Odd, I tried the LUT in DaVinci and the same thing still happened. I’ll try to see if I can install Premiere on my Windows partition and see if all works there.
Could you send me the LUT file?
I’m really curious to know, which home video release first introduced the red cast in the bar? It really changes the atmosphere.
I recently bought the first laserdisc release from 1984. However, I don’t own a laserdisc player, so I should have it transfered to dvd. It’s pan and scan, but I guess it still has some historic significance.
That’s the first home video release. I have the VHS version, I’ll track it down and take a look. The next transfer was in 1991 for the widescreen LD and VHS, I’ll check that too.
The scenes in 1981 making of have the correct color.
Did you get a chance to take a look at those home video releases?
I’ve tested the LUT’s created by the color matching tool v1.2, using DaVinci Resolve at a number of different settings, and I don’t have the problems with the blown out highlights that were reported. The LUTs are created in exactly the same way as the regraded frames within the GUI itself, which is why I thought it was very odd, that the LUT itself would have issues. The LUT itself also looks right. Here’s my result using the example that I was given:
Source:
Reference:
Regrade:
The only explanation I have, is that the program used to interpret the LUT uses a flawed method of interpolation, leading to the reported artifacts.
The time consuming regrading process has begun.
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
The process I will be using, is to first do a complete regrade of the WOWOW. I will subsequently look for shots, that will need replacement by alternative sources, such as the bluray. The final regrade should be completely synced to the bluray.
I’m still running into some problems when using LUTs exported from ColorMatch. It appears to only happen in scenes with blown out highlights
The reason I’m using LUTs is that my only machine is (sigh) a Mac. I have a small Windows partition to run the ColorMatch program, but I can’t do much editing on there though due to the size of the partition.
Could you send me the original frame, and the reference? I will see if I can fix it.
Will this be a BD25 or BD50?
The current plan is to do the initial release as a 30-40 GB mkv, so a bluray version will be BD50.
Here are two more regraded frames.
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
It’s this shot.
The 5 stars are clear in the 35mm, faint in the wowow and removed in the blu. A minor change, but a digital change nonetheless.
Here’s how the regrade looks for the star shot.
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
There are some compression artifacts visible in the regraded frame, but this is most likely due to the fact, that I’m using a bluray recompression of the WOWOW for the current test examples, as is evident when I apply the color matching model to the similar WOWOW frame posted by litemaker, which does not show the artifacts:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
I renamed the tool, and started again at v1.0, so we’re almost back at v1.3.
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
Since you’re replacing some shots anyway, are you going to drop in the shots that are not altered for the Blu Ray?
That’s the plan…
Okay, I must have missed something then.
Not really, I never said I would do it. 😉
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
Since you’re replacing some shots anyway, are you going to drop in the shots that are not altered for the Blu Ray?
That’s the plan…
The color matching tool v1.2 released! Please send me a PM, if you’re interested.
I’ve further improved the color matching algorithm, such that any artifacts in the resulting image are further reduced. Here is a regrade, based on this upgraded algorithm.
Bluray:
Screener:
Bluray matched to screener:
Bluray matched to screener with corrected black levels:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/180141
The comparison shows, that the regrade has significantly more shadow detail, when compared to the bluray, even with the corrected black levels.
I also noticed that not only the bluray, but also the WOWOW suffers from the effects of DNR, although to a lesser extend. Here’s an example of such a frame. The difference in detail between the bluray and the WOWOW is especially apparent, if I regrade the bluray to match the colors of the WOWOW.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Bluray matched to WOWOW:
Note that both the WOWOW and the bluray have less detail than the 35mm, despite the higher contrast in the brighter areas of the WOWOW, compared to the 35mm. As such, the regrade will have less detail than the 35mm for such frames, but more detail than the bluray.
35mm LPP:
Bluray:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
I think the outside shot of Indy looks ok, it’s the indoor shots that look odd. Try reducing shadows a bit without pumping up the overall contrast, that shouldn’t cause artifacts and will get closer to the look of the 35mm. I think you should be able to find a happy medium.
I think I solved the problem, such that I can keep the LPP contrast without adjustments and without artifacts, so no happy medium is required luckily.
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?
Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
After running some tests, I noticed, that the difference between the contrast levels of the WOWOW, and the LPP is problematic in some instances, causing artifacts. I therefore decided to try and use the WOWOW exposure levels to correct for this, thereby providing an estimate for the look of the original IP, rather than a 35mm print. Here are three example regrades, using this method.
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
I’m really curious to know, which home video release first introduced the red cast in the bar? It really changes the atmosphere.
I recently bought the first laserdisc release from 1984. However, I don’t own a laserdisc player, so I should have it transfered to dvd. It’s pan and scan, but I guess it still has some historic significance.
There is some dark blue noise in the bluray jpg. I’m not sure if this is, because of compression, or if it’s part of the source? If it’s just in the jpg, the black levels can be raised, without introducing artifacts.
I’m still looking for a good example with the stars. Do you have a frame number for the LPP litemaker?
Here’s a frame from the Cairo sequence.
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
My only argument for using the BD as a source rather than the WOWOW is that the BD restores several original shots that remain digitally altered in the WOWOW. Such as the sea-plane matte painting and the red “travelling line” sequence (I’m sure there are other examples but these are the only two that come to mind).
Conversely, the lamp that Indy and Marion are tied to in the opening of the ark sequence was digitally illuminated in the BD whereas it should be off. Not sure whether the WOWOW has the lamp on or off.
Perhaps just a few replacement shots from the BD would be best overall.
The WOWOW has the lamp off. I suppose a few replacement shots from the bluray could be used. Does anyone have a list of the shots that were altered for the WOWOW, but not for the bluray?
Another shot altered in the BD is also from the opening of the ark. The close-up of the top of the pillar of fire in the clouds has stars behind it, but in the Blu-ray the stars are removed and it is just a dark sky background. This is a weird change, I wonder if the DNR or cleanup process identified the stars as specs of dirt and removed them?
The shot is correct in the Wowow.
I’m curious to see how that scene comes out overall in your regrade. There are several over exposed shots (which are much worse in the blu-ray).
I won’t be able to work on it before tomorrow, but it will be the next example.
Turisu said:
Conversely, the lamp that Indy and Marion are tied to in the opening of the ark sequence was digitally illuminated in the BD whereas it should be off. Not sure whether the WOWOW has the lamp on or off.Can I see some screenshots of this?
Also, how’s the matching tool do for the bar scene?
Here’s an example for the bar scene.
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
