walkingdork

Warbler said:

walkingdork said:

darth_ender said:

Well, much as I enjoy this debate, I don't think I'm going to argue with you if you think that a perfectly fair analogy is crazy without providing any rational reason.  You don't have to like it, but both were/are legal, and yet some people saw/see such as acceptable while others saw/see such as unacceptable.  Nothing crazy about that.  But I think I'm done defending definitions since I feel like I am continually taken out of context (not just by you, mind you).

Comparing the legality of abortion to the legality of genocide during Nazi Germany is the dumbest fucking idea I have ever heard of. So no, I will not be offering much "rational reason" for saying an analogy is crazy.

why was it crazy?  C3PS argued that since abortion is legal and socially acceptable,  I was silly for "getting my panties tangled up" over it.   In Germany, at the time, the Holocaust was also deemed legal and socially acceptable(at least for some Germans, I realize some Germans opposed all the stuff Hitler was doing).    The comparison seems very logical to me.  

America is nothing like Nazi Germany. Abortion is nothing like genocide. What is the question here?

walkingdork said:

Sorry if I'm coming off as snotty.  Not my intention.

I know, I just think you need to step back and realize how ridiculous this conversation has become. This is beyond semantics.

no, I think you need to step back and realize how snotty you are coming off.   

meh

walkingdork said:

EDIT: As for the Bible, I'm not sure if you mean in reference to abortions or just using the term at all.  Frankly, I'm not sure...but searching on the BibleGateway, it appears that the term murderer is used a few times in the KJV, but not just plain murder.  As for the NIV, it gets a bit more usage as both murderer and murder.

Now doing a little research and wasting valuable study time yields some interesting biblical arguments regarding abortion.  One site gave some extremely bizarre and stretched interpretations justifying abortion from the Bible.  Only a few citations could be considered truly worthy of further examination and rebuttal.  However, several other citations support the notion of preserving life.  I'd be interested in discussing that topic further, but I can't get on this site anymore today--too much to do.

some dude in the bible shot one off (ejaculated) into the ground and was immediately put to death by God for wasting his seed. Pretty sure the big man would be against abortion.

Yes, I am betting he would be.   The question at hand isn't whether or not God wants us committing abortions,  the question is whether or not it should be legal.    With Gay Marriage, I also believe that God doesn't want Gays to get married,  but I think it should be legal for them to do so.   They of course, have answer to God for that, but that is between them and God.   The reason I think Gay Marriage should be legal and abortion not, is because I believe that gay marriage hurts no one but possibly the gay couple deciding to get married, however I do believe that abortion hurts someone other than the person deciding to have an abortion.   I believe it hurts the unborn child, hence the difference.   Despite how you want to paint me, I am not some sort of right wing nutcase, trying to force his religion down the throats of others.  

I've never painted you as a right wing anything. I'm not accusing you of anything. Everything I've said is only in response to what Ender is saying. Nothing to do with you I promise.

walkingdork said:

I'm just thankful that the God (who is the same today as he was yesterday (or however that phrase goes)) doesn't continue to kill people for jerking off or using BC.

I am glad that God does not kill people for sinning,  if he did, no one would be here. 

Unless of course the whole idea of God was completely fabricated, but that's a whole 'nother conversation for a different thread.

Warbler said:

walkingdork said:

darth_ender said:

I don't think the comparison to the Holocaust is an invalid one. 

Oh no, it's invald...as well as crazy.

whatever.

Seriously bring this argument up to a stranger and see what they say.

walkingdork said:

 Warbler's argument is not deflated simply because his usage involves what he and I believe is the violation of a higher law than that here on earth.

This is why I'm completely fine with people wanting to discourage people from having abortions. However, higher laws should have no bearing on "earth laws."

higher laws?  do you mean the laws of my religion.   I don't believe in any of my arguments in regards to abortion,  that I have mentioned my beliefs in God or Christ.  

Ender brought up higher laws, not me.

I see absolutely no reason why atheist could not be pro-life.

agreed.

