Topper Harley

Hi all, it’s been some time. I finished the project back than but didn’t have time to get it out there.
So i just looked through all my Hard Drive and found the finished version.

It is the PHANTOM MENACE Theatrical Edition in 720p, sourced from the HD Broadcasts, with inserts of SD Parts for shots that were only in the Theatrical Cut, color corrected, so it doesn’t have the pink tint and with Theatrical Audio AC3 5.1 Sound.
I have a ProRes Version now, about 69 GB, and can render it to something smaller.

But, I have no experience in how to get it out there to the community. So maybe, if someone is interested, they can write me a pm?

Just let me know, what to do with it 😉

This is really great!
I have a love for this film in it’s european version, despite it’s flaws. I saw it on VHS in germany. I own many versions, also the US Blu-Ray and Zeist Extended DVD edit.
I just thought about combining the HD Blu-Ray sources with the german DVD (that is the european cut but only with german audio), to geht an as much as possible HD version with the european cut and english audio.
But now I stumble upon your project and I must say, it’s damn great to see theses shots scanned from film. Your restored bar-scene looks beautiful. Those scenes are for some reason in SD on the Blu-Ray Version, where whole passages are not in HD. So it’s even more great, to see it that way for the first time. Can’t wait for your efforts and am looking foreward to the HD-Version you have in mind.

I’d love to see someone comparing screenshots for AOTC, since I was hoping for the theatrical grading coming back for quite some time. It was very vivid and dared to have strong reds and blues. In the blu-ray it all went to orange and teal.
As I understand from the comments the grade is somewhere “in between” of those versions, but it would be great to see it. (I’m from germany, so no Disney+ for me right now 😉

schorman13 said:

Topper, I have the scene you're missing cut out of the digital broadcast (TB version).  I can share with you.  Also, you may want to check my preservation of the HDTV version of TPM posted on myspleen.  It has been completely resynced to the dvd version and all damaged frames corrected from other sources.  Also, I did no color correction there, so you could change it as you like.  

I also posted my avisynth scripts for creating the video, which you could alter to give the highest quality.  You would need the source files, which might be a little tough to track down, but not impossible.  For TPM, you'll just need the pal hV version and the german hdtv rip.  

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/schormans-HDTV-Star-Wars-Saga-Preservation/topic/16702/

 
Sounds interesting. I'll send you a pm.


And about the quality. The blu-ray has definitely better quality, but is made to look digital, grainless and "unfilmish", to fit in with episode II and III.
Yes, you can ad grain again and make your own version of that, like someone already made here, but I would prefere to have the option to watch the "old" telecine with grain and flmlook intact, even if it is lower quality. Because I can watch the blu-ray anyway, if I want. So it would be about preserving that version, that still looks like the film, it was scanned of from, withouth the red tint, that is definitely an error.

I already made that theatrical color corrected version from my HDTV file, but I will check the offered possibilities for better quality versions, before I share it.

If you have the shot, let me know. I would work it in, but wouldn't know right now where to find it.

The Laserdisc Audio sounds awsome and seems to have a great dynamic range. In the old discussion about Adywans Theatrical DVD it has been discussed. http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Phantom-Menace-Theatrical-Version-NTSC-DVD-ADYWAN-NOW-AVAILABLE/topic/10615/

And I wouldn't edit the Blu-Ray Audio for this versoin, because the changes are more intricate than you might think. For example before the podrace starts, there have been different shots edited for the DVD cut, so you sometime have a succession of original shot, added shot, original shot, added shot.. and that with music.. so they had to change and lenghten or significantly alter the music to fit those scenes.
Similar in corruscant where the "taxi"-scene has been added, showing them driving through the city. The music cue is different and an edited Blu-Ray or DVD-Audio wouldn't achieve the accuracy needed for a real theatrical presentation.

