Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 532

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Not in my usage it doesn’t.

How do you use it then?

I guess that’s kind of a bad example on my part because it’s a rare word for me to use. I don’t really like the sound of it. On rare occasions, I use it to describe obnoxious people that can’t help but vocalize how gutless they are.

But don’t you see how “gutless” feeds into that stereotype?

Kind of, but I don’t think it matters because the words are separated from the genders in my mind. To quote a brilliant man, “Calling someone a pussy isn’t the same as saying ‘Don’t be such a woman.’ Calling somebody a dick isn’t the same as saying ‘Don’t be such a man.’” No one in this day and age with a shred of decency or intelligence believes that women are inherently gutless. I actually just realized why I hate all this language policing. It’s basically because we, and by we I mean people that aren’t complete morons and aren’t complete and total piles of shit, have to watch what we say because stupid people believe stereotypes. I hate stupid people more than anything on earth, and to me, judging people based on their color or gender is essentially the stupidest, most ignorant thing that a person can do. I don’t do that because I’m not stupid enough to believe there’s merit to racism or sexism, so why should I change up my arbitrarily-deemed-offensive insults because other people are stupid enough to believe a stereotype that I myself don’t believe and everyone that knows me knows I don’t believe?

Jeebus said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I guess my hangup is that there is one specific gendered insult that is supposed to be far, far worse than any other, even other female-gendered insults, and is unacceptable in any context for very vague reasons of nondescript power dynamics and vague references to “history”. I know about the historical oppression of women, but why this word rather than any other?

I’m pretty sure it’s the same reason that “fuck” is a lot worse than “shit”.

Perhaps to a soccer mom it is, but like yhwx said, they’re kind of on par with each other. I’d say those two are considered worse because of what they literally mean, but then that brings up the hypocrisy of people considering “crap” worse than “shit” so, like I said, the only consistent way to handle this stuff is to either say they’re all okay, or they all aren’t. OR even better, you take it on a case by case basis. Did the person saying it use it in a way that made him asshole? If no, then move on. If yes, then, well, move on but remember that that guy is an asshole.

You’re looking at it as if it’s cut and dry. Gendered insults like pussy might seem like they’re harmless ultimately harmless, like you don’t really mean it in that way and that should be obvious. But the truth is that when a culture has an insult that’s irrevocably to a stereotype, whether you believe that stereotype or not, using the insult promotes it. It’s not like if you hear the word pussy enough you will suddenly come to the conclusion that women are gutless. It’s more subversive than that. It’s the kind of thing that feeds unconscious biases. Same thing with the other f-word and etc.

Fuck is definitely worse than shit. Which gets you an R-rating?

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Won’t find me disagreeing with any of this.

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

Here we go again!

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

I’d be a lot happier if everyone kept their clothes on since most people, male or female, are quite unpleasant looking without garments, but there is no reason for male toplessness to be considered less “offensive” than female toplessness.

Men’s and women’s bodies are different.

If even if you see no reason, you know that society considers female toplessness to be nudity while male toplessness isn’t.

It’s all just outmoded puritanical bullshit.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

I’d be a lot happier if everyone kept their clothes on since most people, male or female, are quite unpleasant looking without garments, but there is no reason for male toplessness to be considered less “offensive” than female toplessness.

Men’s and women’s bodies are different.

Yes, but what’s the difference between a male nipple and a female nipple?

I’ll you what, I’ll post a pic of male nipple and you post a pic of a female nipple. Lets see if the mods treat it the same.

If a woman has breasts more like a typical man, should that be censored? What if a man had large breasts? This distinction is most arbitrary.

male breasts ≠ female breasts

If even if you see no reason, you know that society considers female toplessness to be nudity while male toplessness isn’t.

We know—that’s what we’re duscussing, Ric.

*sigh*

ray_afraid said:

What about flat chested women? What about men who need a manssiere?

Warbler said:

male breasts ≠ female breasts

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Not in my usage it doesn’t.

How do you use it then?

I guess that’s kind of a bad example on my part because it’s a rare word for me to use. I don’t really like the sound of it. On rare occasions, I use it to describe obnoxious people that can’t help but vocalize how gutless they are.

But don’t you see how “gutless” feeds into that stereotype?

