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I don't like Apple

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Every time I tell people I prefer PC over Apple products, people tell me Apple is better and that they're so much easier to use. Really? Everytime I have tried to use either an Apple product or software it has been nothing but headaches.

Here's list of reasons why I don't like Apple:

Dysfunctional OS,

The task bar on bottom of the desktop looks flashy, but it makes it hard for me to tell what documents/programs are minimized, with Windows it is clear as day to distinct different documents minimized in the task bar.

GUI,

Windows GUI is very customizable, with Macs you're forced to see what they give you. With Windows you can view your folder files in many different ways from Filmstrip to Details, with Macs you're forced to view files in a list and I like to view them as thumbnails, it feels the most intuitive and comfortable to me. Mac OS GUI don't feel intuitive to me like Windows OS. With Windows I feel like I have a very good sense of where everything is, but with Macs I feel like I'm kind of shooting in the dark.

One-click Mouse,

I know they finally got rid of that damn thing not too long ago, but those things drove me nuts! To right-click you had to hit cnrl first, again, not intuitive.

Quick-keys,

In my experience it seems like Macs require you to learn a lot of quick keys in order to perform functions. With Windows everything is layed out visually so you don't have to learn any quick keys

Screens,

I don't know what it is about Macs, but their screens just don't looks as crisp and clear as PC screens.

Gaming,

They're not designed for gaming and you have to wait a long time for the games to come on in Mac format after they come out for PCs.

Updating,

With all the add-ons/fixes/bugs/viruses these days on the internet you need to update frequently. I don't think Apple has nearly as much updating going on as Microsoft does. Of course they say that their platform is better, that is why they don't have the need to fix as many security holes/bugs/fixes and add-ons. But it is also because a lot less people use them, so it is less of a problem.

Multitasking,

I don't know what the latest macs are like with multitasking, but the ones at my school would go to a crawl anytime you had more than one program running at time.

Video Editing,

Everybody says Macs are the best when it comes to video editing and Photoshop. I've had a better experience doing both on a PC. Again Macs are slower and harder to multitask, key things you need to have when video editing and photoshoping.

Speed,

Macs just by nature seem to be slow and I don't think they can be overclocked?

Proprietary Everything,

With Macs you're forced to buy proprietary everything made by apple. The hardware, software, and even internet connection has to be proprietary and you pay a premium for all these that are way cheaper with PCs for the same performance.

Price,

Everything with apple costs at least twice as much for the equivalent of PCs.

The iPhone,

The iPhone was the most overrated piece of crap. Steve Jobs said the iPhone is going to be way ahead of everything else out there but instead turned out to be 2 years outdated by the time it came out. Many phones had the same features an iPhone had 2 years before it came out. And you're forced to use AT&T for the phone service, buy far the worst and most expensive phone service provider out there. I do know that people can hack iPhones to work with different carriers.

iTunes

I never cared for the software, it's too busy and always pops up after download a music file, and I couldn't find a way to turn that off. It gets annoying. I like to view the files in a folder, with iTunes you have to view them in the software. I heard it will automatically tag your music files but that didn't work for me. I ended up uninstalling the program because of the stupid pop-up feature.

Quicktime,

Quicktime and it seems like every other software program made by Apple runs a lot more resource intensive than any other software made by a different company.

The drag and drop feature,

Their dragging drives into the Trash Bin to eject disks is really old fashioned and amateur. It makes it feel like a computer made for babies.

Amateurish,

It feels like it is made for people who don't know how to use computers

What are you thoughts on Apple products? I have not kept up to date with Apple so they might have changed a lot in the last few years and my complaints about the software might be my fault. I've used older Macs, I know their newer ones are a lot better than their older ones.

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Apple has created a race of digital zombies.  They basically have two kinds of customers - "graphics people" and "everybody else".  If you're a graphics guru, you can't survive professionally without Apple products.  If you're everybody else, you use your computer so little that the limited software assortment doesn't matter.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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I try to stay non-denominational.  I love my ipod and itunes, but I prefer to work on a PC.

