OT Deleted Scenes Discussion

So, the deleted scenes from the OT are on Youtube, in HD. Check out this guy's channel here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/BetterThanHollywood9

He hasn't upped all of Jedi's yet, but other people have. Here is an example of one of the better ones, developing Jerjerod and the Emperor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9--5hO4BIwc&feature=related

These were interesting enough that I thought it merited having it's own discussion.

My own thoughts:

-On the whole, they aren't amazing or anything, as they were deleted for reasons, but many of them are pretty good, and all of them are interesting. The quality varies around, but most have sound and colour and they are all in HD.

-It's hard to say which of these were newly edited for inclusion here; for instance, the Yoda and Wampa scenes clearly were never included in any cut of the film. The black and white scenes are from the rough cut (I am assuming). Others seem to have been edited back during the cutting stage as they have audio drop-outs and the like which probably means the cutter went as far as prepping them for rough sound design. The "Vader Reaches Out to Luke" was edited, scored and finished with visual effects, but it's the only one. All of the scenes except that tend to need slightly tighter cutting because they never made it to the fine cut where things would be finessed, and some of the cuts are a bit quick or awkward in places too and never got smoothed out.

-The Luke/Toshistation/Biggs scenes are great to see in better quality than Behind the Magic, with the treadwell scene containing many new shots. To me these are some of the best scenes ever shot for Star Wars, but I agree with the editorial team that the film played better with them left out. Actually, I think critics who accused the film of having little character development would have been partly silenced if these made it in.

-The ESB deleted scenes are the best of the bunch. You can see the imprint of Kershner: the performances are by and large outstanding, and he tends to hold on long takes to emphasize performance, and moves his camera to a new position rather than cutting a lot of the time. The Luke-Leia scene on Hoth is so good I wish it was included in the film from the beginning. It also puts a new spin on the kiss they have--it wasn't just to make Han jealous.

-The sandstorm scene in Jedi was much better than I expected. I actually wish they had done the ADR on here, as it seems like it is a much better and more human farewell scene, compared to the final film where Luke just makes a phone call while he drives. How rude! :p

-The scenes with Jerjerrod having to fire on Endor are terrific and would have really amped up the tension in the end, like the ending to the original film where there is a countdown. I assume it was cut because there was so much going on as it was. It would be interesting to see how coherant the film was if this was put back in.

-The most interesting thing is the possibilities for fan editors. It would great to put them all back in for extended cuts. Even if they didn't play as well as the originals--which they likely wouldn't--to see the films expanded and fleshed out more would be extremely interesting. The footage would not match of course, as the scenes all have some level of dirt and scratches, and some are black and white. I doubt anyone would be willing to restore these beyond matching the colour-timing better. But it would still be cool to see. The sound design wouldn't be impossible to work around. There's also extra lines and unused shots in Empire of Dreams that could be used.

Vader joking Jerjerrod isn't as badass as I'd expected... I think partially because of the angle on Vader, and partially because of Prowse's voice.  I do love the satisfaction Jerjerrod has in telling Vader he can't enter, though.

Jerjerrod's conflict, though... WOW, even with no music I can seriously feel the suspense.  Epic scene.  With some cleaning up and added music I think the scene would SERIOUSLY be awesome to put back in for a fan-edit, maybe even Revisited.  It's a great little subplot.

zombie84 said:

The "Vader Reaches Out to Luke" was edited, scored and finished with visual effects, but it's the only one.

I actually have a feeling that this scene was either cut out at an extremely late stage or it was just finished to show off the Blu-Ray set. In any case, I am glad it is since it is a good scene... refers the film right away to ESB.

The Luke-Leia scene on Hoth is so good I wish it was included in the film from the beginning. It also puts a new spin on the kiss they have--it wasn't just to make Han jealous.

This is definitely another extension I wouldn't mind seeing. I have a feeling that they decided to ease down the love triangle a bit in order to keep it a "kid's movie," but seeing a version with that triangle visible would be nice. With some quick dialogue editing, there might also be something in the extended Han/Leia hallway conversation to use...

The sandstorm scene in Jedi was much better than I expected. I actually wish they had done the ADR on here, as it seems like it is a much better and more human farewell scene, compared to the final film where Luke just makes a phone call while he drives. How rude! :p

It is definitely a shining scene, and I have no idea why they would cut it. You can't understand much but even just as a silent and brief scene, it could still work as a transition. The physical actions of all the characters do communicate the feeling of the scene. The problem though is that it needs to be cleaned up... I do hope it ends up in ROTJ: Revisited. :D

The scenes with Jerjerrod having to fire on Endor are terrific and would have really amped up the tension in the end, like the ending to the original film where there is a countdown. I assume it was cut because there was so much going on as it was. It would be interesting to see how coherant the film was if this was put back in.

Granted that the acting is better than I initially stated it to be. I still don't like this scene, along with the Wampa scenes, because none of our main characters are in them. We didn't tend to have many scenes like that throughout the OT that were lengthly... I just don't think it would work, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong by a stunning fan edit.