Kind of, but I don’t think it matters because the words are separated from the genders in my mind. To quote a brilliant man, “Calling someone a pussy isn’t the same as saying ‘Don’t be such a woman.’ Calling somebody a dick isn’t the same as saying ‘Don’t be such a man.’” No one in this day and age with a shred of decency or intelligence believes that women are inherently gutless. I actually just realized why I hate all this language policing. It’s basically because we, and by we I mean people that aren’t complete morons and aren’t complete and total piles of shit, have to watch what we say because stupid people believe stereotypes. I hate stupid people more than anything on earth, and to me, judging people based on their color or gender is essentially the stupidest, most ignorant thing that a person can do. I don’t do that because I’m not stupid enough to believe there’s merit to racism or sexism, so why should I change up my arbitrarily-deemed-offensive insults because other people are stupid enough to believe a stereotype that I myself don’t believe and everyone that knows me knows I don’t believe?

Jeebus said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I guess my hangup is that there is one specific gendered insult that is supposed to be far, far worse than any other, even other female-gendered insults, and is unacceptable in any context for very vague reasons of nondescript power dynamics and vague references to “history”. I know about the historical oppression of women, but why this word rather than any other?

I’m pretty sure it’s the same reason that “fuck” is a lot worse than “shit”.

Perhaps to a soccer mom it is, but like yhwx said, they’re kind of on par with each other. I’d say those two are considered worse because of what they literally mean, but then that brings up the hypocrisy of people considering “crap” worse than “shit” so, like I said, the only consistent way to handle this stuff is to either say they’re all okay, or they all aren’t. OR even better, you take it on a case by case basis. Did the person saying it use it in a way that made him asshole? If no, then move on. If yes, then, well, move on but remember that that guy is an asshole.

You’re looking at it as if it’s cut and dry. Gendered insults like pussy might seem like they’re harmless ultimately harmless, like you don’t really mean it in that way and that should be obvious. But the truth is that when a culture has an insult that’s irrevocably to a stereotype, whether you believe that stereotype or not, using the insult promotes it. It’s not like if you hear the word pussy enough you will suddenly come to the conclusion that women are gutless. It’s more subversive than that. It’s the kind of thing that feeds unconscious biases. Same thing with the other f-word and etc.

I guess I just don’t assign as much importance to individual words as you, or larger society for that matter. Interestingly enough, I actually gave y’all my thoughts on the so-called other f-word earlier, and no one cared! Why’s that?

I must have missed that.

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

I’d be a lot happier if everyone kept their clothes on since most people, male or female, are quite unpleasant looking without garments, but there is no reason for male toplessness to be considered less “offensive” than female toplessness.

Men’s and women’s bodies are different.

If even if you see no reason, you know that society considers female toplessness to be nudity while male toplessness isn’t.

I think my past comments have revealed that I’m not too concerned with arbitrary societal considerations like which gender’s insults are worse or which gender’s chest is more frightening. Perhaps it’s because I was raised in a big family in a tiny house with no privacy, but nudity regardless of gender is just something that I grew up not being scared of and I don’t see much of a problem with it in designated spaces like in a home or at the beach or a pool or the locker room. Like I said, I don’t like it when people aren’t fully clothed because most people look rather unpleasant, but I don’t like pointless double standards. It’s nothing you haven’t seen before anyway so just either ignore it or look away if it’s that disturbing.

So you wouldn’t have any problem with your female family members going topless at public pool or non-nude beach?

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

I’d be a lot happier if everyone kept their clothes on since most people, male or female, are quite unpleasant looking without garments, but there is no reason for male toplessness to be considered less “offensive” than female toplessness.

Men’s and women’s bodies are different.

Yes, but what’s the difference between a male nipple and a female nipple?

I’ll you what, I’ll post a pic of male nipple and you post a pic of a female nipple. Lets see if the mods treat it the same.

Yeah, I know. I just think that’s wrong.

It is that way society has worked for years and years.

If a woman has breasts more like a typical man, should that be censored? What if a man had large breasts? This distinction is most arbitrary.

male breasts ≠ female breasts

But why‽

Because they are.

If even if you see no reason, you know that society considers female toplessness to be nudity while male toplessness isn’t.

