EddieDean said:

Tales of the Jedi thoughts!

OK, so I’ve just watched through the six Tales of the Jedi shorts which were just released. Firstly, they’re all brilliant. Lovely little vignettes, and I hope for more. But, importantly, they’re all very relevant to The Clone Wars, or at least the prequel era.

I’d appreciate any additional thought you guys can afford here:

SPOILERS BELOW

So, chronologically we now have:

• TOTJ - Life and Death: Ahsoka’s birth and discovery as a Jedi
• TOTJ - Justice: Dooku and Qui-Gon search for a captured Senator’s son
• TOTJ - Choices: Dooku and Mace clash over the Jedi’s role
• THE PHANTOM MENACE
• TOTJ - The Sith Lord: Concurrently with to just after the end of TPM, Dooku becomes Sidious’ apprentice
• ATTACK OF THE CLONES
• THE CLONE WARS BEGIN
• TOTJ - Practice Makes Perfect: From the beginning to end of The Clone Wars, Ahsoka trains against Clones
• REVENGE OF THE SITH
• THE CLONE WARS CONCLUDE
• TOTJ - Resolve: At the end of RotS, Ahsoka meets Bail at Padmé’s funeral, then some time later, defeats an inquisitor and rejoins the fight

So let’s take that bite by bite, Ahsoka’s episodes first.

–

Life and Death

This is the first chronological story now in film or TV media. It’s not particularly illuminating, though it is good. But, like some moments in the Star Wars saga, like Andor’s flashbacks and Mando’s flashbacks, it really belongs around the introduction of the focal character (i.e. early in The Clone Wars) or at a moment when it can support the present-day story.

I don’t think we really have any options for the latter, since taming a beast or showing an innate connection to the natural world doesn’t feature as a major storyline in any of the Ahsoka episodes. It does feature Togruta heavily, which does mean it could possibly pair with the Kadavo slavery arc where they’re captured and Ahsoka is involved in their escape. You could possibly, possibly pair it with the Lurmen arc, but I don’t think that connection is strong enough.

However, TCW:R (and TCW) had a very weak opening, with the Christophsis and Malevolence stories. Both could be suitable - it could open Christophsis, or interleave with it, or it could open Malevolence once we’ve been formally introduced to Ahsoka in the prior episode. (Though, I’m suprised Dave didn’t choose to include Plo Koon in any of these stories, especially the one where Ahsoka is discovered). I think the former is probably a sensible move - either as a cold open to my Christophsis episode (in which case fairly early we get the “I’m Ahsoka Tano” moment), or slightly intercut around the opening - a cold open for her birth, then my episode’s current opening until Ventress is fought, then back to Ahsoka, then a light twist as she walks out of the ship, now a padawan. It could replace the Ventress fight, for a trimmed intro to that plot, but I think even though Ventress doesn’t tie into the episode’s plot, the way she’s used here works well with the focus on her early in this season (and, remember, the original show also had her show up then disappear here too).

I think one of these Christophsis options is where I’m leaning, so we meet Ahsoka and then Anakin does - and this would also help cement her as the core figure of TCW:R.

Now, this content does have a different graphical style, but the Clone Wars are very much a multimedia project, and so is TCW:R. If anyone was watching chronologically, they’d have to shift media as they went. Obviously it’s a bit much to do it in one episode, but here I think story is key - having a compelling opening to the saga and the show trumps visual inconsistency. Plus, it doesn’t feature the same character models, so there’s less of a clash.

–

Practice Makes Perfect

The core of this story is showing Ahsoka during three different stages of the Clone Wars (as illustrated by her three character models matching TCW’s), showing that throughout the wars, Anakin trained her (relentlessly) against Clones, which ultimately helped her win her final fight of the Clone Wars. Again it’s very poignant and good fun, though not vital.

