musicman said:Some stuff they flat-out nail: the sequence in the graveyard/crypt is just terrific, IMO.
Natives who poison both ends of their arrows is not my idea of terrific.
It's easy to ask people to pitch in about the menu, but it would be much easier to those who might help if we knew what type of format you were looking for.
For instance, do you want an all out menu or just a simple poster shot like I mentioned earlier? Will this be only one version of the film, or multiple? Will it require multiple discs? You want subtitles? Scene Selection? Multiple audio tracks? ect.
Have you made a layout on how to navigate through the menus? If not I would at least start something like that just to get an idea and it doesn't need to be all that complex.
....I'm actually kind of interested in making the menus for this disc. I just don't know if I can really make a menu that's as good as many other fan edits that have come before, like Adywan's menu for Star Wars revisited or even the Phantom Cut.
Why I hate Indiana Jones.
Chapter 1
Shia La Bug Fudge as Indiana Jones' son. No thank you. The Last Crusade was enough of a family film even for an Indiana Jones movie, I don't need another one. And why a son? Can we have a hero movie where a big name hero has a daughter for once?
Chapter 2
Same old story all over again. Evil foreign army wants the ultimate power from an ancient artifact, they get it thanks to Indy, they unleash the power, get overwhelmed by it and get disintegrated and their remains fly up in the air. How original.
Chapter 3
Monkeys hate communists. Why? Oh, and thank you for showing that clip where we see the Monkey that Cate Blanchett threw off a cliff and than having it grab onto a branch. I would have hated the movie if the villain did something that evil like killing a monkey.
Chapter 4
The Aliens are a bunch of a**holes. I don't mind aliens. Honest. But the fact that when they leave they destroy any remnants that they ever existed is pretty selfish since it involved wiping out an entire society!
Chapter 5
"Somewhere, you grandpa's laughing." Ya, and grandma is wondering if she ever had any impact on your life Indy. Thanks for leaving her out of the picture.
Chapter 6
Mutt being developed to be the next Indy. Totally not cashing in on Shia's surge in popularity. No way.
Chapter 7
Lucas and Spielberg thinking they're the only ones who should still make/write Indy movies. I'd love to see it if that wasn't the case.
I'm a huge fan of DVD menus and I'm curious about how your menus will be handled. Will they be animated? Static? Take place on the bridge or in space? Or just a simple poster shot with the only button being 'play'?
I was kind of disappointed with the menu design that was on the Director's Edition so I was curious if you were going to try and top that.
Looking good. Looking very good!
Just wanted to say that I'm a big fan of this film and I'm looking forward to the work you've done to it!
Ripplin said:They can jazz it up all they want, but it still looks boring. Haha. And it doesn't change the fact that the planet is a giant desert. Plus, Luke is growing up and wants to stretch his legs.
Well, I thought it was boring in the original, but now thanks to the Special Editions and the prequels it's now bursting with activity and excitement! You got stadiums that hold Pod Racing events, ships flying in every angle of the sky, space pilots talking stories about Angels to little boys, and we even have a whole city of people who don't give a crap about the Empire singing in the streets with joy and happiness the moment the Empire falls. It's not that bad. heck, it's almost Vegas! That to me is a very boring place.
Oh, you do realize that there are many people in this world who live in deserts, don't you?
After reading Monroville's reply, I can sort of understand the points he brings up. When it comes to fan edits you can change and do whatever you want with them, but when all is said and done it is your work and your edit. However, with work can comes criticisms and opinions that you won't always agree with.
I think it's great Adywan that you put so much time into replying to a lot of these posts in this forum and it shows you want to do this project right to the best of your ability. You remove all the stuff that drove every Star Wars fan insane and corrected goofs that most major studios pay no mind to. I am in fact amazed by the work you have done by yourself and I wish you had other projects besides this where your work can really be called you own and appreciated without the fear of a C&D (Ok, bad joke. Sorry!)
Still, criticisms come with the territory. I'd like to bring about Monroville's post in regards to the "CG overhead view that really isn't necessary to tell the story". Well, I share this view but for different reasons. Your reasoning behind this is that it gives the sets a greater scale than what was presented originally. Well, does Mos Eisley really need to be scaled up and have a lot more activity going on? It went from being just a "space port" in the unaltered versions to a freaking city where a lot of interesting stuff goes on with the enhancements! If such a place like this exists and it's labeled as being just a "space port", why is this planet being generalized as desolate, barren and no fun? In the original version of Star Wars, it's not hard to see why Luke would want to leave this planet, but now with the Special Editions, it's just BURSTING with activity! I don't see why Luke is talking crap about Tatooine in general when all these enhancements make the place quite interesting. It's sort of like how they portrayed Anakin's life as a slave. His mother says he deserves better than a slaves life, but he has friends, gets to play with the other kids, race with pod racers in tournaments, earn money, get off work early, build his own robots, walk around the streets all by his own and he and his mother live in a two story townhouse with multiple rooms, tables, chairs, furniture and enough food to feed six people in one sitting!