We know—that’s what we’re duscussing, Ric.

*sigh*

Huh?

*sigh*

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

I’d be a lot happier if everyone kept their clothes on since most people, male or female, are quite unpleasant looking without garments, but there is no reason for male toplessness to be considered less “offensive” than female toplessness.

Men’s and women’s bodies are different.

Yes, but what’s the difference between a male nipple and a female nipple?

I’ll you what, I’ll post a pic of male nipple and you post a pic of a female nipple. Lets see if the mods treat it the same.

Yeah, I know. I just think that’s wrong.

It is that way society has worked for years and years.

Not a good argument. Living in caves was the way that society worked for years and years, but we decided to move out and make civilization.

Yes, but in all that time we still haven’t moved away from treating the male nipple differently than the female nipple.

If a woman has breasts more like a typical man, should that be censored? What if a man had large breasts? This distinction is most arbitrary.

male breasts ≠ female breasts

But why‽

Because they are.

Sure, they’re different, but why should they be treated differently?

Because they’re different.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

I’d be a lot happier if everyone kept their clothes on since most people, male or female, are quite unpleasant looking without garments, but there is no reason for male toplessness to be considered less “offensive” than female toplessness.

Men’s and women’s bodies are different.

Yes, but what’s the difference between a male nipple and a female nipple?

I’ll you what, I’ll post a pic of male nipple and you post a pic of a female nipple. Lets see if the mods treat it the same.

Yeah, I know. I just think that’s wrong.

It is that way society has worked for years and years.

Not a good argument. Living in caves was the way that society worked for years and years, but we decided to move out and make civilization.

Yes, but in all that time we still haven’t moved away from treating the male nipple differently than the female nipple.

Still a bad argument.

Just because we don’t see or understand the reason, doesn’t mean there isn’t a good reason. Humans don’t know everything about the way the universe works. Should we fix and change everything we don’t see a reason for?

If a woman has breasts more like a typical man, should that be censored? What if a man had large breasts? This distinction is most arbitrary.

male breasts ≠ female breasts

But why‽

Because they are.

Sure, they’re different, but why should they be treated differently?

Because they’re different.

This is quite circular thinking.

Things that are the same get treated the same, things that are different get treated differently from each other.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The rating system is awful and arbitrary, who cares what words they don’t like? Actually, the rating system legitimately is sexist. Exposed breasts of a woman will get you an R these days while the exposed chest of a man wouldn’t even push it to PG.

Have you visited a public pool or a non-nude beach? Have you noticed at those places men are topless but women are not? Men’s and Women’s bodies are different. A man topless is not nude. A woman topless is nude.

I’d be a lot happier if everyone kept their clothes on since most people, male or female, are quite unpleasant looking without garments, but there is no reason for male toplessness to be considered less “offensive” than female toplessness.

Men’s and women’s bodies are different.

Yes, but what’s the difference between a male nipple and a female nipple?

I’ll you what, I’ll post a pic of male nipple and you post a pic of a female nipple. Lets see if the mods treat it the same.

Yeah, I know. I just think that’s wrong.

It is that way society has worked for years and years.

Not a good argument. Living in caves was the way that society worked for years and years, but we decided to move out and make civilization.

Yes, but in all that time we still haven’t moved away from treating the male nipple differently than the female nipple.

Still a bad argument.

If a woman has breasts more like a typical man, should that be censored? What if a man had large breasts? This distinction is most arbitrary.

male breasts ≠ female breasts

But why‽

Because they are.

Sure, they’re different, but why should they be treated differently?

Because they’re different.

This is quite circular thinking.

Quoth Jack Black’s character from The Cable Guy, “Yahtzee!”

There is always this thought that just because something is done the same way it’s always been done, it should be done differently. In this case, I don’t see why anything should change. What’s the benefit? The effort and cultural shock that would result is far more work than benefit. A lot of these progressive ideas for men and women seem to be change for the sake of change rather than any real benefit for anybody.

Handman said:

There is always this thought that just because something is done the same way it’s always been done, it should be done differently. In this case, I don’t see why anything should change. What’s the benefit? The effort and cultural shock that would result is far more work than benefit.

truth.