I have a question for Christian users here. What exactly do you find inspirational about Jesus Christ? I find that a lot of Christians see him as a role model as well as a god and I’m curious about specifics.
The Person in Question
His willingness to go against traditionalist, legalistic religion has a large part to do with it.
His willingness to go against traditionalist, legalistic religion has a large part to do with it.
Which is especially ironic and amusing given the state of His church.
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His willingness to go against traditionalist, legalistic religion has a large part to do with it.
Which is especially ironic and amusing given the state of His church.
I like to believe liberal and progressive Christians are doing a fine job rectifying the damage done, but it’s an uphill battle.
My parents went to Ireland recently, and they said they learned that the whole Catholic vs. Protestant divisiveness over there is not actually about faith at all, but is simply a culture war. They also were told that basically anyone who isn’t Catholic is a “Protestant”, even if they are atheist or Muslim. Doctrinal disagreements have nothing to do with it.
I feel that many people who proclaim themselves as Christians just take the label as though passed through the family, or else are a part of the culture but pay no mind to actually what it means to follow Christ. As though being a Christian is merely fire insurance.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
being a Christian is merely fire insurance.
Sadly it seems that this is exactly how most “Christians” see their “faith.” I have multiple friends who are Catholic Christians because their parents are, and they go through all the Church ceremony and everything, but then they spend more time wacking off than they do imitating Christ’s love.
I’m not that much better, but I’ve been trying to be closer in faith recently.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
.
.
The “fire insurance” is the only reason to dedicate your life to Christ. You may say there are little benefits, but if you weren’t going to roast in hell there’d be no reason to suffer through church, evangelizing, praying, and all that. Life’s too short.
Dek Rollins said:
they spend more time wacking off than they do imitating Christ’s love.
The reason they do that is because it’s a natural urge and desire of human beings (which God supposedly created). It’s especially a very natural part of growing up and developing. Encouraging people, and especially youth, to repress themselves and be ashamed of themselves for something that’s biologically ingrained into them is one of Christianity’s biggest faults today.
The Person in Question
My parents went to Ireland recently, and they said they learned that the whole Catholic vs. Protestant divisiveness over there is not actually about faith at all, but is simply a culture war.
Not true. There is a cultural, social and historical dimension, sure. But this is also a question of faith. And the “war” is not only a culture one. There were lot of innocent deaths in both camps, killed by bombs, by the army or by the police. Just listen to U2’s “Sunday bloody sunday”.
They also were told that basically anyone who isn’t Catholic is a “Protestant”, even if they are atheist or Muslim. Doctrinal disagreements have nothing to do with it.
Not true at all. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
I feel that many people who proclaim themselves as Christians just take the label as though passed through the family.
By propagating here the mistakes your parents told you about Ireland, that’s exactly what you’re doing too: taking the label as though passed through the family.
Sounds like he struck a nerve.
The Person in Question
Sounds like he struck a nerve.
Sounds that he talks about a long, complicated and sensible story that he obviously doesn’t know, with some general caricatures and huge mistakes, just because his parents told him.
I’m sure he’s wrong on some levels, but the animosity in Northern Ireland definitely stems more from culture and identity than faith. As Sam Harris said, they aren’t fighting over the transubstantiation of the Eucharist.
The Person in Question
moviefreakedmind said:
the animosity in Northern Ireland definitely stems more from culture and identity than faith.
OK.
JEDIT: Note that if you take into account the historical beginning of the conflict (Irish Confederate Wars and Williamite War In the 17th century) - I guess that it is what chyron summarizes by " the whole Catholic vs. Protestant divisiveness over there", there was undoubtedly an important religious dimension.
If you speak only about “the Troubles” (after 1960), then OK, this is a segregation problem based on ethnical and sectarian criteria more than a question of faith.
Protestant divisiveness over there is not actually about faith at all
Not OK
PS: thank you for making the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
The “fire insurance” is the only reason to dedicate your life to Christ. You may say there are little benefits, but if you weren’t going to roast in hell there’d be no reason to suffer through church, evangelizing, praying, and all that. Life’s too short.
I feel like this is kind of a glass half empty or half full thing. Your reasoning isn’t incorrect, but I feel it’s more important to focus on the eternal reward of faithfulness rather than the eternal punishment of unforgiven sin (or whatever Hell may be).
Dek Rollins said:
they spend more time wacking off than they do imitating Christ’s love.The reason they do that is because it’s a natural urge and desire of human beings (which God supposedly created). It’s especially a very natural part of growing up and developing. Encouraging people, and especially youth, to repress themselves and be ashamed of themselves for something that’s biologically ingrained into them is one of Christianity’s biggest faults today.
I mean, that wasn’t my point, but okay. I don’t disagree with you.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
moviefreakedmind said:
the animosity in Northern Ireland definitely stems more from culture and identity than faith.OK
Protestant divisiveness over there is not actually about faith at all
Not OK
PS: thank you for making the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Okay, I get what you’re saying. For the record, I did find chyron’s assessment simplistic, I was just commenting on the tone of your response.