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Many of the key Microsoft staples are a bloody disaster but Apple are fast becoming just as bad.

The latest iTunes update collapsed itself and the Airport update has currently locked me out of one machine.

Linux is really the best deal in town.

Almost everything is open source and free of charge and works like a dream Ubuntu is really easy to use and if you use WINE a large number of Windows programs work perfectly well.

I recommend anyone to give it a try and if you don't like what you find just go back to what you were doing before.

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Sluggo said:

I try to stay non-denominational.  I love my ipod and itunes, but I prefer to work on a PC.

I'm with you.

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I like getting a PC, because I know I can add and replace things and make it last a lot longer than I could if I had a Mac. I don't know if they are upgradeable now, but when I last used them you got an awesome computer that you couldn't mess with.

I agree with Bingo about Linux. It is about the greatest thing you can get, it just takes a little learning. I just never got it on this computer, but when I replace it, I plan on getting it.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

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As a Mac user, I'm going to respond to all of your points.

Note I'm not saying OS X is better than Windows (I quite like Windows 7, myself), I just think a lot of your complaints are ill-informed.

A lot of these things depend on the hardware, so maybe the Macs you've been using simply haven't had enough processing power, or RAM, or a good enough video card for you to do all the things you've been bitching about.  (I will admit that you can get a more powerful Windows machine for less money than a less-powerful Mac.)

Anyway, here goes:

Ghostbusters said:

Here's list of reasons why I don't like Apple:

Dysfunctional OS,

The task bar on bottom of the desktop looks flashy, but it makes it hard for me to tell what documents/programs are minimized, with Windows it is clear as day to distinct different documents minimized in the task bar.

Minimized documents/programs are put on the other size of the dividing bar next to the trash can.  Also, the "task bar," as you call it (the dock), can be on the bottom, left, or right of the screen, and you can set it to hide when your mouse is elsewhere so it doesn't get in the way.

GUI,

Windows GUI is very customizable, with Macs you're forced to see what they give you. With Windows you can view your folder files in many different ways from Filmstrip to Details, with Macs you're forced to view files in a list and I like to view them as thumbnails, it feels the most intuitive and comfortable to me. Mac OS GUI don't feel intuitive to me like Windows OS. With Windows I feel like I have a very good sense of where everything is, but with Macs I feel like I'm kind of shooting in the dark.

There are four options in the Finder for viewing files:

  • List (I'm with you, kind of annoying)
  • Columns (my personal preference - I always use this)
  • Thumbnails (this was the default when I first started my Mac)
  • Cover flow (fuck cover flow)


In other words, you're not "forced to see what they give you" - you can change how you view items in the Finder, and your preference - thumbnails - is one of the options.

One-click Mouse,

I know they finally got rid of that damn thing not too long ago, but those things drove me nuts! To right-click you had to hit cnrl first, again, not intuitive.

You basically just said "This complaint is no longer valid, but I'm going to complain about it anyway!"

I'm using a Logitech 3-button mouse with my Mac, and I have been using the same Logitech 3-button mouse for five years on the same Mac.  Two-button mouse capability has been in OS X for a very long time - Apple just didn't sell their own multi-button mice until three or four years ago (and I hate their mice anyway).

Quick-keys,

In my experience it seems like Macs require you to learn a lot of quick keys in order to perform functions. With Windows everything is layed out visually so you don't have to learn any quick keys

I use "quick keys" in Windows more than I use them in OS X.  Besides, it's good to know keyboard shortcuts for any operating system - it exponentially speeds up your workflow.

Screens,

I don't know what it is about Macs, but their screens just don't looks as crisp and clear as PC screens.

...Huh?!

Gaming,

They're not designed for gaming and you have to wait a long time for the games to come on in Mac format after they come out for PCs.

Then use Boot Camp to install Windows on a second partition, and play games that way.  That's what I do.

Besides, I never play games anyway, so I really don't give a damn about that.

Updating,

With all the add-ons/fixes/bugs/viruses these days on the internet you need to update frequently. I don't think Apple has nearly as much updating going on as Microsoft does. Of course they say that their platform is better, that is why they don't have the need to fix as many security holes/bugs/fixes and add-ons. But it is also because a lot less people use them, so it is less of a problem.

