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“you’re white”
“you’re male”
“you’re privileged”
“you’re part of the problem”
“you won’t admit to being part of the problem”
just who has been making “many accusations”?
Aren’t you white?
Aren’t you male?
Yes, but you guys meant them as insults.
Not at all. Not even a little bit.
If yes to either (or both!) then yes you’re privileged.
These guys are privileged:
As I said before you can be the benefit of racial privilege and still have no other privileges (for example, many mentally ill people end up homeless through institutional disadvantages). Just because they’re homeless doesn’t mean they aren’t the beneficiaries of white privilege (how people treat them vs. black homeless). Whether that’s to an extent that’s even worth discussing right now is a different debate, and really we’re getting away from the point of it any way.
The sooner people in general can accept that they may have blindspots the better. I don’t know if it’s culture or human nature or a combination of both but people (in particular white men) don’t seem to either want to admit to being part of a problem or acknowledging a problem that doesn’t affect them and that they can’t see in their daily life. Basically, people don’t like being wrong. (I can sympathize.)
The truth is, if you’re a white man (as I am), you don’t experience institutional racism/sexism. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You can either accept this fact and look outside of your own bubble for evidence as to where and how and why and to what extent, or you can retreat back and proclaim that white privilege can’t possibly exist and that anyone complaining about problems that you don’t personally experience are just making things up.
If you want to be more understanding of the world around you and more empathetic towards your fellow humans, you can seek out the information. Otherwise, you can continue about your business - it won’t affect you any, obviously, but just know that to some extent you will be part of the problem.
Do you always have to be so self-righteous? Condemning a group for being awful and that they have no problems won’t win any of their suppport, this is partly why the Clinton campaign did not do as well as it should have. Instead of saying “You’re evil” or whatever, provide examples of what is wrong, like Catbus did, and what we can do to solve it. It would be a lot less frustrating and a lot more productive.
This is the kind of shit that makes it impossible to reach a point of understanding.
I asked for examples. Fuck off.
This is the kind of shit that makes it impossible to reach a point of understanding.
Being belligerent isn’t exactly the most inviting behavior for a reasoned discussion.
You’re only serving to prove my thesis that white dudes retreat back to their bubbles and overreact when their views are challenged.
But you haven’t challenged anything. I asked for more and you retreated. You did nothing but show condescending behavior, which rightly pissed me off. Nothing you have said is substantial in any way other than to put yourself on a pedestal.
I have not called you out. I was not talking about you specifically or really about anyone specifically here. I was speaking generally, though this tends to be the issue. It is not hard to parse generalized statements. That’s why the phrase “not all men” is such an eye roller. Though the fact that you responded in the way you did does tell me I hit a nerve.
I have not used any of the words you claim I did. Nowhere did I call anyone “evil,” despite what your quotation marks would suggest. Nowhere did I “condemn a group for being awful.” Nowhere did I call anyone an asshole (though your behavior is testing my patience in that regard). Nowhere did I say people like you are the problem (just that you can be a part of it to an extent if you aren’t willing to listen).
This goes back to why I shut down before with Warbler and mfm. If you guys are going to twist my words and make me into some sort of self righteous justice warrior condemning all the white men in the thread for being evil, I don’t know how I can reason with you. I don’t try to be condescending but it’s hard not to when you’re acting like children. If you can’t actually interact with the actual words I’m using, then I don’t entirely believe we’re on the same level to have an intelligent discussion.
Again, I don’t want to be condescending, but please read the post I made that set you off again:
The sooner people in general can accept that they may have blindspots the better. I don’t know if it’s culture or human nature or a combination of both but people (in particular white men) don’t seem to either want to admit to being part of a problem or acknowledging a problem that doesn’t affect them and that they can’t see in their daily life. Basically, people don’t like being wrong. (I can sympathize.)
The truth is, if you’re a white man (as I am), you don’t experience institutional racism/sexism. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You can either accept this fact and look outside of your own bubble for evidence as to where and how and why and to what extent, or you can retreat back and proclaim that white privilege can’t possibly exist and that anyone complaining about problems that you don’t personally experience are just making things up.
If you want to be more understanding of the world around you and more empathetic towards your fellow humans, you can seek out the information. Otherwise, you can continue about your business - it won’t affect you any, obviously, but just know that to some extent you will be part of the problem.
If this posts sounds patronizing then I apologize, my aim was more to be clinical. I’m not attacking you or anyone else personally, in fact right off the bat I put the blame on culture and/or human nature. People don’t like being wrong. I’m the same way. When people have their worldview challenged, they bristle and retreat. I was the same way at first. All my point ever was in that post was to say the next step is as simple as being able to listen to views that challenge your own, and investigate experiences that differ from your own. It’s so easy to find examples online. So easy. I can sit here and google and show you all of them. But that’s not going to make a difference if you’re not willing to listen (and let me be clear, your attitude thus far tells me you clearly are not). If you’re actually interested in finding examples, you can seek them out yourself. If not, feel free to go about your business, as I said.
This is what I was asking for in my initial post, further explanation, and I’m glad you took the time to do so. I didn’t mean to be so abrasive but when I was given a requote it just set me off. So, sorry about that. I don’t wish to continue to fight about it and hope we can find some common ground in the future.
I appreciate the change of tone, I really do. I wasn’t trying to be dicky with the requote but it just frustrates me when others read into things that aren’t there, makes it hard to properly engage (and I should say I’m as guilty of it as anyone).
You mean like when people read “I deny all history of slavery, jim crow, discrimination and racism”, into the words “color blind”?
I think you’re misunderstanding, which is fair because that’s a complex and nuanced topic. The concept of “color blind” isn’t so much a bad thing as it is a not good thing. Being color blind isn’t denying racial history, but it tends to imply casting it aside. I understand why people think color blindness is a righteous goal (and maybe someday it will be), but the problem is we aren’t far enough removed from the effects of racism and racial history to not pay attention to race.
