I’ve finally gotten through version 2 of this edit and wanted to share my full feedback. The bottom line is that this is much improved over both the series and version 1. Well done, Angolan!
For clarity, the feedback is organized chronologically as follows:
- Original comment from version 1
++ Follow-up or additional comment from version 2
As before, the feedback in broken into two sections (Intro - Storm / Numenor - End).
Introduction
- I don’t love the new text introducing the second age. It seems too on-the-nose, especially if the films are viewed chronologically.
++ The intro text still isn’t my favorite, as it builds in an assumed reference frame of the later stories/events. I understand why you did it, but it’s not my favorite choice.
- The transition from the paper boat to Finrod is abrupt. Is that the best line to enter on? Could music smooth the transition more?
++ Your new transition is much better. I think that the audio might be able to be smoothed even more, but I think this is close to a perfect bridge from the boat to the conversation w Finrod.
- I still don’t love Finrod’s advice and would like to see the whisper removed so that we instead get his follow-up response of “You must learn to discern for yourself.” Why is Finrod expecting to not always be there? I don’t understand why that line exists and think it undermines the whole no-death paradise vibe of Valinor.
++ I’m still not entirely sold on the inclusion of this line or his advice within the “paradise” context, but I also understand that you don’t want to cut too much from the conversation. I’m not sure what is gained by removing her question. In my own edit draft, I borrowed from Crossfader’s intro that cuts the entire conversation, but then I tried to reframe Finrod’s words later to have been spoken when they were deciding to hunt Morgoth in Middle Earth (so that the advice reflects the fall of the Elves, not their original life in paradise).
- Could we trim the line about the symbol being one that “even our wisest couldn’t discern?” Just cut it after she says that Sauron marked his flesh.
++ Consider cutting the line about marking his flesh too. It’s visually obvious that it happened, and I think it’s more powerful if you go from “but Sauron found him first. And there, in the darkness, his vow became mine.”
- I had a lot of mixed feelings about the frozen fortress sequence, but I suspect that the important parts will be revisited eventually in season 2. I think your cut and transition is perfect. It keeps ends the prologue with a similar tone to Fellowship and tells us everything we need to know.
++ I still think that this is the perfect transition from prologue to story.
++ Excellent choice of title graphic. It closely mirrors the title screens of the Jackson trilogy, tying the cinematic universe together.
++ While it’s not a big issue, the Elrond intro scene can work without the random racist rejection by the council. She can simply say that his friend is here.
++ Were you thinking of adding a white LOTR chapter title somewhere in this scene, like we see in Fellowship etc? Maybe something like “The Shadow of the Past?”
- The Elrond and Galadriel scene is much better without the ice scenes. It now introduces the characters fully and gives us new information about what Galadriel has been doing.
++ It’s kind of odd that Galadriel says “and no army” but then is seen kneeling alongside her fellow soldiers.
++ I like the amount of uninterrupted time we spend in Lindon. Im not sure that the final Elrond line about wanting to hear about her journey is the best transition line into the ceremony. Maybe the line before about time enough later to discuss official matters” or “must you leave again so soon?”
- The transition to the Southlands feels like an abrupt cutoff of the Lindon sequence. I’d like more time there before moving on. This was a major issue for me with the series too, especially early on, too many skips between plot threads in close proximity. And then this sequence too is over almost as soon as it starts and we’re back to Lindon. It leaves me almost dizzy and not feeling invested in either story.
++ Much better. I also love the transition from the announcement that the guards are leaving to the fireworks celebrating the same thing in Lindon.
- To show the passage of time between the ceremony and the night, would it be better to move up part of Gil Galad and Elrond’s conversation about Galadriel? I realize that this might also require scrapping the initial intro of Celebrimor or using part of this scene later (or as a voiceover?).
++ What you have now works well.
- The jumping back and forth continues to bug me. There seems to be no good point at which to introduce the Southlands story.
++ What you have now works well. Both parts have room to breathe, even while still going back and forth. It’s not that different in pacing from the Jackson films.
- The reduction of Arondir and Bronwyn at her house works well. It doesn’t remove their relationship, but it implies that he is officially there on business.
++ Your abbreviated well scene and the conversation with the other guard work very well alongside the house and cow scene to imply the romance without making it as over the top as the original did. It’s understated and nicely so. It’s a little odd how clueless Theo seems about it when he asks why “one of them is here,” but that’s my only minor complaint.