You could make this a flashback in the final episode, but I think that’d distract us from its tension, and besides, the show really feels like it has a gap early where we don’t really see Anakin train Ahsoka. So it’d be nice to see some of that early, to help us build that relationship. In that case, you have two options: Split it or keep it together. Obviously either way, that last segment (set during the final episode) is too light to carry any story on its own, so if you did split it, at the end of the show you’re reliant on the audience remembering the setup, but I think that’s OK. (Though it’s a cute enough moment that I might just add into my own final episode for a little extra flavour.)

But as for the main training sequences (set early in the war, and then when she switches to two lightsabers), again we have some choice. If we want any of it right at the start, we have to split it, which would be fine, and maybe a little early training cut into an early episode would be fun, but then that leaves the two-lightsaber part a bit orphaned.

But here’s an idea: Those two parts together land either side of the transition point where Ahsoka changes character models. (Note: In the earlier part, she’s in a slightly more covered-up version of her usual early outfit, which could also imply a small time skip, but it’s clearly not long after as the clones are still Phase 1) So, why not set it at that transition point? Why not, even, merge it with my existing bonus episode set exactly then - Tales from the Clone Wars, which features some remaining Ahsoka/Padmé content from the Forces of Destiny shorts, plus the as-yet unused early episodes from the 2003 Tartakovsky miniseries (so it’s already multimedia!) To be cute, I could open on Ahsoka’s early clone training until she blacks out, then play out the FOD/2003 content, then fade back in to her waking up in her more mature character model. (Cheekily, that’d also slightly explain why those are cartoon, and also allow them to be a little less than canon if the viewer prefers.)

I think this is quite an elegant one - an enhanced s03e00. It would also really cement that time as Ahsoka’s transition point, with a lot of episodes where she really starts to develop on her own beyond Anakin.

–

Resolve

This one shows Ahsoka, far from the Republic or war, until she’s finally drawn back into the plot (she’ll next appear in Rebels) by an inquisitor. It’s cool and interesting for this to be our first appearance of an inquisitor chronologically, I think! Like my existing thoughts on when flashbacks belong (at the point they become relevant to the present), I’d tend to treat this whole episode as a coda rather than trying to shoehorn the scenes at Padmé’s funeral into ROTS or the final TCW episode. Therefore I think this is indeed TCW:R’s expected s05e05 - “Coda: Ahsoka”.

…Either that, or it belongs in Rebels, at the moment just after the end of season one, where Ahsoka is revealed to the main characters and audience (probably as its own little standalone season one coda, or a season two prelude).

Anyway, that then does raise the question for me regarding what to do with TCW finale’s original in-episode coda (let’s call it “Coda: Anakin”), where Vader finds Ahsoka’s lightsaber. Thematically, it hits really nicely where it is, pinned to the end of the episode (though set much later, during the stormtrooper era of the Empire). Chronologically, it comes after Coda: Ahsoka (at least its intro with clone troopers), and probably before Kenobi (since it implies a glimmer of light is still in Anakin, which we know gets buried much more over time). Perhaps we conclude “Coda: Ahsoka” with it that moment, as a paired “Coda: Ahsoka and Anakin” (to balance “Coda: Maul and Obi-Wan”) or perhaps we simply have three codas.

–

The Dooku Content

Hot dang! GREAT trilogy of episodes, and lots to think about here. Firstly, I don’t think they’re super relevant to the Clone Wars in particular. Dooku, during the Clone Wars, is a loyal villain, but he doesn’t have any strong moments which would be better served by any of this content. BUT they’re useful to the prequel trilogy and the saga as a whole.

Let’s just remember for a moment that I think that Ahsoka’s first episode belongs as a TCW flashback, which makes these the chronologically first movie or TV media. In this case, these episodes actually do a suprisingly useful thing: They do a far better job of introducing us to the Star Wars setting than The Phantom Menace does! While they don’t introduce us to the main characters of the prequels, in a very compelling way they give us exposition on the Republic, the Senate (and its corruption), the Jedi (and their tense role within that power structure and primary use as negotiators before warriors), and the Jedi’s basic powers (lightsaber combat, pushing, choking). It’s an excellent intro for a new viewer!

