Bingowings

Octorox said:

OzoneSherrif said:

If Vader's suit and helmet still remains in the edit his helmet should be like this:

 

It is from the EFX prop collectibles company based on one of McQuarries concept sketches of Vader. Most of the other concepts for Vader ranged from a face mask (and a full head of hair) to a Stormtrooper helmet and other helmets more like the Vader we all know and love but meaner. But I like this one because it isn't too outrageously evil. less refined you know

 

 

And a very relevant link

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/visualdevelopmentofdarthvader.html

I REALLY like that design. I'd like to see a modified version of it in the PT.

 

Either would be great, both still look like Vader but you could argue that over time he got upgrades to his suit.

The one in ROTS looks more advanced than the one in ROTJ.

The Golden Idol said:

Bingowings said:

P.S. On the subject of Threepio I remember that Lucas originally intended to give him a used car salesman voice and we are short of a Han Solo style positive cynic it might be possible to keep Threepio but give him a very different way of expressing himself (something like Bender from "Futurama") which would explain why Owen doesn't recognise him (he looks different and he sounds different too).

 

 Then 3PO would be unrecognizable by the audience! I say just cut 'im out.

The audience and R2 would know who he was but Owen and Beru wouldn't and Ben and Vader would only suspect it.

Basically he could be the same character but with a different voice and mode of expression.

Look at Han in ANH, "I'm not going anywhere", "What's the point of getting a reward if you ain't around to use it?" etc.

Is it that different to "I'm not getting in there", "This is suicide" etc (only the voice is different, the words mean almost the same thing).

Both appear on the surface to be self surving but when push comes to shove Han saves Luke and Threepio's first concern in Cloud City is to warn the others about the Stormtroopers.

If Threepio started off as this blunt, slightly oily character and lost his memories and gained a new voice but still acted the same, it would play against the expectations of the audience and give an editor a character that could say almost anything to change the mode of the story.

Threepio met another protocol droid which bad mouthed him in Cloud City (in a very different voice) so why not have him start out that way before his memory got wiped?

BarBar Jinkx said:

in regards to that Worm

 

is there any way to get rid of the teeth?

 

the line "oh no the cave is collapsing" bugs the crap out of me, its obvious to everyone that its not a cave so why say that line?

Perhaps if the cave had sharper more jagged teeth it wouldn't be so obvious.

Rhikter said:

I just get an empty box that says "Image currently not available."

The machines hate me now.

I hope you can see the image above?

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Bingowings:

"Sticking a sequence with a suited Vader taking on Jedi is a massive undertaking which while great playing in your head would give me nightmares if I had to try and pull it off."

Perhaps there is an existing fanfilm that features a scene like this.  One that Adywan would tinker around with and then insert into RotS, similar to the brief shot of the inside of the TIE Fighter that was lifted from Star Wars: Revelations and then added to the Battle of Yavin in ANH: R.

 

Also, Bingowings, your link is broken.

That's weird because you are the second person to say that about a link I've posted but they are working here...??????

It was a link to a picture of a model based on McQuarrie's earlier Vader design.

 Can you see what it is yet?

Erikstormtrooper said:

For anyone interested, A Digital Man's edit of the opera scene in ROTS is awesome. He subtly removes reference to the midichlorians, but everything else is the same.

Slumberland does a good job of removing them too, relatively speaking it's one of the easiest fixes on the prequel trilogy.

This thread is really about suggesting changes which are more ambitious.

Sticking a sequence with a suited Vader taking on Jedi is a massive undertaking which while great playing in your head would give me nightmares if I had to try and pull it off.

Throwing down big heavy metal gauntlets is the game here and that woolly mitten has already been picked up successfully.

On the subject of Vader's suit, I do wish he was wearing a more primitive one to start off with.

It would be grand to see this one in ROTS :

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/114/420887657_6c770f2e99_o.jpg 

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

As for Vader's lungs however they would certainly be damaged (presumably Vader used the force to keep himself alive while he waited to be rescued).

People who are trapped in house fires may suffer from smoke inhalation independent of receiving skin burns; however, the incidence of smoke inhalation increases with the percentage of total body surface area burned.

Vader receives massive burns to almost all of his remaining body and the heat and smoke would have been much more intense than in any house fire and would have effectively written off his lungs so I have no problem with him being stuck in the black suit after such a series of injuries.

But you forget that the reason smoke inhalation is such a serious problem to lungs is that it is in an enclosed space but the lava scene in in an open space so the smoke would never have affected him enough for the life-support suit.

