I really like your newest clip Hal. Regardless of the merits of keeping/removing the fathier chase, I really like the new music transition between scenes. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like it helps give Finn’s last look of contemplation a little more weight. As if it could make the audience doubt even more whether Finn will actually commit to the cause or become like DJ.
Sir Ridley said:
It doesn’t necessarily contradict anything. The leaving ship symbolizes that “they left” but maybe they just went away to some other part of Jakku or maybe they went to the “drinking planet” and later came back poor and died. Who knows. But it’s an interesting discussion and there are many ways to handle this, of course.
Haha, I love the idea of there being a drinking planet. Maybe they went partying on Canto Bight and was sent back broke.
You’re right that it doesn’t necessarily contradict anything. Like you said, maybe there is some cantina on the other side of Jakku that they went to. But I think any answer is going to feel a little convoluted, because it seems like a blatant misdirect or. Or, more likely, the two directors of these films have two different ideas about her parents.
As I’ve said, I love the fact she is a nobody, I was hoping as much going into the movie. I just wish that Rian would’ve at least tried to make it line up a little more with the information we’re given in TFA. Maybe Kylo Ren could’ve said they sold her to get off Jakku. They still could’ve been drunks who died in a pauper’s grave, but on another planet.
Though I guess Star Wars isn’t unfamiliar with convoluted explanations.
And it’s possible JJ could reveal something else in IX. Jarbear, you make a good point that not only could Kylo be an unreliable source, but the vision that had could’ve been a false one made by Snoke, since he bridged their minds and wanted them to think they could turn each other. At this point though I’d rather they stick to their guns than change it. For the story go, “Does she have some special origin. Nope, she’s a nobody. Wait, just kidding, she’s a somebody!” would feel like really lazy storytelling, in my opinion. JJ could get away with it I guess, but I hope he doesn’t.
I do really like Adam’s performance in 8, so I wouldn’t want to mess with that if possible.
I guess the best thing to do would be to cut the shot of the ship leaving Jakku, and/or replace it with something else that better fits Kylo’s story, if possible. But it would be easier to cut Kylo’s lines to make the stories line up more. Decisions, decisions.
Rey’s arc in TFA is an interesting one. I actually took a Media & Myth class the semester after TFA came out, and I did the focus of my research on Rey. Rey’s journey in TFA does fit in with the hero’s journey, so it inevitably bears many similarities with Luke’s own journey. She has an initial refusal to the call on Jakku regarding getting BB-8 back to the Resistance, but I would say her true “burning homestead” moment is at the end of the film, when she takes the saber, which is also why I think the use of that motif was so perfect in that scene. That was her finally accepting the call to adventure for the story that will take place over the course of the trilogy.
A lot of literary scholars also suggest that a dinstinct heroine’s journey exists, where the heroine goes on a journey from self-negation to self-affirmation, which fits Rey’s arc pretty nicely. A big theme of TFA is identity. Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren all deal with their own identities in the film. For Rey, she experiences a denial of self, this path the Force is trying to put her on, and it isn’t until the end that she accepts this true self the Force is trying to show her.
I think TLJ is definitely a continuation of that journey. While I think TFA had a complete physical journey for Rey, I think TFA was only the beginning of her spiritual Hero’s Journey, so to speak. I haven’t really read any analyses regarding the hero’s journey in TLJ, but if I had to guess, TFA ended/TLJ began with Rey meeting the Mentor (Han was her mentor in the TFA journey). Her learning about the Force, entering the Special World, was crossing the First Threshold. Her Tests were not physical tests, but tests of her beliefs. The Darkside cave was obviously her Approach to the Inmost Cave (in TFA it was Maz’s basement and the Force vision). And the revelation about her parents was likely her Ordeal, Death, Rebirth. The escape pod being like a casket, a descent into the underworld. Snoke’s throne room being very reminiscent to hell (red, flames, Snoke/Satan figure). And her escape and subsequent scenes being her Rebirth.
While each Star Wars film (like many films do) have their own hero’s journey, the trilogy will have an overarching journey, so I would guess IX will complete that circle and cover the “Return” part of her major journey.
I’m very sorry for rambling so much, all of the research I did for my papers on Rey and the hero’s journey bubbled up again. This might be better for the discussion thread but I suppose this could be useful when one considers heavily restructuring the films.
I had some thoughts about Rey and her parents that I wanted to share with you guys. I know this has been discussed before but I thought I’d give another perspective.