The Person in Question
The “fire insurance” is the only reason to dedicate your life to Christ. You may say there are little benefits, but if you weren’t going to roast in hell there’d be no reason to suffer through church, evangelizing, praying, and all that. Life’s too short.
I feel like this is kind of a glass half empty or half full thing. Your reasoning isn’t incorrect, but I feel it’s more important to focus on the eternal reward of faithfulness rather than the eternal punishment of unforgiven sin (or whatever Hell may be).
The reward isn’t as desirable as the punishment is horrifying.
Dek Rollins said:
they spend more time wacking off than they do imitating Christ’s love.The reason they do that is because it’s a natural urge and desire of human beings (which God supposedly created). It’s especially a very natural part of growing up and developing. Encouraging people, and especially youth, to repress themselves and be ashamed of themselves for something that’s biologically ingrained into them is one of Christianity’s biggest faults today.
I mean, that wasn’t my point, but okay. I don’t disagree with you.
Oh, well that’s how I took it.
The Person in Question
moviefreakedmind said:
the animosity in Northern Ireland definitely stems more from culture and identity than faith.OK
Protestant divisiveness over there is not actually about faith at all
Not OK
PS: thank you for making the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Okay, I get what you’re saying. For the record, I did find chyron’s assessment simplistic, I was just commenting on the tone of your response.
Well maybe he struck a nerve after all 😃
The “fire insurance” is the only reason to dedicate your life to Christ. You may say there are little benefits, but if you weren’t going to roast in hell there’d be no reason to suffer through church, evangelizing, praying, and all that. Life’s too short.
I feel like this is kind of a glass half empty or half full thing. Your reasoning isn’t incorrect, but I feel it’s more important to focus on the eternal reward of faithfulness rather than the eternal punishment of unforgiven sin (or whatever Hell may be).
The reward isn’t as desirable as the punishment is horrifying.
Dek Rollins said:
they spend more time wacking off than they do imitating Christ’s love.The reason they do that is because it’s a natural urge and desire of human beings (which God supposedly created). It’s especially a very natural part of growing up and developing. Encouraging people, and especially youth, to repress themselves and be ashamed of themselves for something that’s biologically ingrained into them is one of Christianity’s biggest faults today.
I mean, that wasn’t my point, but okay. I don’t disagree with you.
Oh, well that’s how I took it.
I was just referring to the fact that they have no desire to express the love of Christ to others. The “wack” was just an example that I chose based on its place in religious society.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
moviefreakedmind said:
the animosity in Northern Ireland definitely stems more from culture and identity than faith.OK
Protestant divisiveness over there is not actually about faith at all
Not OK
PS: thank you for making the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Okay, I get what you’re saying. For the record, I did find chyron’s assessment simplistic, I was just commenting on the tone of your response.
It’s heresay anyway. I told you in general what I remember what they in general told me that someone told them while on a tour there. The guide said something to the effect of not even wanting to live in the same neighborhood as the other. So yes, it’s simplistic, but my point is it’s not actually about disagreements between doctrines.
moviefreakedmind said:
the animosity in Northern Ireland definitely stems more from culture and identity than faith.OK.
If you speak only about “the Troubles” (after 1960), then OK, this is a segregation problem based on ethnical and sectarian criteria more than a question of faith.
Yes, Northern Ireland. Not Ireland.
I was not talking about the history. I was talking about the current state of things, so yes, I guess.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
The “fire insurance” is the only reason to dedicate your life to Christ. You may say there are little benefits, but if you weren’t going to roast in hell there’d be no reason to suffer through church, evangelizing, praying, and all that. Life’s too short.
I feel like this is kind of a glass half empty or half full thing. Your reasoning isn’t incorrect, but I feel it’s more important to focus on the eternal reward of faithfulness rather than the eternal punishment of unforgiven sin (or whatever Hell may be).
The reward isn’t as desirable as the punishment is horrifying.
Dek Rollins said:
they spend more time wacking off than they do imitating Christ’s love.The reason they do that is because it’s a natural urge and desire of human beings (which God supposedly created). It’s especially a very natural part of growing up and developing. Encouraging people, and especially youth, to repress themselves and be ashamed of themselves for something that’s biologically ingrained into them is one of Christianity’s biggest faults today.
I mean, that wasn’t my point, but okay. I don’t disagree with you.
Oh, well that’s how I took it.
I was just referring to the fact that they have no desire to express the love of Christ to others. The “wack” was just an example that I chose based on its place in religious society.
They probably have no desire to express it to others because most people don’t want to hear about the love of Christ. I certainly don’t.
The Person in Question
I have a question for Christian users here. What exactly do you find inspirational about Jesus Christ? I find that a lot of Christians see him as a role model as well as a god and I’m curious about specifics.