Now, in regards to Cloud City's fly over, this is where I agree that we should see more of it like we did in the Special Editions. It not only shows Cloud City being portrayed as an actual city, but it also sets itself a part from the other areas we've experienced in Star Wars. And while Monroville's point of shots like these not moving the story forward, getting the perspective of a setting can be very important to set the mood for the characters. Enhancing a setting can work, but not all the time. When it came to enhancing Mos Eisley, the perspective we get doesn't really match Luke's description and distaste for the planet. Also, even in the special editions of both movies, Mos Eisley Space Port (Remember, on the most boring planet in the galaxy!) has more activity going on than Cloud City! But if you were to watch the original unaltered version of Mos Eisley and than Cloud City with the Special Edition enhancements, there's a much more distinguishing difference between the two.
Should the Carbon Chamber be enhanced? Naw. I think it's alright the way it is. I'm not saying this because I don't want to get into the prequel territory (even though if you did enhance the set it still wouldn't be outlandish as the prequels).
Now, if you want to talk about not getting into prequel territory in your edits, there's a particular special effect that occurs when a certain ship goes into hyperspace that happens in two of the three original Star Wars movies but not in any of the prequel movies. Should I say more? :D
Ziz said: But she doesn't use the Force anywhere in ROTJ, so what's the point of worrying about changing this? Changing it sounds like more "Lucasizing" of the OT - doing it because it CAN be done, not because it SHOULD be done - whereas Ady's intent has always been technical repairs and improvements first, narrative changes second (if at all).
I think you're taking this a little bit too rashly and not seeing the point I'm trying to make. Both Padme and Leia always get weaker and weaker in character as the movies progress. And even though I did say it was a poor suggestion, think about it for a bit. You use RotJ as a counter argument. I say screw that movie. Even though it's part of the original trilogy, I loath the direction it took. If anywhere in the Star Wars series needed to take the story down a different path, it would be after The Empire Strikes Back. So when I look at the possibilities that could have been done on Empire Strikes Back, I think back to Yoda's line "There is another". That 'another' from my point of view was always Leia. And I figured that after he says that line, and we get a little hint of what she might be capable of, that kind of brings those two moments together but not in a completely 100% way. It just opens the door to the possibility.
And I honestly won't care if the lines don't get deleted. Even though Adywan says this is not a preservation project, he sure as heck is doing a lot of preserving in areas that are aren't related to just visual and sound effects. He preserves the original pacing, character interactions and over all flow that the special edition versions now lack. So who am I to really get upset if he doesn't remove the lines when they were there in the first place? Either way, I'm happy. But if I was in that editing room when this film was getting completed, I would have suggested it.
This is just a suggestion, could very well be the worst one here, but do you think Luke's rescue from Cloud City would have been better if he "didn't" call out to Leia for help? I can't help myself but think that without his dialogue it would have made her a more self-sufficient character rather than the girl who the guys always latch on to. Cause the way I see it, her character hardly does anything in the movie. I think that if the force is with her and that she shares a bond with Luke, than sensing his distress wouldn't be so much different from Luke sensing Han and Leia's distress on Cloud City from earlier. Now granted that was like days before, but Sidious sensed that Lord Vader was in danger in Episode III during his duel with Obi-Wan (I can't believe I referenced that).
Again, just my idea. If Luke didn't call out for help after getting nothing from Ben, it'd sort of show how hopeless the situation was for him. And for Leia to sense his danger would be like a foreshadowing moment of her ability to use the force rather than just having her be the receiving end of a one way cell phone call.
- Jeyl
nohandluke said:
Totally agree, vbangle. Ady, you have the free pass to get ticked whenever (and whyever) you like.
Well, everyone can be whatever they want to, but if you're going to get very vocal and not understanding you might risk alienating some of your fans who read these forums. I'm very glad Adywan that you took your time to apologize. I like listening to people who know they should have limits and don't want to push people away.
How about just fixing Obi-Wan's perspective with the stump that Yoda is sitting on, and not have Yoda turn his head all the way to his side? I don't think Yoda has to 'look' all the way to see Obi-Wan's spirit to know that he's there. It's the Force! Jedi aren't supposed to rely heavily on their eyes.
ChainsawAsh said:It's not your edit. It's Ady's. He can do whatever the hell he wants. All we can do is make SUGGESTIONS, and if he says "No" to a SUGGESTION, why bother bringing it up again? It's just beating a dead horse.As Ady said, this isn't a "preservation" at ALL. If you're not happy with how it turns out, and you want a preservation, go watch the GOUT, or a PRESERVATION project.
Oh, don't get so excited ChainsawAsh. I'm not going to hunt Adywan down and force him to not change what he wants to change or tell everyone here that his new version sucks because of what he changed. I actually support Adywan's efforts in making his own unique version of the original movies because there is a lot more care that he's putting into it compared to the official Lucas DVDs. I'll just look at it in the long run and say that I can live without the spinning star field rather than live with a badly redubbed, reshot and remastered version that we currently have on DVD.
After all, if I can live with the flaws of the original trilogy, I think I can live with Ady's.
:)
adywan said: I explained before that the spinning starfield will eb gone, same as in ANH:R. I've never liked it at all.
