zenslinger

phineasbg said:

Thank you so much for your comments and a very thorough review, Zenslinger!

Now onto your questions:

When Mohaim is speaking to Jessica about the gom jabbar test, but before they enter Paul's room, at the very end of the scene, she says, "He is here." Referring, I assume, to Paul. I didn't rewatch the Theatrical Cut to prepare to make this post, but I don't remember this line from it. Why keep this? The line seems to have no purpose; it's obvious Paul is nearby.

The real reason that line exists in the first place is because the Mohiam scene was supposed to take place right before The Box scene.  But it was switched to an earlier location.  It makes a lot more sense in the original context, since Paul is approaching the door on foot.

I kept the order of scenes the same as the theatrical cut, because I didn't want to lose the beautiful dissolve from Jessica.  The reason I didn't trim the extra line was because in terms of rythm, it gave the scene a better sense of closure, and one could also infer that Mohiam could sense Paul now because his dreaming was becoming more intense.

The scene, also in the Theatrical Cut, in which the Atreides soldiers intercept Harkonnen communications ("Battle language!") seems misplaced in your cut. It comes before the spice mining inspection and does not add, as it does in the TC, to the tension about the impending Harkonnen sneak attack.

The main reasons I kept this line was because it was a Theatrical scene (which I wanted to retain as much as possible), and because in the new context it can be inferred that it had to do with  the Harkonnens intercepting the Carryall.

Another small scene that's in the TC, but is in a different spot here, is that of Yueh kneeling and crying. Here it comes after Yueh has sprung the trap, and has already been captured by the Harkonnens, but I don't think his hands are bound. In the TC it seems to be that he's crying about what he's going to do, but in Third Stage, it's because he's already done it. It doesn't seem to make sense, however, that he could get away from the Harkonnens long enough to have this moment alone.

This was included mostly to retain more Theatrical footage.  It's difficult to determine exactly where this scene was supposed to be, because it's shifted to different locations in different scripts.  So I decided to keep it where it was in the Theatrical version.  The main problem with the Yueh subplot in the film is that a crucial bit of information is missing that isn't in any cut: Yueh believes his wife is being held hostage.  Jessica's internal monologue of "They must have killed her," which was probably added for clarification (ironically), kind of muddies that implication.  Since Yueh was under their control due to his wife, he probably could come and go as he pleased.  But when he was fetched by Feyd, and later by the Baron, the Sardukar were probably ordered to keep him restrained while in the room with them.  In that context I think the scene works where it is.

I'm going to presume to make suggestions in case you do a 2.0. Again, please don't mistake my opinions for my being judgmental. Obviously, you're much more experienced than I am. And, again, thanks! I'm still buzzing from watching this cut several weeks ago.

For Mohaim's line: in the end, I'm fine with what you did here. But for the other two, I would suggest putting them back in the position they had in the Theatrical Cut.

For both, I wonder why it is that if you wanted to retain TC footage, you repurposed both of these scenes ("Battle language!" and Yueh's weeping alone). I still have not rewatched the TC, but it seems to me that you must have deliberately moved both these. I can see that they could theoretically work in their new roles, but especially in the case of the "Battle language!" scene, I think it works better where it originally was.

Now, I may feel this way because I have been living with the TC for almost 25 years and can't imagine those scenes any other way. But I believe that the industrial-looking hallway the soldiers listening to these communications are looking out on is supposed to represent machinery that generates the Shield Wall. Sparks are flying, implying (to me) the sabotage just before the Harkonnen attack, enforcing my impression that it belongs where it was in the TC.

With Yueh, my opinion is not quite as strong, but if I were doing it, I would put it back before the attack. True that the book's subplot about Yueh's wife is missing, and could explain why he's not restrained. But there's no help for it now if the screenwriters didn't put it in. The Harks treat Yueh very much as a prisoner in other scenes. On the other hand, an editor might want to move this scene to where you did because he feels that we've had enough of foreshadowing Yueh's betrayal. It's beyond foreshadowing, really -- we know he's the traitor. But Lynch went way out of his way to have this heavy sense of doom and foreboding over the Atreides. This scene illustrates the fact that despite not wanting to betray them, he does it anyway. We may not have the background, but the character's arc remains.