The most interesting thing is the possibilities for fan editors. It would great to put them all back in for extended cuts.

I would be very interested in "virtual workprint" edits. It would be fantastic if someone inserted these into Puggo's 16mm transfers. They'd blend perfectly and it would have a workprint-esque feel. An edit like this could even be done in mono and black and white and still be fantastic. Another grindhouse edit may be fun too...

Of course, for the more serious edits, I'd be interested to see some of the cleaner scenes reinserted in: (Moff Jerjerrod's scenes).

I doubt anyone would be willing to restore these beyond matching the colour-timing better.

If anyone's interested, I've been testing if I can match the color timing a bit. I don't know much about color correction and am just using VirtualDub, but you can see my attempts at making a less yellow Hoth on my Youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/AluminumFalcon1977?feature=mhee

Wow, I really liked that Jerjerrod scene, probably my favorite deleted scene so far.  We didn't see much of him before, but he's got some depth to him! And cajones I might add.  I won't argue that it wouldn't have cluttered up  the main action (already have a space battle, forest battle, Luke/Vader battle) and would maybe have been too much of a "rhyme" with ANH, but on its own I thought that scene rocked.

The sandstorm scene looked interesting, but I love how the theatrical cut is paced alongside the "The Return of the Jedi" John Williams piece following the barge explosion, skiff escape, and Falcon and X-Wing veering off.  So it might be hard to keep that perfect (in my mind) action/music hand in hand if they inserted that scene.

STAR WARS:

Tosche Station - The famous one. It's been seen before by a small number of people, (and on YouTube, albeit in poor quality) so it's nice that the general public has a chance to see it

Old Woman on Tatooine - She has the exact same reaction when she found out her scenes were cut

Aunt Beru's Blue Milk - Nothing to say about this one. It's basically Aunt Beru pouring a nice tall glass of- well, blue milk!

Cantina Rough Cut - This one was really interesting. You get to see some new creatures, but I think the best part about this alternate scene is hearing Greedo speak in an English accent.

Stormtrooper Search - They should have called it "Watch the midget and the guy on stilts". The weirdest deleted scene from Star Wars.

Darth Vader Widens the Search - Always a pleasure to hear what Darth Vader could have sounded like, and thankfully didn't.

Alternate Biggs and Luke Reunion - I loved this little scene. This one should have been kept in the final film.

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK:

Extended Argument - Some fun little additional banter from Han and Leia.

Luke's Recovery - A bunch of people watching a man shower.

Luke and Leia: Medical Center - Goddamn Return of the Jedi. Why did you have to ruin a perfectly good scene that could have been put back in the SE?

Deleted Wampa Scenes - Ice meets cheesy 50's movie monsters. With some modern CG and dramatic music, this might have potential.

The Fate of General Veers - We see a glimpse of those neato animatics that should have been in the set.

Yoda's Test - The best ESB deleted scene.

Hiding in Asteroid - See title.

Alternate Han and Leia Kiss - It's nice, but I'm glad they went with what they did.

Lobot's Capture - Another scene could make it's way back into the movie.

Leia Tends to Luke - Some nice dialogue coming from Luke and Leia. I might have screwed up the pacing a little, so I'm glad it was left out.

Return of the Jedi is next.

RETURN OF THE JEDI:

Luke Builds His Lightsaber - The most completed scene of the lot, even the F/X work was finished!

Tatooine Sandstorm - Too bad this scene had really loud fans, I thought it could live up to the hype.

Rebel Raid on the Bunker - I love Han's line at the end. "Scum?"

Jerjerrod's Conflict - I love his character. Too bad most of my memory of him is always seeing him on the toy shelves, unloved, because nobody wanted him. :-( These scenes fleshed out his character more.

The Lost Rebels - A mixture of rejected pilots and the turret scenes. General Madine also appears for a visit. Stay tuned for your grandmother in a cameo.

The "Vader Reaches Out" scene wasn't edited and finished for the Blu, it was completed in 1983 and John Williams scored it, but then it cut from the film just as they were about to send the film off. It was a very last minute deletion, probably because they felt Luke already had a dramatic introduction when he appears to Jabba and because it creates buildup the way each character is introduced one after another (Droids, who then witness Leia, who brings in Chewie, who leads us to Lando, and then finally Luke comes and the action starts).

Also, yeah, the deleted ROTJ material makes the film much more adults with the scenes with new Vader-Luke intro and the scenes with Jerjerrod. The Spence Edit, for example, showed how ROTJ could be made more mature just by deleting and re-ordering existing material and this would only add to that. The bunker footage would gives us some action material on Endor near the film's conclusion that for once doesn't involve Ewoks at all.

Tosche station is great to see but I'm glad it's not in. Besides pacing etc., cutting it has the nice effect of making Luke's life seem more shitty. Which makes the adventure of it all more appealing to Luke (and us.)

