Darth Bizarro

skyjedi2005 said:

Ever since they made Boba Fett not a Mandalorian and were talking bringing Maul back alive i lost interest completely in the series.

Mauls Brother and Maul being Male Dathomir Nightsisters was idiotic, the back-story on mauls race in the Kotor games completely disregarded.

So you gave up on something in the EU because it contradicted something else in the EU?  That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The Nightsisters and the Nightbrothers are a group, not a race.  Maul and Savage are still Zabraks, but they are part of a particular group of Zabraks who are enslaved by the Nightsisters called Nightbrothers.  

Furthermore, the Dathomirians are the result of a hybrid of human DNA and Zabrak.  So in other words, the Zabrak you've seen in other stuff isn't contradicted by Clone Wars because the Dathomirians came from the Zabraks, not the other way around.

danaan said:

Meh. More proof that SW is going down hill. They're trying to patch up flaws in the PT by retrofitting the Saga in the TV shows:

1) The return of Darth Maul. Sure, DM was underutilized in the PT. But resurrecting him only makes things worse.

2) Introducing the Mandalorians now only underlines that they should have been a major antagonist in the PT to begin with, and that the whole "Boba Fett is a Clone" is not well thought out.

3) The Emperor should never, ever have a lightsaber. Let alone two. Yuck!! That image alone is enough for me to not touch the season with a pair of pliers.

4) Having Anakin be angrier only serves to underline the imcompetence of the Jedi even more. I mean, how many hints to those guys need to pick up the fact that he's got issues and need some frikking therapy already!

In short - no, this is not what SW should be.

How exactly does fixing the flaws make Star Wars as a whole worse?  And even if they were fixes for the worse, ala Greedo, I would hardly call that proof.

1.  He had no character whatsoever in TPM, how does bringing him back and giving him an actual identity make things worse.  Furthermore, he wasn't resurrected, he never died to start with.

2.  How does introducing a secondary set of villains prove that they should have been in the movies.  That's like saying that having the Black Sun appear as villains in Shadows of the Empire proves that they should have been in Empire Strikes Back.

3.  First, the idea of whether the Emperor should or should not have a light-saber is entirely a mater of opinion, not forgone fact (same thing with Yoda BTW).  But even if that weren't up for debate, how exactly is the Emperor going to defend himself against two attackers simultaneously both of whom are wielding double bladed lightsabers with only one lightsaber.  He needs two so he can block two simultaneous attacks.

4.  Having Anakin become angry slowly as the show progresses helps make his fall to the dark side more believable than simply going all at once.  Anakin has had moments where he's dipped a little close to the dark side throughout the series and he always bounces back.  It's called foreshadowing.  BTW, Luke did the exact same thing in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, getting angry at Yoda, Ben, Vader, the Emperor.  And he didn't fall to the dark side.  You could also argue that Obi-wan walked dangerously close to the dark side when he lashed out at Maul, or what about Mace Windu prepared to strike down a disarmed Palpatine.  There's a big difference between having a moment where you loose control of your emotions and sitting around constantly brooding.  The Jedi teach to let go of your anger, not suppress it.  You will get angry, but as a Jedi you need to be able to let it go.  You can't make an accurate distinction about whether or not the Jedi should have been able to see Anakin's fall to the dark side when you're looking at it through the goggles of hindsight.  It always seems so obvious after the fact, doesn't it, but I've never seen one of my friends or coworkers in a moment of frustration and immediately think to myself, wow, that guy is probably going to come in tomorrow and decapitate a bunch of children.  

<blockquote>
<p><strong>Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda</strong> said:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>Darth Bizarro</strong> said:</p>
<p>If you ask me, I think we have every right to think George Lucas is being an ass for withholding the original trilogy, but beyond that it's all subjective and every one has the right to like what they want without decent from others.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't care what people like.&nbsp; But I resent people who support the suppression of film history, as I would resent people who support burning books.&nbsp; I see no reason to respect that, because it goes beyond personal preference - it is denying others' access to history.</p>
<p>Now, if someone preferred the prequels and the SE, but also supported restoring the originals on principle, I would respect that person immensely despite our differences in aesthetic preference.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>On the same page we are.</p>

<p>Looks entertaining. &nbsp;I'd still rather see a Clone Wars style rebellion era series but I've got no problem doing stuff like this any more than stuff like Lego Star Wars. &nbsp;</p>
<p>Some of the youtube comments I've read have been a bit on the extreme side citing this show as the thing that has somehow officially ruined Star Wars.</p>