Does Rey’s vision in TFA contradict what is revealed about her parents in 8? In TFA we’re given the impression that Rey’s parents left the planet on a ship, but in TLJ, Kylo Ren tells her that her parents sold her for drinking money and eventually died poor on Jakku.
So did Rey just change the last memory of her parents as a coping mechanism?
It’s possible, but it isn’t really satisfying. I love that she is a nobody, but it just seems like a complete contradiction rather than really a set up to that reveal.
It’s possible that Kylo also lied to her, or he didn’t see the whole truth (although his vision was very specific), I kind of doubt JJ will go 180 on Rey being a nobody.
We might want to wait and see if IX gives us any more info about Rey or her parents, but if nothing really changes, I would suggest doing two things. Either:
Remove the shot of the ship flying away in TFA to accommodate TLJ. (It would be nice if you could replace it with a new shot, like two silhouettes cresting a sand dune).
Change Kylo Ren’s TLJ dialogue to accommodate TFA.
(…= cuts in dialogue)
Could change dialogue in TLJ to-
Kylo Ren: Rey, I saw…your parents…
In throne room-
Kylo Ren: They were filthy junk traders, who sold you off for…money. (or just “sold you” or “sold you off”)
You have no place in this story.
Maybe cut Rey’s “They were nobody”?
Someone made a point of how Rey’s motivation surrounding her parents changes between TFA and TLJ. In TFA, Rey doesn’t want to leave Jakku in hopes her parents would return, but she eventually accepts they aren’t coming back.
In TLJ, I think Rey tries to rationalize why her parents weren’t coming back. Surely something happened to them, or they left for a good reason. Maybe they had some purpose, and now Rey has to fulfill that purpose. But instead, they just abandoned her, so Rey has to find her own purpose. I like that.
But Kylo’s dialogue seems a little weird to me. “I know who your parents are.” I felt like the mystery surrounding her parents (at least for Rey) weren’t the identities of her parents, but where they were/what happened to them. Did Rey forget who her parents were? What they looked like? I suppose it is possible but…
I’m probably thinking too much about this. It just doesn’t seem very clear to me, and the inconsistencies regarding this plot point between TFA and TLJ seem unnecessarily deceptive. Like it was written in a way to do everything it could to make the audience think there was some big reveal.
But I guess the official explanation is that Rey just altered her memories as a coping mechanism. To me, though, it feels like a convenient way to write off the discrepancies rather than feeling really set up and earned. It feels more like an afterthought than well thought out.
I’d appreciate other thoughts/ideas on this.
I like this idea man. I see what you’re saying about the rain though. I kind of think this particular rain effect just doesn’t work for some reason. Maybe another would, or messing with the opacity of the effect.
If the rain doesn’t work, maybe you could just add distant sounds of thunder instead.
I think the color grading looks cool, though the horizon does seem a little bright. I think that kind of gives the effect away a little bit since you can’t really do much about the sky being clear despite how stormy the mood feels now.
Totally my opinion, but I think adding thunder sounds, and maybe trying to darken the sky somehow, might be more effective than adding rain in the background.
These are good ideas TK! I think they flow really well pacing-wise.
I like the the second clip, although it is a little noticeable how a piece of the Resistance motif is missing. Not bad though.
And with the first clip, although Captain Canady is in only the first scene of the movie, I think all of his little moments serve a purpose. When an officer tells him the bombers are approaching, and he says, “Of course they are”, it helps show how the new generation (such as Hux) are lacking very crucial experience, which makes the First Order very stiff and inefficient despite all their fancy equipment. You could argue though we don’t need every moment of that, so in that case I think it still works well!
This has made me think more about Hux’s character in the film. Obviously a lot of us feel that Hux’s character is practically comic relief in the film, a real downgrade to how he was in TFA. Rian said he felt his character works well in that way, which he does have funny moments, but I feel his actual character is lost to most people in all the slapstick. But I think if you tone down the humor (in the right places), you could create a clearer arc for him.
It’s already there, really, just not immediately obvious. In a way, Hux is on a similar journey to becoming a leader that Poe is. Characters like Canady and Captain Peavey, who I believe are both part of the old guard, help illustrate Hux’s incompetence. I’m not saying he’s an idiot, or at least I don’t think he should be portrayed as such. He’s confident, clearly has some ability considering he managed to get his position somehow, but he’s still very inexperienced. His success at destroying Hosnian Prime made his ego grow too much.