So, simple option here would be - watch Dooku 1 & 2 before TPM, and Dooku 3 just after, to neatly set up AOTC. (Call that all season zero of TCW:R if you like, “Prelude to the Clone Wars”.)

But, if we can tolerate live action and animation combined, perhaps there’s a blend of TPM and these episodes that could make the experience stronger together. You’d open on Dooku 1, playing out the whole thing, then doing something (an iris wipe, or maybe just something with the crawl if you used Dooku 1 as a cold open) to highlight that Qui-Gon was in both, and hand the story over to him. Then, sometime during the first two thirds of the story (before Mace is seen on the council), intercut with Dooku 2 (which puts Mace on the council and frustrates Dooku). Then, when the gang are on Coruscant, put in Dooku’s conversation with Qui-Gon from Dooku 3, and finally, after the ending (though you could skip the celebration element, for tonal consistency) conclude Dooku 3 on the Yaddle fight. To achieve this last point, you’d change Yaddle’s dialogue so she was implying the other masters had already headed off to Qui-Gon’s funeral.

That intercutting could be a movie, which I think would likely not please enough people to be worthwhile (as this is TPM we’re talking about), but it could be just a series of wildly different length content: Dooku 1 & 2 become TCW:R s00e00, and Dooku 3 becomes s00e03 to be watched after TPM (s00e02).

Thoughts!

The problem with Practice Makes Perfect is that the first part is set in what’s indicated to be shortly after Christophsis (and the following few stories) and that, by extension, those stories are supposed to be a few months after AotC. Obi-Wan still has his AotC hair but doesn’t in Christophsis and Anakin has grown his out a little bit since then. Yoda is even using the exact TCWS1 model.
The problem lies with Ahsoka herself. The change of clothes is fine, it’s a much better outfit than her original one, but her character model is the TCWS3 but one with shorter headtails not the much slighter TCWS1-2 model.

The story has to take place early TCWS1 (i.e. before 2) but Ahsoka looks like she’s from between TCWS2 and 3.

As for Ahsoka’s origin, parts of it can be cut into different episodes I think. Add a flashback style filter to it and it’d fit in the Slavery arc, the hunted by Trandosians arc, and hunted by the clones arc. So no episode is bogged down by the full story but it’s gradually revealed over time.

Fullmetaled said:

Is there a way to fix the continuity errors caused but the final clone wars season and the first episode of the bad batch. Kanan saying the clones said didn’t mean to turn on the Jedi. saying it was the chips that made them do it and Rex and the other clones saying they removed their chips and never turned on their Jedi.

That’s not a continuity error, that’s Rex lying to himself and Kanan. He’s probably not very happy with himself for it.

I hope to give your final episodes a watch before then.

EddieDean said:

Question: Since this show will have a coda (Maul and Obi-Wan from Rebels), and potentially another coda (Ahsoka from Tales of the Jedi), should I consider cutting out the very final scene from Victory and Death (you know the one) and making that a third coda, rather than keeping it within its own episode? It is very much a coda scene, though it follows most naturally from its preceding episode. It might merge well with the Ahsoka coda, leaving us with a Maul and Obi-Wan one, and an Anakin and Ahsoka one.

I might be late here but I think keep it with the other codas. As much as it worked perfectly in the broadcast episode, if you’re stringing in some other epilogues then it should be treated the same.

I think I like it. AotC is a better film for the symbolism than it is for the story and the colour grading helps with that.

JJPotter said:

Is anyone experiencing issues with Secrets of Dumbledore? I received a message that the file was not working on this person’s system running VLC. I am not seeing issues, but I want to see if others are seeing the same thing.

I’ve had a skip through it and it seems to be fine.

