Jedi Temple34

TV's Frink said:

This needed its own thread?

You bring a question "?" mark to thread! Fail! 

Gredo doesn’t possibly stand a chance now! LOL

Boba is everywhere. He even popped into today for a cup a tea and kit-kat because he was on break.

Falcon constructed in Wales UK the best of the best makes the best.

I hope, you, don’t mind the frequency waterfalls that was taken with spectrumlab to record the last 2 octaves of the lower end from the DVD DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 version.

If I recall this 8 minutes x 6 took around 48 minutes to 2 hours after doing the screen captures I should have expanded the screen size on the powerplay DVD so that the blow-ups wouldn’t look so edgy or rough on the picture at least the colour there.

The site here as copped off the edges a few inches. 

The way the frequency graph works, is that its read from bottom to top as that is where it’s paused or stopped during the recording of the frequency graph.

So now we have more screen captures and frequency waterfalls that shows the strength of the force in DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 THX.

The LFE.1 only comes in as and when called for and should only support the scene not overwhelm it with boomy sound because that’s just rubbish sound then. If the lows in you’re are reaching around the sofa/seating area uniformly one tone at time after PEQ as been applied, you might need more than one x1 subs to get equal smoothness and the laws still apply it should never be allowed to overwhelm it should mealy accompany the mix.

If you, think you, have weak spots in the sub bass range don’t force it to play any louder that it is. You risk putting strain on the sub you’ll pushing it to the point of possible amplifier clipping, distortion builds up, and its bye-bye sub bass!      

“Kill them!” “Shoot them”!

Details on the THX WOW laserdisc

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/19090/THX-WOW/THX-WOW!-(1990)

Its basically a fast paced edited clips to showcase the ability of paned effects over LCR to smoother panned effects moving over to the surrounds or surrounds over to one of the LCR as well as showing off sub bass extension that’s stripped from the main fronts to mealy give tonal body strength in the last 2 octaves.

I saw the laserdisc version demonstrated a few times around early 90’s.

I have it on DVD now with slight new sound effect added in I think this is one of the Willow scenes where Madmartigan flips the sword.

Warbler said:

Jedi Temple34 said:]Sometimes they just go too far, deviating away from article historical facts or even the science physics. Like in "Apollo 13" (1995) “the clock is running”.   

it is my understanding that Apollo 13 is rather accurate.

Did you take a while to ever listen to the audio commentary as its explained a bit clear, what was accurate and what scenes had bit poetic licence.

Warbler said:

 

Bingowings said:

Qualify point 1 and who else would have made Schindler's Ark into Schindler's List?

are you saying you have a problem with the change in name?

are you saying Schindler's List wasn't accurate to the book?

 

Film always uses a bit of poetic licence here and there you have to expect it today. Sometimes they just go too far, deviating away from article historical facts or even the science physics. Like in "Apollo 13" (1995) “the clock is running”.   

Well that doesn’t start till the vehicle is actually moving it was done along with editing music and sound effects to get us, all excited. Mind you it did work I did get excited. :D

I think those times in WWII where deeply depressing and the film and short documentaries images are burnt into my memory it was atrocious how one man can be panicked by a people who couldn’t care less about him would want them, all executed from existence is sheer murder anyway you slice it.

Hitler chose the easy way out otherwise he and his family would be hanging out to dry like his buddy Mussolini. There are some shocking videos on youtube too sickening to watch, but that his how Hitler would have ended up.

I‘m not sure but isn’t there a basic feature that allows those with difficulties in reading other languages featured on Google some type of translator from (English to German) or have I, gotten this confused with something else?

I feel the board/forum should have the means of universal language switching for individuals as STAR WARS is an international phenomenon not just aimed at English speaking counties but all counties worldwide.

xhonzi said:

For those of you complaining that JT34 is upset about nothing important, and that the basis on which one buys or does not buy the Blu Ray should be whether it includes the original version, or not and not whether it is in DD or DTS... please consider the following:

1. I concede, as have many of you, that we will not get a proper OOT release again until after Lucas's accidental and untimely death.

2. JT34 is almost upset enough about Blu Ray and DTS-MA that he would single handedly arrange an accidental and untimely end for the plaided fellow (see point 1).

