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Collipso

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25-Oct-2017
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16-Jan-2018
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480

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Post
#1157127
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

That’s the point for Poe, that he can now see when a suicide mission is a suicide mission instead of just an opportunity for heroism. The point for Finn is he doesn’t care if it’s a suicide mission or not, as long as he saves the Resistance. The point for Finn isn’t affected by Rose saving him either, because the intention is what matters here.

But my interpretation of the scene is that, had Rose not saved Finn, he would’ve killed himself and succeeded in destroying the weapon and therefore saving everyone/buying them more than enough time. If this was the case, then Rose was very selfish by saving him.

The situation in the end works for every character except for Rose.

Rose is just following through on Poe’s assessment. You could just as easily give that moment to Poe, their intentions are the exact same (and it’s not a selfish act, Rose didn’t “stop him,” she “saved him, dummy”). The reason it’s given to Rose is because that’s her role in the film, the angel on Finn’s shoulder guiding him toward the good. She taught him to become a member of the Resistance, which he follows through on, but he still has more to learn. This is just her next lesson.

Again, it’s obvious the filmmakers’ wanted you to be on Rose’s side here. It’s not something that I thought was an issue when I saw the film, but if you misinterpreted that then I guess they needed to make the pointlessness of Finn’s potential sacrifice clearer.

Their intentions are not the same because Poe was trying to save the most amount of people by calling off the attack.

Rose decided that saving Finn was more important than the rest of the Resistance.

What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense.

Poe: call off the attack, save everyone in the skimmers, let the ram blow open the door
Rose: save Finn (the only skimmer not yet falling back), let the ram blow open the door

The intentions are exactly the same. Poe explicitly orders Finn to fall back. Rose just forces him to.

Rose spells it all out, what’s important in winning the war is saving people.

I can see your point, and it does make sense. But I think that the circumstances are different enough to make their intentions different.

Poe had a plan to try to save everyone. Then he saw that his plan would not only fail in doing so, but it would definitely get all those who were involved in it killed.

He called off the attack hoping that they could still find a way to destroy the weapon and live to fight another day, and in doing so, saving the most amount of lives he possibly could.

Finn then found a way, but it would cost him his life. However, since he’s now willing to give himself to the cause, that’s not a problem anymore. And when he was almost there, about to succeed and save everyone, Rose saved him, spelling certain death to all the rebels that Finn would’ve saved.

Post
#1157115
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

That’s the point for Poe, that he can now see when a suicide mission is a suicide mission instead of just an opportunity for heroism. The point for Finn is he doesn’t care if it’s a suicide mission or not, as long as he saves the Resistance. The point for Finn isn’t affected by Rose saving him either, because the intention is what matters here.

But my interpretation of the scene is that, had Rose not saved Finn, he would’ve killed himself and succeeded in destroying the weapon and therefore saving everyone/buying them more than enough time. If this was the case, then Rose was very selfish by saving him.

The situation in the end works for every character except for Rose.

Rose is just following through on Poe’s assessment. You could just as easily give that moment to Poe, their intentions are the exact same (and it’s not a selfish act, Rose didn’t “stop him,” she “saved him, dummy”). The reason it’s given to Rose is because that’s her role in the film, the angel on Finn’s shoulder guiding him toward the good. She taught him to become a member of the Resistance, which he follows through on, but he still has more to learn. This is just her next lesson.

Again, it’s obvious the filmmakers’ wanted you to be on Rose’s side here. It’s not something that I thought was an issue when I saw the film, but if you misinterpreted that then I guess they needed to make the pointlessness of Finn’s potential sacrifice clearer.

Their intentions are not the same because Poe was trying to save the most amount of people by calling off the attack.

Rose decided that saving Finn was more important than the rest of the Resistance.

Post
#1157097
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

That’s the point for Poe, that he can now see when a suicide mission is a suicide mission instead of just an opportunity for heroism. The point for Finn is he doesn’t care if it’s a suicide mission or not, as long as he saves the Resistance. The point for Finn isn’t affected by Rose saving him either, because the intention is what matters here.

