Star Wars Purist

Darth Bizarro said:

I feel often that I'm siting in an odd place with my fandom because I grew up during the 90s when Star Wars was making it's come back and the prequels came out when I was in junior high and high school.  I had the original versions on VHS and my friend down the street had the special editions, and I use to always consider those versions to be some sacred treasure because I couldn't watch those whenever I wanted.  I remember running out and spending my allowance to buy the junior novelization of Phantom Menace and reading through it before the movie was released because I was to excited.  In fact, me and my friends actually went to see Revenge of the Sith on the same evening we had our last day of school.  So for me growing up, it was the classic version, the special editions, and the prequels that informed my youth.  I have a sense of nostalgia for both "old" and "new" Star Wars that I'll never be able to break.  As a gamer too, my favorite Star Wars games were the classic Super Star Wars games for SNES and the N64 era Shadows of the Empire, Rogue Squadron, Episode 1 Racer, and Battle for Naboo.  Both versions of Star Wars are there, and they are never going away, and I never want them to.

I have good memories of seeing Revenge of the Sith about 50 times during the Summer it came out too, and it was, undoubtedly, the best of the Prequels and does have its good moments.  Furthermore, Episode I did have some spectacular video games released with it.  Especially the arcade pod-racer game which I forget the name of.  However, as a child, the originals were always my favorites, and were never questioned as the pinnacles of cinematic entertainment in my youth.  I thought the Episode I film was really weird and unusual at the time, and when I first saw it at 6 I didn't really think it was "real" (as in part of the canon storyline), more like an alternate past or kid's movie showing a "nice little boy Darth Vader".  For Episode II, at that point I...well "awakened" so to say and found Natalie Portman/Padme to be quite...palatable... 

I genuinely loved ROTS, but the excessive CGI, awful Grevious, and the bad acting from old Hayden just doesn't work for me.  Does it lead up well to the original 1977 Star Wars...no.  Do I imagine Hayden beneath the helmet in the classic movies? Heck no.  I tried...but it just isn't there.  The OT and the PT are totally separate vehicles...never intertwining very well.  Sadly, Lucas thinks they do and tries to refit the OT to fit in with the much lesser PT. Sorry, but that's just not going to flow for me! 

How many years after 0 BBY/ABY does it take place? Jeni was born in 4 ABY and Han died in 8 ABY, but what is the "present" time-frame for the story?  

I apologize for getting the ending to the 97 SE of ROTJ wrong.  I confused that with the 04 SE ending (which is horrific of course).  

I actually don't mind the Victory Celebration song at all (and actually kind of enjoy it), it's just weird in the context of the ending scene and I prefer Yub Nub for it. 

Interesting.  Are there any discs out there simply of "scans" of the original films (as in film films) for each movie? Even if they're of terrible quality, that would interest me greatly.   

walking_carpet said:

Darth Bizarro said: I'll show them 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6. 

 your kids may end up thinking the tusken raiders were trying to settle some score with anaklin by going after luke.

Haha!!  I'm surprised Lucasfilm hasn't adopted that as a canonical explanation for their attack.  Btw, if you ARE going to accept the prequels, Bizarro, your order is the best way to do it, and is what I followed for a while.  It works pretty well for what it is, I must admit.  

I'm not as "radical" as I sound.  Star Wars may be a simple series of films of "space wizards" and adventure, but they are more than what you make them out to be as well.  The original films are cultural touchstones.  Amazing classics in American cinema.  Have they not inspired countless people?  Is the OT not representative of long standing culturally induced elements of American culture? Doesn't the "Evil Empire" and its regression from the great Old Republic just ring of the disillusionment Americans generally felt with their government in the late 70s?  Isn't it notable as being America's modern "fairy tale" and myth?  I can't see how it isn't of that regard.  I definitely did hyperbolize and make some faulty analogies by comparing them to the mythic works of Ancient Greece and Rome, which were accepted as religious dogma and were much more universally read and accepted in their respective societies and eras.  However, one cannot underestimate the influence, impact, and sheer meaning of the Star Wars Trilogy, and honestly, I kind of find your dismissal to be slightly disturbing! 