His entire body is going up in flames, and his clothing and he is laying face down on beach of burning coals...even so the heat damage would have pretty much baked the inside of his lungs beyond repair... It's a miracle of the Force that he didn't die before Palpatine and Co got to him.

 

That still doesn't explain it. You need to read about this guy who was a soldier in the falklands war. This guy was in a ship, which was an enclosed space that was turned into a fireball and he doesn't have any breathing problems. Look at the scene where Anakin burns. there is a minimal amount of smoke and almost none rising from the coals. the flames are all heading skywards and because he is on his front it wouldn't have affected him enough to damage his lungs that bad.

 

Technically speaking the whole fight isn't very realistic as the super heated steam and sulfurous fumes would have resulted in Obi-Wan being in an iron lung too. Even at the distance that Obi-Wan is from the lava after his jump it would have been hotter than a furnace and they spent a long time fighting right over the top of the stuff with minimal damage to their clothes...let alone their bodies.

Lava is very, very hot and the air surrounding it is very, very hot and this isn't just a single volcano, this is a volcanic planet so the air would be un-breathable anyway.

Star Wars isn't science fiction, it's fantasy, it's Sinbad with space ships (which is why I'm behind 1000% about removing the muddy clawings and returning The Force to a mystical power as it always should have been ). The only sequence that met and actually went beyond my childhood expectations that bubbled up from the moment the words "Episode IV" appeared on a cinema screen was the Obi-Wan/Mannikin Skywalker duel.

But as always it's your project and if you can think of an even better way of getting Vader into that suit go for it with my unwavering support.

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

As for Vader's lungs however they would certainly be damaged (presumably Vader used the force to keep himself alive while he waited to be rescued).

People who are trapped in house fires may suffer from smoke inhalation independent of receiving skin burns; however, the incidence of smoke inhalation increases with the percentage of total body surface area burned.

Vader receives massive burns to almost all of his remaining body and the heat and smoke would have been much more intense than in any house fire and would have effectively written off his lungs so I have no problem with him being stuck in the black suit after such a series of injuries.

But you forget that the reason smoke inhalation is such a serious problem to lungs is that it is in an enclosed space but the lava scene in in an open space so the smoke would never have affected him enough for the life-support suit.

His entire body is going up in flames, and his clothing and he is laying face down on beach of burning coals...even so the heat damage would have pretty much baked the inside of his lungs beyond repair... It's a miracle of the Force that he didn't die before Palpatine and Co got to him.

adywan said:

Hell yes. Much better storyline. it shows how a good person can turn evil and how power corrupts and not that he was built to be evil from conception. That whole thing changes much of what was said about Anakin in the OT. If he was created by the sith he would have had evil in him all the time and would not have been a good man and turns Vader into a puppet. If he was destined to become evil then he would never have turned back to the good side in ROTJ. The fact that he was only manipulated and not created to be a Sith displays why Luke can sense that there was still good in him and that because it was only manipulation that turned him he was able to save his son.. Changing the PT to fit with the OT is the way to go and never the other way around.

I actually like the idea that the Jedi have this 'Chosen One' prophesy and a Sith Lord exploits it by putting a wolf into the fold, only for him to actually be the 'Chosen One' and bite back. It's almost as if Darth Plagueis had the last laugh, he knew that Sidious would kill him and created a means of getting Revenge on the Jedi and his apprentice from beyond the grave. It also shows that people who are set up as messiah type figures are just as capable of turning bad or good at anytime (something pinched from the Dune books like so much in Star Wars) and it also has that Greek theatre feel of the Gods (or the Force) being so poweful and unpredictable that thinking you are in control of such power is the biggest mistake you could make.

adywan said:

The Death Star at the end of ROTS was totally unnecessary and wrong on so many levels. So it took them 20 years to build the Death Star 1 but only 3 to build the second one? come on. Totally gone in Revisited.

I am toying with the idea that we don't see vader in the PT but I'm probably more inclined to give Vader a better role at the end. I want to see him hunting down and killing some of the remaining Jedi at the end not the stupid wimp screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!" Also i never understood why the hell he needs a lifesupport suit when all that happened was he got burned. His lungs wouldn't have been affected. I'm going to be adding something that explains why he has to breath artificially when i get to ROTS:R

 One way of keeping the Death Star in would be to show both being built together but one more complete than the other.