3. Almost isn't going to do it folks.

I conclude my case.

Its like bread its like milk if I went around the corner with you’re money and brought you the wrong bread and milk, lets see how upset you’ll be!

Its like Dolby and dts its like milk and bread or two brands of each milk and bread. I prefer DOLBY is that too hard to grasp.

Its like do you want you’re cup of tea swimming in sludge of sugar that would taste like dtsHDMA to me! I don’t want the extra sweeter of bits get it!

Its like toast do I want it kinder tanned like DOLBY or charcoaled to crisp with dtsHDMA no I want it tanned like not overdone.

Its like will the bits improve my lifestyle on dtsHDMA. No I want DOLBY TRUE-HD because its me that is paying for the product for my own home personal entrainment, but oh, no the studios are above us “the paying consumer” and the customer is always RIGHT!

Adywan if you’re on some type of mediation I’ll go a bit easier then as it can be hard to follow text just as if it verbal conversation, sorry about that.

I have days that I can’t deal with stress I’m slave to my cat who always needs petting love care and attention so I’d be lucky to get some time for myself without having to feed him every so often greedy cat.

captainsolo said:

From my own experience: If a film soundtrack is released on home video in DTS and Dolby the difference is that the DTS track has a higher bitrate. DTS overall has a higher bitrate and on some films will sound much more dynamic. It really depends on the film and equipment.

What is the difference in Blu-ray codecs? I thought that these were lossless. I'm a complete Blu novice so I really don't know much of anything about these new codecs and such. I'm thinking that everyone is using DTS because it has always held more information. What should be done is simply use whichever method the film was designed for in the best possible quality. Dolby is synonymous with the OT, but that may not exactly translate to HD. None of this will likely matter since Lucasfilm has been busy at work on another new soundtrack. Why I don't know because the 97 was perfect.

Ady, did the 97 DTS really sound that much better than the Dolby mix? Not sure what I heard in theaters back then.

Between switching Dolby digital to dts on “Top Gun” bluray regionB the dts is down by -2db on the SPL db metre.

Saving Private Ryan 2 region2 / two-disc edition that was released years ago the dts is down by -2db the DOLBY DIGITAL wins!

Often its loudness scam to trick or fool you into believing dts is better.

When Jurassic Park opened at UCI Tower Park the only cinema processors in all 10 screens was a DOLBY CP65 with type A/SR. SR had a slightly higher bottom end with mild higher top end the middle range was more less the same to keep it within type A Dolby mixes.

Tower Park was one of the first cinemas that I started out as projectionist.

I was only with the site for short while and in-between that time, often the house Dolby fader was set to 5 or 5.5 rarely was it ever set to mark “7” 85db reference level.

dts has higher dynamic range but that doesn’t make it so. If the chief projectionist wants the fader at 5 he’ll write this on wipe board adds/trailers was set at different fader level main feature sigh, it was just typical.

When Tango & Cash played in DolbySR in one of the main large screens then after a few weeks it moved to smaller screen and depending on who’s on duty as there was four of us during the day on shifts.

One of the younger projectionist about my age, well they just turned the fader right on the opening of Tango & Cash to mark “10” “okay lets do it” with thumping bass rhythm that must have filtered some low end into the surrounds and busted in one of the 5 surrounds.

x5 surrounds you might think that’s a rather odd number? The way it worked was 1 was placed right at the back as it was narrow then as you walk down further in it widens out a bit, with two more surrounds on each side.

The surrounds at the time where all fitted to the ceiling and worked fine. Often they attached to the sidewalls as long as they produced defocused defused surround you won’t be able to tell unless one of them rattles or buzzes because some prat turned the fader up to mark “10”.

The bass/mid was lousy and rarely made an impact depending on where you’re sat, slightly bit to the front centre middle you’d get fair satisfactory bass/mid from the three-screen.

Sub bass should have been mandatory in all 10 screens as Dolby recommends it for type SR. At least x2 to x3 subs in the larger 2 screens to allow a bit of extra headroom.

x1 to x2 subs in the smaller screens.

Over the years after I left I noticed they installed DOLBY CP500 that I can see from the auditorium though the port window. No doubt new amplifiers and new surrounds now fitted to the sidewalls and yes a sub in each screen only x1 in each of the x10 screens tight bastards.