Anyway, what you said about Star Trek is totally different.  Star Trek: The Original Series has not been re-evaluated or re-assessed in any major ways against it's original continuity or meaning.  People don't retroactively call the female officers, such as Uhura, of TOS "Sir" as the Rick Berman era shows will address the female officers.  No current sources do this.  The only thing really close to a ret-con with Star Trek is the whole "Trouble with Klingons" and the retroactive explanation given as to the changed appearance in Enterprise.  Also the later Trek shows, besides TNG and DS9, have in no way, shape, or form entered pop culture in any major degree, and despite its' former great success, DS9 rarely finds itself parodied or mentioned on Family Guy or South Park, for example.  Also, Star Trek, (not counting the more recent "remastering") hasn't seen any major changes against it, and even the new (amazing) Blu-Ray sets include BOTH the original broadcast and CGI remastered versions of each episode...both in VERY high quality...and with the mono mix.  Viacom/Paramount. etc is in no way keeping the original purity of the original Star Trek away from the public.  Heck.  The versions up on Hulu and the franchise's official website are of the original versions!  In other words...it's not the same thing.  Voyager and any later lackluster shows don't change the old ways.  Things aren't canonically explained by being caused by the Borg or the Q (The Squire of Gothos won't even officially be said to be a Q), so the Gene Roddenberry and Gene Coon era of Star Trek remains almost entirely separate from the Rick Berman and JJ Abrams eras of Trek. 

Lucas "prequelizes" the originals seemingly as much as possible with each chance he gets.  Characters are now spoken of in their prequel names more than not ("Darth Sidious" rather than The Emperor), prequel plot devices are frequently in discussion with respect to the originals, and of course so much of the original films are changed beyond recognition.  

I don't want a huge idealistic crusade, but I do want something to be done to preserve these beloved films and to not have to deal with all the mediocre prequel crap now drowning out the integrity of the originals.  

There was once a “More Civilized Age”…a time when the Star Wars Trilogy was like The Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Aeneid _all together _to America’s cultural mythology.  Few could criticize it negatively without well-deserved backlash.  A time when _Star War_s seemingly had the very world by its earth.

Now Star Wars has become the dark backstory the Original Trilogy depicts.  What was once a great and noble science-fantasy series (ala “The Old Republic”) has become a mutated, altered, overly computer-generated, unadulterated mess (ala “The Dark Times”/“The Empire”).  The man who was once the hero of fanboys the world over (ala “Anakin”) has now become our worst nemesis (“Vader”).  It almost seems as if the black-haired, bearded, thick-bespectacled, plaid-shirted young film-maker no longer exists, and has seemed to have been utterly devoured by a turkey-necked, evil mind, surrounded by his “Yes-Men” cronies.  (To be more exact, and geeky, Lucas is now more like how Alan Dean Foster described The Emperor in the Star Wars novelization…which was oddly ascribed to none other than…we all know who!).

Today, it is a struggle trying to find a Star Wars discussion not all about “Why Luke doesn’t have the Padawan haircut in Episode V” or “Why Yoda isn’t CGI in the OT yet” or “How many midi-chlorians did Obi-Wan have…”.  Everything is being ret-conned, re-assessed, and re-thought in favor of the horrendously out of place Prequels.  Children now see Episode I as their first taste of Star Wars and grow up with Ani Skyguy and Ahsoka (I won’t even bother to learn how to spell that name correctly).  I thank the Force each and everyday that I lost my Star Wars “virginity” to the 1995 Faces VHS Trilogy set.  It wasn’t ideal, in hindsight, in comparison to the 93 Laserdiscs or the 92 VHS sets or, of course, the original theatrical prints…but it was Star Wars as it was, more or less, (and I couldn’t even read when I first saw them (I was 3) so I missed the '81 crawl!).

I remember watching Episode I when I was 6 and just being dumbfounded.  It wasn’t right.  Anakin here didn’t seem to be leading up to the smiling, grandfatherly ghost at the end of Return of the Jedi.  No.  Jar-Jar wasn’t right either, and Obi-Wan wasn’t leading up to the Sir Alec Guinness Obi-Wan I knew and admired.  It was wrong.  Very Wrong.  I was briefly swindled by Episodes II and III, but after watching them all in order…I realized it…doesn’t work, and I grew up more and with each passing re-watching of the O-OT I hated the Prequels even more.

And the 2004 DVDs were horrendous.  They angered me so much.  Little cartoon rats and giant dewbacks everywhere on what was supposed to be a quiet, “used future”.  Hell.  That one dewback totally covers up a good portion of one of the most famous scenes in cinematic history…the Jedi Mind-Trick.  And when I lost the good old Original Emperor and the old Anakin…I lost it (among the plethora of other injurious alterations).