It would make sense that Palpatine would, eventually want at least one Death Star for each of the provinces he gives control over to the Governors, building just one and handing it over to someone like Tarkin is inviting him to use it to take over the Empire himself (but perhaps Palpatine intended to rule the Galaxy in the same dog eat dog manner as the Sith work), if he built more than one at once there would be another one to keep the ambitions of the Governors in check (it would also bring back the great idea of two Death Stars being built from the earlier draughts of Revenge Of The Jedi).

But it would make more sense to get the Imperial fleet built first so seeing Star Destroyers being constructed is fine by me.

As for Vader's lungs however they would certainly be damaged (presumably Vader used the force to keep himself alive while he waited to be rescued).

People who are trapped in house fires may suffer from smoke inhalation independent of receiving skin burns; however, the incidence of smoke inhalation increases with the percentage of total body surface area burned.

Vader receives massive burns to almost all of his remaining body and the heat and smoke would have been much more intense than in any house fire and would have effectively written off his lungs so I have no problem with him being stuck in the black suit after such a series of injuries.

I would love to have seen Vader in his suit in a fight or two and if you can see a way of pulling that off it would be grand.

My earlier idea of giving Threepio a very different voice in his junk days (still the same traits of panic and apparent cowardice but in a used car sales man manner instead of a fussy butler...once again returning an early draught concept into the saga) you could dub any lines in there and use him to bend the story into much more interesting areas but as always it's your project and you go where you want to with it and I don't know how I'm going to cope while I'm waiting to see you efforts come to fruition.

P.S. while writing this a number of my points have been taken up by other people...what can I say...I'm just a very slow typist.

AxiaEuxine said:

I love the Jar-Jar idea but why would he take 3po out of TPM and AOTC?

As I said I'm not Ady but perhaps this Shriner's fez is a clue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBjNcU-K-hA

AxiaEuxine said:

Is there a thread or a list that gathers all of Adywan's ideas for the PT Revisited? I would like to offer my two cents but Id rather do it fully informed.

As far as I can make out, the only things Ady has announced so far is removing Threepio from TPM & AOTC and giving Jar Jar a new alien voice which he can add different dialogue to via subtitles (a bit like Magnoliafan did I imagine).

ESB:R is still over a year away and ROTJ:R will take a lot longer from what Ady has been saying so this thread is partly to come up with some ideas that Ady might find useful in the years to come but it's really for anyone to use.

With so many years ahead (where Lucasfilm might add more bits and bobs onto whatever they officially release) I'm not sure if Ady will finalise what he wants to do with the prequels for a loooooooong time.

I'm not Adywan (there is no other) so you could drop him a message yourself.

P.S. On the subject of Threepio I remember that Lucas originally intended to give him a used car salesman voice and we are short of a Han Solo style positive cynic it might be possible to keep Threepio but give him a very different way of expressing himself (something like Bender from "Futurama") which would explain why Owen doesn't recognise him (he looks different and he sounds different too). When he comes to Coruscant he could be reprogrammed to sound like a fussy butler or he could gain that personality type after he has his memory erased at the end of ROTS, leaving R2 as the only character that remembers that Threepio is the same character throughout. It would add a bit of irony to Threepio in the OT, where he makes out he is a superior sophisticated droid to Artoo, when Artoo (and us too) remembers him as being an oily scoundrel made out of salvaged junk.

I really love this "Star Wars Tales" story too :

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/bc/Thank_the_Maker.jpg

Farlander said:

Well, I'm kind of new here, but I saw adywan's ANH edit... it was great. No, really, it was. Now, I know of some adywan's intentions, like, no Vader in ROTS... but... that will be quite pointless. Anakin turns to the dark side and stuff, if only it would be a Godfather-like movie, where the story of the present and the past (or how you would like to call it) are parallel.

Anyway, I've got some ideas, maybe someone will use them. Before I start, I want to point out that I started watching Star Wars with... TPM. That's right, TPM. Then came the SE OT and then AotC with RotS. So I'm kind of one of those who didn't really care if Han shoot first (though that moment did look quite choppy in SE) or about midichlorians. I'm fine with both the "mystical" OT version and "scientifical" PT version. And I do like more the idea that was introduced in PT (and not so badly realized, though not without flaws) about, you know, greyishness of things more than OT's "this one's good, this one's bad, this one's good turned bad then turned back to good". Not that I don't like OT. ESB and ROTS are my favorite SW episodes (with ESB being the best of OT and ROTS being the best of PT).

Let's start.

