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ROTJ "Pre-film Training" Edit

When Luke show up in ROTJ, he seems more mature than he was in ESB. He has also built a lightsaber. This and other things seem to lend to the belief that Luke trained with Yoda prior to the events of ROTJ. However, in Jedi, officially Luke has done no training with Yoda.

“There are several things in the movie that let’s the audience know that some time has passed.
Luke’s demeanor is very different, showing a shift in his character and maturity since we last saw him. He’ built a new lightsaber. That means hes tracked down the how-to guide and all the parts n pieces. Maybe you can do that in an evening, but I’m doubting it. He’s wearing Jedi robes/outfit indicating that he’s become more involved in the Jedi ways.
Lando has infiltrated Jabbas palace to the point that he can walk around there freely and seems to have some sort of guard job. Luke & Co. knew where Han was being taken, but it’s not a place you can just walk into and do as you please. It would take time to work your way in and be accepted as part of the gang. That don’t happen overnight either.
Yoda has gotten very weak and is about to die. No signs of that last time we saw him.”

This was a hot topic of discussion in the ROTJ-Revisited thread (see ), however, Adywan has said he will not make changes to the crawl or do any restructuring. This is completely understandable, Adywan obviously wants to focus on fx improvement and changes that are more universally agreed upon (like Endor battle expansions).
However, that doesn’t mean this issue cannot be addressed in a separate fanedit!

Thanks to the following users (sorry if I forgot any):

Restructuring the first act (moving endor scenes to beginning) was discussed, but some feel that it creates as many problems as it fixes. For example, Luke is wearing his glove and he shows up late to the Rebel briefing. Still, I’ve always thought Jedi could use a good restructuring, so we might try this, even if it doesn’t go past the proof of concept phase.

The other edit is much less radical. Nhoj3 came up with the great idea of instead revising the crawl to say that Luke has been on Dagobah, but has since left. After some discussion, NeverarGreat came up with a better crawl that addressed the issue of Luke asking Yoda about his parentage. This is that crawl:

It is a time of open war. As the Rebellion gathers its strength for a decisive strike, Luke Skywalker has returned to the hidden world of Dagobah to complete his Jedi training.

Unable to face the question of his true father, he awaits word from his friends as they prepare to rescue Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt.

Little do they know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly been constructing a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star…

The plan for this edit will be to put this opening crawl at the beginning of ROTJ, as well as the removal of Luke’s line “I have a promise to keep to an old friend" now simply say “that’s right R2 we’re going to the Dagobah system”.

This post has been edited.


nhoj3 said:
While his friends have scoured the galaxy for Han Solo, Luke Skywalker has evaded Darth Vader’s relentless pursuit by continuing his Jedi training on the secret planet of Dagobah.

With Han finally discovered in the lair of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt, Luke has left his training once again to join his friends in a daring rescue attempt.

Little do they know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly been constructing a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star…

Which leads into the opening of the movie as we know it. It’s not perfect but it does address a few issues:

  1. Luke’s training DID continue after ESB and his powers have justifiably improved
  2. It better explains why the rescue team didn’t go in as a single team
  3. It ties in nicely with ESB and ROTJ dialogue of Vader’s search for Luke
  4. Replacing the word “begun” with “been” suggests that DS2 construction has been going on for longer, better justifying it’s advanced progress.
  5. It allows for Luke to separate and rejoin the fleet as depicted in the original cut

Granted it begs a few questions. Why did Luke wait to ask “the big question”. Still I think it would work, as Mark Hamill’s delivery of “IS Darth Vader my father?” sounds like a question that has been asked many times before. Some of Yoda’s response may have to be trimmed to make it work, but I really think that it’s worth considering.

I like it. In fact, I may have to concede it makes more sense than my “restructuring” idea.
About “the question”, I think the script hints that Yoda has been dodging the question, which to me can be used as evidence that Luke had tried to get an answer out of him before.

Yoda: One thing remains… Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will.
Luke: Master Yoda…is Darth Vader my father?
Yoda: Rest I need. Yes. Rest.
Luke: Yoda, I must know.
Yoda: (reluctantly) Your father he is.