Then came the CGI Clone Wars film and series, and having to hear the old movies and continuity re-crafted into the new terrible Star Wars.  “In Episode IV, watch Luke Skywalker, son of Anakin and Padme, face-off against the now-evil Anakin, Darth Vader, and save his sister from certain destruction from Darth Sidious’s minions!”…I read doggerel such as this all too often (sans this wonderful website).

What can we do to more successfully combat against the Evil Empire that is Lucasfilm and the new face of the Star Wars franchise?

In my opinion…We must spread the O-OT and the knowledge of the horrific changes to those who we know and love…and even to those we dislike!  We should start our children out on Star Wars, in as close to its 1977 original theatrical experience as possible, and then follow up on Empire and Jedi, each also emulated as close to their original experiences as possible.

If we can, we should try to ignore the prequels…at all means.  Talk of them negatively.  As excuses to cash in even further…as “after the fact” additions to the franchise…movies mostly of the worst quality one can imagine.  Laugh them off, scoff them, and IGNORE them from any serious Star Wars fandom.

And, more radically.  Could we try to get Lucas’s attention even more?  Could we try to attract the attention of pop culture?  I hear shows like Chuck Lorre’s Big Bang Theory (I haven’t ever seen it) reference Wars and Trek all the time. Do they ever make jokes against Lucas and the changes, scoff against the Prequels?  Or do they just ignore the Prequels and only speak of the OT? If not could we try and ask the show-runners to have the geeky characters speak like…us?  (haha).  One of the most beautiful things in my life was seeing the Family Guy specials on Star Wars.  Say what you will about the show, (I mostly prefer the pre-cancellation episodes…yadda yadda yadda and detest the excessive cut-away gags…) but Seth McFarlane is a tried and true O-OT fan.  He had Yub-Nub at the end of the ROTJ parody! He had the characters scoff at the idea of parodying the Prequels!  Is Family Guy not the current “King” (in terms of stature) of Pop-Culture (mocking and making it)? This is a good sign!  The Robot Chicken specials, oddly supported by Lucas, mostly dealt with the OT, and hilariously spoofed the bad direction the franchise took and Jar-Jar’s irksome ways…We need more of this!

We are all trying hard.  But we need to collectively gather and try even **HARDER.  **Do we want Star Wars to stay the joke it is now?  The “CGI Kid’s Crap” so many ignorant people tell me I “love”.  NO.  I do not want this.  I want Star Wars in its truest and purest form to remain the touchstone to our culture…the Greek Myths to our Modern Rome…Help it before it becomes our mockery…our greatest degradation.

Could we not redeem George Lucas?  Could he not be turned?  His greatest friend, Steven Spielberg, is speaking against his own former alterations and has even directly criticized what his boy George has done!  Matt Stone and Trey Parker weren’t so right about him after all!  It COULD be done.

But we must help, and do something about it if it doesn’t.

P.S.

I apologize for being such a purist fanboy.  That is all.

Hello, I’ve been on this wonderful forum for a couple of months now, and I have contributed a bit to discussions and all and have spent a ton of time reading about the amazing work that Harmy, Adywan, and so many others have done to release high quality versions of the Original, Theatrical versions of the Star Wars Trilogy.

I was raised on the 1995 “Faces” VHS set as a child, and I was terribly and awfully swindled by the 2004 Special Ed. DVDs as a young teenager and then somewhat returned to the true versions with the 2006 GOUT DVDs.  But as we all know, the 2006 GOUT discs are of high quality by no means and in an age of Blu-Ray HD transfers and so on, the GOUT discs are utterly unacceptable.

After all of this reading, I have realized that there are a plethora of variations that can be seen (and heard) in an OOT Star Wars film.  There are differences in color timing, how close the version is to the original print, 35 mm vs. 70 mm, and so on and so forth.

Also…I have never had the pleasure of hearing the mono mix of Star Wars. I love the mono mixes of a lot of my favorite 1960s rock LPs, so I’m sure the mono mix of my favorite movie must be interesting as well! (from what i hear about it, it is!).  Since we now have Blu-Rays, which feature multiple audio mixes and tracks (well DVDs do too, admittedly), I would love to have the movies sport several different audio tracks.  I saw somebody out there who had the original stereo, the original mono, the 93 mix, the 95 Faces mix, and so on all there on the disc for Star Wars for instance.  I would LOVE this!