As someone who switches between OS X and Windows 7 semi-regularly (as in, I'll use my Windows partition once a month or so), I update on my OS X side multiple times per month, whereas I update once every two or three months on my Windows side.

Multitasking,

I don't know what the latest macs are like with multitasking, but the ones at my school would go to a crawl anytime you had more than one program running at time.

Right now, I'm listening to The Black Keys playing from iTunes, using Firefox with 9 tabs open, ripping a DVD to my external hard drive with MacTheRipper, and encoding other ripped DVDs to MKVs using HandBrake, all while using uTorrent to download ... ah ... stuff.

I've never had my Mac crash from running too many things at once.  The worst that'll happen is that any video file above 480p won't play smoothly while encoding video, which makes perfect sense.

Oh, and did I mention this is all on a 5-year-old MacBook Pro?

Video Editing,

Everybody says Macs are the best when it comes to video editing and Photoshop. I've had a better experience doing both on a PC. Again Macs are slower and harder to multitask, key things you need to have when video editing and photoshoping.

"Macs are slower?"  Nope, sorry.

"Harder to multitask?"  Again, nope.

The biggest reason why having a Mac in the video editing world is so important?  Interchangeability.

What if I'm cutting something in Avid on a Windows machine, and then it turns out the colorist wants to work in Apple's Final Cut Studio Color (which is not available on anything but OS X)?  This is a huge obstacle that is immensely difficult to work around.

What if I'm cutting something in Avid on a Mac, and the colorist wants to work in Final Cut Studio's Color?  Guess what, that exact same thing happened to me last semester.  We transferred it in a day.  You know what my post supervisor said to me?  "Thank fucking Christ you weren't working in Windows."

Plus, I've found Avid to run much better on OS X than Windows.

Speed,

Macs just by nature seem to be slow and I don't think they can be overclocked?

Yes, Macs can be overclocked, and I have no idea where you're getting this "Mac = slow" mentality.  I maintain that it's because you're used to working on Windows computers with better hardware than the Macs you've used.

Proprietary Everything,

With Macs you're forced to buy proprietary everything made by apple. The hardware, software, and even internet connection has to be proprietary and you pay a premium for all these that are way cheaper with PCs for the same performance.

  • You can install OS X on any computer with an Intel chipset.  You're not meant to, but you can do it.
  • What software has to be proprietary?  I don't have to use iTunes, or Safari, or Mail, or Final Cut, or Aperture, or any of Apple's applications if I don't want to - I can use Firefox, or Thunderbird, or Avid, or Photoshop, etc.
  • What the hell does "Internet connection has to be proprietary" mean?!  The only Apple aspect of my internet connection is my Apple-made computer and operating system.  My internet connection comes from Comcast, and my wireless router is Linksys, and I can either use a standard broadband cable or WiFi to connect.  How is that in any way proprietary?

Price,

Everything with apple costs at least twice as much for the equivalent of PCs.

You're right on the money there.  Apple products are way overpriced.

The iPhone,

The iPhone was the most overrated piece of crap. Steve Jobs said the iPhone is going to be way ahead of everything else out there but instead turned out to be 2 years outdated by the time it came out. Many phones had the same features an iPhone had 2 years before it came out. And you're forced to use AT&T for the phone service, buy far the worst and most expensive phone service provider out there. I do know that people can hack iPhones to work with different carriers.

I have an Android phone, so I can't comment on the iPhone.

However, in less than a month the iPhone 4 will be available from Verizon (without hacking), so your "AT&T Suxxorz" sentiment is moot.

iTunes

I never cared for the software, it's too busy and always pops up after download a music file, and I couldn't find a way to turn that off. It gets annoying. I like to view the files in a folder, with iTunes you have to view them in the software. I heard it will automatically tag your music files but that didn't work for me. I ended up uninstalling the program because of the stupid pop-up feature.