I see no reason why one would need to believe in God to believe that the fetus is a human being that should have the same right to life as you or I and that therefore people shouldn't be allowed to kill it.   What do my religious beliefs have to do with any of this.  

I don't disagree but it turns out most religious people are pro-life not pro-choice. So maybe it has something to do with it, but I'm not about to guess.

Edit: well I could guess, but I won't claim that my guess is correct and others incorrect. My guess is that religious folks have read a bible that puts women in a position that is unequal to me and therefore men have no issue telling women how to make decisions about her body.

If you've read my posts in the political thread, you should know that I am an avid defender of  the concept of separation of church and state.   There are many of the laws of my religion that I would totally object to being part our government's laws.   Did you not see that I was pro gay marriage?    Gays getting married clearly contradict my religious beliefs, but I do not want want my religion's believes forced on everyone.   I think people should be allowed to live how they like as long as they are not hurting anyone else.   I believe abortion does hurt someone else, the unborn baby.   

I know that's how you feel warbler, and I think it's great you can think outside of your religion/upbringing. Again, I did not bring up higher laws.

darth_ender said:

Well, much as I enjoy this debate, I don't think I'm going to argue with you if you think that a perfectly fair analogy is crazy without providing any rational reason.  You don't have to like it, but both were/are legal, and yet some people saw/see such as acceptable while others saw/see such as unacceptable.  Nothing crazy about that.  But I think I'm done defending definitions since I feel like I am continually taken out of context (not just by you, mind you).

Comparing the legality of abortion to the legality of genocide during Nazi Germany is the dumbest fucking idea I have ever heard of. So no, I will not be offering much "rational reason" for saying an analogy is crazy.

Sorry if I'm coming off as snotty.  Not my intention.

I know, I just think you need to step back and realize how ridiculous this conversation has become. This is beyond semantics.

EDIT: As for the Bible, I'm not sure if you mean in reference to abortions or just using the term at all.  Frankly, I'm not sure...but searching on the BibleGateway, it appears that the term murderer is used a few times in the KJV, but not just plain murder.  As for the NIV, it gets a bit more usage as both murderer and murder.

Now doing a little research and wasting valuable study time yields some interesting biblical arguments regarding abortion.  One site gave some extremely bizarre and stretched interpretations justifying abortion from the Bible.  Only a few citations could be considered truly worthy of further examination and rebuttal.  However, several other citations support the notion of preserving life.  I'd be interested in discussing that topic further, but I can't get on this site anymore today--too much to do.

some dude in the bible shot one off (ejaculated) into the ground and was immediately put to death by God for wasting his seed. Pretty sure the big man would be against abortion.

I'm just thankful that the God (who is the same today as he was yesterday (or however that phrase goes)) doesn't continue to kill people for jerking off or using BC.

darth_ender said:

walkingdork said:

darth_ender said:

I don't think the comparison to the Holocaust is an invalid one. 

Oh no, it's invald...as well as crazy.

Oh!  You got me there!  My point crumbles at your logic! ;)

Please quote me fully, and make sure you understand my meaning.  His statement was not that killing a fetus is equivalent to killing a Jew.  His statement is that both are murder, though both are/were legal.  It's a matter of definition.  He may feel the two are equal, but that's not what he was saying in this instance.  He is saying that both were legal killings, but that one can still argue that they are murder in spite of not fitting the official definition.

I read your post and fully understood it. Craziness.

 Warbler's argument is not deflated simply because his usage involves what he and I believe is the violation of a higher law than that here on earth.

This is why I'm completely fine with people wanting to discourage people from having abortions. However, higher laws should have no bearing on "earth laws."