I am NOT interested in the 97, 04, or 11 Special Editions.  I am NOT interested in seeing "Episode IV: A New Hope" or the post-1981 crawl on what is Star Wars.  I want to see the films as close to their theatrical experiences as possible, even if there are blemishes and all…I would just like THAT in it’s highest quality!

Furthermore, a HUGE point for me is the cover art.  The GOUT discs had horrendous cover art.  Besides the retroactive Episode Numbering and “A New Hope”, photo-shopping was far too present (especially on Star Wars) and the original, unique poster artwork and special logos originally marketed with each film…weren’t used…and it continues like that today with George’s new releases sadly.

I understand that most of you offer downloads and so on for all of this or printed out cover artwork, but I am somewhat technically/computer “illiterate”, so I would like to avoid any…excessive download entanglements…no questions asked! 😃

In bullet points here’s what I’m generally looking for

1.) Great theatrical versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi **as close to their original theatrical versions and “experiences” as humanly possible.  **

2.) Preferably  on Blu-Ray disc.  I am a Blu-Ray fanatic.  However, if the best/better version is on DVD, then I will go for that.

3.) Multiple Audio Versions -  I want the option to see Star Wars in mono or in stereo…the 35 mm vs. 70 mm differences…all of that!

4.) GREAT cover art.  Star Wars billed as _Star Wars.  The Empire Strikes Back as The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi…_etc.  I would love the original film title logos there/poster art and all that! Some of you wizards have designed wonders like this, and they make me _salivate.  _

5.) **Try and make it as easy as possible for ****me to put everything together. **

Thank You, Everyone.  I am only 19 years old.  I never got to see Star Wars the way it was meant to be seen on the big screen back in its glory.  I want to have something (close) to that experience!

May the Force be with all of you!

(and my eternal fan-boy gratitude to those who help!)

Top Tier: 

I cherish the Thrawn Trilogy and personally consider it as the "de facto" Sequel Trilogy.  I also love the "Dark Empire" Trilogy and generally consider that something like "Episodes X-XII", or like an alternate sequel trilogy. Most of the Marvel and "Classic" daily comics also are almost constantly in my EU thoughts.  

Second Tier:

Splinter of the Mind's Eye (It's very great, but Vader's dialogue is pretty lame: "Girl-Woman")...It's greatest strength, and greatest flaw, is it's 1970s "Pre-ESB" continuity limitations, which renders it both charming and retroactively strange.  The Han Solo books by Brian Daley are very adventurous and very fun, and I consider them perfectly part of canon and extremely enjoyable, yet sometimes they feel a bit atypical from Star Wars in general.  Most of what I read from the pre-PT EU falls under the Second Tier, IMO.  Of the PT and after era, I like the Dark Horse comics, and the Legacy series (despite its Prequelizations...which I tend to ignore...). Basically, these are very enjoyable books yet they are flawed with odd characterizations of beloved characters (everyone seems to get Luke slightly off...he's either a dumb-witted, wide-eyed formboy, or a godly Kenobi on steroids) or have elements that, to me, are somewhat "fishy" for what I would personally consider canon and all.  For example, I highly enjoyed "Shadows of the Empire" and loved Xixor and all that, BUT it was noticeably lame to bring in a "Han-clone" (accept it Dash fans! haha) and for the unique time in which it was set, it failed to deliver the one HUGE thing I always wondered about in between ESB and ROTJ...as in...how did Luke finally become a full Jedi in that time span, since he definitely didn't see Yoda again before his death in ROTJ and he didn't seem to have seen Kenobi's ghost (according to the book)...what did he do to become a Jedi?!? Who made him one? Furthermore...I hated how they passed off Luke's clothing in ROTJ as simply something either Lando or Dash gave him once they went to Coruscant.  Come on...we all know that was supposed to have been the Jedi warrior garb from their heyday... Things like these get odd, and there are way too many Post-ROTJ books from the 90s.  Wow! 