I think you should be more open to preservation Ady. There is nothing wrong with having something you don't like in a film if others admire it. After all, Lucas always said that he was never happy with the original Star Wars movies, but did we complain? I don't think so, but he went ahead and changed them anyways. Now we have you, doing one heck of a good job but now it's the same thing all over again. Changing what's not broken that fans actually like.
adywan said:
So its gone. Discussion over. lol
Please, if I wanted a response like that I would have gone to Steve Sansweet's on stage presentation for the un-altered DVDs.
"the transfers from the bonus discs are absolutely incredible, because these are pristine master tapes, and I have never seen—despite what you may have heard on Internet rumours—a better transfer of a movie."
I have a question (and forgive me for bringing this up again). What is your final word on the spiraling Star Field when the Millennium Falcon goes into Hyperspace? I know you talked about consistency in visuals, but I personally believe that this instance doesn't need any visual tweaking for the sake of continuity. Everything in Star Wars whether it's blasters, lightsabers, space fighters, force effects or sound effects always have their own unique style compared to each other. It's kind of like why all the Hyperspace charging sound effects keep changing from movie to movie.
I know that the spiraling stars are not used in the prequel trilogy, but neither are the stretching stars from the cockpit point of view. And if you look at it from a technical stand point, the spiraling effect is used in 2/3 of the original trilogy! You could try and find a way to incorporate the stretching stars and spiraling star field into the prequels if you ever get around to them (I can think of a way to do the Naboo cruiser from Episode One going into hyperspace easily), kind of like with Jango's voice when he's wearing the helmet.
Believe me. The spiraling Star Field was not an accident that the crew just slapped on there, nor was it something that fans argued about or even disputed about. Heck, Lucas doesn't even have any issues with it! Isn't that a first? And as I've said before, the effect itself is even reproduced in a lot of Star Wars products like in Knights of the Old Republic! And like the movies, it's only reproduced if the circumstances are right. So why not leave it in? It doesn't hurt the story, disrupt the pace or bring up questions on how Hyperspace works. It's just a tiny little awesome element that works on it's own right that really does give it a bigger boost of energy that is not present in a static star field.
- Jeyl
Kurgan said:I just think it would look crappy to make all those interior scenes visibly red tinted and just isn't necessary.
I agree to a certain extent with this quote. If the AT-AT cockpit is red, why aren't all the other walkers and spaceships of the Empire have a red interior? Having all the imperials in a red lit room would look to out of place with the rest of the series.
adywan said: well i did it because only in ANH & ESB does the starfield rotate when you see a ship entering hyperspace. i all other movies it remains static (check out when the fleet jump to hyperspace in ROTJ). Also if the starfieilds rotate like that then doesn't that mean that the ship has to spin to get into hyperspace?
I believe I already mentioned the RotJ rotation as a "cheat" in my earlier post, but the reason why we don't see the rotating Star Field in the prequels is because there is no inner cockpit shot of the starfield stretching, and the camera angle not directly behind the ship at a close proximity when it goes into warp.
Also if the starfieilds rotate like that then doesn't that mean that the ship has to spin to get into hyperspace?
Not really. I always looked at that sequence as just an effect that happens when you're directly behind something that goes into Hyperspace. You know? Camera tricks. Star Wars has plenty of those.
You might also note that even though the rest of the Star Wars movies don't have the spinning star field effect, that doesn't mean other Star Wars material out there doesn't use it either. Take Knights of the Old Republic for instance. They have a shot with an inner cockpit set up with the stars stretching and than it cuts to them going into warp with the star field spinning. That was an awesome moment because they were taking visual elements from the original trilogy and not the prequel trilogy. Not everything visual wise in Star Wars has to make sense.
I actually asked the Star Wars website about why the prequels didn't feature any inner cockpit shots of the starfield stretching and Lucas actually responded saying that he wanted to keep the thrill of going into Hyperspace in the Millennium Falcon more exciting since he expects people to watch the movies in chronological order and that was a defining hyperspace moment.
And if you can't trust visual continuity, maybe it was the camera spinning on it's own. Now you'll probably ask "Than why doesn't the ship rotate as well?", and I would say that 'light' is a very complicated thing. They're moving faster than the speed of light, so the visual sight of them leaving will always be straight while the stars move around you. It's hokey, I know. But it's fun when you try to think up stuff when it comes to visuals like that. That's what makes Star Wars cool for me.
Hey Adywan!
Quick question. Why was the spiraling star field effect removed when the Falcon goes into Hyperdrive? I always thought it was a nice transition piece for the ship since warp tunnel they're in spirals as well (At least more obviously in Return of the Jedi).
It also from my perspective dulls the sequence of the Falcon escaping Tatooine a bit, especially in your cut. You have the Falcon making a much faster and more exciting exit, spinning around in circles avoiding enemy fire and than you just have it shrink in the distance. It looks more like an image of the Falcon being zoomed out with a star field in front of it rather than speeding it's way forward. Not saying you should show it at a different angle, but the spinning star field gave the effect a more exciting feel to it. Now there are exceptions to this like having multiple ships go into warp like in Jedi, but that's ok. We all cheat. :)