Jani-wan said:

YodaFan67 said:

I only have one suggestion for this, but I think it improves the film greatly:
Start the film with Luke on Dagobah
It just makes so much more sense

Do you have friends?
How long would you let them hangin on a wall? Weeks? Month? If they survive that long at all.

Luke does not need training to face Jabba. He wasn’t ready for Vader, but he was already very good. All he needs is to recover, and come up with a plan.

BTW ain’t all rebel plans seem completely stupid?
In Rogue One, they fly into an Imperial installation with zero planning, and as a result they die. Then a whole fleet follows with zero planning, and most of them die.
In TNH they attack the Death Star with 30 fighters (lol) trying to hit a small hole.
4 ships survive. One of them is not a rebel ship.
In ESB they fight AT-ATs with snowspeeders, that have no chance to even scratch them with their lasers. If not for Luke, Rogue Squadron dies, and every single Imperial soldier goes home without a scratch.
And in ROTJ the whole Alliance is walking into a trap.
Safe to say, they are really not that good at planning.

Fair point. I guess my thinking is that it resolves the coincidence that Yoda does right when he shows up.


I only have one suggestion for this, but I think it improves the film greatly:
Start the film with Luke on Dagobah
It just makes so much more sense, and focuses the whole film around the central conflict, that of Luke vs. Vader. The scenes would progress as follow:
-“Luke has returned to Dagobah to complete his Jedi Training. Meanwhile, Lando has traveled to Tattooine to prepare to rescue Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt.”





-We would then use the “Luke’s lightsaber” deleted scene to transition to Tatooine. The scene starts with Vader walking down the hallway of the Death Star (here, presumably right after talking to the Emperor). He then walks to his meditation chamber, and communicates with Luke…
-…who is in a cave on Tatooine. This establishes for the audience that Luke has traveled from Dagobah to Tatooine.

And the rest of the film proceeds normally.

Episode IX Discussion <strong><em>Spoiler Thread</em></strong>

Okay, I’m a little late to the party here, so sorry if someone already posted something like this, but…

Why would anyone ever want to direct a star wars movie now? This is the third director they’ve kicked off a project! What director wants to submit himself to micromanaging, intense corporate scrutiny, just to be kicked out when Lucasfilm decides they’ve had enough of you?

JEDIT: Just checked, It’s actually the fourth director they’ve dropped, though two of them were partners.

This post has been edited.

The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread

ben_danger said:

I think maybe Editroid missing the point where the subjective agenda we have here (ie favouring the OT), not what the general populous has who go on IMDB. One day there might be a that edits the OT to match the PT.

I think that already happened. They were called the “Special Editions”. 😉

STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>AVAILABLE NOW</strong>

BonOrbitz said:

I’m so incredibly excited for ESB:R and was wondering if I could get a myspleen invite. I promise to seed because I’m a huge fan of his ANH:R (my definitive edition of the film that I show to those who have never seen a Star Wars film) and would want to share his incredible work with those interested. Thank you.

There’s a specific thread for requesting invites to myspleen, check that out.

Are The Prequels That Bad?

I was sick yesterday, (got my wisdom teeth out), so I watched The Phantom Menace, probably my favourtie of the prequels (not saying much). It was worse than I remember. The whole film lacks energy. It seems bored with itself. The force is bored, Obi-wan is bored, Qui-gon is in the midst of galactic turmoil but doesn’t care, Anakin’s whole life is getting turned around and all he does is shed a few alligator tears for his mom. The nemoidians don’t seem to care much either; I’m not even sure what’s at stake for them. The Jedis seem bored and uninterested as well. Anakin is “dangerous”, whatever that means, but Yoda says “eh, we’ll train him, whatever”.

Jabba the Hutt falling asleep at the podrace is basically an apt metaphor for the whole movie. It’s own characters don’t seem to care about the events taking place.

Anyway, rant over.

There was one thing that Phantom Menace had going for it–the special effects. The practical sets used in the movie look pretty good. Scenes like the podrace, Naboo, all look fantastic.

Too bad George decided to ditch it all and go full on videogame by the time Attack of the Clones rolled around.