I think this is why there is some value in Hux not initially realizing Poe’s trick at the beginning. While I agree it should be trimmed, I like the way Hal has done it for example, but I also think some shot of Peavey reacting to Hux’s gullibility would also help serve this arc. And as the story progresses, it would be great if you could gradually decrease Hux’s incompetence, rather than completely removing it.
I actually believe the novelization makes a point regarding how Hux realizes Holdo is going to ram them the same time Peavey does. I don’t know if that moment could be tightened to help show that idea, but it could be useful if possible.
And at the battle of Crait, you could cut the “concentrate all firepower on those speeders!” bit, and possibly when Kylo throws him across the cockpit.
But I think Hux’s incompetency is kind of necessary because I feel like there are quite of bit of moments where we question why the First Order didn’t do something that would’ve been more efficient, like destroying the Raddus before blowing up their base, or having a Star Destroyer flank the fleet during the chase, or just swarming them with TIE fighters. If the chase could somehow be framed as Hux wanting to watch the Resistance slowly suffer rather than getting it over quickly could help explain some of those things. As it is now, it seems like they have no other choice, which seems like a stretch to me, personally. I would find Hux being overconfident in their inevitable victory to be more believable.
Regardless, if we can feel a noticeable difference in Hux’s portrayal from the beginning of the film to the end, I think we could push that development to the forefront. Hux wises up by the end of the film. A parallel to Poe’s arc, since Poe and Hux will likely be the respective leaders of their factions (Even though Kylo Ren is technically Supreme Leader, Hux is pretty much managing everything). I don’t know how much can be reworked to serve this purpose, but I think it is worth some consideration.
Agreed! It makes me think of the way he threw his own lightsaber at the end of ROTJ.
So you don’t think even if this shot was sped up to normal speed and it cut away before the cross fade, it wouldn’t work? I know that film/digital and resolution might be big differences. It might be too short at normal speed as well.
JEDIT: Thanks for sharing that, Phineas!
Has anyone tried having Luke toss the lightsaber as the music drops out, rather than their being a pause before he throws it? I feel like that is what makes it seem like it was meant to play for laughs, almost. I would just be surprised if anyone could make a new shot that feels seamless.
I’ll look around for some music!
Although I like the idea of changing Starkiller to a factory of sorts, I wonder if that would bring up some confusion with the whole “selling weapons to the First Order” plot in TLJ. I can imagine people asking, “Wait, didn’t the First Order build their own weapons?”
I personally don’t think the “race against the clock” aspect is really crucial to the third act of the film. It works for Restructured, if they’re targeting the Republic, because we expect the Rebels to blow it up in the knick of time, but that doesn’t happen. They fail, and it’s surprising. With the theatrical, we know they’ll succeed because we’ve seen it before. We know Leia isn’t going to die that way, especially right after Han just died. To me, blowing up Starkiller is the least interesting thing in the third act.
What if you could somehow divert that tension to the fight between Kylo Ren vs Finn and Rey? Once Poe destroys the oscillator, one could possibly intercut between the planet falling apart and the battle, and the suspense is created because we don’t know if they’ll get off the planet in time. In my opinion, the audience is more invested in those characters rather than the trench run 2.0, so it might be an interesting test.
But like I’ve said before, I feel like Starkiller should either be a weapon or a factory. Restructured makes the weapon work well, but if Starkiller could be made into a foundry, it would be really interesting to see. It having weapon-capabilities could work as a reveal, but I’d like to see it. I just imagine people thinking, “It looks like another Death Star. Oh! It’s something different! Oh wait, it is another Death Star after all.” If that makes sense.
Maybe the weapon dealers plot point could still work if Starkiller just built the capital ships and then other dealers manufactured the fighters and weapons. The smaller stuff.
I totally agree about how to end the movie. I think your idea has a great adventurous feel to it that would still retain TFA’s ending, but still give the audience a sense that it took some time to get there.
The idea of starting TLJ with Canto Bight is pretty interesting! I’d like to hear your thoughts on that. It almost makes me think of how the Indiana Jones movies start with a different adventure rather than the main adventure of the film.
I always love hearing your ideas for changes. I’m curious about your current plans for the Starlight Project. From our conversation about Starkiller Base and with this, it sounds like you’re planning a very radical edit of the films, and I’m wondering if you had laid out your plans for the TFA & TLJ, or if you haven’t, could discuss what major changes you would like to make.
JEDIT: If there are other changes you have been considering that haven’t been mentioned in your initial posts.
