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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 4

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HotRod said:

Well that was …shit!

Still a better love story than Twilight. But not as good as TNNRRPPB.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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I feel like I’m in the gray area. I didn’t love it, but I didn’t dislike it either (well, kind of). For now, I’ll be giving it a 6/10.

I didn’t like how Rey was basically RotJ Luke after absolutely no training, how she managed to connect to the force so quickly. I get it, she’s super powerful, but one must struggle. I thought she would fail, she’d be more challenged than she was in the movie and in the last one. When it came to her actions, took by her with “no influence”, she made a bad decision, but the consequence of that was -1 Sith Lord in the galaxy. So it worked.
Luke taught Rey philosophical lessons, like Yoda did to him, but he didn’t teach her anything on how to use the force, and yet she looks and moves like a Jedi master. I guess it’s because everyone felt overpowered in this movie, but Rey is like a sore thumb to me. Seriously, it was almost comical how powerful Snoke was, for example. The movie also felt rushed in a couple of places, which gave me a “they’re remaking the OT in 1,5 movies instead of 3” feeling. Ughhh.
Because of the jokes and the humor, the tone at times felt a bit all over the place. That terrible first scene with awful jokes followed by the sacrifice of Rose’s sister is an example of this.
I realize I’m nitpicking a lot, but even the whole plot of simply staying out of range and trying to escape the First Order felt stupid to me. It was like “TESB - Stupid Version”.

I hope I didn’t sound like an idiot with this, but something tells me I did.

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DominicCobb said:

People are going to warm up to this one. It’ll take some time, because it’s so different. But it will happen.

I think you’re right. I can already feel myself warming up to it a bit, definitely gonna have to watch it again.

I was there

#rotjpigmengate

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Jeebus said:

DominicCobb said:

People are going to warm up to this one. It’ll take some time, because it’s so different. But it will happen.

I think you’re right. I can already feel myself warming up to it a bit, definitely gonna have to watch it again.

I’m excited to watch again too. The funny thing is I guess I’m the opposite of everyone - the first time I saw TFA I just thought it was pretty good, with some issues, but I eventually warmed up to it and really loved it on my subsequent viewings. With TLJ it was an intense love affair from start to finish.

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Yeah, I will watch it again tomorrow as well. Perhaps I will warm up to it too, but I will say, that despite it’s weak execution in the prequels, Lucas’ six episode saga had some underlying themes of hope and redemption that have gone by the wayside with this installment, like for example Luke who transcended his masters’ pessimism by believing in his overtly evil father’s capacity for good, now contemplating killing his nephew for having dark thoughts, and Leia ultimately giving up on her son at the end of this film. I know most people wanted to originality for TLJ, but this seems like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

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DrDre said:

Yeah, I will watch it again tomorrow as well. Perhaps I will warm up to it too, but I will say, that despite it’s weak execution in the prequels, Lucas’ six episode saga had some underlying themes of hope and redemption that have gone by the wayside with this installment, like for example Luke who transcended his masters’ pessimism by believing in his overtly evil father’s capacity for good, now contemplating killing his nephew for having dark thoughts, and Leia ultimately giving up on her son at the end of this film. I know most people wanted to originality for TLJ, but this seems like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

If you think they abandoned the theme of hope in this… I don’t know what to tell you but… watch the film again, I think you’ll see it’s very much there.

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I’m possibly in the wrong thread (I’m still mulling over how I feel about this movie) but I don’t understand the space casino plot at all. It seems to me that all Poe and Finn did was go against orders and get a lot of people killed for no reason. Why didn’t Laura Dern just tell Poe what the plan was? And why didn’t they just get a droid to stay behind on the rebel cruiser? It could’ve been an awesome Threepio-sacrifice moment…

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@DrDre You pretty much summed up how I feel. It feels like a betrayal of everything that came before. I keep falling in-between hating it and respecting what it did.

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DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

Yeah, I will watch it again tomorrow as well. Perhaps I will warm up to it too, but I will say, that despite it’s weak execution in the prequels, Lucas’ six episode saga had some underlying themes of hope and redemption that have gone by the wayside with this installment, like for example Luke who transcended his masters’ pessimism by believing in his overtly evil father’s capacity for good, now contemplating killing his nephew for having dark thoughts, and Leia ultimately giving up on her son at the end of this film. I know most people wanted to originality for TLJ, but this seems like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

If you think they abandoned the theme of hope in this… I don’t know what to tell you but… watch the film again, I think you’ll see it’s very much there.

