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HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray

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Originally posted by: TR47
HD DVD and/or Blu-ray will exist in the near future, if only for this one reason:
The movie companies will NOT hesitate to take advantage of an opportunity to sell you the same product all over again!


Only if they think there will be a significant monetary gain. At this point they don't want to risk spending all this money develooing HD-DVD only to have it go to hell.

Now, near future meaning what? I'm sure by 2006 or 2007 we should see HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray. 2005 is doubtful. The winner of the war will be whichever gives the most significent improvement, which is up for grabs still.

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Originally posted by: Hal 9000
DVD is good enough for me.

My TV isn't digital anyway. Commonfolk like me won't see a need to upgrade at all.


Nice new thread, bad_karma! I am in agreement with you and Hal. I don't feel a need to upgrade, even with added digital improvements, because it's only been about three years since I first got a DVD player. We don't need to have new formats replacing slightly older formats every few years, because that has the potential of flooding the market. But I think these new formats are going to remain fringe markets, at least for awhile longer, just based on trends in the past decade or two. The mini-disc had many advantages over CDs (like no skipping problems), and yet never took off. The same goes with laserdisc; multiple advantages, but somehow couldn't upset VHS. Maybe it's just that DVD and VHS formats are more consumer friendly than their higher-tech counterparts.
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HD-DVD definutly is my pick as of now. For many reasons. First of all the higher capacity of Blu-Ray is always touted. Blu-Ray has a maximum prerecord capacity of 54 gigabits while HD-DVD has only 30 gigabits. Thing is Blu-Ray discs use MPEG-2 compression. The same as SD-DVD uses. HD-DVD has already finalized MPEG-4 and VC-9 compression. With that a 30 gigabit HD-DVD can hold 30% more information then a 54 gigabit Blu-Ray. Yes HD-DVD will be out in America in 2005. It will be out at least 6 months ahead of Blu-Ray.Read here. It also has the advantage in cost. Blu-Ray has a radical new disc structure that requires new assembly lines in order to produce. HD-DVD has greater storage but the same disc structure as SD-DVD. With that HD-DVD will be 20% cheaper to produce then Blu-Ray. While not a technical advantage the formats name is also an advantage. Consumers know what DVD means and know what HD means. Consumers will see HD-DVD and know that means high definition movies on disc. The name Blu-Ray is oviously a reference to the blue lasers. Most people don't know anything about the difference between red and blue lasers. So someone will hear about Blu-Ray and just say huh and pass it up.
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From what I've read about the two formats, if one is to remain, as a niche product or otherwise, it'll be HD-DVD. I don't see Blu-Ray staying around too long.
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I remember buying my first DVD player at a cheap 1,300 bux. I also bought all the DVD's that were out at the time. I think there were like 12 of them. It was an expensive day. I have sense bought new versions of all those DVD's (There may be a few that haven't been reissued yet, BATMAN) and six DVD players. If I combine all my DVD players I have bought sense that first one and all the reissues I have it still doesn't equal 1,300 bux. Sad huh?

I'm not going to adapt so fast this time.

“You know, when you think about it, the Ewoks probably just crap over the sides of their tree-huts.”

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Apparently blu-ray will be around because the Sony PS3 will use that format for its games. This could lead to it being thought of as more of a proprietary disc format, while HD DVD will be used for commercially available films-this is what I foresee but who knows? I meant near future as in 3-5 years down the road, although the first players will be available to the rich late next year sometime. I've seen a few prototypes and the technology is pretty amazing, but you will need an HD TV to see the difference, and even HD TVs are ever-changing in their capabilities. I've decided to stay away from HD until more standards have been set and the FCC mandate goes into effect.
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To comment on the codecs, Blu-Ray will support MPEG-4 as well as VC-9 too. It also features encryption, something that HD-DVD will probably not have, thus making executives prefer it over HD-DVD.

As for release dates... Blu-Ray is already out in Japan. It will be in the US in either late 2005, or 2006, though players are annoucned for August of 2005. Don't expect to see HD-DVD titles out until 2006 at the earliest. And it will still be a number of years before they start becoming as afforable as DVD.

And enough of the crap about HD-DVD being so cheap to produce. The encoding process is completely different, regardless of the manufacturing process.

Don't underestimate people's stupidity. There will be plenty of announcements on Blu-Ray. No one knew was DVD was, but that didn't stop it, did it?

Personally, it will be quite some time until I invest in new player for these formats. I already have quite a bit put into my DVD collection. I'll get a few titles that would be worth it, such as Lawrence of Arabia, Star Wars, titles that would actually be an improvement. DVD is a spectacular format and I see no reason to dump it all for a new format that will soon be obsolete in another 5-10 years.