I had never really thought about the music but that is an interesting idea. I would suggest possibly adding instruments to that Byzantine track or applying some kind of effects to it, or maybe what kind of music you could find from Star Wars games, or the Clone Wars. How difficult would it be to remove the music though? Does it not play beneath any important dialogue?
Someone might have already suggested this idea but I thought I’d put it out here.
Haha, I’m so sorry Ridley. From now on, whenever someone says “your mother” in a sentence, you will have this line echo in your head for the rest of the day. The curse of the editor, having to listen to the same lines countless times.
It really is a testament to JEJ’s performance.
This newest version is really good, Ridley.
Do you guys think the “your” is okay? He says that word a lot in the Bible audiobooks, but he typically talks quickly. Or, we could find a clean version of Vader saying “your”. Maybe, “Perhaps you feel ‘you’re’ being treated unfairly?”
Pretty seamless! I really like the pacing of the second clip. Did you cut Rose giving DJ her necklace since you cut him giving it back? Because we do see her wearing it later in the film.
I just personally think the fight between Kylo and Luke shouldn’t be a physical one. The fact that Luke projected himself was a brilliant decision. It’s the ultimate Jedi act, defense, not attack. It allowed him to confront Kylo Ren and save the Resistance, but it also prevented him from having to kill Ben (which he doesn’t want to do) and it prevented Ben from being able to kill Luke and plunge himself further into the dark side.
The fact that the whole First Order saw him take a barrage of firepower and be untouched, toy with their new Supreme Leader and then just disappear, is the stuff of legend.
We saw Luke be a badass, showing us one of the most, if not the most, powerful uses of the Force we’ve ever seen. I totally get the fanboy desires, but I would just think about it some more!
Thanks! Hopefully it wouldn’t be too difficult to do.
And yeah, I had actually thought about that too. While I’m pretty happy with the scene as is and I think Mark nails a great performance with his facial expressions alone, I think variables would be fun to see.
I can think of three options:
Maybe a subtle double exposure, that way we don’t lose any of Mark’s performance.
Very quick flashes. Maybe sped up slightly. Or, regular/slower speed but with an exaggerated motion blur.
Or maybe just simply adding more voices begging for their lives. Maybe younger voices, men, women.
Maybe they’re his students he’s hearing, regardless, maybe this could help make Luke’s reaction more sympathetic.
Though to me, I didn’t initially think Luke was seeing the future.
I think that Ben was already planning to betray Luke and the other Jedi. Or at least, Snoke had told him he had to destroy the Jedi. Ben probably said yes, but was still contemplating it. He was scared. He probably dreamt/had nightmares about it, killing the Jedi, his friends, and that is what Luke saw. It may have not been too late for Ben, but Ben, in his heart, had already begun to betray him. So while Luke may have triggered it, I feel Luke just made it happen sooner.
Then again, you can hear Kylo Ren’s crackly saber, and Luke does say, “-because of what he will become.” So I guess it’s up for debate. It’s possible that Kylo already began to envision himself as Kylo Ren, clad in black armor like his grandfather.
I just would be careful about what shots to use because reusing a lot of shots we’ve seen before might not feel really interesting, because we’re not really getting any new information. I also would be weary about any visions regarding Han or Leia, because if he saw them die, I think some people will be a little surprised that Luke abandoned them knowing that their son would eventually kill them too. I think it’d be better to focus on either random victims or his students, or mostly Kylo Ren himself. Personally, I think just adding a few really heart-wrenching voices, cries of mercy, could be pretty effective.
Also, while I personally wouldn’t want to change this, I think it would be possible to have Luke pull out his lightsaber, but not activate it until Ben reaches for his. You could reuse, crop, recolor some shots, remove the saber glare from their eyes and the sound of the saber from a line or two if possible.
Yeah, this movie was definitely lacking more explosions. A few extra explosions and it would have been the best Star Wars movie, hands down.
Just had some more edit thoughts about the movie. Sorry in advance for the long post.
- Space Leia
I know a lot of people don’t like the space leia moment, but it personally works for me. If TLJ had been a book that came out when I was a kid, I would have freaked out when I got to this part. Though I am not arguing that there is something about it that throws most people off, so I wanted to suggest two possible changes to that moment that others might be interested in trying.
I think that moment not working for a lot of people mostly comes down to one shot, which is the initial shot of her “flying” toward the ship. It feels noticeably CG, and it is sort of a weird camera movement, but I think one thing that makes it feel weird are the “swooshing” sounds we hear as she (and the camera) pass by floating debris. I wonder if you only had the music during that shot, that it might alleviate some of that “weirdness”.