Related I wanted to say I’ve been watching these over the last couple of days back to back and I have to say there’s only occasional moments where I can see seams even knowing where you edited these together. They’re nearly flawless and I can’t imagine the films unextended.

Also, on your back and forth about quality and size, it took me almost a week to download these with my terrible internet, so I just set them to download in the background and picked them up as a surprise at the weekend, whatever quality or size you’ve settled on was worth it, colours are good, there’s no artefacts, blacks stand out properly and the smoothness is good, I had no issues with having to wait for them.

boffy said:

I believe Lawson has since voiced Wedge himself a few times, putting on a US accent for those performances.

As I recall, dubbed American in ANH, fake American in ESB, fake English in RotJ, real American in Rebels (not Lawson), and real Scottish in RoS. Poor guy must have a vocal condition.

DominicCobb said:

Artan42 said:

KumoNin said:

I don’t remember which animated show it was, but I remember him calling some other Darth “Darth” as well

He’s only met Maul, Dooku, and Vader and he calls them by their names.

Wrong, he calls Vader Darth.

There is no ‘twist’ in ESB. It’s no longer 1980 and there’s children just born that already know. Besides episode III is set first so anybody watching will already know who Vader is.

Thanks for letting us know that we should just ignore everything you’re saying.

Oh look, you don’t know how to draw context from previous posts. Let me spell it out so you don’t get even more confused. His calling Vader ‘Darth’ in ANH is an example of early instalment weirdness that needs to be special editioned to fix it and allow it to match developments made since the release of ANH.

Fell free to ignore it, nobody is forcing you to reply to it. If you want to pretend you have to watch ESB before RotS go for it, nobody watching the series on Disney+ or their box sets will be doing that though.

Telion said:

DominicCobb said:

Artan42 said:

There is no ‘twist’ in ESB. It’s no longer 1980 and there’s children just born that already know. Besides episode III is set first so anybody watching will already know who Vader is.

Thanks for letting us know that we should just ignore everything you’re saying.

Arntan you aren’t wrong. In the world of social media we live in today future generation will likely know from a very early age that Vader is Luke’s father. It’s something that people know even when they have never seen Star Wars.
However…
“SPOILERS”
Should Lord of the Rings star with a disclamer saying that Frodo go to Middle Earth heaven at the end of RotK?
What would be the point in watching sixth sence if the movie said Bruce Willi was a ghost in the first line?

Yes, you may already know the plot twist is coming and what it is. But hey, you still watch the movie anticipating the at moment.
Your ideas aren’t to be ignored, but this edit does have very clear goals, and the secret of Luke’s father remaining intact is one of them. And he has already said its staying ‘Darth’ which is fair enough any, way you look at it because he has a lot to do, two whole edits do.

TLDR: Just because people know the twist, doesn’t mean its meaningless. I’d suggest reading the first page of this edit before making suggestsions because they have value, just maybe not suited to this edit.

Does ESB start with a disclaimer that Vader is Luke’s father? No, so why would LoTR? Frodo leaving ME in the context of the films isn’t something previously revealed (it is in the books but they’re a separate medium) nor is it in the Hobbit films so it’s not even comparable. That would be an instance of spoiling something that happens in the end of those films, RotS comes before ESB so there is no spoiling going on.
The ‘twist’ is as meaningful as the identity of the Emperor being Palpatine in TPM and there’s been no attempt made to hide that.

I’m well aware of the goals of this project and Adywan seldom takes suggestions which is why this isn’t a suggestion, it’s commentary on the concept in general highlighted by an edit that fixes the clunkyness of the visuals of ANH without fixing the clunkness of the dialogue. I’m under no illusions that it’d be considered so I don’t consider it ignored.

KumoNin said:

I don’t remember which animated show it was, but I remember him calling some other Darth “Darth” as well

He’s only met Maul, Dooku, and Vader and he calls them by their names.