You can get rid of iTunes and use a wide variety of alternative software.  I have no idea what the "pop-up" feature you speak of is.  I don't mind iTunes, though, so I use it (for music only, I hate using it for video).

Also, I will state here that iTunes on Windows blows giant monkey chunks.  It wasn't designed for Windows, and it works like shit on it.

Quicktime,

Quicktime and it seems like every other software program made by Apple runs a lot more resource intensive than any other software made by a different company.

That's only on Windows (see my iTunes-on-Windows comment above - it applies to Quicktime as well).  Quicktime is very resource-light on a Mac, and it works very well for what it does.

I don't use it.  I use VLC.  Yes, on my Mac.

The drag and drop feature,

Their dragging drives into the Trash Bin to eject disks is really old fashioned and amateur. It makes it feel like a computer made for babies.

Command+delete = item goes to trash.

Right click+"Move to Trash" = item goes to trash.

Right click+"Eject Disk" = disk is ejected.

You don't have to drag-and-drop a damn thing if you don't want to.

But I thought you were all about the all-clicking-on-things, no-shortcuts GUI of Windows earlier?  Surely dragging-and-dropping is the kind of thing you want, right?  No?  Hmm...

Amateurish,

It feels like it is made for people who don't know how to use computers

Says the person who thinks Apple has a "proprietary" way to connect to the Internet that you have to use.

What are you thoughts on Apple products? I have not kept up to date with Apple so they might have changed a lot in the last few years and my complaints about the software might be my fault. I've used older Macs, I know their newer ones are a lot better than their older ones.

So what you're saying is, you don't like Macs because you used very outdated versions of them (going by your complaints, anyway), therefore they must still suck as hard today?  Interesting.

---

Anyway, what are my thoughts?

I like Apple laptops quite a bit.  iMacs are okay.  Mac Pros are immensely powerful desktops, and I want one really badly.

iPhone?  Don't care, I like my Droid, thanks.

iPad?  Don't care, I don't feel like I'd ever use it.

That's about it.  I'm not the "OMG Apple announced something new IWANTITNOW!!!!" Apple-fanboy guy - I like some of their products.  The ones I prefer to their competition's, I'll purchase.  The ones I don't, I won't.  Simple as that.

Mac computers are pretty important to me in my (future) profession, as it requires me to be proficient not only in cross-platform programs, but in OS X-exclusive programs as well.  If I couldn't use Final Cut, I'd lose out on, like, 50% of all the video editing/colorist jobs out there.

So I'll stick with my Mac.  But as I said, I do sneak into good old Windows on occasion...

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My (limited) experience of Apple products has not been good.

My mother-in-law has an iPod Touch. I offered to put some MP3s on it for her, thinking it would be a simple case of plugging it in to a USB port then dragging and dropping the files over.

But no, the iPod is not recognised as a USB mass storage device like a normal MP3 player. iTunes wouldn't allow me to do this either as it was synced to a different computer, I would have had to delete the tracks that were on the device already. I ended up having to install a piece of software called CopyTrans, and even then it required me to install a component of Quicktime to get it to work properly.

Talking of Quicktime, getting MOV files to play in MPC can be a pain sometimes. (But I dislike WMV just as much, so I'm neutral in that respect!)

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Agree with ChainsawAsh on just about everything.

I use a Mac because I am accustomed to them--my dad works exclusively with them in his capacity as systems director for a publishing company.  He knows all the ins and outs of their capabilities and is always up to date on their releases.  After some bad experiences with PC's, he made sure we only ever had Macs at home, and I've kept to that for myself ever since.

The capabilities of Firewire alone astound me and I'd never want to be without it.  Not only is it faster and more reliable than USB, functions like Target Disk Mode are immensely useful and make data transfer very easy.

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The Annoying Orange said:

http://www.internetservice.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/annoyingorange.jpg

Hey Apple! Hey! Hey! Hey Apple!

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The differences between Apple and PC towers is less then the differences between the towers and this generation of players/pads/cellphone/gaming devices.  Makes me very confused that people will spend money on a computing device which can't copy/paste.  All these new devices are loaded with DRM and hide behind stores which function as gate keepers that don't protect the customer, but do allow companies the ability to block stuff.  These companies want you to rent not own.  Right now it's the beginning with music and media (iTunoos/Netflic), soon it'll be bandwith and processing CPU cycles...