Third Tier:

The "Legacy of the Force", "Fate of the Jedi" 9 part book series, and all.  I hate to say it, but I enjoyed a good deal of "LOTF", mostly because I imagined the whole thing as a series of "made for TV" movies and since they brought back Lumiya and were atleast entertaining.  The death of Mara-Jade, the re-hashing of...the entire film saga, the "here and there" prequelisms, and Karen Travis....knocked that series down quite a bit.  Nonetheless, when I did read them all, I was almost always entertained.  FOTJ...I haven't read much of that, and I wonder if its any better (although my bet is on worse).  Also, the "cream of the cream of the crop" (yes not a typo)...I mean the ultimate BEST of the PT books come out here, and, in my mind, the best of those are two works that come AFTER ROTS, which are "The Rise of Darth Vader" (or whatever that book was called) and the recent graphic novel "Darth Vader and the Lost Command".  The former was very good (but it still had prequel shit in there) and the second had a very interesting similar "Vader in the beginning" setting, despite the strange animation and prequelisms from here to eternity.  

Complete and Utter Trash: 

The "Clone Wars" new TV series movie novelization and other similar books.  Karen Travis's books outside of the (only slightly) palatable one's she did for LOTF.  Almost any Prequel era book.  Even ones I once enjoyed, like "Labyrinth of Evil" and "Dark Rendezvous" are unbearable to me now with how much I completely detest the Prequels now.  Kids and Junior novels are in the same boat.  "The Glove of Darth Vader"/"Jedi Prince" had some unique drawings and are so "retro" (relatively speaking) and so NON-prequelized I will give them a slight pass! 

1990osu said:

I just watched these versions.

This is going to be controversial, but I think that you best get the feeling of the original movies by watching the pre-1993 movies.  They were lifted directly off of finished prints, so the colors are right and there is grain where it should be.  The sound and music and effects aren't mixed any differently unlike 1993.  The picture is really, really sharp because the whole movie didn't undergo a smearing process (like 1993 versions).

I said pan-and-scan (obviously widescreen would be ideal) because the resolution of VHS/LD isn't great and you can actually watch the actor's performances and see this beautiful lighting and color up close. 

The biggest difference I noticed besides the sound (which is actually mixed quite a bit different) is that there is a lot of contrast in the picture.  There are shadows and areas of hard light.  This "hard light", hard contrast look typical of movies back then was washed out of all of the newer versions, which look sanitized and wishy-washy.

To be fair, they do this with most remasterings of old movies too.  But I love the sharp, high contrast, hard light look.  And if you look at screenshots from theatrical prints of the originals, they will show you the same thing. 

I don't know- I just got the feeling that I was watching the actual movie as it was, far stronger with these editions.

Interesting.  But then you still have to deal with Star Wars having the 1981 opening crawl, to be fair.  I wouldn't mind watching these versions.  Are there bootlegs with them on DVD/Blu Ray out somewhere? 

Well, even though I do think the entire OT rocks, it's very refreshing to see people who recognize the original Star Wars for the greatness that it really is and who doesn't gush over Empire endlessly and overzealously...and this is coming from an ESB super fan...but it is by no means this "sequel that tops the original" that everyone makes it out to be.  It's not The Dark Knight. 

Probably? Even his books about the Prequel era are pretty good! I can't imagine how great they would have been had he been able to craft his own backstory! He would have most likely written exceptionally about Anakin/Vader and the Old Republic...I feel like he was interested in that era a lot anyway (then George spoiled it...)

msycamore said:

Well said, if you ask Lucas himself the original Star Wars belongs in a locked cellar or in the trash, the film haven't even been seen in its true light by audiences in that form without its bagage since '79. Imagine if another classic had been treated in the same way as Star Wars... Casablanca, Citizen kane, The Godfather to name a few. It doesn't really help that the American Film Institute have ranked it as the 13th most important American film ever made when the most commonly viewed image of it is: "It's a kids movie". I sometimes wonder how people/media would react if The Wizard of Oz were updated every five years and the original were only available as VHS quality bonus material. The situation is disgusting, these films were created to be seen and they have been locked away far too long.

Almost anyone who knows of the changes and all wants to go back to the original versions. They're just too difficult to get, even the 2006 GOUT DVDs. It's a damn shame. These films need to be officially released on Blu-Ray with the theatrical versions, with all the old audio mixes available to choose from (VERY possible on Blu-Ray) and decent cover art that isn't photo-shopped and that titles the movies by their originally released and marketed titles. 

Come on George. I think people will get that Star Wars is the fourth one in your series...even if they're tasteless enough to even consider your prequel abominations as part of the story.

Honestly, as much as I love Empire and Return of the Jedi and so much of the old EU, the original Star Wars film, the old Marvel comics, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and the old daily Archie Goodwin comics really, to me, are just impeccably fun.  The original movie is just so swash-buckling and fun, while at the same time it has a dark and mysterious backstory and is very much grounded in reality despite being a shameless fairy tale in space...