The Golden Idol said:

Ice said:

Although I don’t think it’s necessary, seeing Guiness’ “Anakin” from ROTJ dubbed in place over the “Darth” would be an interesting excercise for sure. The mouth would have to be animated a little extra

That would ruin the twist in TESB entirely.

There is no ‘twist’ in ESB. It’s no longer 1980 and there’s children just born that already know. Besides episode III is set first so anybody watching will already know who Vader is.

EddieDean said:

I’m still a big fan of modifying her interaction with that woman at the end using TFA dialogue:
“Who are you?”
“None of your business, that’s who!”
–cut to credits–

Ray Palpatine. Then she shoots her with lightning.

RogueLeader said:

marioxb said:

adywan said:

OK, Here is the sneak peek at the new ANH:R HD edit of the Obi-Wan/ Vader duel.
The editing in the HD version differs slightly from the SD version . In the final version there will be two audio tracks: The main 5.1 track will be the music less versions, while track 2 will have the added music as seen in the original SD version of ANH:R

https://youtu.be/HHmlOcakOPs

Looks great! I just can’t help but think that, knowing what we now know, I don’t think Obi Wan would call him “Darth”, would he? I think Anakin or Vader would be better. Maybe both?

Try to imagine a scene where a younger Obi-Wan is confronting Count Dooku and says, “You can’t win, Count.” It feels like a perfectly natural line that he would say, in my opinion. So with that in mind, I think you can easily interpret it as Obi-Wan just calling him by his Sith title. In the past a lot of people have suggested Obi-Wan says it mockingly. Of course, all of this is a retroactive interpretation, but I think it works enough that it doesn’t warrant changing it.

Anyway, great work Ady!

Dooku is almost exclusively addressed as Dooku by Kenobi not Count (though that’s not really the point) and Count can and has been used as a singular address. Darth is however never used as a singular address by any character for any Sith. It doesn’t sound mocking, it’s phrased casually as if Kenobi is using it as a name which doesn’t fit how Kenobi addresses Vader before or since and people in general (he uses names not titles for basically everyone except the Emperor).

DominicCobb said:

There’s no reason why he can’t call him Darth.

Because Darth is not his name and he’s never called him Darth before or since and no other Sith is addressed as just Darth. That’s 3 reasons.

revel911 said:

Artan42 said:

CMMAP said:

Artan42 said:

You have to. I don’t know if episode 4 can be saved. It’s bad bad. No underwater security? Darth Vader now speed walks? Snow speeders just hover oddly? vader doesn’t kill failures? Obiwan thinks a trench coat for a disguise will work? I literally cannot think of one salvageable moment? What if Obiwan let the water come in and they will escaped through the water?

Either way it would be convinient and/or bad writing. How so? Obi-Wan doesn´t have the opportunity to look for a better disguise (per your argument) because the writers deem it to be that way. So your rhetorical questions running nowhere.

Unless the Empire has Bantha costumes knocking around for R&R events then there’s no disguise he could have worn at all that would have hidden Leia as well. That’s not the writing, that’s just bad viewing of a scene that doesn’t require other interpretation. Also bare in mind he made it to within a few metres of the shuttles so it must have been an effective disguise.

If Obiwan was in a Storm Trooper outfit with Leia in a supply crate being wheeled/hovered around, that could have worked. What if it wasn’t them caught, but then Tala for the earlier scene as a potential spy.

Because that wouldn’t have been quick. The point is to show the time crunch the escape is under, having time to change into a full set of armour and dig out a crate would not convey a hurried rush in the same was as throwing on a coat did.

The real question is why not bring more rebreathers and escape under water in the first place.

CMMAP said:

Artan42 said:

You have to. I don’t know if episode 4 can be saved. It’s bad bad. No underwater security? Darth Vader now speed walks? Snow speeders just hover oddly? vader doesn’t kill failures? Obiwan thinks a trench coat for a disguise will work? I literally cannot think of one salvageable moment? What if Obiwan let the water come in and they will escaped through the water?

