Ranking the Star Wars films — Page 108

John Doom said:

John Doom said:

[…] Not sure about Kashyyyk, but IIRC it was already considered as a setting for the original SW or mentioned in Chewie’s background.

ray_afraid said:

ZigZig said:

According to John Doom, Kashyyyk IS mentioned in the OT.

That’s not in the OT.

Well, I didn’t say it is actually mentioned in the movies, just that I remember it was mentioned in the scripts. So today I checked everywhere to find the source of this rumor and found this essay on the development of the Star Wars script:

http://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/the-development-of-star-wars-as-seen-through-the-scripts-by-george-lucas/

Chewbacca (now with the nickname “Chewie”) is “an eight-foot-tall-savage-looking creature resembling a huge bushbaby monkey with fierce baboon-like fangs. His large blue eyes dominate a fur-covered face and soften his otherwise awesome appearance.” 140

With his production paintings, Ralph McQuarrie had convinced Lucas to soften the two-hundred-year-old Wookiee’s frightening features and eliminate his clothes, leaving the two chrome bandoliers. 141

Beside the script, Lucas constructed a detailed culture for the Wookiees. They live in giant trees (just like the “Ewoks” in Return of the Jedi) on their homeworld Kashyyyk, and they have their own version of the Force based on their empathy with plant life. Their most sacred custom is the life debt, which Wookiees pledge to those who save their lives. When Chewbacca was saved from Imperial slavetraders by Han Solo, he pledged a life debt to Han, and now he travels with his saviour in order to carry out his sacred obligations. 142 (See also Appendix, p. 54.)

Very interesting, thank you for having found this source!

joefavs said:

As time goes on and the novelty wears off, Rogue One is starting to slip a little for me. For whatever reason, it’s the (non-PT) film I find myself popping in the least frequently. I still like it a lot, it just doesn’t scratch my SW itch as well as the others do. I guess it might be the characters. Jyn and Cassian are nowhere near as fun to spend time with as Luke, Han and Leia or Rey, Finn and Poe.

Current ranking:

SW = ESB > TFA > ROTJ > R1 > TPM > AOTC = ROTS.

I still haven’t even bought it. I know I will at some point (probably soon), but that does say something.

LexX said:

joefavs said:

As time goes on and the novelty wears off, Rogue One is starting to slip a little for me. For whatever reason, it’s the (non-PT) film I find myself popping in the least frequently.

Huh, it’s been on BD for only 6 months? I haven’t popped any film more than once in that time.

“Popping on” =/= sitting down an watching all the way through for me. I like to throw on a familiar movie in the background while I work, clean, etc. Usually Star Wars or James Bond. I do also tend to rewatch things a lot more than most people though. I saw Lawrence of Arabia in its entirety three times last summer.

You should try music instead. Lol

On a scale of 1 to 10:

Star Wars - 10
The Empire Strikes Back - 10
Return of the Jedi - 10
Revenge of the Sith - 7
Attack of the Clones - 6
The Phantom Menace - 5
Rogue One - 5
The Force Awakens - 1

I will never understand not ranking AOTC as the worst Star Wars film.

Unless you’re including the Holiday Special. Or maybe the 2008 TCW movie, but even that is better than AOTC for me.

ChainsawAsh said:

I will never understand not ranking AOTC as the worst Star Wars film.

Unless you’re including the Holiday Special. Or maybe the 2008 TCW movie, but even that is better than AOTC for me.

The worst one is the one centered around a “Mary Sue” character, given that a Mary Sue character is a poster child for bad writing; so bad that it normally only appears in the worst examples of fan fiction.

NeverarGreat said:
This is a good, well reviewed book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/186074.The_Name_of_the_Wind
The main character is a Gary Stu.
Discuss. Or better yet, let’s not.

I’m not going to read that book, nor is “well reviewed” a guarantee of good writing (The Force Awakens is well reviewed too), nor am I going to simply take your word for it that the main character is a Mary Sue. Given that one of the most common arguments from Rey apologists is, “If Rey was a Mary Sue then so was Luke,” it’s obvious that many people don’t know what a Mary Sue is. Luke wasn’t even close to being a Mary Sue.

