Turisu

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

...it seems that I'm forced not only to color regrading the movie, but also to capture and sync the laserdisc PCM audio... OK, if I'm forced to... (^^,)

I doubt a simple regrading will do it. If you look at this shot:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=3099&disc2=3100&cap1=28516&cap2=28532&art=full&image=4&hd_multiID=1303&action=1&lossless=#vergleich

That's not just a color timing difference; those trees on the right have had the green leaves digitally changed to bright orange.

I love the way so many fans of the THX DVD refer to it as the "correct" colour-timing. As far as I'm aware there is no source material of any kind for determining what Halloween looked like in theatres in 1978. However it seems far more likely to me that the new BD is a more accurate reflection of the original colours since the THX timing just screams revisionism and bears all the hallmarks of digital tweaking that simply would not have been possible at the time of the film's release.

The fact that the THX colours might look "better" to some people does not make them correct.

I never noticed before how the Sebastian Shaw ghost is only partially transparent. It looks like he's got this big opaque area in the middle of his body. Weirdly the Hayden ghost has this too. Did they just swap the head or something??

DoomBot said:

Another vote for the spleen

+1

If waiting for the lossless audio is the only thing delaying this release then, in my opinion, you should go ahead and release the mkv.

Anyone who is enough of an audiophile to care about having it lossless will know how to mux the track with the video if you make it available later. And of course I'm assuming you're still planning a BD release, so you could always hold that off until you have the lossless track and make it the definitive 'whole package' release.

Grain issues aside; take a look at the heart painted on Frost's armour in the screenshot. That doesn't look like fake grain or artificial sharpening to me. It's crystal clear in the BD transfer and so blurry in the HDTV that the text is difficult to read.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Aliens: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=37139

why bother to use BD and change its colors, if it has crushed blacks and clipped whites? If I'll do a [spoRv] project, I'll use the HDTV video - as dvdmike, I prefer it to BD! And it will be with LD audio soundtrack(s), of course...

I see what you mean about the blacks and whites in that particular shot but I don't think the BD should be so quickly dismissed as a source due to extra amount of fine detail over the HDTV version. Take a look at the hairs on Hicks' arm; that couldn't be replicated by simply adding a layer of fake grain.

To me the difference looks as great as the original Terminator BD vs. the remaster which (teal argument aside) everyone pretty much agrees is a far superior transfer.

Dean Cundey is a revisionist. The transfers he supervised of both Halloween and The Fog have ridiculous amounts of blue added to many of the night scenes. Fair enough if people prefer this look but there is no way Halloween was *that* blue back in 1978 as confirmed by several reports from people who have seen original prints.

I would love to see a regraded Jurassic Park though using the colours from the 2013 3D version as a source.

penguinofgreatness said:

Turisu said:

I hope you reconsider the special edition; the extra scenes kill the perfect pacing of the film and the theatrical version is Cameron's original director's cut since he had final cut of the movie on release.

Actually, for Aliens, the Special edition is Cameron's director's cut. He prefers that cut of the film and the studio forcibly created the theatrical cut. (Of course it's up to you what cut you prefer.)

In the case of Alien, the theatrical cut is the director's final cut, and the so called "director's cut" is just an alternate cut Ridley Scott did for the dvd.

Can you link to your source? I have never heard of any studio intervention in the theatrical cut of Aliens. Cameron had final cut on all of his movies during this period and has only subsequently stated that he now prefers the special edition to the theatrical cut. He did the same thing with T2 on which he also had final cut.

Thanks Harmy for the comparison pics :). I'm just curious about the colour reference for some of the shots that differ from the GOUT; for example pic (0-02-07-17) with the bright blue TIE fighters. Is that based on the 16mm print colours or something else entirely?

dvdmike said:

We have the 1080 hdtv version of aliens 

I've seen the HDTV version and it can't hold a candle to the amount of detail in the bluray transfer which would be amazing if the colour hadn't been so badly messed up.