@StarmanSkywalker: Well, if there is an HDTV version of a theatrical broadcast, that would be it! ...then there would be no need to make this or any other version.. and it would definitely be more "true", because in this (and Adywans) version there are about 3 shots that have to be taken from Laserdisc, because they are not used in the later DVD and Blu-Ray edits. So there is a drop in quality for those shots. So a HD version with everything intact would be great.

Does anyone else heard about this version or has any clues?
Or is it just a legend...? ;)

Let's see if this works:

https://vimeo.com/109615229
Password: Topper

Here is the THX-Demo Pod Race I am talking about: I uploaded it to YouTube so you can see the colors.

(It's not the HD-Version I am working on, but ripped from the THX Demo DVD I have. Notice that this seems to be an more "original" 35mm scan, colorwise, then the actual first DVD version with the red tint)

UPDATE: Ok, forget YouTube.. I'll upload it somewhere else and let you know.

I checked the 34gb HDTV version from rutracker and it seems to be the Wookiegroomer already color corrected version of Episode 1. That one has a lot more detail and quality than my 4gb version, which is a plus, but I am not too fond of the colors, since they are a bit on the pale side.
I'll try to tweak them toward the "THX Demo PodRace" - Scene (as seen in my corrected screen-shots), but If anyone knows a link or still has the not color corrected HDTV version, please let me know. It should make a better starting point.
I'll keep you posted!

Topper

Thanx for the tip! I'm downloading it now and will check it out!

Hi All,

yes, I know, Episode I is not really worth saving. But after watching the Blu-Ray again and trying to explain to a friend that I like the “look” and “feel” of Episode I more than that of episode II and III and realising, that the blu-rays waxy cleaned look did no justice to the fact, that Episode I had still been shot and released on 35mm Film, I thought it would be great to have the option to see Episode I in the way, it was released in theaters:
Looking like 35mm film, with Yoda as a (ugly) puppet and without the prolonged Podrace Scenes that had been added for DVD but added nothing.

So I did my research here and tried to find ADYWANS Episode I Thetrical Version. After setting up usenet and stuff I didn’t know about before, I managed to download his DVD and use it as reference. (Since I wanted to have the Film in HD, I couldn’t stop here…)

I still have a copy of an pre-BluRay HD broadcast of Episode I (which is esentially the DVD in 720p) and used that for the picture.
The negatives: The frame is somewhat cropped on all sides and it has that infamous red tint all over it.
There is nothing to be done against the cropped picture, as long as I want to have the look of this 35mm scanned version, but the color can be handeled.
I tried to find ADYWANS 1080p color corrected version, that seems to go in the direction, the Blu-Rays went.
But since I didn’t find it I did my own color correcting and used as a reference the Podrace Clip I found on a THX DemoDVD I have. This PodRace there is also obviously scanned from 35mm, has no red tint and strong color, with clear yellow/browns, the way Tatooine is sopposed to look.
I manged to make the HD-Broadcast I had look exactly like it and used this correction for the whole film. And It works everywhere, since the “red tint” that pushed colors to a weird red/blue combo are in every scene about the same ammount. Now you get more pleasing yellow/green, and more strong and warm colors as in ADYWANS version or the Blu-Ray.

Here are some screenshots: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/96648/

The audio I’m using is the one ADYWAN was using, and that is a great Laserdisc DD 5.1 rip of the theatrical cut.

One thing I noticed, while editing the picture and comparing to the soundtrack: ADYWANS Thetrical Version was on the first half 2 frames and later 4 frames off sync.
So I checekd carefully every instance so the sound is now completely in sync to the laserdisc soundtrack.

So, basically I am finished with this, doing it only for my “pleasure”… or rather SW-Archive.
I have yet to export the project and make a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray…

But, since I am also often visitor to originaltrilogy.com I thought, maybe some of you may have some interest in this.

If so, then maybe I could share it with one of you, and you upload it to one of your places, where I usually don’t operate… 😉

And… I also have a question:
The HD Broadcast of Episode I is a 720p about 4gb file.
It’s not too bad, but also not really great.
Does anyone have by any chance a larger file of the HD-Broadcast (not the Blu-Ray Rip!)?
That would definitely help out to make the quality better!