 

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Ziz said:

  If you're a graphics guru, you can't survive professionally without Apple products. 

As a graphics professional, I can say without reservation - that statement is just simply not the case anymore. 10 years ago - maybe, but most certainly not now.  I work solely on a high-end PC and most of the things I generate are gargantuan, super-complex, uber-high-res Photoshop documents that are headache-free.  I also orthorectify satellite photos for wall-sized presentations and trade-show booths (equally enormous files) and they flow smoothly as well.

Those sorts of designers vs secretaries arguments simply don't apply anymore.  In fact, I recently downed my Mac at home and went with a two-PC network.  I had been running a hybrid for several years, but the Mac was gathering dust (literally).

I don't dislike Apple, but their role in my personal computing world has been reduced to my personal phone\music provider.  I also have an iPad for business travel, but it's really just for work email and internet access - boarding pass check-in the night before a flight, schedules, that sort of thing.  Nothing that couldn't be handled just as easily with a laptop.

Apple\Jobs is wise to continue with the insanely egotistical "unveilings" every year because that sort of coolest personal entertainment device vibe is what they're going to survive with. 

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ChainsawAsh said:

"Macs are slower?" Nope, sorry.

"Harder to multitask?" Again, nope.

The biggest reason why having a Mac in the video editing world is so important? Interchangeability.

What if I'm cutting something in Avid on a Windows machine, and then it turns out the colorist wants to work in Apple's Final Cut Studio Color (which is not available on anything but OS X)? This is a huge obstacle that is immensely difficult to work around.

What if I'm cutting something in Avid on a Mac, and the colorist wants to work in Final Cut Studio's Color? Guess what, that exact same thing happened to me last semester. We transferred it in a day. You know what my post supervisor said to me? "Thank fucking Christ you weren't working in Windows."

Plus, I've found Avid to run much better on OS X than Windows."

I don't do video editing so I don't know what your are talking about. I heard that macs require a certain ISP.

I still don't like Macs just because I'm used to working on Windows and I'm used to their GUI. I still think Mac's GUI sucks. One thing is that I don't like how you can't maximize the programs to fit on the whole screen and when you click the "X" located at the top of the screen it really doesn't close it. It still is running. If my memory is correct you have to right click it to close it right? Like I said before, there's really no task bar, it's just a bunch of fancy logos for software they assume you use. Can you even customize that thing? Where do you find out what programs are running? Task manager? Do macs even have one of those? Where do I find it because I would really like to know?

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ChainsawAsh said:

"Macs are slower?" Nope, sorry.

"Harder to multitask?" Again, nope.

The biggest reason why having a Mac in the video editing world is so important? Interchangeability.

What if I'm cutting something in Avid on a Windows machine, and then it turns out the colorist wants to work in Apple's Final Cut Studio Color (which is not available on anything but OS X)? This is a huge obstacle that is immensely difficult to work around.

What if I'm cutting something in Avid on a Mac, and the colorist wants to work in Final Cut Studio's Color? Guess what, that exact same thing happened to me last semester. We transferred it in a day. You know what my post supervisor said to me? "Thank fucking Christ you weren't working in Windows."

Plus, I've found Avid to run much better on OS X than Windows."

I don't do video editing so I don't know what your are talking about. I heard that macs require a certain ISP.

I still don't like Macs just because I'm used to working on Windows and I'm used to their GUI. I still think Mac's GUI sucks. One thing is that I don't like how you can't maximize the programs to fit on the whole screen and when you click the "X" located at the top of the screen it really doesn't close it. It still is running. If my memory is correct you have to right click it to close it right? Like I said before, there's really no task bar, it's just a bunch of fancy logos for software they assume you use. Can you even customize that thing? Where do you find out what programs are running? Task manager? Do macs even have one of those? Where do I find it because I would really like to know?

