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NeverarGreat

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Join date
11-Sep-2012
Last activity
25-Oct-2025
Posts
7,709

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Post
#1316371
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Agree with your Kylo assessment. If he was beyond saving in TLJ then he would not have been goaded by Luke into fighting, he would simply have ignored him and ended the Resistance. The fact that he is so desperate to kill the past is because it keeps reminding him of his guilt. All that TLJ established in this regard is that Luke and Rey were done with trying to redeem him, placing the onus on him to make the change.

Post
#1316293
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

NeverarGreat said:

Broom Kid, I’ve seen you bring this up several times before, to the point where I legitimately wonder why you are on a site which proudly proclaims its intensely-focused sub-fandom cred if you believe that such a thing is unhealthy.

Couple reasons. Three, actually:

  1. I’m not any different than anyone else who struggles with breaking (or at least modulating) unhealthy habits, or who is trying to find a way to maintain a balance that works. Plus I like Star Wars.

  2. This place DOES have its share of toxic behaviors and bad posters engaging in mostly unhealthy behavior, but it’s also small and self-contained enough (and willing to self-police in a manner that many communities don’t indulge, or in some cases actively shun) that compared to other communities, it’s relatively “safe,” if you will. Plus it’s one of the few places in which “community” isn’t a pretentious euphemism, but an accurate descriptor.

  3. All things in moderation, etc.

I want to leave in 2019 the idea that a fandom is toxic purely because it is a fandom. People are allowed to have strong positive feelings for works of art, and they are allowed to come together to express those feelings. I don’t think that is a bad thing.

It doesn’t HAVE to be, no, and I agree that it’s not always. But I’ve seen about 20 years of experience that it almost always becomes that way, and the last 10 of that 20 has been an ongoing example in how bad it becomes once mainstreamed.

Being a fan of something is fine. Sharing why you like things with others who might share your interests is also fine. But millions of people manage to do this all the time without being part of a fandom. Liking popular culture isn’t special, and that self-awareness goes a long way towards avoiding the mentally unhealthy pitfalls fandom is constantly introducing while its members act like those pitfalls are actually swimming pools. Letting entertainment supplement your life experiences is good! That’s what it’s supposed to do! Letting your enjoyment of an entertainment REPLACE large parts of your personality? That’s fandom. One of those results often discards moderation and perspective, and promotes obsession, entitlement, possessiveness, and fixation, and that’s where it can get unhealthy if you’re not paying attention to yourself and what you’re doing with your time.

Good things can come out of fandoms, have done before, will do again, and are truly remarkable at times. But the presence of a good thing in a bad situation doesn’t transform the situation’s inherent badness. Good students graduate from terrible schools every year. Fandom is like a school that is nothing but electives. That might be fun for a semester or two, but if you’re not careful you wake up a decade later like Wooderson cruising high school parking lots trying to get high with some 5th year seniors because they won’t realize you’ve been making the same jokes and telling the same war stories for the last 10 years.

Again - way off topic. But you asked me directly, so I thought I should at least answer. For what it’s worth, I appreciate that you addressed me directly, and did so with patience and kindness (which we could all do with a lot more of) so for my part, I’m going to try and help fulfill your request to leave conversations about fandom toxicity behind in 2019, so when I do visit here and see fit to pitch in my two cents, I’ll keep that particular penny in my pocket. Or leave it in the tray at the 7-11 before I even come through the door.

Happy New Year!

Thank you for your answer. I’m not saying we should not have discussions about toxicity, but it just seemed weird to me that you so often cast fandom as an absolute bad. I’m glad to hear that this impression was a mistake on my part.

RL, she had seen all the films before (and the OT many times), but she hadn’t rewatched any of it in years or had much interest in SW material really until Mando.

Dom, it’s true that possessiveness is part of the issue, and I’d imagine anyone doing a fanedit could easily be cast as being on the wrong side of that issue. Guilty as charged I suppose. However I’d argue that even in fanediting there can be a difference between ‘deleting stuff I don’t like’ and enhancing/adding to what already exists. I try to do the latter, but it is often splitting hairs.

I’ve taking a break from editing after the workprint was released, and am shifting to some new creative endeavors at least until TROS arrives on video. But I’m sure to stick around here in the meantime regardless. Happy new years everyone!

Post
#1316265
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

Fandom in general is pretty mentally unhealthy. It only makes sense that smaller, more intensely-focused sub-fandoms would be seen as being even more “yikes.” The mainstreaming of fandom is maybe one of the worst things to have been facilitated by the internet in the 21st century, not just in how it helped normalize toxicity in discourse, but in how entertainment discussions have become both distraction from, and proxy FOR, ACTUALLY import and and meaningful things happening in the real world.