E.T. in Dolby SR-D sounded rubbish it was so flat and dull no doubt the fader was set way below “7” projectionists think they know best and 85dbc might seem loud to some it’s only the middle highs to highs that makes one say “turn that f%)king volume down!” because its so annoyingly hush without low end that presses on you’re body.

UCI High Wycombe screen 1 where I took a trip with friend to see Arachnophobia in DolbySR THX had bad ass low end from screen channels and down though to the sub bass extension, with only x2 subs as the cinema was medium large but it was sussed out unlike the other crappy UCI screens I been too.

The lows on the THX intro was pressing on my body within the first few seconds and grew deep as the range scaled upwards in db level it was pure and seamless without any noticeable gaps between the last two octaves it was tight and moved over my front part body the seat vibrated as it should do.

The opening titles to the film was WOW it had smooth loudness it was loud that I had to raise my voice about 80 or so db to my friend that was sat to my right/side middle row. I remember seeing an older guy sat right behind me and he was smiling because the JBL THX sound system specs delivered!

One other UCI cinema at Lee Valley where I want for an interview, didn’t get the job on the site no matter, I remember seeing a Face/Off before the interview (free) in one of the mid size screens and it was just too bloody loud! It was rubbish it was all top end! I saw at least 4 Asian people get up after reel 2 was into its first 6 minutes and walk out!

Face/off was presented in DolbySR-D

After interview I saw Alien Resurrection in one of the two large main screens with a very high ceiling if I recall. It was dts and again it sounded rubbish! It was all top end it was nothing like the CIC/UCI Empire Leicester Square screen 1 or High Wycombe.

I believe there was one other UCI THX screen in the UK in Birmingham that had x2 THX screens and that didn’t last long before they dumped the THX licence same with High Wycombe towards the end of the 90’s.

The Empire also dumped there’s more or less within a few months apart.

Today the Empire has its THX certification back along with most powerful THX screen in the whole of Europe 56KW JBL sound system.

To think Lucas was last in there around 2005 only they didn’t have THX or JBL they had crappy Martin Audio sound system that was pants when I saw Gladiator in 2000, after which I didn’t bother go back till they had the refit done.

Transformers was middles crap anyway only the sound effects was worthy of listening. The Empire still has mild reverberation time that take a few seconds to decay. And with crappy Michael Bay film with bullet-time dialogue at 100 words per second doesn’t give it enough time to decay to understand “WTF did they just say”?

If it mild slow dialogue its easy to follow and rarely does that happen in Transformers because its middles retarded geeks film with words like “no, no no, no, no, no” what f$ucking kinder language is that suppose to be?

Never saw Transformers2 Bay can f%*king well keep it! I did buy Transforms on DVD R2 because of the reference sound/sound effects was cutting edge NOT! I just wanted it because I saw it at the Empire and it sounds fine loud enough for my JBL sound system, can’t understand why everyone else is having bluray LFE.1 issues with it, idiots!

For my living room I use up to x5 JBL control 5 x3 of which are modified to run with an electronic crossover.

up to x12 JBL control 1 surrounds x3 per each sidewall x4 for centre back and two matrix overheard surrounds that does work on certain films with decent enough split-stereo surround mix.

I use x1 main large sub for LFE.1 with Dolby digital and rarely dts laserdisc and no choice with bluray dtsHDMA titles sigh.

1x sub for bass extension of LCRS, often if a film is Dolby stereo matrix I switch the bass extension on the AVR to manual for the main sub bass the lows go down a bit lower and higher but its kept within the normal frequency response as I don’t want large levels drowning out the bass mid over LCRS.

The surrounds are all matched to frequency response and SPL db for single front channel.

The surrounds are spaced apart to create a defused surround without running the THX as that only ruins the surround with an annoying whooshing like sound on right surround its circuit that cerates an in and out pumping like effect to give a defused openness to the x2 over priced THX dipolar surrounds, its really rubbish.

I haven’t used the THX in getting on for a few years now it’s a logo badge that doesn’t decode the sound and there are far better ways around this to get a dogs bollocks sound in the home.