I actually think they went a bit out of their way trying to force the hope theme on us…

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DrDre said:
There are many twists and turns, which were refreshing, but what are we really left with at the end? The New Republic is completely erased from existence at the start of the film, and we end up with a few dozen rebels as they are now once again called in a single ship having to defeat the FO, who now controls the entire galaxy. Talk about bad odds.

But this was the entire point of the story. The rebels left, are completely fucked. Completely and utterly lost. It is just like any mid-point in a trilogy; their greatest challenges, their greatest struggles - and finding new hope where old hope is lost, and finding strength and friendship in one self and others. How is this an issue? How is this bad for the story? It is a natural and completely realistic progression of the story, and continuation of TFA.

Snoke became a plot device, only to be replaced by his incapable luitenant. Let’s not forget Kylo got his *** handed to him, and since this film directly follows TFA, and his training has not been completed, our main antagonist for episode IX remains just a boy in a mask (only his helmet is now too big), as Snoke called him, a pretender to the throne.

This too, is the point. How is this an issue? It parallels all story we ever know (how many hasn’t lost power to other who wanted their place?, including Star Wars mythos (always two there are, and one to take the other’s place). Snoke literally became a Sith when he did this. He did the exact same thing that Vader did to the Emperor - except for the redemption, which he has not found yet. The entire thing that makes Kylo Ren a character on his own, is that he always had Vader on his shoulders to bear - and Snoke made that perfectly clear. By killing Snoke, Kylo Ren freed himself of this - which took such a toll on him that he saw it as a curse, as something holding him back and poisoning him from the inside, clouding his powers and his motives. Snoke expected him to become Vader - but he couldn’t. Because he wasn’t. He was a boy betrayed by his friend, uncle and Master, and exploited by an old, force-sensitive alien man that only wanted him for his blood. He freed himself from the claws of Luke and Snoke and everything that held him back in The Force Awakens, which is one of the many reasons Rey managed to hurt him so bad he couldn’t believe it himself.

So no? You completely missed the entire story, the entire plot. Before Kylo killed Snoke he was a pretender in a mask. When he killed Snoke and when he confronted Luke, he was the new Leader of the First Order - the true Kylo Ren, a young man betrayed by his biggest role model - the legend Luke Skywalker, his uncle. He lives for his own justice - killing the past, making his own future, with no Vader on his shoulders. A man who follows his own moral compass and not the one others tell him to. His own Master.

However, things are much worse on the side of the good. Whereas Luke took three films and the trials of Job to finally become a Jedi, Rey is now on her way to Jedi Knighthood after just three lessons. Three lessons reluctantly given by Luke are apparently enough for him to pass on the batton, and then just die. We got some Jedi history, which is nice, but apparently Yoda feels Rey and her three lessons worth of Jedi training are already more important than the collected wisdom of the Jedi masters of old. This attitude perfectly encapsulates this film.

Here there is much more room for juicy discussion. This is where we go from your opinions being based on lack of understanding, and over to the more plausible likes or dislikes of the movie that we all have.

What Luke did doesn’t matter for what Rey does. I understand that you’d like more training. That you’d like a Jedi Padawan type of path, just as Luke before her. But that wasn’t this story. This story was about force sensitivty, and how the Jedi were self-obsessed, ignorant fools - worshipping their rules and morals so highly that they surpressed their own humanity, causing their downfall. How the path for new hope and a new future for the Jedi was for the last one to die, for others to be born and do it right. Rey was this person.

Her training wasn’t necessary, because she shouldn’t follow the way of Luke or the Old Republic on Coruscant. She would need to forge her own path and that of others. It isn’t the training that makes the Jedi - it is learning from the Masters and their faults, which is the best way to learn for those who come after. Yoda literally spelt this out. And this person, is Rey. Her training isn’t important. Her understanding is, to forge her own path and that of others - to bring hope back in the Galaxy. In other words, Luke’s death and Rey’s understanding is the spark of fire that will burn the First Order down.