Another thought, a lot of people refer to Leia in this scene as “flying”, but I never saw it that way. To me, she’s pulling on the ship, which would pull her back towards the ship since she is less massive. I wonder if one could insert a shot of the ship door, and add the slight sound of metal creaking against some kind of pressure, to help imply that is what she is doing. If that was clearer maybe it could have worked for some more people. Maybe there is a decent shot of a door somewhere in the film, or one could do some fx work to the shot of her putting her hand against the door (maybe reverse it and rotoscope her out). You could put the shot right before she opens her eyes, and just trim the previous shot of her hand opening just a little shorter to make it fit in without harming the music.
I know a lot of people don’t care for this moment, and I think darthrush has done a really great job of removing it for those who want it out. But for those who want to keep it might consider trying one (or both) of these things out and see how it feels.
- Hyperspace Kamikaze
Another moment I loved was the hyperspace kamikaze. Although, a lot of people felt it raised a lot of questions, like why this maneuver isn’t more common, etc., etc.
I don’t think an answer for this isn’t exactly necessary. You could argue that does happen, we just don’t see it a lot, the ship was in the sweet spot transitioning between real space and hyperspace, and I believe the novelization said the Raddus’ size and experimental shields had something to do with the scale of the damage. But I do think there are some options for those who would like to add context for that moment.
I haven’t read the novelization, but it also apparently makes it clear that most ship computers don’t allow pilots to intentionally ram their ships into other ships, the computer just refuses to. In this case, though, Poe apparently had already put hyperspace coordinates into the Raddus. When Holdo went back to the bridge, the route was still plugged into computer, but now the hyperspace entry point was behind the First Order fleet. Apparently this made it easier to circumvent the computer’s failsafes, allowing her to make the jump. One might be able to imply this idea by two or three close-ups of the pilot seat screen, maybe generating a simple animation of the ship, the route, and the obstruction (The Supremacy). So you could generate a display showing when Poe sets up the hyperspace route, then later with the Supremecy blocking the path (flashing blue/red to show it can’t launch), then when Holdo overrides the failsafe, back to blue. You could actually use the display Finn looks at on the ship while him and Rose are on their way to Canto Bight, with some slight modifications, since it already has graphics for the Raddus, the Supremacy, and the other little Star Destroyers. And I believe there is an insert of the captain’s seat display when Poe checks the Hangar cameras.
Personally, my favorite idea for this has been Neverar’s, because it provides a solution that not only resolves major lore questions, but also contributes to the narrative by having the First Order’s technology being their key to their downfall. For those who haven’t read his idea, basically, the hyperspace tracking device sort of acts likes a periscope into hyperspace, simultaneously making a part of the ship exist both in real space and hyperspace. While ships in hyperspace can be destroyed if they collide with mass shadows of real space objects, these collisions don’t typically do damage to those real space objects, explaining why explosions like this don’t happen all of the time. In this case, though, since the Supremacy is connected to hyperspace, this causes the collision to happen, plus their sizes contribute to the catastrophic scale.
This is a really elegant solution, but I do think it may take quite a bit of work to figure how to do it, because it would require a bit of information to get across through implication (or maybe off screen dialogue). I won’t break it all down in this post though. So while I think this would wrap that plot point up in a nice narrative bow, I do think it needs to be thought through, and would require more changes than the first option. Maybe Nev has thought about this more, or others might have more ideas. I think it’d be worth more discussion.
- The Space Chase
I know some people felt the space chase plot felt a little dull, because visually, it doesn’t really feel like they are moving. It’s like a chase on a treadmill. I was also a little surprised that they left their base with only enough fuel for two hyperspace jumps (though the films don’t give us much context regarding how often ships need to refuel). I believe I have already mentioned this, but I was wondering if most people were okay with this, or were interested in having the chase be them jumping in and out of hyperspace. They’re still running out of fuel, they just have more than they originally did. This could also help answer questions like, why didn’t they send another ship to flank them, or why didn’t they just swarm their fleet with more TIE fighters than they could handle. This kind of change is doable, but would require some work. I am just curious who all would see the merit in this kind of change.
Despite changing this or not, I do think that specifying how many hours of fuel they have left should be removed whenever possible. They can still talk about how they don’t have much left, but giving them a definite timeframe raises more technical questions of how long it took Finn & Rose to get back and forth from Canto Bight and how long they were there, how long Rey was with Luke, etc., that I think are better left open to interpretation.
