don’t think that could even be fixed with a diff edit but what was your take on 12 and was the fan edit radically different or just a tighter, leaner animal?

The thing is, if you look up Vengeance on fanedit.org, you can find out what the editor didn’t like about the film and what changes he made to improve it for himself. That’s all people are asking for.

Post
#1120085
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

flametitan said:

I remember hearing that were deliberately designed to be ludicrous, more of a propaganda reel than literally true, but that may be apocryphal attempts to excuse it.

Sounds like a classic Legends way of keeping everything canon when no one designed anything to actually be canon.

Post
#1119899
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Warbler said:

I disagree. McCoy went back in time and altered history and thereby altered the timeline. He didn’t create a whole new one. If I went back in time and prevented the Lincoln assassination, I wouldn’t create a new timeline, I would just alter the original one.

Thank you, that’s another point I forgot.

If you went back in time to prevent the Lincoln assassination, what happens to you after it happens? Where did you come from anywhere? Your entire history has changed. And then in 2017, you wouldn’t have any reason to go back in time, hell, you might not even exist. What then?

Time travel actually creating alternate timelines prevents this from being a problem. You now live in the newly created past, from a reality where Lincoln was killed, but having created a timeline where he hasn’t.

Post
#1119895
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

We’re arguing about how time travel works in a fictional universe. The writers can make time travel work however they want. The writers of the new Star Trek movies are well on record saying they didn’t replace the Prime Timeline.

My final point: The Supernova-Powered Red Matter Black Hole is possibly closer to a quantum fissure than the thousand other ways people travel in time, possibly putting people in alternate quantum realities. It’s not like we would know any better because any time travel story is affected by what character the audience is meant to follow. It’s possible that my Star Trek 4 theory happens every time someone jumps in time, we just don’t stick with the existing timeline but jump with them into the new one. People aren’t ever saving their timeline, they just find themselves in the timelines they fixed by their own actions.

To keep it out of theory and into canon, “In A Mirror Darkly” shows that the Defiant from Tholian Web ends up in the past and in an alternate reality.

And with that, I leave the thread.

Post
#1119877
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

doubleofive said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Star Trek and Stargate both go by the premise that “anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities.” It’s just that the characters from those realities assert that their version of reality is the only one that matters (which is an actual quote from Teal’c.)

The Prime Universe does still exist. As does the universe in Yesterday’s Enterprise and the Mirror Universe. To say that Prime does not exist is to say Mirror does not exist; and the Mirror Universe’s timeline, which is wholly separate from Prime, was accessed repeatedly by Prime characters (and vice versa) during the events of Deep Space Nine, not to mention TOS and Enterprise.

Star Trek 2009 nine makes it clear that the Narada when back in time, altered history and thereby turned the prime universe into the Kelvin universe. There may be an alternate universe that is exactly the same at the prime universe, but it would only be a duplicate universe and not the prime universe. As far as I know, Discovery does not take place in an alternate universe that is a duplicate of the prime universe, it takes place in the prime universe itself.

It actually specifically makes the opposite clear. The Narada created a divergent timeline that they call “an alternate reality”. The Prime universe is still there, untouched (just without Romulus). See also: Star Trek Online, which continues in a post-Romulus Prime timeline.

No where in Star Trek 2009 does it say that the Narada went to a different universe, it just went back in time and changed history.

That’s not how time travel in Star Trek works. You should watched the TNG episode “Parallels” again. In that episode, Troi was not worried about being non-existent should Worf fix the space-time continuum; she was worried that her version of Worf, to whom she was married and had children, would not return to be with her after all was said and done.

The timelines that Worf encountered in that episode were “alternate timelines” that existed before that episode and continue to exist afterward. The Trek multiverse does not have a single line of causality in which only one version exists at any one time. I’m certain we do, here, in real life, but Star Trek is fiction. So there doesn’t have to be a real life that-doesn’t-make-sense-from-what-I-know-of-God reasoning for why Trek must have a single timeline.

Yes, “Parallels”! Perfect!

I firmly believe that events like Star Trek 4 create multiple timelines. There’s one in which the Bounty disappears and Earth is destroyed. Then there’s the one the series continues to follow, where they reappear with the whales. We just follow the timeline where the main characters happen to be at the time.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1119872
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Warbler said:

doubleofive said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Star Trek and Stargate both go by the premise that “anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities.” It’s just that the characters from those realities assert that their version of reality is the only one that matters (which is an actual quote from Teal’c.)