His willingness to go against traditionalist, legalistic religion has a large part to do with it.
Time to go into specifics.
***
Matthew 5:21-24 (NRSV)
“You have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You shall not murder’; and ‘whoever murders shall be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire. So when you are offering your gift at the altar, if you remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother or sister, and then come and offer your gift.”
Matthew 5:33-37 (NRSV)
“Again, you have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but carry out the vows you have made to the Lord.’ But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let your word be ‘Yes, Yes’ or ‘No, No’; anything more than this comes from the evil one.”
Matthew 5:43-48 (NRSV)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Matthew 6:5-6 (NRSV)
“And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”
Matthew 7:1-5 (NRSV)
“Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.”
Matthew 7:12 (NRSV)
“In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.”
Matthew 7:21-23 (NRSV)
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’”
Luke 10:25-37 (NRSV)
Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.”
But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said, ‘Take care of him; and when I come back, I will repay you whatever more you spend.’ Which of these three, do you think, was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
Luke 13:10-17 (NRSV)
Now he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. And just then there appeared a woman with a spirit that had crippled her for eighteen years. She was bent over and was quite unable to stand up straight. When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said, “Woman, you are set free from your ailment.” When he laid his hands on her, immediately she stood up straight and began praising God. But the leader of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had cured on the sabbath, kept saying to the crowd, “There are six days on which work ought to be done; come on those days and be cured, and not on the sabbath day.” But the Lord answered him and said, “You hypocrites! Does not each of you on the sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the manger, and lead it away to give it water? And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen long years, be set free from this bondage on the sabbath day?” When he said this, all his opponents were put to shame; and the entire crowd was rejoicing at all the wonderful things that he was doing.
John 8:2-11 (NRSV)
Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, they said to him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, sir.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.”
John 12:32 (NRSV)
"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Gospel of Thomas, Saying 3
Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, ‘Look, the (Father’s) kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father’s) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."
Gospel of Thomas, Saying 22
Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, “These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father’s) kingdom.”
They said to him, “Then shall we enter the (Father’s) kingdom as babies?”
Jesus said to them, “When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom].”
Gospel of Thomas, Saying 48
Jesus said, “If two make peace with each other in a single house, they will say to the mountain, ‘Move from here!’ and it will move.”
Gospel of Thomas, Saying 51
His disciples said to him, “When will the rest for the dead take place, and when will the new world come?”
He said to them, “What you are looking forward to has come, but you don’t know it.”
Gospel of Thomas, Saying 113
His disciples said to him, “When will the kingdom come?”
“It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, ‘Look, here!’ or ‘Look, there!’ Rather, the Father’s kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don’t see it.”
***
Those quotes above, especially from the canonical gospels, are why I admire Jesus. Do I believe all of Jesus’ teachings are correct, without error, that he was God the Son incarnate? No, I do not. Do I believe there is truth and wisdom in his teachings, that there is value and beauty in the Christian tradition in spite of all the dogmatism and legalism and literalism that has accumulated and hampered it throughout the ages? I do absolutely. For these reasons, I continue to identify as Christian.
I have a question for Christian users here. What exactly do you find inspirational about Jesus Christ? I find that a lot of Christians see him as a role model as well as a god and I’m curious about specifics.
The “fire insurance” is the only reason to dedicate your life to Christ. You may say there are little benefits, but if you weren’t going to roast in hell there’d be no reason to suffer through church, evangelizing, praying, and all that. Life’s too short.
I feel like this is kind of a glass half empty or half full thing. Your reasoning isn’t incorrect, but I feel it’s more important to focus on the eternal reward of faithfulness rather than the eternal punishment of unforgiven sin (or whatever Hell may be).
The reward isn’t as desirable as the punishment is horrifying.
Dek Rollins said:
they spend more time wacking off than they do imitating Christ’s love.The reason they do that is because it’s a natural urge and desire of human beings (which God supposedly created). It’s especially a very natural part of growing up and developing. Encouraging people, and especially youth, to repress themselves and be ashamed of themselves for something that’s biologically ingrained into them is one of Christianity’s biggest faults today.
I mean, that wasn’t my point, but okay. I don’t disagree with you.
Oh, well that’s how I took it.
I was just referring to the fact that they have no desire to express the love of Christ to others. The “wack” was just an example that I chose based on its place in religious society.
most people don’t want to hear about the love of Christ. I certainly don’t.
These two things do not go together.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
So because he thinks most people aren’t curious he isn’t allowed to be curious himself? Okay
So because he thinks most people aren’t curious he isn’t allowed to be curious himself? Okay
He says he’s curious, but then doesn’t want to hear about it. You seem to have missed were he said “I certainly don’t.”
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
So because he thinks most people aren’t curious he isn’t allowed to be curious himself? Okay
Read again, second part of second quote.
mfm may mean he doesn’t want to be proselytized, but it’s fair to ask whether he expresses curiosity in good faith or not.
The blue elephant in the room.