TPM is actually a pretty nice movie. I mean, it has it's flaws, and... well... differences from the OT, but actually, I found it quite close to ROTJ. And the structure is quite the same. First part of the movie - rescue, second part - journey on a planet (well, in TPM case - two planets) with a race, and the third part - lightsaber duel, space battle and ground battle all going on at the same time. There's even a Jedi funeral in both movies. But, unlike ROTJ, it has politics. I know some people don't like politics in SW. Well, I like politics in SW, and think they should not have to be cut.

Well, probably the main gripe of all SW fans is Jar Jar. Mine too. Now, I don't think Jar Jar should be cut at all. And I don't think he should be remade to, you know, a serious creature (let's see, 3PO in EpV is... well, not annoying as Jar Jar is in this one, but he's quite annoying too. That's my opinion), but tone down the sillines. And cut the poo and fart jokes, I mean... This is Star Wars. No poo and fart jokes in Star Wars... I just don't think, considering his on-screen actions, that it's quite possible to make a fully serious character out of him, but I've heard about some miracle in MagnoliaFan edit, didn't see it though.

Now, this conerns all battle droids scenes throughout the movie. Remove the "uhhhh", "oh-oh", "ah" parts. They're droids, after all. So, instead of always saying "Oh-oh, blast 'em!", just make them say "Blast 'em!".

Tatooine. Well, there's this "Anakin has no father" scene. Cut it? No. I just came to a thought that it works better with the "Mystical Force" version of things, not the scientifical ones. So... there's one advantage of the OT mystical Force version, it seems. The scene with the probe droid should be put back in. It's, like, the reason Qui and Ani are running anyway. The fight with Greedo is essential to be put back. Not only because of Anakin's "dark side", but also because of Qui-Gon's teaching manners. "Well, you know you're right, fighting won't change anything. Let's go". It's great, really.

Battle for Naboo... Well, there is a gripe I have with Anakin. I propose to somehow move the line "Qui-Gon told me to stay here and that's what I'm going to do" line while he's still in the hangar. Before or short time after he launches the stargihter, on PURPOSE (not searching for anything), and on PURPOSE destroying droidekas and flying to the Battleship, without any autopilots. He IS eager to prove himself, isn't he?

 

When I first saw AOTC, I thought it was utter crap. Then, after watching it again, I thought it was... not so bad. But I have to watch it again to actually put some type of list. And here comes ROTS...

 

ROTS is my PT favorite, but it's the one I think that should be edited the most, if someone would edit it. Pretty ironic, eh?

Battle of Coruscant. It's long and... well, the first few minutes are ok (I would say that the very beginning is, well, great), but then there's all this buzz droids stuff. I mean, it's pointless! I propose to make so that after going through the Vulture droids (well, somewhere after the phrase "they're doing their job so we can do ours") edit stuff as necessary so they would get straight to the Invisible Hand and land there. It would be much more paced and less-dragged.

The Invisible Hand. I know, some would like to get the Shaak Ti deleted scene back. But please, don't. At least without big graphical work, which would require quite some time. Besides that, Shaak is seen elsewhere in the movie, I think, so... no Shaak Ti death on IH scene. Anyway, now what about those things that are already in the movie. The thing that buggers me the most (and not only me) is the elevator scene with R2 vs. Super Battle Droid. Up, down, up, down, and... well, pointless. Duel with Dooku could use some music, but not necessary. Removing Palpatine's "Yes!" is necessary, though. Everything else on Invisible Hand is ok in my book.

Coruscant... It's quite hefty as it is, but I think that returning all three Rebellion scenes (especially the third one, with Anakin standing near the Chancellor) is essential. Besides, if Battle of Coruscant would be shortened, there will be enough time and for these three things. The chat on the balcony... I'm not against romantic scenes, and, like, in AotC many didn't like the dialouge, but come on, Anakin is an ex-slave boy, how can he know how to talk nicely? But the whole "so love has blinded you?" stuff on that balcony is really corny. From Grievous straight to the dream, that would do the trick.