Star Wars Purist said:

I talk to people who bash me for preferring the OOT and ignoring the Prequels and CGI Clone Wars show from my personal sense of continuity.  Yeah, it's nothing new.  To think that guy actually thinks "Episode IV: A New Hope" added to the crawl helps the movie (when it, in actuality, turns the film from being duly recognized as the original and eponymous film/installment of a huge series it later spawned, for better or for worse, to just the "fourth" one in a film series which only includes one other masterpiece, one very good film, and three pieces of shlock).  The Praxis effect is obnoxious and doesn't fit in with the visuals of the film in the least, and further tinkering with the other films hasn't helped either (which had great brief performances by great actors replaced in cases). Cracked usually has some interesting pop-science/culture. etc humor, and it can lead you to look up stuff and laugh every now and again, but a lot of the time, the writers are barely that well versed in what they're writing and don't dig deep enough.  I wish I could have read the original Cracked Magazine, the supposedly spectacular evil, darker twin of Mad, because I have a feeling the Cracked franchise has degenerated in much the same way as Star Wars has in the past decades...

Seriously.  You get bashed for only liking the original trilogy.  Last I checked it mostly seems like it's the other way around with the people who only like the original trilogy bashing people who like the rest.  I've heard accusations like these new fans are ruining Star Wars by encouraging Lucas to continue to fuck up and these fans are stupid for liking sub-par movies. 

If you ask me, I think we have every right to think George Lucas is being an ass for withholding the original trilogy, but beyond that it's all subjective and every one has the right to like what they want without decent from others.

<blockquote>
<p><strong>johnlocke2342</strong> said:</p>
<p>Hi.</p>
<p>We all hate most of Lucas' changes since the 1981 re-release of Star Wars.&nbsp;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't hate most of the changes. &nbsp;I hate some of the changes. &nbsp;What I hate is not having the choice to watch whichever one I'm in the mood for without seriously&nbsp;compromised&nbsp;picture quality.</p>
<p>But additional changes I would like to see to the Special Editions would include:</p>
<p>-Recomposited effects (ships, lightsabers,&nbsp;etc).</p>
<p>-Add the correct Death Star plans to A New Hope.</p>
<p>-Add some Clone voices to a few of the Stormtroomers.</p>
<p>-Add a some surface shots of Alderaan getting destroyed.</p>
<p>I don't mind when Lucas changes stuff in the Special Edition as long as he keeps the original version as an option. &nbsp;</p>

<p>I really think not having Maul be&nbsp;Grievous was a serious missed opportunity. &nbsp;By taking these two mostly uninteresting throw away bad guy and combining &nbsp;them they could have actually given him an interesting arc between the movies that would have provided a nice&nbsp;foreshadowing&nbsp;for what was to become of Anakin.</p>
<p>Sure, Clone Wars has done a decent job (I think) of spicing up Maul and Grievous, but these are suppose to be 2 of the 4 main villains in the films (really 3 since one of the villains want&nbsp;meant&nbsp;to be a "Phantom Menace") and that kind of character development shouldn't have been farmed out to the series, especially if you are going to have a different villain in each movie.</p>

Sorry to bump this but I found this article that reminded me of your first post so much I just had to leave this here.

http://www.thestarwarsheresies.blogspot.com/2012/04/its-all-greek-to-me.html

In ROTS there is a subtle shift in Anakin's appearance once he turns to the dark side, the most obvious being the yellow eyes during his attack on the Separatists on Mustafar.  It's also occurs in an episode of the Clone Wars where Ashoka temporarily falls to the dark side while on Mortis and her appearance changes as well.  

Also in Attack of the Clones, Palpatine is starting to look a little extra wrinkly which immediately reverts back in Revenge of the Sith.  I read this as perhaps they were going to go with the subtle change over time but then decided instead to have the change occur all at once.  Or perhaps he looked in the mirror one day and decided that he was starting to look a bit too evil and then concentrated really hard to repress the outward signs.  Note that when Padme shows up on Mustafar Anakin's dark appearance represses as well.

His name is Nik Sant and he looks kinda like Santa Claus.

Haaaa.