Again, I'm discussing definitions.  Bingowings made a couple of teasing statements about how unfortunate it is when words don't mean what we want them to mean.   I am pointing out that just because he got the word wrong, that does not invalidate his point.  I seem to recall you using the word zygote incorrectly recently.  While I drew attention to that incorrect usage, I wasn't trying to throw out your whole argument based on that little error.  I'm defending Warbler's word usage yet again.  My mention of the higher law is simply to defend the usage of the term 'murder,' though it is technically incorrect.  In his and my mind, it opposes God's law, and is thus 'illegal' in that sense.  But I am not trying to argue that solely based on my interpretation of moral and heavenly law should it be outlawed on earth.  I've enumerated quite a number of philosophical reasons and parallel examples of why it should be illegal.  While to me Heaven's law trumps all other reasons, I understand that when debating with others regarding earthly law, my argument must appeal to other trains of thought.

Does the Bible use the term "murder?" I guess maybe NIV  or some more recent versions might.

Davnes007 said:

Must.......resist.........posting...............pornography.

Have at it, just put cheeseburgers over the naughty bits.

Bingowings said:

Higher laws should go to a higher judge than earthly laws.

That's the problem.

Too many Adams gavelling Mjölnir.

Could not have said it better.

darth_ender said:

I don't think the comparison to the Holocaust is an invalid one. 

Oh no, it's invald...as well as crazy.

 Warbler's argument is not deflated simply because his usage involves what he and I believe is the violation of a higher law than that here on earth.

This is why I'm completely fine with people wanting to discourage people from having abortions. However, higher laws should have no bearing on "earth laws."

I'm starting to think abortion is like hunting...don't kill it unless you plan on eating it.

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

And yes, Bingo has said many times that this is his belief system and has been saying it for years, so I see no reason to doubt he is being earnest.

well, it is sometimes hard for me to know when he is being serious and when he is joking.     He often butts into a serious conversation and posts jokes and nonsense or meanless pics.   He will also often respond with jokes and nonsense and/or meaningless pics when I am posting something serious to him.   So, it is hard for me to take him serious sometimes.

That's why I like Bingo. This isn't a private conversation, it's a public thread on a public forum. Frink's and Bingo's side comments keep the rest of us from taking this conversation so we aren't screaming MURDER!! in an abortion thread.

Bingowings said:

 

My cousin is about 18 months younger than me and his wife is the same age as my mother (who someone once thought was my wife).

They are as unhappy as any married/unmarried couple I know so who cares?

A sixteen year old is not a child.

If they can vote, get married and go to war etc then they can diddle and be diddled by muppeters.

Going by Elmo's voice I imagine the younger chap was 'bowling'.

 

in the US 16 year olds cant marry, vote, or any of those things. Ithey can just drive (and there some driving restrictions as well). I do agree that men dating much younger women is more excepted then a similar age gap between two men, I would call both situations very odd. Its one thing to be in your early 20s and in a relationship with a teenager but quite another to be 30s and with a teenager. Still you and I agree that should not be illegal  especially if its a long term relationship.

bkev said:

There's more than just Texas.

Probably most states have some sort of petition on there. It's not a shock that the Southern states have the most signatures.

I say let'em. It'll be funny to watch when they realize that moonshine and meth labs don't make a good economy. It would also attract all the hillbillies from the remaining states. Take your country music and go. :P

Questions: Would the South be too proud to accept monetary assistance every hurricane season? Would Republicans be forced to move closer to the middle knowing they would not win another presidential election or a majority in the House or Senate without the Southern states? Would the remaining United States allow them to create a large military?

Bingowings said:

It's only remotely pervy if you think being gay is pervy, I know there are a few oddballs on here but I don't think Warb's one of them.

I think it's remotely pervy because of the huge age gap. I have no issues with gays or lesbians.

Seems nowadays I have nearly as many gay/lesbian friends as straight friends. Not because I'm just so super cool but because Fond du Lac, WI is pretty white trash so liberals make up a small part of the city and we all flock together.

SilverWook said:

The recovery option is there. If I roll it back to factory specs, won't I be stuck downloading every XP update and patch that's come down the pike? Had to spend a couple hours updating the old tower PC that had been sitting idle for several months. I don't even want to think how long six years of updates would take!

It wouldn't take long (few hours at most). However if you manage to find (not buy) a windows disc it would be more up to date.

There's a "Windows Vista Compatible" sticker on the case. Maybe I could upgrade?