LCD video projector I hard use now because home cinema doesn’t make profit and projector lamps cost a lot of money even thou they run longer than xenon lamps which have short service life, because they burn brighter and hotter as well and are highly explosive if mishandled in booth.

Before I run a film each day I test the sound system with AVR narrow band pink noise just to let me know its still working as faults can crop up anytime. all channels have there own amps for LCR LF/HF surrounds and subs as well and new parts now and then being added on to make subtle sound improvements none of this total upgrade AVR nonsense every few years, as that is where they make the money.

Always buy an AVR that offers RCA phone outputs most today even the cheap models don’t support this anymore only the overpriced models do and the power or flexibility it offers rubbish, because I’d be back at square one and I don’t like to start all over again.

adywan said:

Jedi Temple34 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKNrK53uA84

I just watched STAR WARS rebel death star attack re-visited and laugh my ass off when the Tie-Fighters appeared in the hundreds! Red leader to gold leader we’re f%*ucked!

What has my edit got anything to do with this topic? And what's so funny about it? please explain what you meant by this comment

Bingowings said:

Have you ever wondered what's it like to be wanderers in the The Firth of Forth dimension? Have you? To be exiles?

Classic Hartnell :)

It was funny! You know funny when the tie-fighters approach in the hundreds rather than a few handful LOL nice one funny.

Its better now there on youtube at least I can watch them even thou they lag sometimes but at least I can watch it! nice one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKNrK53uA84

I just watched STAR WARS rebel death star attack re-visited and laugh my ass off when the Tie-Fighters appeared in the hundreds! Red leader to gold leader we’re f%*ucked! 

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

captainsolo said:

I doubt anyone would ever go back and actually release the original mixes, let alone all of them and the 70mm.

I personally believe that after GL dies, a real restoration will be done including all of the sound mixes. It's a no-brainer.

But I heard that Lucas is put into carbon freeze once in while to expand his lifespan.LOL

It’s funny how we, like him, and yet hate him, for all the wrong things.

I saw a rare 35mm print Dolby type A around early 1990’s at the Odeon and seeing the difference in wider shots like when the helicopters approach the beach, wow! The VHS was all cropped off on the sides. Later brought the DVD around 2000’s and again SIGH both of which as you know cropped off! SIGH

So its been released again and dtsHDMA doesn’t f%)king Dolby have control over this or do they enjoy being walked over, it was Dolby that made this film a classic as a widely publicized film on 70mm release even thou Superman the movie was the first film to use split-stereo surrounds 1978.

Bingowings said:

I'm not buying another Star Wars boxset until it's in 11D.

Chateau Bingowings is smaller on the inside than it is on outside. I don't have room for a screen bigger than 28 inches, I don't have room for a surround sound set up of any description and if I did I would have too much respect for my next door neighbours to turn the thing on.

I have the DVDs, none of which I watch anymore because the various projects provided by this organ and others are made with more love, more care and more attention than Lucas and his 'professionals' have demonstrated for decades.

I can only buy the same film so many times in my finite lifespan and if they couldn't get the DVDs right I have very little confidence that this set will be much better.

Lucas if you want me to get your discs come here and build me a bare wall big enough for a screen to play them on without my living room looking like something out of 1984 (it's a book kids) and while you are at it put a binaural sound mix on there so I can get 3D sound through my headphones.

Hear, hear, hear...agreed on all counts of this post!

adywan said:

Jedi Temple34 said:

When were you in the UK to see STAR WARS 1997 special editions? Which UCI sites and can you still recall the screen number?

I've been in the UK all my life.

Jedi Temple34 said:

 

F%&k it then! I’ll just buy the region1DVD at cheap price, least I’ll be listening to it in DOLBY STEREO DIGITAL 5.1.

 

Good luck with that, especially with Episode 4. Enjoy the reversed music surround channels, the horrible dialogue mixing from different takes, Sound effects coming from the wrong front channels, distorted LFE track, and Music dialled down so low that it disappeared in some scenes, most notably during the Death Star attack. None of these problems existed in the theatrical mixes, as the laserdisc 5.1 proves.

So what would you prefer? A Dolby mix with all these problems or a DTS mix that is flawless?

If these were going to be the unaltered trilogy then i would be all for a dolby mix that contains the 70mm tracks and original theatrical mixes, along with a new 5.1` mix, but they aren't so nit really doesn't matter

Oh, don’t I seem like a f$^king asshole then? LOL I thought you were American?

