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The Random EU Thoughts Thread — Page 5

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ZkinandBonez said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

I’ve been reading some of the old Marvel comics lately (got a big book of them for Christmas, just finished issue 12). Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that Crimson Jack got his ship from the Battle of Scarif in Rogue One?

Well it does fit Jack’s description of how he got it, so why not. It’s a pity it’s no longer canon because Jack hijacking a star destroyer at Scarif could have made a pretty interesting story.

(Btw, which omnibus is is that you’re reading? Hopefully it’s not one of those that stop right in the middle of a plot-line. The Doomworld story-line is fun, but in my opinion it only gets better from then on. All of the Goodwin/Infantino stories released prior to ESB are pretty great.)

It’s a good thing I ignore canon in favor of my own personal one, so into my canon it goes!

It’s the “Marvel Epic Collection” volume 1. It collects Star Wars #1-23 and material from Pizzazz #1-16 & Star Wars Weekly (UK) #60, according to the back cover.

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suspiciouscoffee said:

ZkinandBonez said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

I’ve been reading some of the old Marvel comics lately (got a big book of them for Christmas, just finished issue 12). Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that Crimson Jack got his ship from the Battle of Scarif in Rogue One?

Well it does fit Jack’s description of how he got it, so why not. It’s a pity it’s no longer canon because Jack hijacking a star destroyer at Scarif could have made a pretty interesting story.

(Btw, which omnibus is is that you’re reading? Hopefully it’s not one of those that stop right in the middle of a plot-line. The Doomworld story-line is fun, but in my opinion it only gets better from then on. All of the Goodwin/Infantino stories released prior to ESB are pretty great.)

It’s a good thing I ignore canon in favor of my own personal one, so into my canon it goes!

It’s the “Marvel Epic Collection” volume 1. It collects Star Wars #1-23 and material from Pizzazz #1-16 & Star Wars Weekly (UK) #60, according to the back cover.

Well at least that omnibus doesn’t stop in the middle of a plot-line, so that’s good. Though I would recommend reading the rest of the comics published prior to ESB (e.g. up until #37.) There’s some good stories published after ESB as well, but they’re not connected in quite the same way.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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According to Amazon, Vol. 2 comes out next summer and will have #24-38, along with Annual 1 and more UK Weekly issues, so I’ll probably get that if I don’t get impatient and start hunting down the original issues.

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suspiciouscoffee said:

According to Amazon, Vol. 2 comes out next summer and will have #24-38, along with Annual 1 and more UK Weekly issues, so I’ll probably get that if I don’t get impatient and start hunting down the original issues.

(Just FYI, if you get really impatient, and tracking down individual issues proves too hard, I imagine you could find a second-hand copy of this omnibus from 2002 pretty cheaply.)

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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suspiciouscoffee said:

ZkinandBonez said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

I’ve been reading some of the old Marvel comics lately (got a big book of them for Christmas, just finished issue 12). Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that Crimson Jack got his ship from the Battle of Scarif in Rogue One?

Well it does fit Jack’s description of how he got it, so why not. It’s a pity it’s no longer canon because Jack hijacking a star destroyer at Scarif could have made a pretty interesting story.

(Btw, which omnibus is is that you’re reading? Hopefully it’s not one of those that stop right in the middle of a plot-line. The Doomworld story-line is fun, but in my opinion it only gets better from then on. All of the Goodwin/Infantino stories released prior to ESB are pretty great.)

It’s a good thing I ignore canon in favor of my own personal one, so into my canon it goes!

Where’s that Citizen Kane clapping gif when I need it?

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suspiciouscoffee said:

It’s the “Marvel Epic Collection” volume 1. It collects Star Wars #1-23 and material from Pizzazz #1-16 & Star Wars Weekly (UK) #60, according to the back cover.

Fantastic, glad to see the UK stories being preserved and presented!

Forum Moderator
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Kyp Durron visits Vader’s remains on Endor. It brings Kylo Ren to mind.

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I remember predicting (wrongfully) that the first scene of TFA would be of Kylo travelling to Endor to find Vader’s charred helmet, and then using Starkiller base to blow it up (I was going off the scene from the trailers in which a forest is destroyed).

Not enough people read the EU.

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I just read the first six issues of the 1998 Star Wars comic, set in the prequel era. The comics did a good job at fleshing out Ki-Adi Mundi’s character, but it interfere’s with the continuity set up in Attack of the Clones, because it is established in the comics that Ki-Adi has many wives and children whom he cares for greatly, and is allowed to return to his home planet, unlike any other prequel Jedi.

Not enough people read the EU.

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I think I read somewhere that they retconned it so that he still had said family, and was allowed to because his species was endangered, so he was the exception to the Jedi celibacy rule.

But who cares if it contradicts that awful movie anyway?

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I have a modest fondness for most the prequel era comics published before AOTC’s release. There were still despised PT elements in them, to be sure, but Jedi still were allowed to have romantic relationships and wield lightsabers of various colours. Some of them, like the Ki-Adi-Mundi story mentioned above, I even consider part of my personal canon.