But my interpretation of the scene is that, had Rose not saved Finn, he would’ve killed himself and succeeded in destroying the weapon and therefore saving everyone/buying them more than enough time. If this was the case, then Rose was very selfish by saving him.

The situation in the end works for every character except for Rose.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1157061
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DominicCobb said:

ExNihilo said:

DominicCobb said:

Even if Finn makes it, in a melted skimmer I can’t see how that’d do much.

And I meant there are other ways to blow open that big ass door, I’m sure.

It looked like just peripheries like the guns. Fuselage was intact just prior to Rose’s interception.
They are practically at the mouth of the cannon. I have trouble buying he wasn’t going to make it or he wasn’t going to do much damage.

I guess this really does come down to individual perception. I just didn’t see it the same way you did.

Well obviously the reaction says they could have made this clearer, as many people have misinterpreted the scene. I took it, when Poe called it off as a “suicide mission,” that it wasn’t worth it, and that’s all I needed to know and the rest could easily be assumed without being stated outright.

I feel like you shouldn’t act as if you’re 100% right and everyone else is wrong. What if you’re the one that misinterpreted it? (I’m not saying that’s the case here)

Post
#1156963
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

See, lots of those points are valid points. But lots of them aren’t. And if I have to do mental gymnastics in order to like the movie, then there’s something wrong. I’m sorry, I don’t believe Luke Skywalker would even on instinct ignite his lightsaber to a child that has been corrupted. Hell, in the movie he says no one’s ever truly gone. And he called Kylo Ben, so I think he believes there’s good inside Ben. And there clearly is, TFA made it pretty clear, and I don’t think TLJ took all of it from him, which is another reason why I find it hard to believe that he would be more corrupt than Vader.

About Rey facing her greatest fears… eh I guess that on paper it would be an interesting conflict within her but we have a cave scene for the sake of having a dark side cave, ending up in a somewhat shallow scene. Then we have the reveal scene and puff, no one even mentions that struggle and she seems fine with it. So I don’t believe from what I’ve seen and what was said in the movie that Rey is a character that faced any struggles that would make you really relate to her.

I like the ideas behind Kylo, but at the same time that I think TLJ made him much more interesting, it made him much more boring. I don’t know how to explain really. Maybe I should rewatch the movie, after all it has been almost a month and there’s a lot to process.

I like Rose, except for when she saves Finn, and I really liked Finn and Poe with Holdo and Leia in the movie.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1156931
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I believe he would’ve disabled the weapon, and that Poe only called off the attack because there was no chance to make it out alive. But that wasn’t Finn’s plan. He was willing and was fully committed to dying in order to save everyone. Only…

Post
#1156855
Topic
The Place to Go for Emotional Support
Time

suspiciouscoffee said:

Hey everyone, life is shitty, so it’s time for a rant!

For nearly ten years, my parents forced me to compete in local swim teams. I always hated it, and was always vocal about it, but they didn’t care. Not too long ago, they finally let me quit. All it took was the threat of suicide, which I was seriously considering at the time for several reasons. Today, I was guilted back into swimming by my sobbing mother who just wanted to see her little boy finish his senior swim season.

In other news, I’ve suddenly fallen pretty hard for a guy. He’s probably straight, but even if he isn’t, any relationship I pursue with him would result in my execution and subsequent trip to hell. I continue to daydream nonetheless, and hope God has mercy on my soul whenever I do die.

I also need to apply for college scholarships, because I still haven’t done that.

I can relate to the college stuff, but I’m clueless as to how you’re feeling going through the rest. I believe we’ve argued and disagreed in the TLJ thread, but know that even though we’ve never talked before, you have a friend in me, if you need. I’m sending you all my best wishes, and I sincerely hope things get better for you coffee. Really.