Your review is unfair, because so many points are based on a complete lack of understanding. This movie needs more than one viewing.

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Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

Yeah, I will watch it again tomorrow as well. Perhaps I will warm up to it too, but I will say, that despite it’s weak execution in the prequels, Lucas’ six episode saga had some underlying themes of hope and redemption that have gone by the wayside with this installment, like for example Luke who transcended his masters’ pessimism by believing in his overtly evil father’s capacity for good, now contemplating killing his nephew for having dark thoughts, and Leia ultimately giving up on her son at the end of this film. I know most people wanted to originality for TLJ, but this seems like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

If you think they abandoned the theme of hope in this… I don’t know what to tell you but… watch the film again, I think you’ll see it’s very much there.

I actually think they went a bit out of their way trying to force the hope theme on us…

Luke preemptively wanting to kill his nephew, and Leia accepting her son is lost for me is the opposite of hopeful. It screams pessimism. Parents should not give up on their children, and given Luke’s experience with Vader, his behaviour is inconsistent.

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g-force said:

I thought it was very much like a prequel, without all the bad acting and awful dialogue delivery. It’ll grow on me maybe?

well said!

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Silly question, but does anyone have an opinion on whether I could take my 6-year old to this. He’s not really allowed to view anything violent however I make an exception for Star Wars. I don’t want him to see Tfa as I find Kylo’s murder scenes a little too dark. This didn’t seem nearly as violent. Is it just me?

40,000 million notches away
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Windexed said:

Silly question, but does anyone have an opinion on whether I could take my 6-year old to this. He’s not really allowed to view anything violent however I make an exception for Star Wars. I don’t want him to see Tfa as I find Kylo’s murder scenes a little too dark. This didn’t seem nearly as violent. Is it just me?

It’s more violent than TFA in my opinion. For the entire Snoke throne room sequence alone.

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Beginner of many projects, finisher of few

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Windexed said:

Silly question, but does anyone have an opinion on whether I could take my 6-year old to this. He’s not really allowed to view anything violent however I make an exception for Star Wars. I don’t want him to see Tfa as I find Kylo’s murder scenes a little too dark. This didn’t seem nearly as violent. Is it just me?

A guy get cut in half, a woman blown out a window and most scenes take place at night. Might be too rough. But then again - I watched the exorcist at six years old.

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Windexed said:

Silly question, but does anyone have an opinion on whether I could take my 6-year old to this. He’s not really allowed to view anything violent however I make an exception for Star Wars. I don’t want him to see Tfa as I find Kylo’s murder scenes a little too dark. This didn’t seem nearly as violent. Is it just me?

Well, no main-character is stabbed to death, but there was definetely more violent deaths than TFA. Depends on your priorities. I’d personally say that TLJ is much more intense than TFA overall.

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DominicCobb said:

Yeah, okay… holy fucking shit!

JEDIT: haha of course you guys hated it, what else should I have expected from this joyless site

DominicCobb said:

It honestly seems like there’s no pleasing people. I really don’t know why I’m surprised.

DominicCobb said:

I guess somehow I’m an odd man out even though beyond this site I feel like the response has been overwhelmingly positive.

To address a couple complaints… One of the bigger surprises was that I had no idea this would be the funniest Star Wars film. All of the comedy was pitch perfect, I thought. And am I the only one who LOVED that Leia moment? The only scene that brought tears to my eyes.

I’m very neutral on Luke’s death, I can see both sides of that. Need to watch again.

The biggest disappointment is that they so clearly set up a story that can’t be told anymore.

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

I guess somehow I’m an odd man out even though beyond this site I feel like the response has been overwhelmingly positive.

To address a couple complaints… One of the bigger surprises was that I had no idea this would be the funniest Star Wars film. All of the comedy was pitch perfect, I thought. And am I the only one who LOVED that Leia moment? The only scene that brought tears to my eyes.

I’m very neutral on Luke’s death, I can see both sides of that. Need to watch again.

The biggest disappointment is that they so clearly set up a story that can’t be told anymore.

Which story thread specifically? I do agree that this feels like the end of a saga/trilogy and I’m honestly fine with that. Depending on how episode 9 turns out, I am fine with this as the last film of the saga. Not a cut and dry fairy tale ending but you still feel that Kylo lost and the heroes won. I know it sounds crazy but the emotion feels that way. Not the actual galactic situation.