4K restoration on Star Wars

SilverWook said:

They were either being deliberately evasive or just don’t know. We’re probably already at a point were people in their mid teens have never seen 35mm projected. It’s downhill from there.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a movie projected with film

Star Wars Ring Theory

Back when I had a Quora account (don’t ever go to that pretentious site!) I was one of the top rated answerers in the “Star Wars” category. Which was amusing, because I mostly just made up answers to EU-related questions despite never having read an EU book. My answers would get upvoted because they ended up making more sense than the crappy EU novels, haha.

Anyway, someone asked the question “Star Wars fans, what do you think of the ring theory?”

This was my answer:

"I read through the theory and it’s kind of cool. It definitely shows that Lucas is a fantastic artist.

However, it doesn’t really tell us anything new. Lucas has talked about his poetry. And the author’s intention seems to be ‘this proves that the prequels are good’.

Another user joked that Lucas was too busy with his poetry, he must have forgotten to make the movies good. That sounds about right to me!"

Here was another answer:
"Personally, I see it as a form of denial or even bargaining, to use the well-known “stages of grief.” The grief among Star Wars fans is that most would agree the prequels sucked. Many fans have attempted various versions of denial or bargaining to try to convince themselves otherwise. But it usually comes down to them trying not to accept what their hearts and souls told them: that the prequels are not good.

The biggest problem with the ring theory is that even if the theory is true, it really doesn’t matter – at all. Why? Because the prequels are still not good chapters, or stanzas, or verses, or whatever you want to call them. So when you have a bunch of bad stanzas mixed in with a bunch of good stanzas, is the poem as a whole good? In my opinion: No. In my opinion: That poem has good stanzas and maybe good lines, but does not work as a whole.

Just because something is complex doesn’t mean that it is good. Just because something is well thought-out doesn’t mean it’s good.

One last note: I also feel like the theory is trying to say that if you don’t like the prequels, then you just don’t get them because you’re not smart enough. And, frankly, that’s not a good statement to be making. Anyone with eyes and ears should be able to understand a movie. That’s the nature of filmmaking. If you fail to make a movie exciting, then the audience doesn’t care how “deep” it is. To quote Lucas in that article mentioned above, “the now has to be engaging.” Each chapter has to be engaging on its own, or it doesn’t matter how complex the overall structure is. And the problem is that several of the “now” chapters are simply not engaging."

Here is yet another:
"Consider the set of integers as a representation of the possible number of parsecs required to make the Kessel run . . . oh, wait. I have to admit, when I got this A2A I assumed I would be answering in terms of the mathematical construct.

From a storytelling perspective, this writer is simultaneously re-discovering the wheel and over-reaching. Great novels, great movies, great stories of any sort often use the technique of a repeated theme or motif that exists both in small scale and in grand scale in a self-reinforcing way. Similarly, much of film-writing analysis and theory in particular has been about constructing the multi-layered and thematically-related sets of conflict and resolution that make an instinctively-satisfying story.

It seems logical to assume that, in developing the prequel stories (that had to dovetail with the start of the original trilogy) Lucas would have considered how to get there in terms of reversing the original stories somewhat. Whether this is genius or not is debatable, but it is stretching the point to assume that there was any kind of master plan going in; recall that despite what Lucas may have said over the years, Star Wars was not “Episode IV” until the re-release and while there is plenty of documentary evidence that Lucas’ original treatment for that film was culled down from a more sprawling story, there is no indication that even the outline of the first trilogy was defined at the start. And, as usual, crediting Lucas with the “big picture” is to minimize the contributions of Lawrence Kasdan and Leigh Brackett to The Empire Strikes Back, which is so central to the overall mythos, the magic of which which was so systematically destroyed by the prequels (midichloridians, indeed).

Finally, as Sameer Ketkar so succinctly points out, it hardly matters whether some grand wheels-within-wheels approach was taken to the story, since the results were so ineffective in any case. Considering Episode 2 as a mirror to Empire is particularly egregious; that film created Darth Vader and the Empire as a villainous force for the ages, but ask any casual fan who the “bad guys” are in Attack of the Clones – the simplest possible question for an epic film – and watch the confusion on their face as they try to sort it out.

So, to directly answer the question, I would say “not much”."

The ring theory is garbage!

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