One thing that I had with Anakin's turn to the dark side is that it was... well, it was fast, but we do know about Palpatine slowly playing over Anakin's mind all over the time. Anyway. The Jedi Council room with Ani and Padme is cool, IMO. Fix the sun thing if possible (so light would fall always from the right direction), and remove Chancellor's line. Then. Cut the Sidious-Mace lightsaber duel. IMO, it would be so much cooler that after Palpatine says "It's treason then" we cut to Anakin getting to the Office, and... we see Mace over an already deformed Palpatine (without that "Only I can help save your wife from death" and "Don't listen to him, Anakin!"). Well, even if to leave the battle in the movie, still, Palpy must be deformed BEFORE Anakin's arrival, IMO. And he must look weak, tired and battle-scarred to Anakin. That would make much more sense. The first time we see Palpatine cast lightning from his hands is when Anakin chops Mace's hand. No "What I've done" thing. Just "Pledge myself to your teachings", and well, maybe 'bout Padme. After that, Anakin doesn't say a single word. I think, what made the fall look so fast, is all those "Thank you, master", "Agreed, the next move bla-bla" and stuff. Like, he was "OH MY WHAT I'VE DONE" and suddenly "I'M A BADDIE YEAH!". Cutting that will make Anakin's turn more believable, IMO. Maybe have him somehow shut all the way through, even no "Pledge myself to your teachings", dunno. I mean, sometimes silence is more powerful than words. And... If Palpy says that he knows how to save from death, why he says that together we can DISCOVER the secret? Well, that whole turning to the dark side scene needs a revamp, don't you think? I may write some time later a little more clearly how do I see it.

Jedi Purge stuff is cool. There's one thing I'm not really sure about. I mean, Anakin cries a bit after killing the Mustafar leaders, but doesn't have a tear while killing younglings. I think it should be the other way around, and... digitally adding some tears going from his eyes before activating his lightsaber won't be too hard?

There's one thing in the Jedi Temple security room I think is not quite right: as soon as they see the Hologram, both Obi and Yoda start to call Palpatine the Emperor instead of Palpatine. I think, if possible, this should be replaced. Oh, and I'm not sure about the yellow eyes during the Mustafar scene. Are they really necessary? I mean, they're cool, but... Dunno.

Anakin vs. Obi-Wan duel is... well, the duel itself is cool, at least while it's inside. I know some didn't like the "Only a Sith deals in absolutes", considering that it totally broke the point of "broad point of view stuff", but we have to remember that it's a JEDI who says that line, not a Sith. The real confusing stuff, for me anyway, is that there's a half-alive pregnant woman lying over there, there's those two best friends yelling at each other, and they talk about... democracy and stuff. That's a little strange, I think. Oh, and... I heard there was some unused Ani-Obi duel footage. It would be nice to get it back somehow. If possible.

But then again, there's this "Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!". "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!". Well... it will be hard to do anything with these. I don't have anything "I have failed you" and "I should've known the Jedi were trying to take over", but this evil stuff... Don't know. It's just... well, it does make sense, but something is not right.

I'm not sure about adding Qui-Gon's talk with Yoda, I've heard this was done before. I think that Yoda's talk with Obi-Wan about Qui-Gon should be cut as well, or redone. I mean, why this ghost thing is something that has to be... teached? Especially when Anakin didn't have anyone to teach it to him. It just doesn't go along well.

And I think that "She has lost will to live" thing is crap. For god's sake, Anakin has choked her for quite some time, and she's dying because she doesn't want to live? When she gave birth to two babys and thinks Anakin has some good left in him? And she doesn't want to live? Bullshit. And I dunno about the names... Well, you can leave them in, you can cut the naming altogether.

There is an idea how to remove the mother controversy, but it would require editing ROTJ, not ROTS. Just a bit of change of the dialouge.

Luke: Do you remember your mother?

Leia: Just images, really... *other stuff she says there*

Luke: (maybe after a bit of silence) Your REAL mother?

And Leia doesn't have anything to answer.

 

Now, in the OT, there were three big revelations. That little green creep is Yoda, Darth Vader is Luke's father, Leia is Luke's sister. We all know PT ruins all those surprises if to watch the SW saga chronologically.

The Yoda stuff is ok. As long as the scene in the mud on Kashyyyk is cut, one may think "oh my, what has happened to Yoda during his exile! He's gone insane!". I mean, one may KNOW it's Yoda, but he doesn't act like Yoda.

The Darth Vader stuff is a bit... well, more complicated. I already said that not mentioning Vader in ROTS won't do the trick in my opinion. It would require a drastical change of ANH, really. Not only the dialouge in Obi's hut, but also Vader's lines and their talk during their duel and stuff. It's not that hard to keep Leia a secret to the public, but the fact that Darth Vader is Luke's father... It has to be thought deeply, just keeping Vader out of ROTS won't do it, really.

 

Now, what are the revelations of PT? The main revelation should be, Sidious = Palpatine. I think it's there, I don't know. I knew for a long time Sid was Palpy. Any other stuff?

While there has yet to be a 100% perfect (in my view) 'tinkerers edit' of the PT trilogy there are many that come close to what you have suggested.