If we take Jango's word for it, he says he was recruited by a man named Tyrannus, or Darth Tyrannus, or Count Dooku whichever you prefer.  Dooku used the recently deceased Sifo-Dyas's name to order the army and recruited Jango as the template.  Since it is known for certain that Dooku was in on Palpatine's plan to start the war, it would make perfect sense for Jango to still be in Dooku's corner even once he starts playing the role of separatist leader.  When Padme started making a big fuss in the senate to keep an army from being form, Dooku called upon Jango to assassinate her, who at that point was staying on Kamino, just as Lama Su said, presumably to continue to provide fresh genetic material for the creation of more clones.  When Obi-wan tracks Jango to Kamino, Jango makes a beeline back to Dooku on Geonosis, presumably to warn him that the Jedi are onto them.    

When the old EU was being developed, the PT era was considered off limits by Lucas since he still held on to the possibility that he would make 1, 2, and 3.  Though this did eventually happen, I often wander how well a set of novels by, say, Timothy Zahn telling the story of Anakin's fall to the dark side might have turned out.

I feel often that I'm siting in an odd place with my fandom because I grew up during the 90s when Star Wars was making it's come back and the prequels came out when I was in junior high and high school.  I had the original versions on VHS and my friend down the street had the special editions, and I use to always consider those versions to be some sacred treasure because I couldn't watch those whenever I wanted.  I remember running out and spending my allowance to buy the junior novelization of Phantom Menace and reading through it before the movie was released because I was to excited.  In fact, me and my friends actually went to see Revenge of the Sith on the same evening we had our last day of school.  So for me growing up, it was the classic version, the special editions, and the prequels that informed my youth.  I have a sense of nostalgia for both "old" and "new" Star Wars that I'll never be able to break.  As a gamer too, my favorite Star Wars games were the classic Super Star Wars games for SNES and the N64 era Shadows of the Empire, Rogue Squadron, Episode 1 Racer, and Battle for Naboo.  Both versions of Star Wars are there, and they are never going away, and I never want them to.

I see where you're coming from with wishing things could go back to the way they were.  There are times when I just want to experience the original trilogy in their purist form without the prequels evading my senses. 

But at the same time, the "new" Star Wars still isn't all bad and I would be just as upset about it disappearing as I am currently that "old" Star Wars is disappearing.  Fans have a choice in the matter and a campaign to change opinions is just pointless. 

It's sad I know, but there really isn't anything we can do about it without crossing a dangerous line that I'd prefer not to cross.  There are countless ways purify the Star Wars experience for yourself, but calling for an entire cultural purification isn't the answer.

And Clone Wars is still badass.

TV's Frink said:

This won't end well.

Well, twooffour is still gone so it could have been worse...a lot worse.

Star Wars is a big dumb movie about space wizards.  It was in 1977.  It was in 1983.  It was in 1997.  It was in 1999.  It was in 2005.  And it still is today.  Elevating it to the level of some mythic form of art that must be be cherished and glorified like some holy text while shunning all other gospel as blasphemy is just a little bit silly. 

I think the original Star Trek is leagues better than any of the other series but I'm not out trying to incite a crusade against Voyager.  There are people out there who like the "new" Star Wars and you really don't have any right to be offended by those people's right to express their fandom. 

I think you are confusing your sense of nostalgia for divine truth that ought to be spread like jihad. 

Guess what, if I ever have kids.  I'll show them Star Wars, all of Star Wars and let them make up their own minds about what's good and what sucks just as we did when we were growing up.  If they come to the movies on their own, awesome.  If not, and I have a choice in the matter I'll show them 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6.  I'm not going to attempt to indoctrinate them with all my pent up nerd baggage from the last 15 years over which set of space wizard movies is better than the other. 

So the original Star Wars is like the Hobbit full of fun swashbuckling adventure.

Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi are like Lord of the Rings for taking that fun swashbuckling adventure and giving it more weight. 

And the Prequels are like the Silmarillion for filling in a lot of extra details while not really being a particularly engaging story from beginning to end.

I've never been one to take real issue with the new Star Wars that has been created since Phantom Menace came along and has continued to this day.  But I will agree that there is a different feel to it all that I sometimes miss being able to have. 

Sam Witwer, the voice of Darth Maul in the Clone Wars and Starkiller in the Force Unleashed discussing his theory on the recommended viewing order for the series and his experience showing a his 31 year old friend Star Wars for the first time.

http://forcecast.net/story/home/Weekly_ForceCast_March_23_2012_144462.asp

0:50:30 - Sam discusses his early memories with Star Wars and how he felt the first time he saw the movies.

0:55:10 - First time Star Wars viewer and viewing order.