Post
#1156854
Topic
The Place to Go for Emotional Support
Time

Bingowings said:

Hi fellas. Progress update. Last Wednesday I came back from the South of Englandshire. I hadn’t slept much for days worried how things would turn out. It’s quite a long journey back on the train 7ish hours so very tired. My now ex partner pressed me for details so I told him about the mental health problems and that I had to leave him if I were to get better. He was sober to start with was very apologetic. Got progressively drunk and tearful and asked me to stay and talked about leaving me his money in his will and feeling suicidal. I managed to steer him to his bedroom to sleep it off. The next day was my first day at work. When I got home my now ex was spending the night in Edinburgh with someone else. So I tried to cheer myself up by using social media.The silence got to me and the magnitude of what I had just done had got to me and I noticed something. The people I know on Twitter with a mental health background or training all had me on mute. Including people I considered friends. Real friends responded and a few random strangers but not these particular people who know what’s been going on. I felt very let down and humiliated. And I found myself looking at a packet of sedatives and thinking I could take half of one and sleep or take all of them and sleep. Thankfully those that did answer helped me decide the right course. But despite sedation I only got a couple of hours sleep. Next morning I had to go to work. I felt like a zombie. I had to take long bus journey and on the way I had a complete meltdown. Uncontrollable tears on a mostly full bus and nobody asked if I was okay. Just ignored. When the ex got home he decided that it would be for the best if he got an extension built to the house so I could have space. I reminded him that I was leaving. The next day I checked a couple of flats in Glasgow. I picked one and paid the holding fee. Letting a flat is much more complicated than it was so I need to get credit checks and references together. So I had to go through the weekend in the same house as my ex and the drinking resumed as did the shouting and the muttering of obscenities as he passed my bedroom door. As before help came not from the people I expected to help but from others. Fast forward to today. I called one of our volunteers at work to try and get some forms filled. She has bipolar disorder and I discovered she has been detained in hospital over Christmas and New year. So my first thought is to visit her. Then I think a card from everyone at the office would be a nice touch and might lift her spirits. So I get one and circulate it. And there is this one chap and he is umming and arring about signing the card because he doesn’t know her well. Bear in mind this is for a lady who gave the office a huge box of chocolates for Christmas with no stipulation as to who should or shouldn’t eat them. She’s got a known mental health problem and she’s in a mental health ward and the guy is our mental first aider and one of the people muting me knowing my problems. So I just felt really let down there. I got him to sign the thing under duress and went to visit her. She loved the card regardless she looked withdrawn and distant when I arrived and really perked up by the time I left. When I got home my ex was very helpful and supportive so that was better. TLDR I am single, I have a flat sorted. And I’m a bit wiser about who my friends are.

Hello bingo. I’m unaware of who you are or what you’re really going through (besides of what you said in the post) because I’m new here. However I can see you’re a really nice person, and that alone would make me wish all and only the best for you. Given that you’re also going through hard times, those feelings that you should only get the best intensify. I’m not religious, but I’ll pray for you. I truly hope things get better for you, and they will. Really.
Hope you, and everything, get better to you.

Post
#1156801
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

TV’s Frink said:

dahmage said:

Ok, so then what is the problem with Rose? I am confused what remaining complaints there might be.

Here’s a helpful post from the other forum.

You’re the only one. Rose is the worst Star Wars character ever. Yes…even worse than Jar Jar. At least he has good theories about him being a Sith Lord. Rose served zero purpose the entire movienother than trying to save her crush’s life while sacrificing the entire universe to the FO.

Where’s that post from? I remember reading it somewhere…

This post has been edited.

Post
#1156769
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Well, I thought Han only decided to go there because he knew Lando. I’d say that makes it pretty crucial. One could argue that Rose’s sole contribution to TLJ’s plot was stopping Finn from leaving, but I think she was extremely important for Finn’s character development.

Post
#1156737
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

Handman said:

IsanRido said:

I don’t know if this has been brought up in previous pages. Doesn’t anyone else find it bothersome that Rose doesn’t utter a word of complaint to Poe for getting her sister killed?

Huh. Good point. I guess what’s done is done and she’s more concerned with keeping everybody else alive.

If so, why would she stop Finn from saving everyone?

You know, she saved him from killing himself in a move that wouldn’t have saved anyone if he went through with it… It was too late to destroy the cannon. But Finn was stuck in hero mode and was about to die trying anyway.