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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
Personally, it will be quite some time until I invest in new player for these formats. I already have quite a bit put into my DVD collection. I'll get a few titles that would be worth it, such as Lawrence of Arabia, Star Wars, titles that would actually be an improvement. DVD is a spectacular format and I see no reason to dump it all for a new format that will soon be obsolete in another 5-10 years.


Same here. I've gotten a majority of the movies that I really want on DVD, and I'm not about to throw them out the window.

Are you a Lawrence of Arabia fan, bad_karma?
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Not really. I just think it's the greatest film ever made.

It really is a spectacular film, and I'm sure I love it also because I'm half Arab (my father was born and raised in Lebanon). The acting is fantastic (O'Toole is a marvelous actor) the battle scenes are exciting, and every frame looks like it's a painting. Not to mention the amazing picture quality and color rendition that comes from 70mm filmstock. 70mm blows everything else out of the water. Not even HD can come close to it.

Interestlingly enough, even though it's almost 4 hours long, there's not a single female speaking role.

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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
Not really. I just think it's the greatest film ever made.

It really is a spectacular film, and I'm sure I love it also because I'm half Arab (my father was born and raised in Lebanon). The acting is fantastic (O'Toole is a marvelous actor) the battle scenes are exciting, and every frame looks like it's a painting. Not to mention the amazing picture quality and color rendition that comes from 70mm filmstock. 70mm blows everything else out of the water. Not even HD can come close to it.

Interestlingly enough, even though it's almost 4 hours long, there's not a single female speaking role.


You're right, now that I think about it. Another movie lacking female speaking roles is Gettysburg. It's 4 hours 14 minutes long and there's only one line by a female extra ('I thought the war was in Virginia').

I just asked because I think Lawrence of Arabia is an amazing film. Everything about it is epic and spectacular and Peter O'Toole was definitely robbed of an Oscar for his performance (if the Academy has any sense of fairness they'll give him a Best Supporting Actor award for Troy). I would say it definitely has a claim as the greatest film ever made.

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I have always loved Lawrence of Arabia. The shear fact that it was even made is impressive considering the scope of the film.

But back to the future of DVD......

“You know, when you think about it, the Ewoks probably just crap over the sides of their tree-huts.”

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DVD has a large and successful future ahead of it. It will be a long time before anything dislodges it the way VHS was dislodged.

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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
To comment on the codecs, Blu-Ray will support MPEG-4 as well as VC-9 too. It also features encryption, something that HD-DVD will probably not have, thus making executives prefer it over HD-DVD.

As for release dates... Blu-Ray is already out in Japan. It will be in the US in either late 2005, or 2006, though players are annoucned for August of 2005. Don't expect to see HD-DVD titles out until 2006 at the earliest. And it will still be a number of years before they start becoming as afforable as DVD.

And enough of the crap about HD-DVD being so cheap to produce. The encoding process is completely different, regardless of the manufacturing process.

Don't underestimate people's stupidity. There will be plenty of announcements on Blu-Ray. No one knew was DVD was, but that didn't stop it, did it?

Personally, it will be quite some time until I invest in new player for these formats. I already have quite a bit put into my DVD collection. I'll get a few titles that would be worth it, such as Lawrence of Arabia, Star Wars, titles that would actually be an improvement. DVD is a spectacular format and I see no reason to dump it all for a new format that will soon be obsolete in another 5-10 years.


The Blu-Ray association is considering better codecs but as of now Blu-Ray only has MPEG-2 as the standard. Read the article link HD-DVD will have prerecorded media before Blu-Ray. When Sony officially announces Blu-Ray will use a better codec I will probably change my mind. As of now I am all for HD-DVD.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
To comment on the codecs, Blu-Ray will support MPEG-4 as well as VC-9 too. It also features encryption, something that HD-DVD will probably not have, thus making executives prefer it over HD-DVD.

As for release dates... Blu-Ray is already out in Japan. It will be in the US in either late 2005, or 2006, though players are annoucned for August of 2005. Don't expect to see HD-DVD titles out until 2006 at the earliest. And it will still be a number of years before they start becoming as afforable as DVD.

And enough of the crap about HD-DVD being so cheap to produce. The encoding process is completely different, regardless of the manufacturing process.

Don't underestimate people's stupidity. There will be plenty of announcements on Blu-Ray. No one knew was DVD was, but that didn't stop it, did it?

Personally, it will be quite some time until I invest in new player for these formats. I already have quite a bit put into my DVD collection. I'll get a few titles that would be worth it, such as Lawrence of Arabia, Star Wars, titles that would actually be an improvement. DVD is a spectacular format and I see no reason to dump it all for a new format that will soon be obsolete in another 5-10 years.