All the best,

Topper

RicOlie_2 said:

...

Vader's new line replacing "Bring my shuttle!" is so much better. With the old line we were left wondering, "Where is Darth Vader going? Will the people on the Star Destroyer be sufficiently prepared for his arrival?" Now everything is clear and we don't have to worry about it anymore.

...

In ROTJ we are treated to an all new music video called "Lappy Neck" or something like that. The talent and CGI displayed in the video was so good that I think they should go back and replace Star Wars with a musical saga, replacing all puppets with CGI and adding a whole bunch of new ones who can pop out from behind trees and stuff and sing (I can see it now: Star Wars: A Musical Hope followed by The Tenor Strikes Back and Rehearsal of the Jedi and preceded by The Phantom Vocalist, Attack of the Notes, and Remix of the Sith).

...

Perhaps best of all is that we get to see the tender young Anakin Skywalker, with the appearance of our beloved protaganist from the prequel trilogy, whereas before that scene was a "Who the heck is that guy?" moment, which detracted from the emotional impact of the scene. Now we see more clearly the tender love between father and son as young Anakin sheepishly smiles at his son and all former misunderstandings fall away. What better way to end the saga?

...

 How could anyone take this serious?
Thanx, I had fun reading this! :)

Well.. so there's only left to say: "Damn you, professional scans!" and not mention it again... ;)

Hi Harmy,

I'm following your work with much enthusiasm. As a filmmaker, I'm very pleased, that you help preserve what needs to be preserved and at the same time, make a lot of people happy.

The only bit, that dissapointed me in 2.0 was the dedication to the IB print, which makes sense, to get information about the original coloring, but not so much about the original Hue and Contrast. They are photographed from the screen and it's almost impossible to get the birghtness "right" for those. You'll never have real blacks, because what is being photographed is light projected onto a white screen, so its probably going to be blown out. He even mentions this in his article.
For the new version, that's sadly what the grading looks now: Blown out... too bright.
Also for the sand scenes you loose color contrast that was there before.. now the faces, the clothes, and the sand look alike, the same baige/brown. Sadly, the BluRay looks way better now...
I liked it way more, when you trusted your own feeling.. (use the force, Harmy), like in 1.0.

Well, but since everyone seems to thing otherwise, that's just what I had to get out.. ;)

All the best!

Topper

Regarding the pictures for 2.1

I'm very happy you're adressing the green-tint in some of the shots, since the green really became quite distracting in 2.0!

Keep up the good work!

Topper

Hm... you get a 1TB Harddisc here in germany for about 80-100 Euros.

So... if about 10 people get together 10 bucks, we could make something happen for that man. How about it?

Hi Harmy, the error you're describing is very weird.
I work a lot with premiere CS4, but didn't entcounter anything like that.

But, it is to be said, that H264 is generally not a editingfriendly format and one would be better off with antything else.

But converting the whole movie into losless is a monster, that's for sure. I'm also not a fan of converting into another lossy format, since you're always reencoding and something can be lost in the process...

I'm not sure what's the way to go. How did you manage with your other versions? Were they also H264? I assume... so what changed from then, when everything worked fine?

Is it something from your setup? Or is it just a different file? How is it different from version 1.0?

If you got enough horespower and space, you could reencode the wohle movie into losless.. ore make an imagesequenz out of it... Tifs, LZW compressed.. or even JPGS with best settings (I know premiere reads tif sequenzes, but Im not sure about jpgs.) You could split the movie into a certain number of chunks, so it's not one big thing.

I would be glad to offer a little donation for a new harddrive, etc.. and maybe others too.

Best!

Topper

Harmy said:

Yes, setting delay definitely sounds like a better option than trimming.

Right. The Delay for Return is -25 Frames (I just did that) ..The other files need to be checked.