On this very thread I was prompted to seek and download the Slumberland Edits which make most of PT flow exeptionally well (one of the highlights being Jar Jar who is essentially the same character, has the same voice and does much of the same things but is far from annoying and actually made me laugh for the first time in almost a decade).

There are so many edits out there that try this method of trimming the deadwood from PT that when setting up this thread I thought it would be a good idea to really push the boat out and come up with ways to go beyond just trimming the annoying bits and actually try and make the material (with some manipulation) go much further than that, thus the 'radical' in the thread title.

It was inspired by Ady's announcement to remove Threepio from all but ROTS:R but it wasn't just for Ady it was for people on here to really let there imaginations go wild and suggest ideas that anyone could use.

Ideas like changing Naboo to Alderaan (while not to everyone's taste) would really shake up the prequel trilogy (in this case by giving us some time with Leia's homeworld so it becomes really painful to see it destroyed in ANH).

That's the sort of thing this thread is for.

Most of the suggestions you have made have been done already by other people in other edits, so get downloading, get watching and if they still don't hit you in that special place, make your own edit (I'd certainly watch it and most of us on here would too).

As well as giving the Ewoks some facial expressions (and hopefully a few scary ones) I've always wanted to see Jabba get a bit more articulation (especially around the mouth). He speaks a complex language yet his mouth does little more than flap open and shut and stick his tongue out, which was all they could do back then but hopefully Ady could weave some of the magic we saw in his cantina redo and give the big guy a smile, a smirk and a frown or two. He's suppossedly furious at the death of his Rancor but all he does is rock back and forth like a dog with worms (sorry about that mental image folks).

Has anyone tried replacing the infamous "Nooooooooo!" (or "Not Want!" for certain Oriental bootleggers) near the end of ROTS with the sound of rage in this fun piece of prostitution of the holy trilogy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhsSrtyGBSA

adywan said:

Going a bit off topic here but i was watching ROTJ in HD tonight and i had always though that the Coruscant footage was people celebrating and pulling down the statue. i always though where the hell are the imperials and that the celebrations were too soon. But i was wrong. Upon closer inspection the crowd at the front aren't celebrating at all but are in fact a mob crowd attacking a stormtrooper. Ben Burtt totally screwed up the sound FX on this one. Should have been the sound of an angry mob and not a celebration.

There is some real potential for a sequel series to ROTJ here. The Stormtroopers (assuming they are still Clones) were created by the senate to protect the Republic. They were genetically programmed to obey orders without question so can they be held responsible for what they did during the Imperial period?  To maintain the Empire there must have been millions of them so what happens to them after the civil war (will the New Republic start it's new age by building concentration camps for the genetically modified and brain washed consequences of the Old Republic's assisted suicide?) How does the New Republic deal with the possiblity of someone else building a Death Star now that the technology has been proved to work? Does it build it's own?

Love the idea of redubbing the scene as a riot BTW.

Octorox said:

Mock-Up Time!

 

I must confess the chap on the bottom looks more frightening to me and I got a second opinion from the better half too.

The dark eyes and mouth against the white fur looks more like a skull.

But, it's only by making mock ups like this that we can be sure of these things.

I'd be happy to keep a few flashes of SE Wampa but the armless shot looked very silly.

Darth Solo said:

Bingowings said:

(good thinking that Red chap).

 

Im not really red...

 

Shatter my dreams why don't you...there I was thinking add a big white beard to Darth Solo and there's Santa's secret ID broken.

I suppose next you will telling me he's not real either.

Darth Solo said:

Or how about a panning shot of the surrounding area as viewed through Lukes eyes with a brief snow drift with wind SFX, as if to show Luke is still scanning his surroundings during the conversation, and misses the approaching Wampa?

That'll do, there must be plenty of films you could pull a suitable snowscape from (good thinking that Red chap).

Octorox said:

adywan said:

Midichlorians took away all the mysticism that the force once had before the PT. Thanks to that damn saga people now think of the force on a completely different level. It didn't need to be bloody microscopic lifeforms that give people the power to use the force.  In the OT the force had a spiritual and religious nature about it whereas the PT took away all that and replaced it with a scientific explanation. Some people had the ability to use the force while others didn't. Its the same in every day life here. But that didn't need to be explained away as the ones that could use the force had a higher midibloodychlorian count. The OT had the spiritualism aspect and the PT need to be changed to reflect that. There will be no midichlorians in the PT revisited saga. All you have to do is remember Yodas speech about the force in ESB. No midichlorians

For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you...me...the tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and the ship!