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Yeah, I guess the Jedi thought that the Force couldn’t surround and penetrate all living things if one of those living things happened to die off. Cute.

The Rise of Failures

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I strongly believe that George “borrowed” most of Ki-Adi Mundi’s story for Anakin. There are a lot of parallels between the two characters. I used to have them all memorized but it’s been years since I last read those comics. The biggest one that comes to mind at the moment is that Mundi is appointed to the Council before achieving the rank of Jedi Master. If someone else wants to chime in with other parallels I’d appreciate it.

As for why I think this. George is well known for reading and enjoying all of the Star Wars comics. He’s been sighted numerous times from the prequel era through to the Disney era of coming out of comic shops with the latest issues in hand. In Attack of the Clones he canonized Aayla Secura a comic character and later in Revenge of the Sith name drops her master. He would later go on to introduce said character in the Clone Wars television series.

It’s also not without precedence. Quite a few character designs and locations from the Droids animated series found their way throughout the Prequels.

Forum Moderator
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Just read a Star Wars Tales story in which Han is taken to court after shooting Greedo. The piece was hilarious, and took numerous pot shots at the whole “Greedo Shot First” ordeal. I really love Star Wars Tales.

Not enough people read the EU.

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Yeah, Star Wars Tales was awesome … until these issues came out. Then the comic became a dumping ground for multi-issue stories which were “canon” and could’ve been slotted into any of the SW comics Dark Horse was publishing at the time. 80% of the fun was automatically sucked right out of Star Wars Tales with that lameass move.

I’m not at all surprised the title was cancelled shortly thereafter.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Yeah, Star Wars Tales was awesome … until these issues came out. Then the comic became a dumping ground for multi-issue stories which were “canon” and could’ve been slotted into any of the SW comics Dark Horse was publishing at the time. 80% of the fun was automatically sucked right out of Star Wars Tales with that lameass move.

I’m not at all surprised the title was cancelled shortly thereafter.

Damn, what a disappointment. I hope I enjoy them regardless.

Not enough people read the EU.

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I’m probably “preaching to the choir” here so-to-speak (I couldn’t think of a better expression), but I’ve noticed something weird while reading the Hand of Thrawn duology from the late 90’s. There’s the obvious flaws of the books, which is simply that they’re not as well written as the Thrawn trilogy, the plot is somewhat cluttered, not to mention a bit confusing at times, and the pacing is very slow. But one thing which really stands out to me is how many times the story just comes to a grinding halt in order to reference something from other EU stories. F.ex. there’s several pages where Luke and Mara Jade simply discuss the events of the Dark Empire comics. It has little to nothing to do with the overall plot, but it takes up a surprising amount of time. And that’s just one example, it also includes several characters from Stackpole’s X-Wing series, as well as a lot of references, mostly names, that barely have anything to do with the story. It probably made sense to fans who read these books back in 1997-1998, but now it’s very jarring. I’m assuming that this isn’t very unusual for books like these, but it suddenly occurred to me that the Thrawn trilogy does not do this. And other stories from the early 90’s that I’ve read does it to a much smaller and subtler degree. It makes sense that the Thrawn trilogy would’t reference anything but the OT movies as there wasn’t really any EU to reference yet. But even Dark Empire has very few references. Thrawn is briefly mentioned in the “opening crawl” in the first issue, but it’s not confusing. I had not read any Thrawn book when I first read Dark Empire, but I felt that the crawl sufficiently explain anything I needed to know, which was basically that; some Imperial named Thrawn caused a lot of trouble after ROTJ, then he was defeated, and shortly after the Empire re-took Coruscant. Simple, short, and I was up to speed on the current lore while still being allowed to focus on the story I was currently reading without having to go read something else first. With the Hand of Thrawn books that came out 7 to 8 years later on the other hand, I feel like in every other chapter I have to stop reading, pull out my phone and look up some name or event on Wookieepedia. I am well aware of the convoluted nature of the EU, but this is really the first time it has been so apparent to me while reading a novel. I honestly expected references to be subtler or more naturally incorporated into the narrative.

Is it just Zahn who did this in his later SW-related books, or is this common in the other books as well? I imagine this is the biggest problem with EUs in general, when they get cluttered you loose the space previously reserved for interesting and original stories and instead have to focus on putting them into an elaborate timeline in which multiple people have contributed to.

How is this in the new EU? I’m curious as I have not bothered to read any of the new material.

I’m also kind of surprised that I haven’t noticed this before, hence why I’m wondering if the Hand of Thrawn books are an exception. (I’ve read a handful of novels and comics, as well as played a lot of the games from the early 2000’s, but apart from planets being references to previous stories, I can’t remember any of them referencing EU characters, unless of course they’d been in the previous books/comics/games.)

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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The cross-referencing was very common in the old EU. Some of it was even requested by Lucasfilm. And some of it were just retcons. The Thrawn trilogy didn’t have those references, simply because it was one of the first things written.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Dark Empire was originally supposed to deal with the Alliance capturing Coruscant after the defeat of the Empire shortly after the events of ROTJ, but Zahn refused to reference the events that were supposed to happen in Dark Empire in his then incomplete trilogy, so Dark Empire’s events were instead moved to after the Thrawn trilogy with the Empire recapturing Coruscant for a short while (which was of course incredibly convoluted).