Dear God no! If you want to upgrade, upgrade to Windows 7. Vista was complete garbage a bit of a resource hog. If your PC can handle Vista it will handle Win7 just as well.

Again, I can point you in the right direction if you want a cheaper *cough, cough free* option than buying a disc. ;)

Warbler said:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2012/11/12/voice-of-elmo-denies-allegations-of-sex-with-underage-boy/

*sigh*   My niece loves Elmo.    : (

Meh. It was a 7 year relationship and even if they guy was was just 16 or 17 he's at the age of consent in my mind (after all we send men of that age to prison for life all the time). If you are old enough to be tried as an adult you're old enough to decide to have sex. This guy had nothing to complain about for 7 years and now he wants to be famous. :(

Elmo's proctologist may be a little pervy, but hopefully these allegations aren't true and he doesn't go to prison.

All caught up and I deleted a bunch of messages so my inbox doesnt get full again. Ill be around all week for those who need invites.

Tyrphanax said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Obama is Mitt, Mitt is Obama.

that's bs.  Obama and Romney are very different people. 

This is true.

I always find the "both parties are the same, man" line to be silly. Just because things don't change drastically (generally) from President to President doesn't mean that every President is the same as the last.

http://videosift.com/video/Futurama-Presidential-Debate

Jack Johnson vs John Jackson

I drank way too much last night. I have a female friend who is rather large (not my thing) who is always jokingly flirting with me. Last night she sent me some rather disturbing nude photos of herself while I was half in the bag (at only 8PM mind you). Apparently at one point texted me to hear how I felt about the photos and I sort of cheered her on about it in a joking manner.

Today she told me she broke up with her boyfriend and wondered when we could hook up or at least when I would reciprocate and send photos of myself. I laughed and said, "haha, we've talked about this before. Not going to happen." She then seemed frustrated and told me that it was not the feeling she was getting last night. I looked at my texting history and was horrified to see I was flirting back (albeit in a joking manner but it was not received that way). Thank God she lives in another state now or she'd be knocking on my door.

She didn't get upset and agreed that I was pretty wasted while talking to her directly on the phone and that my texts were missing words and some sentences didn't make sense at all.

Still, after being hungover all day, I think I need to tone down the drinking. Problem is I only get to go out once or twice a month and when I do, I just get destroyed. Hopefully I can start smoking weed again soon.

Warbler said:

Its too bad Ferris is awol,  I would love to his reaction to what Tyrphanax wrote.   I'd love to see the two of them debate the Civil War. 

Good point, Ferris loves rewriting history for the sake of his Teabagger silliness.

If you feel like the problem is over heating, find instructions to open your laptop and clean the dust out. My laptop is 6 year old and is only in use when it's sitting on my lap, so to keep it running I open it up from time to time and remove all the blue jean lint that it collects.

I would agree with those who say reinstall Windows. Delete the partition and start over.

It's illegal to not give you a windows disc. You paid for it, you should have the disc. Of course places like Best Buy who don't give you the disc will happily reinstall windows for you at a hefty labor price. If you need a disc, I would be happy to point you in the right direction for finding one online.

Using Ubuntu is a great idea as well. It's free, easy on resources, and is the easiest Linux based OS to use if you are used to Windows. Oh, and fuck Apple products, Mac is Whack.

Are you guys talking about babies or vaginas?

Because vaginas get better after a few months. Better but not the same.

Just caught up and apparently everyone disagrees with me so let be more clear. The South may have wanted to succeed to protect slavery, but Lincoln and The North went to ware to keep the South in the Union.

Ugh, I'm 3 pages behind :(

Warb, don't know if it has been brought to your attention yet (I'm only on page 2) but states like Missouri were allowed to keep their slaves during most of The Civil War well after slavery was abolished for Southern states.

The Civil War and nothing to do with slavery and everything to do with keeping the South in the Union.

hmmm

oh noes!

generalfrevious said:

There is nothing I can do. And now you are asking me to look up psychos on Craigslist?

It would be doing something. Meet the psychos before moving in with them.