Can you imagine that same speech in the PT?

For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Create it and make it grow the midichlorians do. Their energy inside us it is. Symbiotic beings are we... this crude matter we are not. Embrace your inner midichlorians you must. Here, between you...me...the tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and the ship!

I agree that the technology seems light years ahead of what we see in the OT. GL should have shown how the clone wars caused the shift in technology and that times became hard and things technologically wise had come to a standstill. Things in ROTS should have had the "lived in" look that they did in the OT. The clone wars would have used a lot of resources and money and the Empire was starting to take a grip. The end shot in ROTS shouldn't have shown the Death Star being created but instead a vast shipyard of the Imperial fleet being built (which it will do in my edit). So all available money was being ploughed into creating the Empire. The whole ending of that movie was just too rushed to tie up all the loose ends

My biggest gripes with the tech are the shape shifting bionicle droids and other superfuturistic "war of the worlds" type designs. why is Vader a wheezing clunky metal man when Grevious could climb up walls and fight 4 jedi at once? I really want to see some rebel ships in prime condition too. I think the seperatists should use more of those.

 

The Clone Wars series has already shown Y-Wings (in their prime) being used by the Republic http://flickr.com/photos/rocketseason/sets/72157608098402281/

It would be nice to see some more though and perhaps on the otherside.

Removing all reference to muddy chlorines is relatively simple and has proven to work in earlier edits (the Slumberland Edits are one example where I didn't really notice the references being cut until after the event).

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

Sevb32 said:

Octorox said:

Sevb32 said:

the idea of 3po not appearing til ROTS doesn't bug me, but how will you be able to pull that off with all the scenes he's appeared in?

 

When I first heard Anakin built (actually rebuilt) C-3PO I cringed because it seemed contrived, but that was only because I saw the OT first, if I had seen Episode 1 first it would not seem so small and contrived, it works if you watch them from 1-6 for the first time. It's also symbolic of what Anakin largely becomes. The droids are Anakin and Padme's and they are left with the Organas and Captain Antilles at the end of EP3. Why is that so bad, or hard for some people?

Owen not recognizing 3PO is a no-brainer, it's 22 years since he's seen him, C3PO is gold plated, a common looking droid and not the grungy thing he was 22 years prior. Owen seems to regard droids as only appliances anyway, and never even is told 3PO's name by the time he dies a day or two later in ANH.

 

It all just seems a bit too convenient. 3PO does or says nothing important in all of the PT. He could probably be painted out frame by frame. I would however like to see 3PO in all three movies. Just have him property of Padme throughout the PT, that way some of his interactions with R2 could be preserved.

 

But, like I said, would it still seem so convenient if you had not seen the OT first?

 

On the EU issue, it's strange to me why EU doesn't count and carries no weight of truth to some people, but yet a fanedit does.

Sorry to be a git about it but this thread is really about ESB:R, other threads are out there for other projects (I'm as guilty as anyone of going a bit OT here but it would be a shame if this thread became bogged down in discussions which could and should take place somewhere else).

I think I mentioned elsewhere but for ESB I am rather keen to get rid of that pointless tiny shot of Han on his Tauntaun as he is talking to Luke just before the Wampa attack.

We hear him speaking, so we don't need to see him and it is a really bad special effects shot.

It could be replaced if the sound mix can't be jigged to account for the missing frames but as it stands it sticks out like a sore thumb (for me).

 

But what you replace it with? It isn't just a case of changing the sound to account for missing frames but how about the missing frames between the two shots of Luke? pretty much impossible because the jump would stick out like a sore thumb. I have been able to fix some missing frames of Luke in the wampa cave where one shot was split in two from the original to add the wampa footage and 5 frames became lost, but that was just 5 frames.

As you can see it would be impossible to remove that shot of Han without causing a major problem.

Perhaps you could make a new shot (yes it's more work and I know you already have a lot on your plate) just a snow shot or a snow shot with some mysterious movement to set up the Wampa stomp. Alternatively you could swap a shot from the sequence where Han goes out looking for Luke (where perhaps a tiny long distance shot of Han might add to the feeling of desolation during at that point in the story where it makes more sense) but anything would be better than that shot at that point.

The really hard work option would be attempting to get the Tauntaun's head to drift in (via a model insert) and out of the shots to cover the missing frames.

Great work at bringing back those frames, it's always nice to see more Mark even if it is just a few frames.

Sevb32 said:

Octorox said:

Sevb32 said:

the idea of 3po not appearing til ROTS doesn't bug me, but how will you be able to pull that off with all the scenes he's appeared in?