The Blu-Ray association is considering better codecs but as of now Blu-Ray only has MPEG-2 as the standard. Read the article link HD-DVD will have prerecorded media before Blu-Ray. When Sony officially announces Blu-Ray will use a better codec I will probably change my mind. As of now I am all for HD-DVD.


Did you read your own article? It clearly states that Blu-Ray is already out in Japan. It also says that HD-DVD will be released in 2005.... but in Japan. And it could be delayed too baring problems.

This article discusses that Blu-Ray will probably have MPEG-4 abd VC-9 too. But even if it doesn't, it shouldn't be a discouraging factor. MPEG-2 can produce just as good as results as MPEG-4.

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HD-DVD will be out in early 2005 in Japan and Late 2005 in America. Thats a six month head start to Blu-Ray. Also MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 are not video standards just compression standards. MPEG-1 can produce high definition picture is given enough bit rate. MPEG-4 can hold 6x the picture quality at only twice the bit rate. 3x as much information into the space. With that the lower capacity HD-DVD holds 30% more information. Also HD-DVD has already finalized MPEG-4 and VC-9 into the spec. The motion to adopt a better codec was denyed by the Blu-Ray group last year. They will be voting again on the issue earlier next month. With way it will go don't know. As of now with HD-DVD officially backing these better codecs and Blu-Ray currently not I am all for HD-DVD.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
HD-DVD will be out in early 2005 in Japan and Late 2005 in America. Thats a six month head start to Blu-Ray.
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It's already behind Blu-Ray. Can't you read? I found no mention of HD-DVD's release in the the states. In fact, it said no mention of what part of 2005 it was being released in Japan.

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MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 are not video standards just compression standards.


What's your point?

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MPEG-4 can hold 6x the picture quality at only twice the bit rate. 3x as much information into the space. With that the lower capacity HD-DVD holds 30% more information.


It depends entirely upon the compressionist. If you have good people, you can good equal results with either codec.

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As of now with HD-DVD officially backing these better codecs and Blu-Ray currently not I am all for HD-DVD.


Have fun. Are you planning on replacing your entire DVD collection?


And you do all realize that simply because the resolution is higher it doesn't necessarily make it better. Take D-VHS' T2 for example. It is no better than the DVD version. It's actually worse because all the resolution does is expose more print flaws.

Don't look for older movies on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray... they will most likely look worse.

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D-VHS as good as DVD what are you smoking. I have compared D-VHS and DVD of Independence Day. There is no comparison. The D-VHS is so so so much better. I was absolutly blown away by D-VHS. Unfortunitly I don't own a D-VCR myself because lets face it. Higher quality or not its still a tape. I have invested alot in replacing tapes with discs and will not go backwards no matter how good it looks. And it looks fucking amazing. Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray promise resolution higher then D-VHS and with all the convience a the disc format offers. Read this article HD-DVD will be out in America before the ball drops for 2006. Blu-Ray will not. Each format has one format that has commited to it. Blu-Ray has Columbia Tristar. HD-DVD has Poly Cannon (Japanese studio). Though Warner has not yet commited Warner owns stocks in current DVD technolgy which HD-DVD is an extension of. If HD-DVD wins Warner makes alot of money. So if you don't think Warner will release titles on HD-DVD soon I don't know what your smoking. New Line is also a Time Warner studio. Both Sony and Warner are trying to buy MGM and as of now Warner has the better offer. Disney, Universal, Fox, and Artisan all appear to be showing more intrest in HD-DVD then Blu-Ray at the momment as well. Disney voted for HD-DVD in the forum and basically whichever format Disney supports will be the format that most familys will support.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
D-VHS as good as DVD what are you smoking. I have compared D-VHS and DVD of Independence Day. There is no comparison. The D-VHS is so so so much better. I was absolutly blown away by D-VHS. Unfortunitly I don't own a D-VCR myself because lets face it. Higher quality or not its still a tape. I have invested alot in replacing tapes with discs and will not go backwards no matter how good it looks. And it looks fucking amazing. Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray promise resolution higher then D-VHS and with all the convience a the disc format offers. Read this article HD-DVD will be out in America before the ball drops for 2006. Blu-Ray will not. Each format has one format that has commited to it. Blu-Ray has Columbia Tristar. HD-DVD has Poly Cannon (Japanese studio). Though Warner has not yet commited Warner owns stocks in current DVD technolgy which HD-DVD is an extension of. If HD-DVD wins Warner makes alot of money. So if you don't think Warner will release titles on HD-DVD soon I don't know what your smoking. New Line is also a Time Warner studio. Both Sony and Warner are trying to buy MGM and as of now Warner has the better offer. Disney, Universal, Fox, and Artisan all appear to be showing more intrest in HD-DVD then Blu-Ray at the momment as well. Disney voted for HD-DVD in the forum and basically whichever format Disney supports will be the format that most familys will support.