This leads me to my other thought.  The original Star Wars, much like the first printings of The Hobbit (before LOTR and the Gollum scene change), is a fairy tale.  Empire and Jedi are much more "dark" and "epic", and deal so much with darkness, notions of redemption, seduction towards evil. etc that they are much more "epic" than anything the original film and the pre-ESB "EU" offered.  The same with how LOTR is so much more grave, embellished, and grand than The Hobbit which is such a "Wake up common people unaccustomed to adventure and excitement! Let's go get some treasure and have a jolly old time!" type of book.  However, none of these changes are that bad.  Empire and Jedi being much more "grand" and "epic" than Star Wars isn't a problem.  The same with LOTR to the Hobbit.  What is a problem is when the later story has to ret-con that of the original to make it fit in with the dark, grand scheme of the entire series which it spawned.  Empire and Jedi did it a bit to Star Wars...and then the Prequels made the entire Star Wars franchise all about prophecies, virgin birth, fate and fulfillment, and quasi-scientific explanations for EVERYTHING...except for the prophecies and fate....(also Tolkien shouldn't have changed the Gollum scene in The Hobbit...it just doesn't fit the original story...although that's still so much less of an atrocity to the Special Ed. changes to the OT films).  

Honestly, I think the re-titling of the original Star Wars has only served to diminish it's impact and role as the true first film of the series.  My big pet peeve as a Star Wars fan is to have to hear it be called Episode IV: A New Hope, or when people call it "the fourth one" .  No.  This movie is STAR WARS.  

Should we go back and change the title of every movie that is eponymous with the franchise which it spawned?  Should we call the 1968 Planet of the Apes something else? Should we do the same for the 1984 Terminator?  No!

I never understood why George had to change the Episode title.  I find it so much more appropriate and quaint (in a good way) to see just STAR WARS in the opening crawl, and The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi shouldn't have had the episode titles there to begin with.  I never understood why they didn't just have their unique "logos" in the crawls (we should all know the famous-yet never used anymore-logos for Empire and Jedi).  But I never get too mad about that, since the original versions had the episode numbers anyway.  

What really ticks me off is how all of these movies are now referred to by their episode numbers almost exclusively.  "5 is the Best Star Wars, Episode VI is okay, A New Hope is so old!"...I hear "jargon" like this all the time.  Even with the episode titles in Empire and Jedi, the films were only ever marketed, spoken of, or known as...The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.  No "Episode V" or "Episode VI" this...

Now for the Prequels, they were released, marketed, and spoken of by Episode Number in the first place, so whatever (plus they're really awful movies that I don't even consider part of the series "true" continuity, at least from my point of view).  

But if you ask me, Episode IV: A New Hope belongs no where in what is the beautifully perfect original Star Wars film.  And Episode V and VI only belong in the crawls for The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, not in their titles or any discussion concerning them.  

CWBorne said:

I'm curious if one could split the difference between the original concept of Father Skywalker and the ESB twist and reveal that Vader did kill Luke's father... but only after the Skywalker himself was seduced to the dark side and tried to destroy Vader via a trap to prove his own loyalty to Palpatine. Darth wins and feeling the power of the dark side, turns and becomes the Emperor's new apprentice. Thus Kenobi inverted the truth; Darth only killed Luke's father when the latter betrayed him. 

Of course there's also the alternate story point of Kenobi killing Luke's father which is what most people (other than Lucas, Kasdan, Kershner, Hamill, and James Earl Jones) thought because that's what was filmed on set.

Your first point of "splitting the difference" is pretty interesting really. However, Obi-Wan wasn't ever intended to be the murderer of "Tan"/Anakin Skywalker...but nonetheless the ESB twist forever made his backstory recollections to Luke complete and utter "lies"...

Consider this "What If..." 

The Empire Strikes Back hits theatres in 1980, and a certain very famous scene goes something more like this...

Vader: "Obi-Wan never told you about your father did he?" 

Luke: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him!" 

...

Vader: Perhaps I did, but only for my survival. I was not after your father, Skywalker, but was rather seeking an escape from the confines of the cruel Jedi Order. Your father pushed Obi-Wan to hunt me down, and the two of them duelled me over a nuclear reactor, where I fell, but not before slaying the esteemed Skywalker, who wanted my death...who was jealous of my growing power. I was just a boy then, Luke. A boy like you, but they wanted me dead.