The crawl mentions that the Resistance has been exposed, but the First Order already knew where the Resistance base was at the end of TFA. This is also kept in TFA: Restructured. Should this be altered in the crawl? I know someone has mentioned this.
Super super nitpicky, but I’ve had this idea about the moment Rey lifts the rocks at the end of the film. Instead of lifting it with one hand, and it looking almost effortless for Rey, could her other arm possibly be rotoscoped and flipped to make it appear she has both arms raised? Very superficial, I know.
This might be a strange one, but regarding the flashbacks, I think one could have the last shot before jumping into the first flashback be a close-up of Rey instead of Luke. This is to help imply that this is how Rey is visualizing Luke’s words, rather than Luke straight-up lying about what happened. He only left out a detail for Rey’s imagination, and this would also possibly help foreshadow that something might be missing. In the second close-up, the film already cuts to the Kylo’s flashback from Kylo’s close-up, implying that is how he remembers it. The same happens with the third flashback, where we cut from Luke, to imply how he remembers it, which is meant to be the truth. Hopefully this makes sense.
EDIT: I think you guys churning out edit clips have been making some pretty cool stuff that with the purpose of focusing the pacing and the narrative. I just thought I’d throw out some other random, more nitpicky ideas. Just because these are some of the issues I see getting talked about a lot online.
I think it is great. A definite improvement.
EDIT: Double post.
First of all, thanks for sharing your thoughts and these cuts. I’ll be adding a lot of these to the resources folder just in case we decide to use them, if you’re cool with that.
That “mind wiped” cut is pretty good! Though I wonder if it could be made into “Have the droids’ minds wiped” rather than just “mind”.
Yeah, R2 definitely needs a sad beep there.
My view on the Sifo-Dyas thing is that he never gets mentioned again within the films, so within the movies we never really get an answer for it. I understand that it is meant to be a red herring, but is a red herring that is never even revealed as a red herring. So people left the theater wondering who Sifo-Dyas is and if more will be revealed about him in the next film, which we know never is. To me, this shows how murky the whole plot was in the first place, and it would just be simpler to make it where an anonymous person ordered this clone army for the Jedi Council and the Republic. It could technically still be Sifo-Dyas, we just don’t get that information (because we don’t need it). All we’ll know is that a man called Tyrannus hired Jango for this job. Obi-Wan never discovers the identity of Tyrannus, but the audience will by the end of the film when Dooku is revealed to be Tyrannus. Then the audience will know that the clone army is merely a part of Darth Sidious’ plot. I think Sifo-Dyas just makes it more complicated than it needs to be.
Yeah, we can see what ends up happening with Solo first just in case regarding Chewbacca and the Jedi.
That’s an interesting view on Anakin using green in AOTC. I hadn’t really thought of it that way but I totally see where you’re coming from. What if the colors were swapped with him and Obi? He would still wield a green one when he dual wields.
Yeah, I don’t think I would want to finalize anything until Adywan’s ROTJ is complete.
Wow, I know you made these for your own edits but I appreciate you sharing them! A lot of the Obi-Wan edits are pretty seamless. I also like the incest cuts too. Another kiss you missed is when Leia kisses Luke in the Falcon him as they are escaping from Cloud City. Not sure how to cut around that one.
I like the “Obi-Wan once thought as you do” cut. If we can’t get “your mother” to work, this would be the alternative option.
While I’m on the fence about Stormtroopers being clones personally, you’ve shown that implying that they are still clones would be pretty easy!
Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts! I know these take forever to write but I appreciate the opinions.
I agree about the Yoda line. Changing it to “A Jedi master who instructed me” is the next change I would like to see.
I agree with you about the Jedi robes. I just think it would be way too hard to change them.
I do agree about the tech, but I just feel there is a bit of a disconnect, because even customized ships like Vader’s TIE Advanced and Kylo Ren’s TIE Silencer have more retro interfaces. Even the Falcon, which has been heavily modified, still has these retro targeting computers. I just feel the retro motion graphics are a part of Star Wars’ style, and I think seeing those types of graphics in the prequels could help bridge that design gap a little more.
I also think that’s the implication within the films regarding the Rule of Two. It’s exactly what you said, I think they’re both just competing to get Luke to become their apprentice.
Having them all have purple sabers when they confront the chancellor is an interesting idea too, although I think the implication should be that Mace’s action the whole of the Jedi rather than a certain group of Jedi, which is why Palpatine can condemn them all rather than just those four, if that makes sense.