Did I saw D-VHS was as good as DVD? No, I didn't. Please take the time to read before you condemn.

That site you link to requires a membership but I'll take your word on it. Blu-Ray players are announced for US release by August of 2005, and early 2006 at the latest. It's still before HD-DVD.

So far they're coming out with a whopping 8 (!) titles for HD-DVD.

HD-DVD is not an "extension" of DVD. It's something that's different. Are you not getting that?

And where are you getting all this information that all these studios are backing it (what is this forum)? They have no reason to all jump on the bandwagon. Can you tell me what is so appealing about HD-DVD that will make everyone want to rush out and buy them? I know people who are just now getting DVD players. It's going to take a lot to get these people to buy HD-DVDs.

Just to let you know, BD-ROMs are being created by the 10 powerful consumer electronics companies, including Sony, Philips, Hitachi, Sharp and Samsung. (Here.)

Also, HD-DVD is currently non-recordable. Blu-Ray is. That for many people is a big plus.

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That article is 7 months old. Mine is less then one month old. Membership is free so I suggest getting a membership to video business. They have alot of great articles. This article states just about everything I have been saying that HD-DVD will be out in America in 2005. HD-DVD will be recordable too. They estimate the first HD-DVD recorder will be out six months ahead of the first player. Thats a mid 2006 release date. Like I said Warner will release titles in HD-DVD because if HD-DVD wins this war Warner will make alot of money. HD-DVD has eight titles as of now. No doubt that titles will be slow at first but Toshiba apparently has no doubts that they will get more support in time for its launch.
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Who cares about the age of the article? The fact is that Blu-Ray has a lot more big company support than HD-DVD.

And the codecs don't matter so much because:
A) Codecs can be quite easily changed
B) Testers have found Blu-Ray has better PQ than HD-DVD

And even though MPEG-4 is fine, VC-9 has a lot of problems with its algorithms, downconversion, etc, that needs to be fixed before it's released.

And as for recent articles, here you go. Oh, and apparantly there are 13 big companies behind Blu-Ray. "No U.S. studio has committed to the HD DVD format yet" (From your article)

If HD-DVD they don't even have a player out at all I don't see how they can expect to serve both Japan and America by 2005. Maybe Japan, but America is stretching it. Blu-Ray already has players released in Japan.

Personally I'll have to sit out the buying of either system before one takes hold. And even then, as I've said, I doubt I'll purchase more than a dozen or so title. Really no use in it.


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Current Blu-Ray recorders are only recorders. Prerecorded Blu-Ray discs will not play on them. Toshiba seems confident that they can get HD-DVD released in Japan in the first half of 2005 and America in the second half. Also yeah codecs can be changed. The point is HD-DVD has already finalized the better codecs into the spec. Blu-Ray has not. If its officially announced that Blu-Ray will definutly use the better codecs I will change my mind on this issue. If Blu-Ray sticks with MPEG-2 it will suck. HD-DVD will be better in every way. Blu-Ray will have nothing to go on and will have no chance of winning. If Blu-Ray does adopt a better codec it would then be the better format but still might loose like Beta since HD-DVD seems much more of a consumer friendly standard.
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Why will Blu-Ray suck with MPEG-2? Tests have shown that there is no drop in picture quality, and there are problems with the codecs HD-DVD is using.

This isn't a one-track thing.

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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
Why will Blu-Ray suck with MPEG-2? Tests have shown that there is no drop in picture quality, and there are problems with the codecs HD-DVD is using.

This isn't a one-track thing.


Like I said HD-DVD with MPEG-4 holds more information then Blu-Ray with MPEG-2. Both formats will include full 1080p quality. I don't think either will look better. I do think HD-DVD will have better sound. The DVD forum is planning lossless codecs for HD-DVD. I have heard nothing of Sony doing that for Blu-Ray. If you have heard DVD-A you will know how much better it is to any movie soundtrack on DVD. HD-DVD promises that quality for movies. Blu-Ray is working on the next generation of current DVD sound formats. It will sound better then current DVD but HD-DVD will have the audio advantage.
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And look how far DVD-A has gone.

Both formats are using DD and DTS mainly for their tracks.

Another point to make is that HD-DVD has no encryption yet. It won't go anywhere without it.

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