 

When I first heard Anakin built (actually rebuilt) C-3PO I cringed because it seemed contrived, but that was only because I saw the OT first, if I had seen Episode 1 first it would not seem so small and contrived, it works if you watch them from 1-6 for the first time. It's also symbolic of what Anakin largely becomes. The droids are Anakin and Padme's and they are left with the Organas and Captain Antilles at the end of EP3. Why is that so bad, or hard for some people?

Owen not recognizing 3PO is a no-brainer, it's 22 years since he's seen him, C3PO is gold plated, a common looking droid and not the grungy thing he was 22 years prior. Owen seems to regard droids as only appliances anyway, and never even is told 3PO's name by the time he dies a day or two later in ANH.

 

It all just seems a bit too convenient. 3PO does or says nothing important in all of the PT. He could probably be painted out frame by frame. I would however like to see 3PO in all three movies. Just have him property of Padme throughout the PT, that way some of his interactions with R2 could be preserved.

 

But, like I said, would it still seem so convenient if you had not seen the OT first?

 

On the EU issue, it's strange to me why EU doesn't count and carries no weight of truth to some people, but yet a fanedit does.

Sorry to be a git about it but this thread is really about ESB:R, other threads are out there for other projects (I'm as guilty as anyone of going a bit OT here but it would be a shame if this thread became bogged down in discussions which could and should take place somewhere else).

I think I mentioned elsewhere but for ESB I am rather keen to get rid of that pointless tiny shot of Han on his Tauntaun as he is talking to Luke just before the Wampa attack.

We hear him speaking, so we don't need to see him and it is a really bad special effects shot.

It could be replaced if the sound mix can't be jigged to account for the missing frames but as it stands it sticks out like a sore thumb (for me).

adywan said:

RoccondilRinon said:

I just found this thread and have to say I love the idea of removing references to Naboo and calling the planet Alderaan. If it can be pulled off, it should be done.

But you would have to remove the end battle from TPM totally for a start. Remember Leia says "Alderaan is peaceful, we have no weapons"  yet the Gungans do and Naboo have starfighters. Then there's the matter of Bail organa. Now in the PT a senator represents the planet. Palpatine is senator for Naboo then becomes chancellor and Padme then takes his place, but Bail is also a senator. There are just too many things that would need to be changed to make Naboo into Alderaan without making the PT even more conflicting with the OT than it is already

 

Leia does say "Alderaan is peaceful" but not pacifist.

It would be understandable if it had a small defence force of short range fighters and a standing defensive army but not enough to mount an offensive attack on anybody else.

Also Leia is speaking after the rise of the Empire where such force may have been outlawed but may have been in existence during the time of the Old Republic .

Either way it's largely academic as Leia isn't being honest.

Alderaan is a key supporter of the heavily armed Rebel Alliance, her own ship has weapons and the crew too can be armed to defend the ship ( all be it in a limited capacity when facing the might of an Imperial Star Destroyer).

She's really saying that Alderaan isn't heavily armed or openly rebelling against the Empire (even if they have some weapons and are secretly rebelling against the Empire).

She follows this dissemblance with an out and out lie about the location of the Rebel base.

So her words aren't a serious impediment for merging both planets into one the only objection that really counts is the tastes and decisions of any editors considering the idea.

Even the multiple representative problem isn't a real obstacle, as I posted earlier the British monarch represents UK in some capacities while the Prime Minister represents the UK in others.

Padme could be the constitutional head of state as Queen (later replaced by Viceroy Bail Organa when she steps down), while Senator Palpatine/ Senator Amidala could be the elected representative in the Senate. When the Republican Senate becomes the Imperial Senate Bail could still be the head of state and his daughter could the elected representative. Each of the Senate pods held several people so this structure could have been similar in all the represented worlds.

So it's more up to you and other editors if you want to run with the idea, there is nothing in OT that really gets in the way of implementing this change but as these are your edits you may not wish to go down that route.

Monroville said:

Again, I think its fine if they were different wampas of perhaps even different sexes.  Like the female hunts while the male eats at home, like lions, but the horn differences more like the difference between cows and bulls.

I know this has been beaten to death, but wouldn't it be easier just to remove the horns from the later "inside the cave" shot

and have the wampa keep the 1st image appearance?  Those horns just don't work!

Ady's horns only become an issue if you are the sort of person who watches a Star Wars film at one frame per 25 minutes on 12 mile wide screen (time to go back to the drawing board then Adywan).