Hardcore Legend said:
Are you lumping ROTJ int the PT? Because otherwise, your view of the character does not fit.
ROTJ is different because it’s Luke’s story, not Anakin’s.
Even if Vader is a monster, we can feel happy for Luke. If he thinks there is a little good left in his father and he can bring it out, then OK Luke we’re rooting for you. But we’re not happy for Anakin at the end of the movie–we’re happy for Luke.
Hardcore Legend said:
Are you lumping ROTJ int the PT? Because otherwise, your view of the character does not fit.ROTJ is different because it’s Luke’s story, not Anakin’s.
Even if Vader is a monster, we can feel happy for Luke. If he thinks there is a little good left in his father and he can bring it out, then OK Luke we’re rooting for you. But we’re not happy for Anakin at the end of the movie–we’re happy for Luke.
But Vader is clearly the lapdog of others from the beginning. He answers to Tarkin, he answers to Palpatine.
I understand what you are saying, as far as Anakin’s sins weighing on him and causing him to commit more to ‘fix’ it, as in Macbeth. But that doesn’t fit Vader’s character because at no point in the OT is he really in charge of anything. He goes where he is told and the one time he ventures out on his own (chasing the Falcon), he scurries out of the asteroid field to answer the Emperor’s call.
Even Obi-Wan’s reminiscing of Anakin to Luke is made to be sympathetic.
Hardcore Legend said:
But that doesn’t fit Vader’s character because at no point in the OT is he really in charge of anything. He goes where he is told and the one time he ventures out on his own (chasing the Falcon), he scurries out of the asteroid field to answer the Emperor’s call.
He’s in charge of everything except that he answers to the Emperor, who he is actively plotting to overthrow. Sounds more like Macbeth to me.
Even Obi-Wan’s reminiscing of Anakin to Luke is made to be sympathetic.
Well sure, he was a good guy at one point who was seduced by power and became bad. The prequels didn’t tell that story though.
The entire prequel trilogy is whiny and childish because it represents a whiny and childish view of the world: that even bad people are good, and there are plenty of excuses that justify or explain their actions.
Not all “bad” people are black-and-white bad. Nor do all “bad” people think they are bad. Sometimes it’s dependent on point of view.
I didn’t know the man but I’m guessing Hitler had plenty of excuses so he could sleep at night.
This is not meant to defend the PT…or Hitler. The idea that “bad” is a point of view was one of the things I liked about the PT, but unfortunately it fumbled the execution.
“Bad” as a point of view dates farther back in SW than the PT. Or at least a lie as a point of view does.
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“Bad” as a point of view dates farther back in SW than the PT. Or at least a lie as a point of view does.
Of course, we’re all familiar with Ben’s speech. I just mean using it to explain Anakin’s turn could have been a good starting point if it was followed through competently.
“Bad” as a point of view dates farther back in SW than the PT. Or at least a lie as a point of view does.
Of course, we’re all familiar with Ben’s speech. I just mean using it to explain Anakin’s turn could have been a good starting point if it was followed through competently.
I agree. In BanditIncorperated’s version of the PT Anakin turns against the Jedi because the refuded to sign a peace treaty because they wanted to search for Sidious. The straw that broke the camel’s back was when Anakin went to a war memorial for the millions who died in The Clone Wars. That’s a far better reason than he had in George’s PT.
“Bad” as a point of view dates farther back in SW than the PT. Or at least a lie as a point of view does.
Of course, we’re all familiar with Ben’s speech. I just mean using it to explain Anakin’s turn could have been a good starting point if it was followed through competently.
Even if Anakin’s turn were done skillfully, there would still be a major problem with the entire story: the PT+OT = Saga becomes Anakin’s story, only Anakin never does anything to redeem himself. It’s only an allusion that we are given through Luke’s eyes.
As long as the story is Luke’s story and Luke’s story only, it works. The moment you introduce younger Anakin, the entire story becomes a false narrative.
“Bad” as a point of view dates farther back in SW than the PT. Or at least a lie as a point of view does.
Of course, we’re all familiar with Ben’s speech. I just mean using it to explain Anakin’s turn could have been a good starting point if it was followed through competently.
Even if Anakin’s turn were done skillfully, there would still be a major problem with the entire story: the PT+OT = Saga becomes Anakin’s story
Not necessarily. There’s no reason why we can’t see the PT and OT as separate stories that tell the larger Skywalker narrative.
“Bad” as a point of view dates farther back in SW than the PT. Or at least a lie as a point of view does.
Of course, we’re all familiar with Ben’s speech. I just mean using it to explain Anakin’s turn could have been a good starting point if it was followed through competently.
Even if Anakin’s turn were done skillfully, there would still be a major problem with the entire story: the PT+OT = Saga becomes Anakin’s story
Not necessarily. There’s no reason why we can’t see the PT and OT as separate stories that tell the larger Skywalker narrative.
Disney seems to consider it the Skywalker Family Saga.
PT: The Tragedy of Darth Vader
OT: The Adventures of Luke Skywalker
ST: ???
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
“Bad” as a point of view dates farther back in SW than the PT. Or at least a lie as a point of view does.