Umm, let me think about that for a year and bit and I’ll let you know after I’ve had my next lobotomized treatment session

Well I have no listening issues with the DVD 2004 I’ve made a few special modifications myself with dynamicEQ via the Behinger DCX2496 to allow me, to hear/listen to the centre information DME without the competition of left/right masking the centre channel mix. Left and right is played at an easier level overall LCR plays fine without ear busting ear fatigue.

85dbc is plenty loud enough from 2.7 meters.

I have the laserdisc editions 1997 and two Pioneer laserdisc players only they don’t have Dolby AC-3 thou there are plenty of Pioneer CLD-925 going at crazy low prices on ebay today, I might as k a friend to buy one and oi’ll pay him, upfront with cash.

Still I think it needs a RF demodulator to run on my Kenwood AVR.

I was watching ALIEN on CAV laserdisc last night and even that as different mix even thou its DOLBY STEREO matrix.

When the acid burns though the hull and they run down the floor levels and find that the acid is slowing down there is music que musical sound that is not heard in any of the DVD editions!

The directors-cut has the centre phantom left and right sound mix now mixed onto the centre discrete which makes it tougher to hear the softer sounds like when the crew exits the ship and hollowing wind blowing on left and right masks parts of the Foley footstep mix, not here no problem listening to that now.

One sets up the AVR using ether the basic pink noise that cycles around LCRS which is the primary listening channels all channels ideally should sound the same from the moment the tone leaves left it should sound the same on centre but its miles off! By the time it arrives at right sounds kinder close depending on where left/right are placed!

Then over to surrounds it takes on different tone.

If you used an audio mixer and sent all five channels into the mixer and out to a single loudspeaker and used an SPL db metre to balance each channel for the same level say 70dbc (for comfortable level) by the time you finished balancing the levels the tone will (sound like continuous pink noise) until you change one of the EQ on the mixer the whole thing collapses and one channel stands out against the rest.

I have a few films with DOLBY dianorm on DVD still it’s the same listening without dianorm centre mix is odd channel that tends to get masked most times.

I have rare video recording where Pinewood film mixer explains the issues. I need to get new or second VCR as my Hi-Fi VCR as worn head drum, then I can post it on youtube.

adywan said:

Jedi Temple34 said:

Look I respect what you do don’t even try that “dts in selected theatres” on me. I saw Empire in dts at UCI Tower Park screen 6, rubbish!

Don't even try that "dts in selected theatres" on you? I was merely stating a fact. And you say it was rubbish? I guess your UCI has a really crappy sound system (which most UCI's i have visited have had crappy systems) then because i saw the SE in both Dolby and DTS and the DTS version blew the other away. The dynamic range and clarity of the DTS track was amazing. The dolby track was just flat compared.

Jedi Temple34 said:

 

So it was also in few SDDS houses if they could care about using the SDDS6.

Not a format used by either Blu-Ray or DVD so this really doesn't matter

Jedi Temple34 said:

 

Its like a 35mm print and cinema sound rack system housing DOLBY dts and SDDS6/8 decoder the cinema as a choice in what to use for playback! With bluray we don’t get a choice now is that in anyway unclear?

Who do you think you are talking to me like that just because i don't agree with your over the top rants? How many films do you know available that only have a dolby track and don't give anyone the choice of a DTS track, even though the movie may have only been seen at the cinemas in DTS?? Most of them, but i don't see you ranting about that

At the end of the day i'm more concerned about the quality of a product than what sound format is used. If it contained a dolby and DTS track and the DTS was superior then i would use that one and vice versa.

This whole argument is like someone saying:

"i grew up watching Star Wars on VHS so there is no way i'm going to watch it on Blu-ray because this is not the format i originally saw it on."

Jedi Temple34 said:

 For me it’s a big deal it’s a vintage iconic Dolby film mix and Fox knows this and Lucasfilm Skywalker sound, knows this to be true, they obviously don’t give a hoot they’d sooner grab the money from the sales.

Some on blutay.com was wishing for 7.1 and that is going too far…! SIGH

7.1 is going to f%*k up a lot of classic 70mm 6trcak mixes mark my words.