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Wexter said:

The cross-referencing was very common in the old EU. Some of it was even requested by Lucasfilm. And some of it were just retcons. The Thrawn trilogy didn’t have those references, simply because it was one of the first things written.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Dark Empire was originally supposed to deal with the Alliance capturing Coruscant after the defeat of the Empire shortly after the events of ROTJ, but Zahn refused to reference the events that were supposed to happen in Dark Empire in his then incomplete trilogy, so Dark Empire’s events were instead moved to after the Thrawn trilogy with the Empire recapturing Coruscant for a short while (which was of course incredibly convoluted).

Yep.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Wexter said:

The cross-referencing was very common in the old EU. Some of it was even requested by Lucasfilm. And some of it were just retcons. The Thrawn trilogy didn’t have those references, simply because it was one of the first things written.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Dark Empire was originally supposed to deal with the Alliance capturing Coruscant after the defeat of the Empire shortly after the events of ROTJ, but Zahn refused to reference the events that were supposed to happen in Dark Empire in his then incomplete trilogy, so Dark Empire’s events were instead moved to after the Thrawn trilogy with the Empire recapturing Coruscant for a short while (which was of course incredibly convoluted).

That’s interesting. I knew that Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire (first issue) came out roughly the same time, but I didn’t know that Veitch was forced to conform to Zahn’s ideas.

It did occur to me why Heir to the Empire (and the Thrawn trilogy) in general didn’t have EU references. As you said, there wasn’t really anything to reference at that point. But the main reason that Hand of Thrawn surprised me was that out of the books and comics that I have read it was somewhat more exaggerated and shoehorned in than the others. Even Dark Empire #1 which came out only a few months after Heir to the Empire had EU references (Thrwn, Han & Leia’s twins), but it was handled much better than what Zahn did later.

Basically what I’m saying is that the EU cross-references that I’ve read previously felt more-or-less natural to the plot, and sometimes they even went unnoticed by me until I actually looked up the characters/places. In Hand of Thrawn they felt random and sometimes even unrelated.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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IIRC, the whole point of that part in the book where they talk about the reborn Emperor was to suggest that maybe it wasn’t really Palpatine but an imposter. Apparently Zahn really hated the plot of Dark Empire. 😃

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IIRC, Zahn was none too fond of direction the EU went in after the release of the Thrawn Trilogy – he never liked Palpatine returning in clone bodies, how KJA & co. developed Mara’s character, etc. – so he felt compelled to fix those issues in the Hand of Thrawn books. That’s why so many of those references are there.

Oh yeah, and he’s friends with Stackpole. They even collaborated on a story or two together.

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Wexter said:

IIRC, the whole point of that part in the book where they talk about the reborn Emperor was to suggest that maybe it wasn’t really Palpatine but an imposter. Apparently Zahn really hated the plot of Dark Empire. 😃

Maybe, but mostly it was about Luke. They seemed to suggest that all the events of the Jedi Academy books were due to Luke having been influenced by the dark side. hence everything went wrong. That entire chapter seemed to exist so that Zahn could ret-con whatever he didn’t like. Or maybe Lucasfilm as for it. I seem to recall that he was told to specifically add the Luke and Mara romance as well.

I personally really like Dark Empire, and the fact that it didn’t really acknowledge Zahn’s books outside of the crawl is fine with me. More time spent making an interesting and different story, rather than spend too much time trying to connect everything. Hand of Thrawn has over-all been fine, but all the references and attempt to combine everything has made it very tedious to read, and I much prefer the stories where the writers for the most part just wrote whatever the heck they felt like.

DuracellEnergizer said:

IIRC, Zahn was none too fond of direction the EU went in after the release of the Thrawn Trilogy – he never liked Palpatine returning in clone bodies, how KJA & co. developed Mara’s character, etc. – so he felt compelled to fix those issues in the Hand of Thrawn books. That’s why so many of those references are there.

Oh yeah, and he’s friends with Stackpole. They even collaborated on a story or two together.

So Hand of Thrawn was basically just one big ret-con to put everything together before the release of the PT.

That would explain the lack of any real story. I mean I’ve read about 600 pages and very little has actually happened. And I still have over 400 pages to go.

(Funny that he didn’t like the idea of a cloned Palpatine, since he himself was so obsessed with cloning. Even Hand of Thrawn re-introduces a cloned character from a previous story.)

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ZkinandBonez said:

I personally really like Dark Empire, and the fact that it didn’t really acknowledge Zahn’s books outside of the crawl is fine with me. More time spent making an interesting and different story, rather than spend too much time trying to connect everything.

I used to like Dark Empire as well. It did feel like jumping the shark at several points, but it had a very nice pulp comic feel. I also have to admit I am not a huge fan of Zahn. Always felt like his stories were really smart, but ultimately not that exciting.