Of course, we’re all familiar with Ben’s speech. I just mean using it to explain Anakin’s turn could have been a good starting point if it was followed through competently.
Even if Anakin’s turn were done skillfully, there would still be a major problem with the entire story: the PT+OT = Saga becomes Anakin’s story
Not necessarily. There’s no reason why we can’t see the PT and OT as separate stories that tell the larger Skywalker narrative.
Disney seems to consider it the Skywalker Family Saga.
PT: The Tragedy of Darth Vader
OT: The Adventures of Luke Skywalker
ST: The Skywalkers inspired people from all parts of the galaxy (for better or worse)
is what I’m hoping for. Vader inspired Kylo Ben Solo, Luke inspired Rey Random.
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I’d say his biggest mistake was thinking Star Wars should be “for kids”.
That’s his primary justification for making Han shoot second and Jar-Jar. And I’ll admit, being in 7th grade when Episode I came out I thought Jar-Jar was freaking hilarious!
That whole line of thought permeates the prequels, and unfortunately leads to them being dumbed down to bad saturday morning cartoon levels when it comes to story and script. It just looks like Lucas didn’t take his own universe seriously. Or perhaps he was more focused on “teaching” kids something and thought he’d have to dumb things down to get his message across to 7 year olds.
I’m surprised to hear some people like the prequels more than the TFA/R1. Sure they haven’t really gone anywhere new yet, but I’d rather have filler with decent characters and writing than a “new story” that makes no sense and makes cringe multiple times.
Hi Scott Lobster! When I read your name, I hear Fred Schneider!
That’s a good thing!
I’m surprised to hear some people like the prequels more than the TFA/R1. Sure they haven’t really gone anywhere new yet, but I’d rather have filler with decent characters and writing than a “new story” that makes no sense and makes cringe multiple times.
I think you’ll find the most people around here feel the same way.
I used to think it was the special editions, but in light of TFA and Rogue One I might say it was maybe selling the franchise to Disney.
I sense that this was the whole point of the thread.
Reading R + L ≠ J theories
Sparky wins! 😄
I don’t understand the idea that the mere existence of movies that you don’t like is worse than the unavailability of movies that you love. How anyone could love the OOT and say that selling to Disney is worse than burying the originals is beyond me.
The Person in Question
The Disney sale and all that has followed has created much irrationality.
Hyperbole and hysteria blinding.
They’re also Frevious’ favorite things.
I’d say his biggest mistake was thinking Star Wars should be “for kids”.
That’s his primary justification for making Han shoot second and Jar-Jar. And I’ll admit, being in 7th grade when Episode I came out I thought Jar-Jar was freaking hilarious!
That whole line of thought permeates the prequels, and unfortunately leads to them being dumbed down to bad saturday morning cartoon levels when it comes to story and script. It just looks like Lucas didn’t take his own universe seriously. Or perhaps he was more focused on “teaching” kids something and thought he’d have to dumb things down to get his message across to 7 year olds.
I’m surprised to hear some people like the prequels more than the TFA/R1. Sure they haven’t really gone anywhere new yet, but I’d rather have filler with decent characters and writing than a “new story” that makes no sense and makes cringe multiple times.
TFA’s biggest strength is the new cast. I genuinely want to know more about them, as much as I do Luke and Chewbacca. I have hope and excitement for the Last Jedi- which is more than I ever did for AOTC or ROTS.
Rogue One adds much to my viewing of Star Wars. Now I know why Tagge was so cautious about the Alliance.
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
I’m surprised to hear some people like the prequels more than the TFA/R1. Sure they haven’t really gone anywhere new yet, but I’d rather have filler with decent characters and writing than a “new story” that makes no sense and makes cringe multiple times.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
I’m surprised to hear some people like the prequels more than the TFA/R1. Sure they haven’t really gone anywhere new yet, but I’d rather have filler with decent characters and writing than a “new story” that makes no sense and makes cringe multiple times.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
She has disappeared, my lord. One Naboo cruiser got past the blockade.
Am I doing this unrelated-Star-Wars-quote thing right?
Ceci n’est pas une signature.
I’m surprised to hear some people like the prequels more than the TFA/R1. Sure they haven’t really gone anywhere new yet, but I’d rather have filler with decent characters and writing than a “new story” that makes no sense and makes cringe multiple times.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
She has disappeared, my lord. One Naboo cruiser got past the blockade.
Am I doing this unrelated-Star-Wars-quote thing right?
Nooo. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.
Cutting out hot, snarky girl in the Tosche station. She had a boyfriend but he was definitely a douche and Luke was in with a shot. In fact, why isn’t the film about her? that, in my opinion, is Lucas’ worst decision.
That was Koo Stark, who was almost cast as Princess Leia, and was romantically involved with a prince in real life.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Koo_Stark
Where were you in '77?
I’m surprised to hear some people like the prequels more than the TFA/R1. Sure they haven’t really gone anywhere new yet, but I’d rather have filler with decent characters and writing than a “new story” that makes no sense and makes cringe multiple times.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
She has disappeared, my lord. One Naboo cruiser got past the blockade.
Am I doing this unrelated-Star-Wars-quote thing right?
It wasn’t unrelated ¯\_(ツ)_/¯