The more we get distracted, the more we convince ourselves the distractions are more meaningful than they actually are - the more meaning we undeservedly project onto entertainments, the more warped and shrunk our perspectives become, the more toxic and reactionary we are - until the baseline we occupy every time we log on is frequently scared, angry, helpless, and disillusioned, at all times, of most things; things which we can’t control and never could because we don’t actually make movies or tv shows, we just watch them - which only causes us to further pursue pop culture distractions as a form of “escapism.”

It’s a pretty dumb, ugly, vicious circle that’s been mainstreamed and normalized to a fairly disturbing degree. Its partially why our cultural memory is maybe two-weeks long at best.

Broom Kid, I’ve seen you bring this up several times before, to the point where I legitimately wonder why you are on a site which proudly proclaims its intensely-focused sub-fandom cred if you believe that such a thing is unhealthy.

While I agree with you that many people use the internet to hyperfocus on their negativity with regards to movies and shows, these online spaces are also filled with people who have genuine appreciation for these properties. These are people who saw Star Wars with their friends and family and through enjoyment of these films formed stronger bonds of friendship because of them. These are people who took some of their ideas and philosophy to heart and used them as empowering messages in dark times in their lives.

Most of toxicity in fandoms arises when the art in question becomes so vast and varied in quality that gatekeeping and no-true-fan-ing becomes the norm. It arises when schisms erupt and battle-lines are drawn, when versions of art are suppressed and its creators gaslight its fans for decades, when creators declare levels of cannonicity and declare decades of creative work null and void, and the creative reins are handed to those who replace those works with other works of dubious quality. In this way the toxicity of the Star Wars fandom has long been cultivated and encouraged. Yet despite all of this there is a tremendous amount of goodwill for Star Wars even now. I believe that site has in some small way helped in keeping the suppressed art alive and reversed some of the toxicity the creators have cultivated around the fans. I believe that this preservation and the fandom which created it is good, and more than that it is right. All acts of appreciation for art are good, and even criticism when tempered with praise.

I want to leave in 2019 the idea that a fandom is toxic purely because it is a fandom. If you find yourself becoming a more angry, worried person because of a fandom then absolutely it is unhealthy and you must find a way to regain that former appreciation or find a way to leave peaceably. But I love Star Wars, the Original Trilogy. I appreciate the bold intent behind the Prequels and the vast imagination of the EU. I find wonderful vivid characters and excellent production quality in the Sequel Trilogy, and adore the Mandalorian with my girlfriend, who now also has a new appreciation for this world. People are allowed to have strong positive feelings for works of art, and they are allowed to come together to express those feelings. I don’t think that is a bad thing.

Post
#1316226
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

One thing I haven’t seen brought up yet is how the Rey-Palpatine lineage now makes TFA absolutely, hilariously coincidental.

The map to Luke is discovered on Jakku by an old friend of Luke’s, and the first person BB-8 carrying the map runs into is the granddaughter of Palpatine, who is in speeder distance of the Millennium Falcon and happens to use this to escape the planet and they happen to be picked up within five minutes by Han Solo and brought to a place that has Luke’s old lightsaber in the basement. All of these things, save the connection between Han and the Falcon, are complete coincidences.

Post
#1316105
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Here’s another ‘Inspired by’ change: https://youtu.be/BD5mLw0A8vI?t=876

He says that Rose should have been in charge of gathering reinforcements for the final battle. So would this be possible? As far as I can remember she is just hanging out at the Resistance base the entire movie, but could it be possible to insert some dialogue to indicate that she is busy calling up leaders of the core worlds and have them Rendzevous in some place? Then Lando could lead these gathered forces to the final fight.

Post
#1316024
Topic
Name Something You Unreservedly Love About The Rise Of Skywalker
Time

Wexter said:

NeverarGreat said:

I love how it felt like an EU novel. They may not have been the greatest books, but I had a blast reading them in the 90’s and I had a blast watching this now.

Say what you will about 90s EU novels, they were mostly competently structured stories that strived to expand on what was set up in the OT. I definitely didn’t get that same feeling from TROS, but to each their own.

There was good EU and not-so-good EU, and this definitely felt like the latter. But even at its worst, the EU had an energy which I felt like this captured.

Post
#1315941
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I like the angle you’re on right now RL, though it does seem outside the scope of a typical edit. The best part of this idea is that it has roots in all three ST movies from Finn’s background to the Broom Boy plot to Jannah and the child harvesting in TROS. Heck, it even goes back to one of the biggest unexplored plot threads of TPM - the child slavery that helped create Anakin and arguably the rest of the tragedies in the Saga.