But this isn't an iconic film mix. It isn't even the original SE film mix on the DVD's. And they have never used a 70mm film mix on any of the star wars films when released. 5.1 mixes aren't even the same as a 70mm soundtrack of the star wars movies and that uses Dolby, so your argument falls completely flat there. They are new mixes so it really doesn't matter which house is used to encode the soundtrack now does it? Or do you just not get that?

EvilSupes said:

I'm curious what's the source on this DTS-MA news?

I just pulled it out of my ass.  It was starting to get a bit dead in here so i thought i would liven things up a bit. It was all just for fun and no disrespect was meant towards anyone, including JT34

When you're on as many painkillers as i am at the moment it screws with your head a bit and my mischievous side comes out to play. ;)

Look mate I don’t want to get queer with you, I respect what you do.

When were you in the UK to see STAR WARS 1997 special editions? Which UCI sites and can you still recall the screen number?

My cat even has a rant! He scrapes the kitchen floor for more cat food roles his bowl around for nearly 5 minutes now that’s cat with issues! LOL

F%&k it then! I’ll just buy the region1DVD at cheap price, least I’ll be listening to it in DOLBY STEREO DIGITAL 5.1.

Chewtobacca said:

Jedi Temple34 said:

For me it’s a big deal it’s a vintage iconic Dolby film mix and Fox knows this and Lucasfilm Skywalker sound, knows this to be true, they obviously don’t give a hoot they’d sooner grab the money from the sales.  To each of our own, in ways STAR WARS visual images is religious to some and others it would be sound mix.

I understand what you mean about the vintage mixes, and quite a few people around here might agree with you about small differences in the audio mix being as important to them as small changes in the video.  For me, unless Luke says "Blast it, Biggs" rather than "Blast it, Wedge" in ANH it is not quite the same.  Stupid, but true!

With the surround sound, I do not think you would notice that much of a difference if it were encoded to Dolby Digital or DTS, as long as the mix that was being encoded was the same.  By the way, is it confirmed that the Star Wars Blu-rays will be 5.1 not 7.1?

Regarding Raise the Titanic, it does seem hard to find Dolby Digital 5.1.   There is a German Dolby Digital 5.1 track, but only English 2.0 on most releases.  If I can find a 5.1 mix, I shall let you know.

…and vice versa as well with English 5.1 and German 2.0 on some titles. Raiders as a lower end on the German 2.0 over the Dolby English 5.1 mix.

Who knows I might calm the f%*k down by then but that means I’m weak minded and giving into the dark side LOL. Got be strong and I need to keep saying this again and again with fierce conviction, I’m not buying STAR WARS on bluray,

I’d sooner wait for an English Dolby 5.1 mix of “Raise the Titanic” to come out, as I don’t have it, in my DVD collection. I have enough STAR WARS films on disc to sink the Titanic many times over, if you get my meaning.

Chewtobacca said:

 

Jedi Temple34 said:If this was HD-DVD it would be mandatory to use Dolby True-HD

 

Well, not quite mandatory for Dolby TrueHD itself, as many HD DVDs did not use it, but I agree that if HD DVD were still about the Star Wars discs would probably have at least a Dolby Digital Plus track.  Still, Blu-ray and DTS-HD MA are here to stay, and much as it would be nice to have older audio mixes on discs we shall both have to become used to it. Come on, Jedi Temple34, it is not that bad! :-)

I can see where you’re coming from you seemed more relaxed about LOL. For me it’s a big deal it’s a vintage iconic Dolby film mix and Fox knows this and Lucasfilm Skywalker sound, knows this to be true, they obviously don’t give a hoot they’d sooner grab the money from the sales.

Some on blutay.com was wishing for 7.1 and that is going too far…! SIGH

7.1 is going to f%*k up a lot of classic 70mm 6trcak mixes mark my words.

To each of our own, in ways STAR WARS visual images is religious to some and others it would be sound mix.

can we talk about Raise the Titanic as that is bit hard to get on DVD in 6trcak DOLBY STEREO often it would be panned and scanned version with mono sound or widescreen version in DOLBY STEREO matrix, why it’s a classic film even thou there are some inaccuracies, as it was only discovered mid 80’s.