Regarding Sifo-Dyas, that’s what I was thinking too! We could at least try to cut any mention of him out and see how it flows without him. I could be wrong! Just gotta see.
I also think Dooku was hoping to maybe turn Obi, and that if he failed to, it wouldn’t matter because he would be executed anyway. I also like to think that Dooku had noble reasons for joining the Sith, maybe that he could possibly destroy the Sith from the inside, but in the end he was just corrupted by the lust for power.
Leia being a princess: Bail and is wife are royalty, but it is actually never mentioned within the films. We can only assume. I kind of that it would be nice to have someone refer to Bail as “King” at least once, maybe Anakin right before Padme tells Anakin she’s pregnant.
I also think Obi-Wan aging between films is a big deal. I mean it isn’t that unbelievable and really, what are you going to do about it?
Stormtroopers being clones: Stormtroopers are normal recruits in canon, but it goes to show you how unclear it is because a lot people do think they are clones, I think George went back and forth on them being clones too. I just think it’d be easier to not make them clones and add a female voice or two to make it a little more obvious.
Yeah, Luke getting past the Hoth blockade was never a big deal to me either. I just assumed his ship was small enough to easily get past it, or he went in a different direction.
Obi-Wan never tells Luke he was their last hope, he just says it to Yoda, as an observation. Then when Yoda says, “No, there is another.” He says it like Obi-Wan wasn’t aware of Leia. Maybe they just have differing opinions on Leia and her potential or if she would even want to be trained.
Regarding Leia remembering, that’s an interesting idea having Leia being born first. Really the least you can do without changing ROTJ. I just don’t see why Luke wouldn’t remember her either in that case, you know?
Why Vader seems subservient to Emperor in ROTJ. Yeah, I think Luke basically chose dying over joining his own dad, I think Vader realized he couldn’t turn Luke alone, and he realized as much. The Emperor says as much, “Only together can we turn him to the dark side.” Just certain things, like groveling about the Emperor in private with Luke, or not letting Luke just kill the Emperor instead of blocking him in the Throne room. Just makes it a little less clear.
Yeah, Rey speaks Wookiee. Finn makes a point of it on the Falcon, asking, “You can understand that thing?” in TFA. She even translates Chewie for Luke in TLJ, which I’m not really sure she needs to. Does Luke not understand Chewie?
I also like that after all the time they spent together, that still haven’t done things like used the other one’s blaster. I also think Han making a point of how powerful it is sets up how much pain Kylo probably is in later when he gets shot with it.
Regarding Anakin’s saber. Yeah, you could argue its just stylistic choices, but I like the idea fit being a consistent light blue throughout the films, like a cyan, sky blue compared to the basic blue of the other lightsabers.
Appreciate all of your thoughts!
Nice! Thanks for giving it a go. I made a sample of how it would look within the film.
But yeah, it looks like we could have three options if we can’t get this to match perfectly.
Use existing Vader quotes to create “your mother”
Use the Bible reading to also create “once thought as you do” to match.
Have some record their own voice if we can get it to sound like Vader.
I don’t know if Ady has any particular plans for this line, but watch us do all this work and then he releases ROTJ Revisited with a perfectly seamless “Your mother once thought as you do”! Although I don’t think he is planning on doing that.
They’re both seamless technically, at least to me. For the Maz one, it may just be me but I feel without that line, Finn and Rose’s look seems a little out of place. It could imply that they are skeptical of whether this guy can do “everything”, maybe? It’s hard to look at it 100% subjectively since I know what it is meant to imply.
Well, even if Dooku were to be in TPM, I don’t see where/why you would see the color of Dooku’s lightsaber in the first film. But, him having a blue/green saber in AOTC and then having a red in ROTS is an interesting idea. The new canon has established that Sith have to kill a Jedi and take their lightsabers to get their red crystals, so it would make sense that he may not have had a chance to do so until the Clone Wars. But him having a new saber in III might raise more questions, and doubt there will be much agreement on what color he should even have if one were to change it in AOTC.
I had thought about too. Though I also could see how someone on the Council could begin to truly see the failings of it more than most. Especially after he personally witnessed the Council failing to take the Sith threat seriously, resulting in his old apprentice’s death. I also feel that would be the most natural place for him to be, because I think him appearing anywhere else would either be too difficult or just raise more questions within the film. He’d just be a cameo, we don’t need to know who he is or what is important about him and it won’t raise any questions within the context of TPM, but it’ll out a little something that goes towards the plot of AOTC in a retrospective way. Then again, Dooku laments in AOTC about having never crossed paths with Obi before, so you would have to change that. I don’t know, I just think if there isn’t a natural way to insert him into the Council, then he shouldn’t be in TPM at all.