The Prime Universe does still exist. As does the universe in Yesterday’s Enterprise and the Mirror Universe. To say that Prime does not exist is to say Mirror does not exist; and the Mirror Universe’s timeline, which is wholly separate from Prime, was accessed repeatedly by Prime characters (and vice versa) during the events of Deep Space Nine, not to mention TOS and Enterprise.

Star Trek 2009 nine makes it clear that the Narada when back in time, altered history and thereby turned the prime universe into the Kelvin universe. There may be an alternate universe that is exactly the same at the prime universe, but it would only be a duplicate universe and not the prime universe. As far as I know, Discovery does not take place in an alternate universe that is a duplicate of the prime universe, it takes place in the prime universe itself.

It actually specifically makes the opposite clear. The Narada created a divergent timeline that they call “an alternate reality”. The Prime universe is still there, untouched (just without Romulus). See also: Star Trek Online, which continues in a post-Romulus Prime timeline.

No where in Star Trek 2009 does it say that the Narada went to a different universe, it just went back in time and changed history.

SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero’s very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed.

If the writers meant for it to wipe out the Prime timeline (which they specifically say they didn’t), they would not have had them describe it IN THE MOVIE as an alternate reality. There are enough changes in the prologue of the movie to show that it might be a completely alternate universe, like another Mirror Universe.


Me, right now

As for Discovery, it takes place in the Prime timeline. Nothing about the content of the plot has contradicted anything in the timeline that I can see. The visual changes should not be explained away in-universe, like Enterprise tried to do with the Augment Virus. This is how it looks in a show made in 2017, just as it should. As fun as the fan films are with their 100% accurate sets and makeup, that isn’t want a modern trek should be. It SHOULD be pushing the envelope for effects and prosthetics and telling stories that are relevant to today, and you know what, Discovery is doing exactly that.

I disagree. If you want it to be “how it looks in a show made in 2017”, then call it a total reboot, totally having nothing to do with the original cannon. But if you are going to put it in the original cannon, it should look like it.

Do you have this problem with Enterprise? Do you accept that the Refit Enterprise in TMP is the same ship as the original, even though every detail of her is different? How do you feel about Cardassians and Trill changing between TNG and DS9? They’re all in the Prime universe, but each one has a different spin on how things look because that’s how you make television.

Post
#1119852
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Star Trek and Stargate both go by the premise that “anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities.” It’s just that the characters from those realities assert that their version of reality is the only one that matters (which is an actual quote from Teal’c.)

The Prime Universe does still exist. As does the universe in Yesterday’s Enterprise and the Mirror Universe. To say that Prime does not exist is to say Mirror does not exist; and the Mirror Universe’s timeline, which is wholly separate from Prime, was accessed repeatedly by Prime characters (and vice versa) during the events of Deep Space Nine, not to mention TOS and Enterprise.

Star Trek 2009 nine makes it clear that the Narada when back in time, altered history and thereby turned the prime universe into the Kelvin universe. There may be an alternate universe that is exactly the same at the prime universe, but it would only be a duplicate universe and not the prime universe. As far as I know, Discovery does not take place in an alternate universe that is a duplicate of the prime universe, it takes place in the prime universe itself.

It actually specifically makes the opposite clear. The Narada created a divergent timeline that they call “an alternate reality”. The Prime universe is still there, untouched (just without Romulus). See also: Star Trek Online, which continues in a post-Romulus Prime timeline.

As for Discovery, it takes place in the Prime timeline. Nothing about the content of the plot has contradicted anything in the timeline that I can see. The visual changes should not be explained away in-universe, like Enterprise tried to do with the Augment Virus. This is how it looks in a show made in 2017, just as it should. As fun as the fan films are with their 100% accurate sets and makeup, that isn’t want a modern trek should be. It SHOULD be pushing the envelope for effects and prosthetics and telling stories that are relevant to today, and you know what, Discovery is doing exactly that.

Post
#1119769
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Tobar said:

You guys are starting to sound like the prequel apologist crowd coming up with your own head canon (ring theory) justifications for awful decisions.

We’re not trying to justify writing here, we’re justifying why some ships are different colors.

Post
#1119766
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Tobar said:

You guys are starting to sound like the prequel apologist crowd coming up with your own head canon (ring theory) justifications for awful decisions.

We’re not trying to justify writing here, we’re justifying why some ships are different colors.

Post
#1119727
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

This week’s episode had a fancy new Klingon ship identified as a D7, which is the classic TOS model. This goes with my friend’s headcanon that Star Trek has been like a historical record for future people who live in the Trek universe, so the effects are limited by the budget in-universe. Each visual change in more recent series are more representative of how they actually looked, or the recreation of this particular series took an artistic choice.

Adding this layer of fiction within the fiction helps smooth over any changes for me.

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