Luke: It's not true! It's impossible! Obi-Wan is a great man! He and my father were great Jedi Knights...they fought in the Clone Wars...they...

Vader: Held me back. And were as unwise as they were old. Now they are the ones who are gone, and I rule the Galaxy...or at least I will, once I slay my...new master, as I did to my old teacher. Join me, and we can rule the Galaxy as the two last surviving users of the Force...once we have rid the Galaxy of the Emperor. 

Luke: I took an OATH...to the Jedi and to the Republic

(Luke falls down the shaft...realizing Vader offers nothing but evil ambition, and goals of galactic domination...the ways of the Dark Side...) 

My above "what if" scene incorporates elements from an early script treatment for ESB, where Vader was not Luke's father and where Luke met his dad's spirit earlier on Dagobah with Yoda, where he was sworn in on the Oath of the Jedi. 

Would ESB still be a great film without its thrillingly great twist ending? Would it have changed the course of Star Wars for the better or worse? Would it have made it so the original Star Wars was let ret-conned? Or would it have made for a thinner saga? 

(Please excuse the bad dialogue in my "what if" script lol) 

Asaki said:

SilverWook said:

There were Special Edition adaptations put out by Dark Horse.

http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/46-518/Star-Wars-A-New-Hope---The-Special-Edition-TPB

They did do reprints of the Marvels, but with new duller coloring than the originals.

Weird. That looks like the books I have, but it doesn't sound like the books I have.

I already mentioned the reprint info on the inside flap, and the credits are completely different (unless Episode IV just happened to have completely different credits from the other two).

"Script: Archie Goodwin
Pencils & Inks: Al Williamson, Carlos Garzon
Colors: Gary Porter, Perry McNamee
Lettering: Ed King
Cover Art: Greg & Tim Hildebrandt"

Neat, I didn't know pressing shift+return bypassed the extra
.

Also, I'm skimming through real quick, and I don't see any SE changes in Jedi. Even the Sarlacc looks like it's supposed to, no beak or anything.

LOL.  I love how the description says the 97 Jabba scene is amazing...when it's one of the worst CGI scenes I've ever seen in my entire life! 

Bingowings said:

The Jedi are a weird bunch.

Ben "fibber" Kenobi.

Qui-Gon "child catcher" Jinn.

Mace "Shaft" Windu.

Iamaho "sits in the background not saying anything for one episode" Mosexual.

Kit "mild green grinning lipped squid' Fisto.

Yoda is the only Jedi worth mentioning and only in his older, wiser, dignified state. 

Kenobi is only a "fibber" because George made him so...ret-cons have their consequences! 

Yes! The Humor can be strong in this one....

darth_ender said:

TV's Frink said:

No, you shouldn't. Also, you should go outside more, and you should call your Mom more than once a month, even though she says you don't have to.

The best response to Frink's joke is probably something more like this:

TV's Frink, I was at your mom's last night.  She told me the that her you don't even call her that often.  But don't you worry; I was there to comfort her.

He loves that sort of thing ;)

Of course he does! He films the whole thing! 

Then George Lucas uses CGI to make the night's events look pretty!

The Marvel interpretation of the young Ben Kenobi was pretty ripped too!

darth_ender said:

I can count the number of serious posts I've read by TV's Frink on two hands.  It's a joke, and completely innocent in intent.  If I can find it, I should locate my early reaction to Frink's posts, which offended me at the time before I realized what a nice guy he really is.  I was young (to this site) and foolish back then.

Well, then maybe I am the foolish one!  I am relatively new to this Forum, after all.  I've only been here for 2 months (?), so I'm not familiar with everybody yet! 

TV's Frink said:

You asked for advice, I gave it. Apparently I gave more than you expected. Obviously I don't know anything about you, be it your inside-to-outside ratio or your frequency of calls to your mother. So based on that, you can probably figure out if I was joking or not.

To be clear, I wasn't mocking you, I was just making a joke about the thread title. But your response is worthy of mocking, and as soon as I can think of a humorous way to do so, I'll be sure to post it.

All right.  It's really most appropriate to spend time "one-upping" another, rather than trying to converse about something we all mutually love.  Fine, go the route of the former! 

You'd have to go with Yoda, really.  He is equal to The Emperor by the Power of the Force, and Yoda had much more wisdom than the foolish old Palpatine.