I also thought that Rogue One’s score beat Force Awakens’s. More memorable/hummable going out of the cinema, at least for me.
I’m not even sure how that’s controversial. I’ve seen something in that rough order many times now.
I assumed ranking ROTJ as fifth, after both Disney movies, would incur the ire of some around here.
Yay! Not alone 😃
Controversial, but here we go again…
The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
Star Wars (1977)
Rogue One (2016)
The Force Awakens (2015)
Return of the Jedi (1983)
Revenge of the Sith (2005)
The Phantom Menace (1999)
Attack of the Clones (2002)
Ah, gotcha. Rescind my comment about it being from a possible happy ending then.
Looking at that article to which I linked, the happy ending actually involved Jyn examining the plans in some cave-like atmosphere, having escaped Scarif in an X-Wing.
So many changes…
For one, Jyn was definitely radically retooled. She’s been turned from the militant heroine who wants to “smash stormtroopers heads in” to the Casablanca-esque party, who wants nothing more to remain neutral and “ignore the Imperial flags above her.” This required entirely reshooting Saw, who originally discouraged Jyn (“What will you become?”) instead of persuading her to do the exact opposite- “Keep the dream alive.” If you ask me, her arc in the movie as-is is much more poignant.
Actually have heard from Screen Junkies and other sources that the Jyn vs TIE shot in the trailer was just created for promotional material, as others have said. In any case, that’s how LFL wants to spin it, regardless if it’s true or not.
The bulk of the changes in the climax appear to be paring it down, so they don’t need to run across the beach (largely shown in promos) to a separate building to upload the plans. Paring down was probably a direct result of reshoots expanding the space battle climax, so not to make the movie too long; as-is, Scarif battle lasts more than half an hour. Krennic/Jyn confrontation looks wobbly FX-wise, as if it was reshoots; that was probably freshly done, with dialogue altered or Krennic originally not being on top of the shield at all.
Also, agree that the Vader scene pictured above and seen in Trailer 1 was just the pre-reshoot permutation of what was ultimately shot on Mustafar, likely with a different Vader actor, judging by the fact that 2 are ultimately credited. Hopefully, it is included on the BD.
This article has interesting suggestions- http://www.slashfilm.com/early-rogue-one-scripts/
Lastly, anyone know where this shot would have come in?
No idea why Jyn is piloting alongside Cassian unless K2 is dead. Complete speculation, but could it be from an alternate happy ending that LFL claims was never shot?
Again, speculation but if Jyn was originally the very militant, angry troubled young woman; it’s possible that her scripted arc was for her to stop fighting, lest she become something horrible as Saw suggested, and consequently leave it to the heroes to save the galaxy. When Disney decided to go with a darker ending, her arc naturally had to be changed.
Anyone else agree?
He could still technically be a replicant if he was custom-made without the premature incept date. For what it’s worth, I much prefer him being human, so I’m totally fine with this.
Seen the film for the second time. Really digging it and feel there’s a lot of fanedit potential. Like or hate TFA, the problems cited against it are so inherent to the film that they can’t really be removed with a fanedit.
Rogue One, on the other hand, just has some bad scenes that can be removed, so it’s ripe for us. 😃
My suggestions-
But… instead of ending on a CGI Leia, have the Star Destroyer chase the Tantive, as per the opening shot of SW77, then cut to the deleted scene of Luke watching from the surface of Tatooine. Iris out on a close-up of Luke’s face, as he puts down the binoculars. This would require restoring the deleted scene to an acceptable level of quality, though it could be nice to bring back the “Luke’s theme” musical cue from SW77.
In any case, I feel ending on Luke would do a more clear job of concluding the film’s theme of hope- personifying it, as he is literally “A New Hope” instead of having another character simply say the word. Also, looking at bigger picture placement within the saga, it’s a nice changing of the guard from Vader, shown in close-up, to Luke, who would end the film in close-up. There’d also be an added bit of symmetry with Force Awakens, both ending on Luke.
Of course, we may have a bunch of deleted scenes to work with, as well! Though, my suspicion is that the reshot 3rd act is radically superior to the original.
I personally prefer the French Blu-Ray despite the small size. Looks more natural to me, no blown out highlights. Also, there’s some sort of filtering definitely going on with the U.S. release.
Just registered under The Aluminum Falcon and confirmed via email, awaiting administration approval. Thanks! This project really deserves its own Legacy styled site.
Been a few months since I’ve been active but have been following this with great interest. I’m in.
I think I posted in the relevant LOTR thread once upon a time, but an archival 35mm screening at MOMA of Fellowship of the Ring showed colors that were shockingly similar to the EE BD. To my eyes, the EE is a slightly misguided, quick attempt to recreate the photochemical theatrical colors on a digital basis, but the TC’s colors are far from what was seen in theaters.
Even the preview for Two Towers at the end of the print looked markedly different than the BD.
On the contrary, I think the theatrical cuts are the ones generally with pacing problems.