It seems pretty clear that Leia was going to have a big part in IX, obviously in leading the Resistance but also in mentoring Rey and most likely saving Ben.

DominicCobb said:

What’s funny to me is people complained that TFA played it too safe, now this did the opposite of that and people are still complaining.

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

What’s funny to me is people complained that TFA played it too safe, now this did the opposite of that and people are still complaining.

That’s the thing. At least fans should be a bit consistent. I personally really, really enjoyed The Force Awakens but my main gripe was that it played it too safe. So no wonder the Last Jedi felt so refreshing and amazing to me.

I personally felt that both served the purposes they needed to. As happy as I am that JJ will be back, I do still wish they brought in someone else to bring it somewhere else (though here’s hoping JJ can deliver).

Also, since I guess my review will just come out in random fragments, here’s something I just realized: my least favorite scenes in TFA were Snoke scenes, my most favorite scenes in TLJ were Snoke scenes.

DominicCobb said:

adywan said:

The casino planet actually added quite a bit to the story and for what is to come. Little threads in the film that lead up to the ending and also showed that not everything is black and white (the resistance is dealing with the same people who deal with the first order). The resistance has now become the rebellion and is all but gone at the end of the film. Something that was said earlier on (and again later). “We are the spark that will light the fire that will burn the first order down”.

Canto Bight is a planet where the rich and elite congregate in luxurious overindulgence while the rest of the inhabitants live in extreme poverty and slavery, including the children. Finn and Roses interactions with those inhabitants is a major factor here. they show the willingness to fight for freedom. At the end we see the children telling their story and then a single child use the force to grab the broom, he has the rebellion ring. The seeds of rebellion are planted. So Finn and Rose are that spark that will light the fire that will burn the first order down.

There are so many little details that are easily missed on a single viewing. I’ll write a proper review once i have seen it again. So far i liked it.

Exactly.

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

The animal cruelty message just felt kind of forced in for me. I feel like despite there being some cool stuff on Canto Bight, I feel that cutting it down significantly would benefit the pace of the movie as a whole experience. Each man to their own. Glad to hear about some more people who enjoyed the film.

It wasn’t really an animal cruelty message, that was just used more as a specific example of the pervasive inhumanity of the casino/galaxy at large.

DominicCobb said:

People are going to warm up to this one. It’ll take some time, because it’s so different. But it will happen.

DominicCobb said:

Jeebus said:

DominicCobb said:

People are going to warm up to this one. It’ll take some time, because it’s so different. But it will happen.

I think you’re right. I can already feel myself warming up to it a bit, definitely gonna have to watch it again.

I’m excited to watch again too. The funny thing is I guess I’m the opposite of everyone - the first time I saw TFA I just thought it was pretty good, with some issues, but I eventually warmed up to it and really loved it on my subsequent viewings. With TLJ it was an intense love affair from start to finish.

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

Yeah, I will watch it again tomorrow as well. Perhaps I will warm up to it too, but I will say, that despite it’s weak execution in the prequels, Lucas’ six episode saga had some underlying themes of hope and redemption that have gone by the wayside with this installment, like for example Luke who transcended his masters’ pessimism by believing in his overtly evil father’s capacity for good, now contemplating killing his nephew for having dark thoughts, and Leia ultimately giving up on her son at the end of this film. I know most people wanted to originality for TLJ, but this seems like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

If you think they abandoned the theme of hope in this… I don’t know what to tell you but… watch the film again, I think you’ll see it’s very much there.

Incessantly posting that you hate these movies and backing up with arguments = warnings and bans

Incessantly posting how much you love these movies and arguing with people about their own opinions = great job!

Jay’s once great site now SUCKS!

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Mark Hamill has been a seriously underrated actor for far too long. (Even though he’s probably the best incarnation of The Joker ever.) He played Mozart in Amadeus on Broadway, but likely wasn’t even considered for the film version because he’s forever identified with Luke in a way Harrison Ford doesn’t have to deal with having been both Han and Indy.

Mark just knocked it out of the park with this. I sincerely hope he gets an Oscar nomination. It would be a first for a Star Wars film?

I waited 34 years to see Luke back in action, and it was worth the wait.


Where were you in '77?

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