The two parts lead right into each other if you want to go straight through which I recommend as he goes into great detail on his initial childhood reaction to Return of the Jedi before segueing into the viewing order section.

The whole interview is actually very insightful but these two parts in particular were the ones I felt would be the most worthwhile to the forum.

DavidBrennan said:

I don't know if anybody here saw Dave Filoni's TCW movie, but it was as big a piece of shit as you could fear.  In terms of SW continuity (OT or PT), it was a total abmonation, in terms of story, it was a joke, and the animation was bad, too (although that aspect wasn't too bothersome to me).

I wasn't all that impressed with the movie either but the show does have some pretty kick ass episodes if you can get past some of the more silly ones. 

A few I would recommend would be:

-Rookies

-Trespass

-Hostage Crisis

-The Holocron Trilogy (Holocron Heist, Cargo of Doom, Children of the Force)

-The Deserter

-The Zillo Beast, and The Zillo Beast Strikes Back

-The Nightsisters/Return of Darth Maul (Nightsisters, Monster, Witches of the Mist, Massacre, Bounty, Brothers, Revenge)

-Chewbacca (Padawan Lost, Wookie Hunt)

-Umbara (Darkness on Umbara, The General, Plan of Dissent, Carnage of Krell)

-The Slavers (Kidnapped, Slaves of the Republic, Escape from Kadavo)

I had an idea for how I might re-order the Clone Wars narrative so that a selection of episodes could basically serve as the back-story to Star Wars without necessarily requiring anyone to view the prequels.  Not so much a fan edit but more of a suggested viewing order.  I'd have to wait until the series wraps though but I have a few ideas already.  

Ralph McQuarrie's art had a really nice pulp science fiction look to that found its way into the entire design philosophy for the OT.  The prequels just don't have that lived in look without McQuarrie's designs. 

georgec said:

I have zero interest in the CW cartoon.

That said, I know about Pegg criticizing the prequels and the recent blu-ray changes.  But, as a big OT fan he probably jumped at the idea of voicing an OT character. I'm more surprised that Lucas has seemingly overlooked Pegg's criticism, as George seems to be very sensitive to criticism.

At the end of the day, it's just a paycheck for Simon Pegg.

My interest level in the CW cartoon (or any other modern-produced SW material) remains at zero.

I had zero interest as well until a realized that the Clone Wars is basically the version of the prequels that we should have got to begin with.

Unfortunately the show does require at least an acceptance of the prequels since they establish the baseline for the show so it would be difficult for someone who prefers to ignore the prequels to take any part in the series.

I can say thought that Dave Filoni and his team do an excellent job of capturing a greater original trilogy feel than the prequels did, mostly since Lucas isn't writing or directing.

Baronlando said:

Darth Bizarro said:

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1206

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1209

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1222

Is that for real?? The fuck?

Yeah, this guys blog is good for a laugh.  Although it's also kind of frightening that there are people out there with his mindset.

His assessment of the OT preservation and release situation is particularly maddening.   

Has anybody been following this thing about the fan's reaction to Simon Pegg voicing Dengar in the Clone Wars.

The certain point of view guy is particularly infuriating. 

http://theforce.net/latestnews/story/Simon_Pegg_To_Voice_Dengar_On_TCW_143999.asp

http://boards.theforce.net/live_action_clone_wars_classics/b10467/32097661/p1/?121

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1206

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1209

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1222

This whole thing sounds pretty damn petty if you ask me.  Pegg is basically being ostracized from fandom by these ass hats just because he doesn't think the prequels are good movies. 

I've been saying for years that The Clone Wars is 10 times better than any of the prequels so I don't find it difficult to believe that Pegg might have some more respect for that show than the movies. 

It's this "true fan" elitism bull crap that really pisses me with the whole community. 

CWBorne said:

I really think what would help more than a reboot is just a hibernation period for Star Wars. One of things that prevented the franchise from getting too over-saturated to an audience was that it more or less went quiet from 84-91. As it is we've had an explosion of material for 20 years now from a multitude of comics, endless books, a cavalcade of games, 3 of the original films re-released in theaters, 4 new movies over 9 years, with 6 movies to be re-released in 3D, and two television shows, with another on its way. 

Now its never going to happen because there's way too much of a cottage industry to pretty much everything Star Wars related now, but in an ideal world there would be a period where the franchise could effectively step away for a bit, recharge its batteries, and maybe when it comes back, a new creative force could oversee it. 

Star Trek, Planet of the Apes, Doctor Who, Rambo, and Tron all come to mind.