Would love to see a spoRv version, though I hope you reconsider the special edition; the extra scenes kill the perfect pacing of the film and the theatrical version is Cameron's original director's cut since he had final cut of the movie on release.

Aliens: Teal, teal & more Teal. :(

kk650 did a regraded version but it wasn't the theatrical cut and it was just a white-balancing of the colours rather than being based on any kind of reference. I'd love to see a regraded theatrical version that restores the steely blues of the older home video releases.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

I could set the contrast lower to match better the DVD, but what if the DVD contrast was wrong?

The same argument could be made for the DVD colours not being 100% accurate. But since we know for a fact that the BD is presenting a revisionist version of the movie, the DVD is the most trustworthy source we have available for how the film originally looked.

In the absence of a theatrical reference, my preference would be for this project to match the look of the DVD as closely as possible.

The problem with the BD luma seems to be that the contrast is too high as illustrated in the third shot with the darkening of Neo's jacket and over-whiteness of the background. Would there be any way to correct or compensate for this?

In many of the shots ColourLikeRGB looks closest to the DVD reference to me but, as you say, those green beard/head shots really stand out.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

When ready, you could always demux the file and take the soundtracks you like/need... but if you are not convinced about color, take a look at this test clip (17MB, 14mbps, 10sec): SENDSPACE - you could note in HD-DVD snow starts as blue, then becoming white, then pinkish... in my project, it stays white... there are several examples, I admit I posted the worst one, but it gives you an idea... if you still prefer the HD-DVD colors, stick with it! (^^,)

Wow! That's really odd how the snow changes color like in the space of a single shot. I guess I'll have to just give it a watch through and make up my mind when it's released. :)

There seems to be a 35mm print of The Thing in Texas which gets screened periodically (last time seems to have been 2011). Too bad nobody here caught it.

Do the duplicated/missing frames you mention mean that the audio tracks will not sync up to the unaltered HD-DVD?

I ask because, in the absence of a theatrical reference, I'm not convinced by the color changes (though you've undoubtedly done a fantastic job in matching the LD colors), but I was hoping I'd be able to take the LD audio from this release with and mux with my existing HD-DVD video.

Wow. Those shots really show that the problems with the BD go far beyond just the green tint!

Really great to see the progress being made. Thanks to all involved.

Doctor M said:

Maybe my memory is shot, but I could have sworn that the BD and DVD greens were a different shade.  The BD being more yellow/lime.

I'm not seeing that in the comparisons here.

The BD changed it to the much brighter more pronounced shade of green used in the sequels. The DVD was always much more yellow in certain scenes, though it does vary.

EDIT: Forgot to say, those shots posted by You_Too look amazing. That's exactly how I'd like The Matrix BD to look. :)

This is just my view and this is, of course, your project but I'd much prefer the  regrading be based on reference material than on an opinion of what looks right or wrong. Perhaps the DVD may not match the original theatrical colors exactly but without a reference it all becomes subjective and at worse risks becoming just another 'revisionist' version of the kind that put many of us off the BR in the first place.

In short, I'd take the ColourMatch pill without hesitation. :)

I don't think it's any better. Here you can see that the HD-DVD doesn't look much better than the standard DVD. :\

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?vergleich=batman_begins

Agree with ColourMatch looking the best. Just a little too much red though in every shot. Is there any way to globally bring the red down slightly?

Also, out of interest, all the shots you've posted are scenes set within 'the matrix' which are the ones affected by the BR's green tint. Do you have any examples of what this process would do to the 'real world' scenes since the BR timing for those is pretty much the same as the DVD to start with?

Any chance you'd be willing to make the restored English 2.0 audio track available separately?

I like the results shown in the test clip. It seems to me that the green beard really stood out but that could just be because you mentioned it. Can't be sure I'd have noticed otherwise.

I'm also very much interested in these DTS releases. Please continue to make them available. :)

The Tantive III?? :D