And if we were to swap Yaddle with another Jedi, why not Dooku? It would serve the story and be an interesting cameo, more so than any other Jedi. I just think it would be difficult to really do. I’m not sure if anyone on here has the technical skills to make such a change, either.
While I do think this is an interesting discussion and be up for consideration since it would add connectivity to the films, I also don’t think it is the most crucial change either. While it could be a nice connection, it isn’t necessarily resolving a previous issue, just improving the connectivity. Here are some other changes I think that would be useful, but would require some vfx work.
Why is the tech level so different from OT? / I think it would be interesting to overlay more retro ship displays over the current ones in the prequel films to help alleviate the tech difference between trilogies. I think nicer looking ships are fine, but even in the sequel trilogy, the ships interfaces are more retro. I’m not very familiar with motion graphics myself but I think this would be a good way to learn too.
Why was it never explained why Jedi Master “Sifo-Dyas” ordered the clone army? / Some effects may be necessary to alter the Prime Minister of Kamino’s mouth movement to help sell this.
If Chewbacca always knew the Jedi were real, why didn’t he ever tell Han? / I think Chewbecca should either be photoshopped out of his ROTS scenes, or be recolored to imply he is a different wookie. I think someone like paja would be capable of this if he was interested. Maybe we could change him to a “silver” wookie? wink wink
Why does Yoda run away from his fight with Palpatine? / It always kind of bothered me how it seemed like Yoda just sort of gave up in their fight. If we keep it, I think it would be nice to hear (or see) clones entering the senate chamber, maybe see some blaster shots or even hear Yoda break some bones when he falls.
What’s up with Anakin’s yellow Sith eyes? Why does Anakin momentarily get them but we don’t see Dooku, Luke when he almost killed Vader, or Kylo Ren ever have them? / I suggest just changing his eyes back to their normal color.
Why does the Death Star take so long to build?/ Since Rogue One established that the dish was one of the last pieces placed on the Death Star, maybe the DS at the end of ROTS could have its dish at the equator to infer it is a prototype, or replace it with a different early DS design (maybe just the circular frame without a dish)
Why does Anakin’s lightsaber seem to change color between the movies? / Decide on a consistent hue for the saber and maintain in within each film.
Why does Kylo Ren’s scar look so different than it did at the end of TFA? / Ridley is handling this with his edit.
Cool, I look forward to the Maz scene. And yeah, I’m also more on the side of “trim” rather than “cut”, if that makes sense.
Looks pretty seamless my man. Are you going to have her be bubbly, then realize what he is doing, or does she already realize what he is doing in this version?
I’m sure someone has mentioned this already, but I saw some people online talking about a continuity error in the Rey/Kylo Ren vs Preatorian guard battle. At 1:47:14, the beginning of the shot where the dagger guard gets Rey in a locked position, the guard has both daggers still, but suddenly, within the same shot, the the left dagger disappears as soon as it passes from view behind Rey’s back. It’s just gone.
You can see it at 2:27 in this clip. https://youtu.be/7rowkMpohoY?t=143
My assumption is that during the editing process, one of the editors pointed out how the guard could have just stabbed Rey in the back with the other dagger while he/she had her stuck. When they did the choreography and when they were shooting, they probably overlooked it because they had gone through it so many times and those kind of things just become less obvious after repetition. So they did the least amount of work, which was rotoscope it out as soon as it leaves direct view.
I can sympathize with the editors and the vfx people, but now that I’ve seen it I can’t unsee it. I’m just really surprised they didn’t even at least remove it from the whole shot. I mean, there’s no way to explain it disappearing within the film. If they had taken it out of the whole shot, you could at least say that maybe Rey had cut through one of the daggers or something in between shots.
I’m just curious if anyone felt this would be a worthy fix, to rotoscope it out of the first half of the shot. It lasts about a second, so 23ish frames? In the previous shot with Rey and the dagger guard, you see them fighting in the distance behind Kylo Ren, and it would be cool if one could even make it look like Rey cut through one of them (maybe a flash and see it falling, for example) at that moment. In that shot she strikes both the left-hand dagger and the right-hand dagger, and if you had her cut through the left dagger, it also would be about 23 frames or less of work.