Either way it would be convinient and/or bad writing. How so? Obi-Wan doesn´t have the opportunity to look for a better disguise (per your argument) because the writers deem it to be that way. So your rhetorical questions running nowhere.

Unless the Empire has Bantha costumes knocking around for R&R events then there’s no disguise he could have worn at all that would have hidden Leia as well. That’s not the writing, that’s just bad viewing of a scene that doesn’t require other interpretation. Also bare in mind he made it to within a few metres of the shuttles so it must have been an effective disguise.

revel911 said:

jrs81 said:

This episode just screamed TV filler episode and a bad one at that. Thankfully, it shouldn’t be too hard to skip it in the movie edits. While Obi-Wan is fighting Vader, Leia actually gets to the transport ship and is not intercepted by Reva. Also fixes the Reva magically appearing at the end of the tunnel.

Utilize the Bacta tank opening scene as a transition to “hopefully” Episode 5. Possibly utilize some of the other inquisitor base scenes to fill out transitions.

You have to. I don’t know if episode 4 can be saved. It’s bad bad. No underwater security? Darth Vader now speed walks? Snow speeders just hover oddly? vader doesn’t kill failures? Obiwan thinks a trench coat for a disguise will work? I literally cannot think of one salvageable moment? What if Obiwan let the water come in and they will escaped through the water?

Well it could be saved by you just watching it better.

There’s limited security because they feel confident nobody would attack a castle full of Sith, they say that at least twice. Vader can always walk quickly and has done before, he just mostly strolls out of choice. The speeders have appeared a single other time in VI where they had no need to hover so that’s not even slightly a valid criticism. Oddly enough Obi-Wan was trying to escape from the castle and didn’t have time to stop off in the TARDIS wardrobe for a better disguise and used the only thing he had at the time. Oh, and only Obi-Wan has a rebreather, how do you think he’s going to get Leia and the spy out underwater?

Now if only we had the technology to scale up the Fifth Brother by about a dm and elongate the GIs head.

red41804 said:

Should you use the theme song from “In a Mirror Darkly” for all the opening credits for the series? It fits better as the main theme rather than “Faith of the Heart”.

I doubt that’s within the scope of the project, but also, it doesn’t fit better.

The closing theme is the one originally written for the opening credits anyway.

I really like the newest grade. It helps making the live action and CG look more integrated as well as enhancing the locations without drowning them out.

Oh yeah, I forgot he was in the Genonosis episodes.

ELAYEM said:

So, I came across with this edit of Rex in Episode II and I thought it looked pretty nice (Even though I am not sure if he was meant to be there in canon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0BGszNIcpg

He says early on that he was never on Geonosis, but Cody was and I think Wolfe also.

This is looking transformative.

This is looking transformative.

RogueLeader said:

What do you mean “betrays”, Artan? In the original deleted scene, Jerjerrod does order to fire on Endor. I do think it would be cool to recut that scene so he never gives the order, though.

His hesitation is evident as if he’s trying to convince himself not to give the order. He spends a lot of time dithering after the gunner tells him ‘Moon Target is in range’, they get in target before the Falcon enters the superstructure and doesn’t say ‘fire’ until the Falcon is at the core.

It’s a shame Jerjerrod’s role in the film wasn’t given to Piett. The deleted scenes of Jerjerrod and Vader and then Jerjerrod questioning and finally betraying the Empire would have hit a lot more if it had been Vader’s right-hand admiral.

I’d propose a perfectly simple and easy AI remaster of the deleted scenes and a extensive deepfake of Piett’s face over Jerjerrod’s and total AI generated dialogue and then to replace the chump on the Executor with Jerjerrod. Shouldn’t take more than 5 years…

I agree with most of the comments on Facebook. Loosing the extended Death Star battle especially is a sore loss.