Oh good, another “TFA is so terrible it gets a -1 and also I’m going to use a shitty misogynistic term to describe the main character, which is even more galling considering the fact that all the sexual abuse that has been going on for generations is finally just barely coming to light” troll.

And you better believe I don’t care if this is the wrong thread for that post. I’m fed up.

TV’s Frink said:

Oh good, another "TFA is so terrible it gets a -1 and also I’m going to use a shitty misogynistic term to describe the main character,

^^^ Case in point, with regard to what I said about many people not even knowing what a Mary Sue is. It is not even remotely a “misogynistic” term, given that it isn’t even a sex-specific term. It denotes a type of character, male or female is irrelevant. The optional, equivalent term for such a character, if male, is “Gary Stu”, or “Marty Stu”.

which is even more galling considering the fact that all the sexual abuse that has been going on for generations is finally just barely coming to light" troll.

Say what? “Sexual abuse”? How’s the weather out today there in deep, deep left field? Your entire post is a non sequitur, and as such, consider it dismissed out of hand.

I’m shocked you don’t get it. Shocked.

Also you used ^ incorrectly.

moviefreakedmind said:

Isn’t Anakin the very definition of a Mary Sue? At least in TPM he is. He’s the best pilot in the world at age 5 for no reason other than that he’s supposed to be.

No, he isn’t a Mary Sue. First, not everyone loves him or is otherwise fascinated by him. Obi-Wan doesn’t seem to care much for him, and neither does Yoda or the rest of the Jedi council. All of them think it’s a bad idea to train him. He is also a slave, and his owner, Watto, thinks so little of him that he doesn’t mind putting his ownership of him up as stakes in a bet.

Second, he never intentionally used the force, which is how it should be, because he hadn’t had any force training yet. He used it unconsiously, to enhance skills that he had already learned in the conventional way, which is in line with Qui-Gon’s explanation to his mother. When we meet him, he has already podraced many times, and has failed many times. His other significant accomplishment of the movie, destroying the ship that controlled the droid army, was something he bumbled into in Jar Jar Binks fashion. Autopilot got him most of the way there in the first place, and then he started trying random things, which resulted in a stray shot hitting the reactor.

He was an annoying character, but he wasn’t a Mary Sue.

TV’s Frink said:

I’m shocked you don’t get it. Shocked.

This is another non sequitur from you, and given that you have no further arguments, your tacit concession on the matter is noted.

Personally, I’ll take a “Mary Sue” over an annoying character any day.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Personally, I’ll take a “Mary Sue” over an annoying character any day.

I would too, if I didn’t find Mary Sue characters annoying. The most annoying characters in the Star Wars movie series are (in my opinion):

1. Rey
2. Jar Jar Binks
3. Jake Lloyd’s Anakin Skywalker

I’d probably find Hayden Christensen’s Anakin Skywalker annoying too if he wasn’t so [unintentionally] comical.

So…we all agree that AOTC is the absolute worst then, right? That’s what I’m getting out of this.

NeverarGreat said:
http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1069656

Rey is more of a Mary Sue than the Mary Sue for which the trope was named, which is funny, considering that, that Mary Sue was already intended to be an exaggerated parody of that type of character. The Mary Sue in the trope-naming parody had at least been through Starfleet Academy, while Rey was nothing more than a scavenger. You’d be hard pressed to find a more blatant Mary Sue than Rey anywhere, even if you look in fan fiction.

This is from a post on another forum, comparing Rey to Luke, by a poster with the username Jedan_Archer:

Quote:

Luke goes indeed from zero to hero (Hero’s journey character). If you really put ANH-Luke and TFA-Rey together, it becomes evident. Most important elements are:

• Rey understands all languages, including Wookie (!) and droid speak (!!) - Luke does not;

• Rey is a formidable fighter beating up thugs and scaring scavengers away from their loot - Luke is not, he is beaten up several times (by the sand people & in the bar) and is in need of protection and help throughout the movie (Han, Obi Wan);

• Rey despite being raised by ruthless scavengers such as Unkar Putt has developed an superhuman morality motivating her to starve rather than to betray a little droid she just met – Luke treats droids like property/slaves;