EMPIRE is mostly good stuff but it's perfect as is and I so don't care about wampas. Never understood why they even bothered with that so much during scripting/production. The bit where concerned Han and the gang are watching Luke in the tank is a nice moment though, I can't see the harm leaving that in, a human moment and it's short.

Luke's introduction and the green saber reveal are better in the actual movie, but the other stuff from JEDI I would've liked left in. (and Lucas' second-unit side project/obsession, the musical number, left out). The moment with Luke and Han under the falcon is a great bookend to the last time they saw each other. As for Jerjerrod's death star scene being too much like the first movie, I think that ship already sailed so it should've stayed.

Han Solo's bar skank is pretty hot.

Maybe with the deleted scenes we can rid the Ewoks from the final battle in RotJ. I made a rough cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K3isOhzHS4

I find it interesting that much of the ROTJ footage (particularly the bunker raid and the "Lost Rebels" stuff) is straight-up unedited.  Like, they didn't even bother trying to make it work when they saw what they got.

After seeing many deleted scenes, I think Lucas missed the boat when he did the SE.  If he would released the OOT and SE with alot of deleted scenes cleaned up and inserted, it would have been interesting to see the movies that way.  I'm not saying it makes the movies better, but THATS an alternative I would be interested to see rather then just stupid PT tie-ins that are jarring.

For instance, I would like to see alot of the early Luke scenes in Star Wars with Biggs and friends.  Now it definitely would slow the pace of the movie, but considering thats my favorite, it would have been interesting to see.

My thoughts about the scenes:

Vaporator/Tosche Station: Good cut - the station sequence ran way too long. They could have kept Luke's original introduction at the vaporator, though.

Old Woman on Tatooine: This scene (even without sound) makes me think it was a remnant of the "American Graffiti in space" concept Lucas was going for. It might have been cool if that shot was restored for the SE, with the landspeeder driving past her into Mos Eisley.

Blue Milk: This was probably just shot for transitional purposes. Don't see what the point is.

Cantina Rough Cut: Is cool. Always has been, always will be. It's interesting that Greedo's original death scene is here.

Stormtrooper Search: Goofy and out of place - good cut.

Vader Widens The Search: Just padding - there's nothing that isn't explained through the film already.

Full Biggs/Luke Reunion: I love Red Leader's dialogue - it makes me wish he was a supporting character in the prequels.

Han/Leia Echo Base Extended Argument: Runs way too long and becomes almost comical by the end - good cut.

Luke's Recovery: I quite like this scene. I felt that the recovery sequence in the finished film was too short and didn't convey the sense of concern the group had for Luke.

Luke And Leia In The Medical Center: The heavy flirtation (and almost-kiss) was a great removal. The subsequent conversation (where Leia is exasperated to find that everyone wants to split up) should have stayed in.

Echo Base Wampa Attack: Stupid, stupid, stupid. It would have killed the pacing of the first 40 minutes, whether the effects were completed or not.

General Veers' Death: I don't think it would have added much to the final battle.

Yoda's Test: It looks very goofy when Mark Hamill is swinging his lightsaber wildly around with the puppet Yoda flailing on his back. Other than that, I don't see much point to what the training scenes already showcased.

Hiding In The Asteroid/Leia and Han Alternate Kiss: It would have killed the pacing of the scene, and the second kiss (I think) would have spoiled the impact of the "I love you/I know" reveal.

Lobot's Capture: Killed the pacing. I loved the theories from years past about Lobot organizing the city to rise up against the Empire from behind the scenes after Lando gave him his marching orders, not him opening a door and getting captured by a pair of Stormtroopers.

Leia Tends to Luke: Pacing. It runs way too long and makes Luke seem flippant about Han's circumstances (the way Hamill says "Poor Han..." is almost anticlimactic).

Vader Talks To Luke/New Lightsaber: Had the goofy "Luuuukkkkee... Luuuuuukkkkkee..." remarks been reduced or removed entirely, this could have been a great scene.

Sandstorm: The best deleted scene on the set, for my money. I love the reprise of the "I owe you one" conversation from the previous film.

Rebel Bunker Raid: Would it have killed Lucasfilm to add a few seconds of this during the final battle instead of the wacky Ewok hijinks?

Jerjerrod's Conflict: The first scene is acted very poorly - Jerjerrod's actor doesn't sell being choked, while Vader looks like he's doing the Pledge of Allegiance when he puts his hand to his chest. Still, I love Jerjerrod's sneer when he says, "YOU may not enter." The second sequence is decent, but it would have killed the pacing of the final battle (that, and it was clearly intended to be a reprise of the Yavin 4 countdown from ANH).

The Lost Rebels: There are a couple lines and shots that could have worked, but most of it is crap. The pilots deliver most of their dialogue in this weird inquisitive tone that sounds less like legitimate concern or reaction and more like complaining about their circumstances. Madine's actor has a very goofy line delivery, and Edie McClurg's "grandmother pilot" performance is hilarious. It would have been nice to see some shots of the Falcon gunners in the final film, though.