Adywan doesn't like Macs either. I would like to hear your opinion on this Adywan? When you're doing high end video editing work like Adywan you have to go with a PC anyways, because I don't think even the most expensive Macs can handle that kind of work.

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Huh, for some reason it double posted, I can't remember now if I edited or double posted.

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I fully understand not liking the GUI.  I have no problem with that, it's an understandable, reasonable complaint.

However, to respond to your more specific complaints:

You can maximize programs to fill the screen - that's what the green "+" button is for.  I never use it 'cause I generally hate programs filling the whole screen unless there's good reason (like with Avid/Final Cut, or video games).

Yeah, the red X doesn't quit the program, it just closes the window.  I, personally, highly prefer this to the Windows version, where you can't close the window without quitting the program - you can only minimize it.

And to properly quit, you either click on the program context menu > "Quit ___" or - my personal choice - Command+Q.  (As I said before, keyboard shortcuts are the best thing ever, in any OS.)

there's really no task bar, it's just a bunch of fancy logos for software they assume you use. Can you even customize that thing? Where do you find out what programs are running? Task manager? Do macs even have one of those? Where do I find it because I would really like to know?

The Dock is 100% customizable.  And it's super fucking easy to customize, too.  You don't like seeing iTunes on your Dock when it isn't running?  Drag it out of the Dock, it's gone.  Want to put that new program you just installed onto the Dock?  Go to the Applications folder, find it, and drag the application into the Dock.

Want to rearrange?  Drag stuff around.  Want it to be bigger or smaller?  System Preferences > Dock.  Want it to not do the "magnify" thing when you hover over it?  System Preferences > Dock.

Want to know what programs are running?  They have a blue dot underneath/next to them in the Dock.  If it's a program you don't keep on the Dock, it will show up there when it starts running (with the blue dot), and will go away when you quit.

Task manager?  If you're asking for a "Force Quit" window, i.e. a Mac equivalent to Ctrl+Alt+Del ... well, there is a "Force Quit" window, and you bring it up with Command+Option+Esc.

A more advanced Task Manager?  Applications > Utilities > Activity Monitor.  You can even put it on your Dock if you want - I have mine at the top, just in case I need it.

When you're doing high end video editing work like Adywan you have to go with a PC anyways, because I don't think even the most expensive Macs can handle that kind of work.

That is absolutely ridiculous.  Of course Macs can handle "high end video editing."  That's my job (as in, not a "fan editing" hobby), so I think I would know if Macs can do it.

And guess what?  For more complex, "high-end" video/effects/CG work, I've found it to be much simpler to do on a Mac.

 

It seems to me that the majority of your complaints about Macs are unfounded, Windows-fanboy hearsay that have no basis in fact.  I admit, some of your complaints are valid, but I could find equally valid complaints about Windows without resorting to "I hate it because I hear it can't do ______," even though it can do ______ very easily.

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ChainsawAsh said:

"That is absolutely ridiculous. Of course Macs can handle "high end video editing." That's my job (as in, not a "fan editing" hobby), so I think I would know if Macs can do it."

I asked Adywan awhile ago why he prefers PCs over Macs and he told me that PCs have a lot more compatibility with add-ons that he uses for Adobe After Effects and I think he said they are not powerful enough to handle what he does and he can expand storage/memory/videocards on the fly etc. I will go and find that email, but I hope Adywan sees this and adds his opinion to all this because he's going to own you.

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Ghostbusters said:

ChainsawAsh said:

"That is absolutely ridiculous. Of course Macs can handle "high end video editing." That's my job (as in, not a "fan editing" hobby), so I think I would know if Macs can do it."

I asked Adywan awhile ago why he prefers PCs over Macs and he told me that PCs have a lot more compatibility with add-ons that he uses for Adobe After Effects and I think he said they are not powerful enough to handle what he does and he can expand storage/memory/videocards on the fly etc. I will go and find that email, but I hope Adywan sees this and adds his opinion to all this because he's going to own you.

I'm sure adywan has nothing better to do than worrying about "owning" someone about PC vs. Mac.

Also, you are allowed to use the forum quote function.