(maybe my way to find out is a bit complicated, but: I extracted one of the english stereo soundfiles of Harmys DE, then loaded it in my editing software (Premiere Pro), opend a 23,976 Project, dropped the file in it.. then I put the german file into a second track and compared the curves. I matched the curves, and through comparing where each file begins, I see how many frames delay are needed. Then I use tsmuxer to merge the soundfile with the project and can enter the precise delay).

By the way, I watched Harmys DE of ANH with the above posted german soundtrack, and it stays in sync fine.

Yes, it has the lower pitch, as it would have originally!

Yes, they are!

The only difference is in the beginning of the file.. the number of frames till the 20th century fox fanfare comes on. Other than that they match. :)

If anyone still needs it: Here are the german GOUT audios from the 2006 DVDs, with reversed speed up, so they can be synched to the NTSC GOUT or 24p editions.

I did them, to synch them with Harmys DE. But since his files are based on a HD capture, you'll have to shift them around, because they don't start at the same time.

Have fun!

http://www.krystofzlatnik.com/starwars

The new version looks perfect!

Well, the GOUT has in general a lot of noise, grain and shake over the picture, since it hasn't been cleaned up like the new editions. And so the mattpainting also shakes a lot... more ore less like the rest of the film.. but maybe even a bit more, because of the photographic progress involved in an vfx shot..

But those were the shakes, that the cleaned up GOUT tried to get rid of, because its very annoying in the GOUT DVDs.. but if you are too good in cleaning up grain and shake you end up with a very flat and "fake" looking picture..

So if you just take a still picture with no movement and edit it into the film, it might be the right shot from back then, but it does look completely wrong, more like a new computereffect.. the original matte might have looked fake in the first place, but at least it had "film"-life..
So ideally the still matte has to be matched to the appearance of the surrounding picture, so it won't feel wrong and out of place if you watch it...

And if GOUT pictures are used, I believe it's still more preferable to use a shot with movement (even if nothing "happens" in the picture), then just using a still from this shot.. or a new combination.. there has been put a lot of effort in recreating some shots, like the flight into mos eisley, but the new compositions make it a new shot, that might look like the old one, but it's something else.. maybe I'm overly critical with that, but that's just my 5 cent. ;)

Hi Harmy,
the enhanced quality of the Mos Eisley Shot is really worth it! ..
And the enhanced shaking and grain make it even more part of the picture..
There is still some kind of movement, the matte is missing in relation to the other shots, but I can't really say, what it is.. seems like the "normal" shots have also some kind of inner tiny deformations, while they are running.. maybe it could even have more shake.. but otherways, it's getting very close!

Hi Harmy,

someone should get you a better computer. There should happen some fundraising at originaltrilogy.com. I would throw in some bucks! ;)

Since I enjoy your effort very much, I have to tell you the one thing, that throws me out, when I see the edit: The mattes.

The problem is: It's always visible when you use a still picture, because suddenly there is no more movement in the picture. I thought about it.. it's very hard to give a still image the feeling, that it's part of the moving film.. little movement would be needed, that is happening in the normal shots.. maybe more grain, but I don't know if that would help.

Sometimes I am not sure, if it's always for the best looking experience to go for "as much HD as possible".. maybe it would sometimes be better to use as much "moving picture" as possible, even if it is from lower resolution..

An example is the shot at Mos Eisley. It's very obvious that it's a still frame, because it has a lot less movement, than the shots before and after..

Maybe you could try playing with some "old movie" filter for afx. Do you have some of those? Just putting a bit of film jitter on it obviously with very small ammounts could help. For the subconcious eye its not just about the grain, it's always about this those tiny shakes and movements of the picture, that come from scanning original 35mm films. Obviously in completely digital movies, there are sometimes shoots like that, but that's what this editions shouldn't look like: digital! ;)

I don't know if others see this too. Maybe I recognize it more, since I watch it enlarged over a projector.

Otherwise: Good work, and I hope the recognition for you will be rising!