• Rey immediately is an (untrained) formidable marks man hitting everything at a great distance while running away and shooting a stranger’s gun; Rey can even (incredibly) aim with the turret while she is piloting - Luke cannot, he is an average shot at best missing many shots;

• People and droids follow Rey like puppies, especially BB-8 (who is useless because Rey does all mechanics/engineering and door opening alone) – Luke seems not to have this fascinating effect, his droid R2 tricks him and runs away from him;

• Rey wants to stay home but only leaves for loyalty to her new friends and destiny - Luke wants to leave home, but stays out of weakness and loyalty (Owen/Beru);

• Rey is her own master and independent – Luke is not;

• Rey is an ace climber and spelunker - Luke is not;

• Rey the scavenger is an incredible ace pilot: Without a copilot or any experience with the ship she masterfully pilots the bulky Falcon through an abandoned destroyer and graveyard under fire outmaneuvering trained combat pilots - Luke does not even understand how the cockpit of the MF works (“what’s that flashing?”);

• While flying alone, Rey performs incredible stunt piloting moves, including aligning the Falcon in midair so that Finn just has to pull the trigger (“How did you do that? - I don’t know – That was some flying – It was PERFECT”) - Luke however is mocked, derided and not allowed to pilot, despite being set up as a pilot; and even in empty space in his X-Wing Luke needs constant assistance from R2 and other pilots and Han, who sacrifice themselves for him.

• Rey circumvents the security of Starkiller so that the explosive charges can be placed and the SK base be destroyed - Luke has no such abilities, he needs R2 to get saved from the trash compactor;

• Rey saves herself out of captivity, and only does not flee so that the team can blow up Starkiller, without her they would be lost - Luke plan to save Leia is amateurish and Leia takes over the lead when his poorly thought out plan fails miserably;

• Rey is an incredible mechanic and even a brilliant engineer stunning even Han (“I bypassed the compressor”) - Luke does not show such talents;

• Rey can do advanced Jedi Force tricks without training, like telekinesis, mind tricks, mind reading etc - Luke needs training for very basic Force abilities (knowing when to shoot the torpedo), and only reaches Rey’s ability level when he is a trained Jedi;

• Rey beats the main antagonist (Kylo, Master of the Ren) several times with untrained Force and sword skills - Luke does not even come near the main antagonist (Vader), except for being nearly shot down by him and being saved by others;

• Rey is better with everything and bests everyone at their game (Han, Finn, Kylo, droids etc), even Luke & Poe were partially removed from the script so they cannot steal her spotlight; everybody becomes her cheerleader (Leia, Chewie, Finn etc) - Luke is a whiny, reckless loser at the beginning: Han is cooler, Obi is more powerful, Leia his sister is lightyears ahead of him (Leader, senator), his friends such as Biggs are ahead of him too;

• Rey is the only hot young girl around with a posh accent - Luke is an average small farmboy, one of many kids, who mostly left him behind already;

• Rey gets a glorification hug for no apparent reason from the VIP Resistance leader (Leia) instead of her old friend Chewie or all the returning heroes who Leia leads - Luke does not get any unwarranted hugs but after he succeeds and after he becomes friends with the huggers (Leia/Han);

• Rey becomes captain of the MF after Han’s death, stepping over Chewie who “likes her” and looks at her in an adoring way (like everybody else, the Rebels are even waving her collectively goodbye when she leaves) - Luke does not get any positions and is violently pushed away by Chewie;

• Rey is sent on the most important mission to find Luke, leaving all his friend and family behind her - Luke does not get any solo missions;

• Rey is so important and special that even long lost light sabers and dead VIP masters like Obi Wan and Yoda call out to her - nobody really calls out to Luke;

• Rey is desired by everybody, but she is hard to get: she either friend zones or emasculates the characters who are fascinated by her - Luke does not even get the girl in the end. In the end, Rey gets Han’s gun and ship, Luke’s light saber and R2-droid, and Chewie as a copilot - and she finds MacGuffin-Luke: she is the SOLE HEIR and SAVIOUR of the SW UNIVERSE - Luke gets a medal, but only next to Han, who already is successfully flirting with Luke’s wanna-be girlfriend and sister!