Fellowship of the Ring, for example, in its theatrical incarnation feels very uneven to me, with the Mines of Moria scene seeming like a climax due to the overall faster pace/momentum of the film. It is then horribly distracting when you realize there is an hour left to the film. The Extended Edition, though slower, feels far more deliberate and what was originally intended.
The Two Towers loses a lot of the emotional development, and I never particularly felt the Extended Cut to be particularly ponderous.
Return of the King is long in any incarnation, with both versions feeling like they have uneven pacing. I still prefer the Extended for the world building, but it’s a major mistake to show the Army of the Dead agree to Strider’s terms beforehand.
I’m working on a custom disc of Help, as it’s the only Beatles Blu-Ray that seems to be lackluster in quality.
Does anyone have the AMC mono audio track for me to sync up? I’m also looking for the “restored stereo track” from the MPI Laserdisc as a hi-fi, if not theatrically accurate alternative. Right now, the only special feature audio track I have is a broadcast of Help from 1978 taken from MySpleen; I assume it is mono…
For video, methinks I’m using an upscale of the MPI Open Matte DVD. Slightly color-corrected with a grain plate, it passes well enough for a 16mm print, with the transfer being dirty enough for it to be plausible. Strangely, it seems the best possible option. I considered using the BD with a grain plate, but even then the EE and motion smearing is still noticeable. The 2007 DVD is hideously compressed at times, which is ironic considering the original MPI DVD only takes up a small 3.97 GB on a DVD5!
After some googling I’m even more sure that the Rutracker DVD is definitive. It was remastered and restored in 1992 by Ron Furmanek with Apple Records. Only clips were available until recently which were on the Anthologies.
Right. I compared both the RuTracker DVD and “The Beatles - Let It Be - Uncropped 16mm Full Screen Edition” from MySpleen. It seems it’s actually the exact same source, encoded at similar bitrates with different menus! Some of the compression artifacts were exactly the same, so I suspect one to have been encoded from the other. The only distinguishable thing is the MySpleen DVD is slightly darker; I prefer the look of the RuTracker myself.
I tried IVTC’ing them to 23.976fps and get loads of artifacts, though…
On an entirely separate note, does anyone still have the audio track from the Help: AMC Restored Mono broadcast? Someone uploaded it to Demonoid awhile back. I’m trying to sync it with the open matte MPI DVD or possibly an upscale of the open matte MPI DVD with some lovely film grain 😃 Either way, it will provided a suitable alternative to the Help DVD which looks scrubbed to hell. The “restored stereo” track from the LD would also be a welcome addition.
Does the 4K version suffer from PAL-shifted audio? I’m not the best with such things as discerning pitch.
Also, was the 5.1 English track from the US BD (highest quality in world, thus far) ever properly synced to it, or does it sync already?
Bump, but why not? It’s the Beatles.
And yes, my ranking has changed since the last time I posted here.
To anyone who’s done a recent comparison, how does the RuTracker DVD compare to The Big Picture release and the Uncropped 16mm Full Screen Edition from MySpleen?
Is there a definitive version of this film yet?
Have you ever checked out Blofield’s Cat’s fanedit of Never Say Never Again, complete with EON soundtrack? It’s pretty great. (I’ve been considering an HD remaster).
It turned out that the French distributors couldn’t get the rights to release the 70mm version. That insanely expensive version, additionally, had the strangest extras: including a “signed poster,” with facsimile signatures.
Rumor had it, once upon a time, that there was going to be a silent Brazilian release of the 70mm version. Take that as you will.
Thanks for the update, but I’m no editor, just curious observer and bat fan. I previously sent a pm with some observations to TAF, but nothing too crazy or earth shattering. However, if I think of something truly inspired,I will be sure to pass it along. Cheers…
On the contrary, your observations have been genuinely invaluable, one69chev!
Sorry for the long hiatus; put simply, I’ve been on vacation! 😃
Thanks to all in this thread (and PMs) for all the various suggestions to help fix this film and refine my edit. The film has changed a fair amount from the workprint, and I do think I am going to have the Metropolis sequence in its entirety form the “Knightmare” sequence for reasons addressed in this thread.
To respond to an earlier question, I’m actually going to try to tie this edit up in the next two weeks or so. I may do a Batman v Superman: The Third Alternative- Special Edition 😃 in the far future, but, for now, I think it’s entirely possible and preferable to reach some sort of completion point for a high quality (1080p BD25 or BD50) release.
That being said, but for those testers out there who haven’t given me feedback, I need it by Wednesday or Thursday at latest to have a proper opportunity to input your suggestions in the high quality release. I understand, of course, that weekday lives can be busy, so no pressure.
Technically, in the middle of Winter Soldier, he’s not Cap… not until he dawns his stolen WWII outfit at the end.
The Man Of Steel #1-6
The Good:
- The art!!!
- Living Kents!
- Characters are mostly good
The Bad:
- Krypton’s bleakness (and the stupid “Birthing Matrix”)
- Lana Lang’s appearance to yell at Clark for ruining her life felt weird to me
- Supes has no interest in Krypton at all? Flying around for a bit and thinking is all it takes for you to not care at all about the father whose final act was saving your life?