It's funny, because on the Yueh scene especially, I'm aware that its placement might not bother me if I was watching the film for the first time with Third Stage. But, if you're honing this for the audience who's going to watch it, keep in mind that almost all of them, like me, will carry the experience of watching the TC many times into watching your version.

Thanks so much for your kind responses.

I'd like to express appreciation to Phineasbg for the incredible amount of work he put in. I also wanted to ask him a couple of questions, and this seemed like the most active thread I found.

As far as finding the film online is concerned, I downloaded the .rar parts from Rapidshare. Uncompressing part one into its own folder then automatically uncompresses all of them. After burning to DVD, I could not get to Special Features and the film began to skip towards the end, but neither my DVD player nor my burner is 100% reliable, so I don't think my results are indicative of any problem. You can always just watch it on your PC.

This version really is as close as we'll get to the version we'd all like to see but probably never will: a true Director's Cut. The amount of work Phineasbg put in to correct the horrid editing decisions of the Extended Cut and to add the deleted scenes is phenomenal. I would especially like to praise his attention to sound and music. Sound design is one of David Lynch's most often overlooked strengths, and of course the Extended Cut ran roughshod over Lynch's work as well as Brian Eno's. Third Stage has that quiet dignity that saves the Toto power chords for the correct occasions. Dune has a classic, timeless feel to it, and now it plays almost like a Gone with the Wind of science fiction.

These are my questions and comments. They are submitted in the spirit of utmost respect for Phineasbg's long work and in no way constitute outright criticism of the overall effort. After all, 99% of it is amazing -- these are only observations about the other 1%:

- When Mohaim is speaking to Jessica about the gom jabbar test, but before they enter Paul's room, at the very end of the scene, she says, "He is here." Referring, I assume, to Paul. I didn't rewatch the Theatrical Cut to prepare to make this post, but I don't remember this line from it. Why keep this? The line seems to have no purpose; it's obvious Paul is nearby.

- The scene, also in the Theatrical Cut, in which the Atreides soldiers intercept Harkonnen communications ("Battle language!") seems misplaced in your cut. It comes before the spice mining inspection and does not add, as it does in the TC, to the tension about the impending Harkonnen sneak attack.

- Another small scene that's in the TC, but is in a different spot here, is that of Yueh kneeling and crying. Here it comes after Yueh has sprung the trap, and has already been captured by the Harkonnens, but I don't think his hands are bound. In the TC it seems to be that he's crying about what he's going to do, but in Third Stage, it's because he's already done it. It doesn't seem to make sense, however, that he could get away from the Harkonnens long enough to have this moment alone.

A general comment: I couldn't help but think that Lynch -- or someone who might inherit the task of assembling a studio-led effort at a new, better, and longer cut of this film -- would benefit a lot from watching Third Stage. However, I doubt they would end up with 177 minutes. Your attempts to include as much new material as possible are quite laudable from the fan's perspective, and of course it's easy to overlook the poor quality of some of the footage. It's possible that a professional effort could not overcome this quality issue, but even assuming they could have all the footage in perfect quality, I think they would still leave some of it out.

The scene between Jessica and the Shadout Mapes about the crysknife, for example, just doesn't play that well. From a fan's perspective, I'm glad to see it, but it would be a little difficult for someone who hadn't read the book several times to understand what's going on with the need for the crysknife to draw blood. Linda Hunt just doesn't make her lines completely clear.

In general, I think that most of the film can tolerate being drawn out more; it benefits from the more detailed and epic scope. The Harkonnen sneak attack sequence is an exception. I feel like this is supposed to be shocking and filled with action, and the extra running time (more Yueah, more of Feyd gloating) created a pacing problem for it. It also doesn't help that this is probably the weakest part of the movie anyway (better hand-to-hand fighting would have helped a lot here, instead of Sardukar tossing Atreides troops around).

Those are my thoughts. If you have the time and inclination to respond to the points I raised, that would be really nice. In any case, I'm very grateful to have this cut. I enjoyed the hell out of watching it.