None of us know if it was too late; what we know is that Finn was about to sacrifice himself believing he would save everyone (you can’t know if he’d succeed or not, and you’ll never know because…) and she was willing to doom everyone in order to save Finn. I guess she’s Yang to her sister’s Yin.

Post
#1156719
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Handman said:

IsanRido said:

I don’t know if this has been brought up in previous pages. Doesn’t anyone else find it bothersome that Rose doesn’t utter a word of complaint to Poe for getting her sister killed?

Huh. Good point. I guess what’s done is done and she’s more concerned with keeping everybody else alive.

If so, why would she stop Finn from saving everyone?

This post has been edited.

Post
#1156696
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

a_o said:

Mocata said:

Okay here’s something I am not sure has been asked before, but in TLJ does young Ben Solo use Anakin’s saber to block Luke? Is this ever mentioned elsewhere?

nah. for a moment i thought it’d make sense for it to be the same saber because of Rey’s experience touching Anakin’s lightsaber in Maz’s castle in TFA but taking a second look…

https://imgur.com/a/mc3Ul

looks like kylo’s saber but not black/red with the guards.

I’m pretty sure he uses Anakin’s saber. That’s why he says “it belongs to me” in TFA.

Post
#1156693
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

I think that most people who thought Rey’s character was unbelievable in TFA wouldn’t be satisfied if the explanation for her unrealistic powers was “she’s a Skywalker” or “she’s a Kenobi”. I love the idea Rey Nobody from Nowhere, but she’s way too overpowered for me to care.

And to be fair I don’t remember anyone in this thread complaining about Rey being a nobody.

Post
#1156691
Topic
The Last Jedi : Fan Edit Ideas - ** <strong>SPOILERS INSIDE</strong> **
Time

Jeebus said:

Snoke&mirrors said:

that he considered murdering and thus set off a chain of events that created a evil that is responsible for the killing hundreds of innocent lives.

That isn’t what happened.

Yes it is. Luke considered murdering Kylo which caused Kylo to go full dark side. Doesn’t matter if Snoke had already corrupted him, Luke showed us in RotJ that no one’s ever truly lost, so if he acted different he would’ve possibly saved Ben. However, he considered murdering him, which caused him to go full dark side, and that indirectly killed countless innocent lives.

Post
#1156663
Topic
the beatles
Time

With The Beatles grew on me recently, but I think the covers more so than the originals. Till There Was You, Roll Over Beethoven, You Really Got A Hold On Me… but the album I’ve listened to the most recently, out of their earlier work. is definitely Please Please Me.
In other topic, I love everything they came out with in 1967. Probably my favorite year. The singles, Magical Mystery Tour, and of course Lonely Hearts…
And yet my most listened album of all time should be “Help!” though - summer of 2009 I literally only listened to that. I also have a soft spot for Let It Be, even though nowadays my favorite version of that is Let It Be… Naked.
So hard to talk about the Beatles, only album (out of the ones considered “official” nowadays) that I haven’t listened to in a while is Beatles For Sale. I don’t know, it’s just never been a favorite of mine.

Post
#1156637
Topic
Star Wars at box office
Time

I think that if Solo was to be released in December it’d have the potential to be bigger than Rogue One. But because it’s in May I think it probably won’t.

Post
#1156636
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

But I must address something: I don’t think just ignoring things that I dislike is good or healthy at all. I don’t think I should just ignore whatever I don’t like in the Star Wars franchise because it’s too big of a franchise to please everyone. I see just ignoring what’s happening as some sort of denial. If I did that, I’d look at me the same way I look at someone who’s in an abusive relationship and whenever someone tells them that they’re in an abusive relationship they just don’t want to talk about it and don’t want to believe in it.

I don’t see that as healthy or good and it’s not something I’m willing to do. I’m sorry if I passionately criticize and because I’m passionate about it I won’t give up my negative points of view and what I think of it and how I wish it was better because it’s something I love and it’s important to me to the point where I’m in a website talking about it. And if that’s bothering other people from the forum, more specifically people reading through this thread full of negative thoughts, I’m really sorry.

This post has been edited.

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