Pretty much agree with your assessment of the comic. Far too much is invested in the ultimately irrelevant task of elaborating on Krypton. But, what it gets right is the character’s core- truly, feels like Superman put in a modern context without being a token gritty reimagining.
Rewatched The Dark Knight again. There was a time that I thought the film was damn near perfect, but, a few years on, especially after reading stuff like captainsolo’s excellent The Dark Knight review on Hi-Fi Celluloid, the flaws really do show. I still stand by The Dark Knight as a good film, if heavy-handed and bloated with no regard to pacing, but it’s portrayal of Batman is pretty rubbish.
I must say that the crucial problem I find with Nolan’s later two films, perhaps due to his brother Jonathan’s hand, is an emphasis on action and realism over motivation or psychological complexity (more the forte of Burton, particularly in Returns, where it bleeds overtly into the set design).
Observe the trilogy’s (over)fixation on Batman’s rule to not kill. It’s as if Batman can only be distinguished from his rogues (very few of whom are seen in the trilogy) if there exists a black-and-white quantifiable action (specifically, the inaction of taking a life). In the worldview of the movies, only actions seem to matter, with Batman’s psychological complexity (the altruism of his quest, the fact that it stems from survivor’s guilt) being ultimately disregarded as irrelevant.
And, this is why, Batman, as a character, seems to be largely forgettable in the latter two Nolan films. He is just an interchangeable vigilante, who happens to have a code; there’s no more bearing on the inciting incident that formed that code or how that continues to affect him to this day. This is unfortunate, as Batman has always been made most interesting by his psychology.
I’d go so far as to say, and this may be controversial with some folks: my favorite live-action portrayal of Batman is Ben Affleck! BVS, a movie which I am currently furiously fan-editing, is such a bizarre movie to me because it has the worst cinematic rendition of Superman but the best (IMHO) rendition of Batman.
While I do wish that Batman didn’t kill, a fact mitigated in my fanedit among others (shameless plug), the rest of Ben Affleck’s portrayal is so spot on. Batman’s a cynical ass with a sense of gallows humor, who 1) is actively haunted by the death of his parents, in dialogue and performance; 2) does actually detective-y things; and 3) will NEVER EVER give up in his quest, even if it means confronting a nigh-invincible alien! This Batman is enhanced by the baggage of the loss of a sidekick.
Though Michael Keaton and Val Kilmer acquitted themselves far more admirably than Bale, they never really completely felt like comic book Batman in the way that the current incarnation does. Both those two incarnations, I might add, also had the problem of wantonly killing people.
BVS was by no means a good movie, but, as Conroy has likely voiced the Caped Crusader for the final time with The Killing Joke, the future of live-action Batman has never looked brighter. I have a feeling that Ben Affleck will do remarkably in his solo outing, judging by his apparent understanding of the character; I credit him far more than I do Snyder, noting that out of the main three heroes in BVS, only Batman really leaped off the page to the silver screen to me.
You’ve given me an idea (that I hope Aluminum will consider since I have NO editing skill), what if instead of showing the last part of Bruce in Metropolis saving the girl as the nightmare, we’re left wondering why Bruce hates Superman up until he has that whole opening sequence as a PTSD nightmare.
Funny you should say that. That’s how I had the sequence edited in my earlier version of this edit: Man of Tomorrow. Many things in that cut didn’t work, but moving the whole thing back did. I daresay it works better than keeping it intact in the beginning.
Though I’m generally not a fan of withholding a character’s motivation for such a long duration of time, I think it is at least partially justified because Batman doesn’t ACT on this motivation until after the dream sequence. I remember finding it horribly distracting in the cinemas to find that after the traumatic Metropolis ground sequence, Batman was on a completely unrelated case, chasing after a dirty bomb. This way, we get hints of it (dialogues with Clark and Alfred) before it being completely revealed.
This also has the wonderful bonus effect of us seeing Batman before the grown Bruce Wayne and also makes it clearer that the narrative is focusing on Clark/Superman as its main character.
So, consider me a BIG FAN of this idea! 😄
Another idea we could add to this is instead of having him save the little girl, we see the large metal thing (don’t remember what it’s called) coming towards the screen and that being what abrubtly wakes Bruce up from the nightmare, with the implication being that the little girl was killed in front of him, which gives him even MORE hate towards Superman.
An interesting thought, but the problem is that it removes Bruce staring furiously at Superman above, which I think is an essential moment.
That all being said, I was actually trying to go with the idea that the girl may have died for the version of the edit currently circulating (the large metal beam cuts off the Metropolis sequence in the beginning and then the conversation with the girl only is in the dream). Because we only see the girl saved in Bruce’s dream, it was ambiguous whether or not he managed to save her in real life. All that is clear, being a dream, is that Bruce clearly hates Superman.
But, of course, I don’t think the current edit did a good enough job of establishing it.
I’m moving towards your first suggestion of pushing the entire Metropolis flashback until later, but having it where it was originally and just cutting the dream sequence (as Just DC suggested) is another option.
Again, would love to hear more thoughts on this, especially if there were any testers who thought the edit as-is worked.