Post
#1315752
Topic
Why don't people hate the Palpatine re-casting in ESB yet despise Force ghost Anakin's re-casting in RotJ?
Time

ray_afraid said:

theMaestro said:

By that logic, the Hayden ghost is also a plot hole, since a long-haired Anakin with an intact right arm and those specific robes also never existed.

lol This.
Also, I guess Obi-Wan’s ghost should still be chopped in half.
Ridiculous.

You must admit that the scene after Yoda’s death would be infinitely better if Obi-wan sat on the log by placing his hands on his hips and pushing his upper body off of his lower body and setting it on the log, with his legs walking offscreen on their own.

Post
#1315646
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

After watching this https://youtu.be/GErIPKjwuDg?t=2977 I was thinking about one of her ideas, and it’s a cool one. Basically Rey caused her parent’s spaceship to crash all those years ago when they left her.

This makes sense on a lot of levels, some explained by Jenny but since it gives her powerful Force sensitivity since birth, it makes more sense that these powers are the result of bloodline rather than a spontaneous arising of the Force in response to extraordinary circumstances. She even says that the Force has always been inside her. By showing her powers from a young age, there’s also good reason to accept her powers later on in the films. Finally, this makes sense of Kylo’s odd statement that Rey’s parents are buried on Jakku despite apparently leaving the planet.

So how would this be communicated in a fanedit?

I would keep Rey’s vision in TFA the same. The ship flies off and she cries out.

In TLJ, she has a vision under Luke’s island where she sees the image of her parent’s crashed spaceship - still salvageable, but with two bodies lying on the sand beside it. A shadow lies over them, as if a hooded figure is standing off screen.

In TROS, as Rey pulls the transport to her, she has a flashback of her parents leaving and her struggling to pull them back, causing an explosion in one engine and sending the ship falling out of the sky and over some distant dunes.

Post
#1314998
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Using the vision effect from ROTS has been bothering me. The only vision we got in the OT was the darkside cave, and yet that trippy, genuinely disturbing low-framerate effect has never been replicated in either the PT or the ST. I wonder what Rey’s vision in TFA would look like with that effect?

Maybe for future visions there could be a combination of ROTS vision halo and ESB vision framerate.

Post
#1314981
Topic
CGI Yoda
Time

Keanine said:

NeverarGreat said:

It’s my understanding that for the original TPM puppet (Creepy Puppet Yoda) they were trying to go for a younger look. When that didn’t play well for audiences they instead tried to return to the look of the ESB puppet in digital form. They tried their best (in 2002 CGI terms) but it still wasn’t nearly right.

So as far as I have been able to tell, the CGI was really their best attempt at replicating the ESB puppet.

That’s a fair point, CGI was still being pushed to its limits at the time so you are probably right. I would have thought Lucas would have wanted to go back and update it, but perhaps he grew to prefer the updated design? This is all conjecture of course

This documentary actually delves into the creation of the CGI Yoda in great detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh-5UhwcBW0

In the first few minutes they talk about how the ESB puppet was their reference.

JEDIT: If they used a CGI Yoda on TLJ, I wonder if they would have modeled him speficially as a puppet with a puppeteer hand inside manipulating the digital apparatus, and had this digital hand motion captured for authenticity. Sort of a recursive way of recreating the original feel.

Post
#1314968
Topic
CGI Yoda
Time

It’s my understanding that for the original TPM puppet (Creepy Puppet Yoda) they were trying to go for a younger look. When that didn’t play well for audiences they instead tried to return to the look of the ESB puppet in digital form. They tried their best (in 2002 CGI terms) but it still wasn’t nearly right.

So as far as I have been able to tell, the CGI was really their best attempt at replicating the ESB puppet.

Post
#1314835
Topic
Sequel Trilogy: The Map to Luke's location
Time

But even that doesn’t explain why the Imperial map from 40 years ago has a hole in it with a dotted line leading to the hole which perfectly fits around the piece reconstructed by Tekka, which also has that line continued to Luke’s island. Like, that map from the Empire must have been specifically intended to find that one Jedi temple, implying that Palps was working on finding it even after he assumed all the Jedi were gone, and it somehow got included in the installation CDs for the Death Star, and it would have been accidentally unrestricted information because even a floorplan of the Death Star detention block is unavailable to R2. And all of this implies that the Rebellion/New Republic/Resistance didn’t have this intel from the Empire even after conquering said Empire, nor did they have even a scrap of data from this region of space which would allow them to triangulate the rest of the map’s position. At this point I’m worried that the Resistance doesn’t know how a telescope works.

I’m sorry. I started thinking about it again.