++ Why are Theo and his friend running to the barn when that whole scene is cut?
- More jumping back and forth, sort of implying the passage of time and sort of not.
++ I’m not entirely sure about the timing of these events between the two story threads, but nothing jumps out as strange anymore. I think everything up to this point in your edit works very well.
++ I’m not sure why we went back to the boat before going to Eregion. I think it might work just as well to do the Eregion scene and then go back to Galadriel. Also, does this need to be in Eregion or could you imply that they are still talking about this in Lindon after GilGalad introduced them?
++ I feel like Arondir got to Horden too quickly and that their arrival scene is too short to stand alone. Again, I’d consider using Celebrimbor, then the boat up through the Stranger’s arrival. Go to Horden from there (still at night).
- I wish that the leaf falling and Gil Galad picking it up was earlier, like at the night of the farewell party. That way we’d get it clearly as part of his thinking that he explains to Elrond.
++ What you have works well.
- Musically the arrival of the Stranger is linked to Galadriel jumping off the boat, but I’m not sure that it really serves her story to break away like that. In keeping with my prior point, what if we had the ceremony, Gil Galad taking w Elrond, the fireworks, Elrond talking w Galadriel, then Gil Galad and the leaf, followed by the meteor that same night? We could then break away to the Harfoot story while we allow the boat time to cross the sea.
++ What you have works well.
- The introduction of the Harfoots with Nori seeing the meteor and then she and Poppy approaching the Stranger works surprisingly well. It doesn’t feel like much background is missing.
++ Yes, again I’m struck by how natural this feels as the introduction of this plotline. Don’t get me wrong, I like the missing Harfoot scenes, but this is very good.
- Why is there a location map shot in the transition from Nori to Nori and Poppy wheeling the Stranger away? It breaks the momentum and makes me think that we’re changing story threads again.
++ This is no longer an issue.
- Consider the number of day night transitions in the Southlands story. Arondir and Bronwyn leave in the day, arrive late in the day at the destroyed village, watch the meteor, scout the village at night, and then she runs back to town in day, while Theo tends a fire indoors (in day?), she arrives at the tavern in day, fights the Orc in day, tells the people at the tavern about it at night, and then packs to leave the next morning? The time passage here is a problem in the original, but it’d be worth trying to smooth out where possible.
++ This no longer feels like an issue.
++ Don’t break up the meteor impact scene to show Galadriel swimming. Put her swimming right after the leaf, and combine the Nori meeting the Stranger stuff into a longer unbroken sequence.
++ Perfect transition from Nori and Stranger to Horden. You don’t need to show Arondir and Bronwyn’s approach earlier at dusk. There’s enough exposition here to explain. You saw them head out from her house, you saw them watch the meteor, and now that explain what they found in the village.
++ I think that the transition back to Bronwyn’s village works, but it clearly represents a time jump. What doesn’t work is that you then jump back to Arondir exploring the tunnels. The implication is that he’s been exploring them for an entire day’s travel time! I’d reverse those two sequences. Finish exploring the tunnels, maybe even go back to Galadriel, then return to Bronwyn at her village.
- I’m not sure it works to shorten Arondir’s trip through the tunnels, especially skipping the part where he enters the water.
++ This works better now. It’s just the scene order that remains an issue.
- The abbreviated raft sequence works well, though without the racism and disinterest in working with Galadriel, it makes her abandonment of the other people seem pretty cold.
++ This works better now I think. It feels faster paced, and it seems more like she couldn’t help what happened. I think it’s possible to cut this entire sub-segment and have her simply meet Halbrand alone, but if you want to keep the sea serpent, this works.
- I understand the desire to tighten the Orc in house fight, but it seems like parts are clearly missing. People change position too quickly multiple times. It’s very noticeable.
++ I don’t think it makes sense to cut Bronwyn getting into the closet to hide. Skipping that also skips the more natural reveal that Theo is hiding too.
++ The fight is a little more smooth now, but I still think it a bit too short and maybe a bit too rushed to clearly follow. I understand that you want to imply the presence of the magic hilt, and that doing that complicates things.
- The onset of the storm is too sudden. Even though the original had an overly quick transition, this comes out of nowhere and feels like something is missing. I’d say cut the whole storm sequence except that it’s used to very good effect in the finale with her sinking and Halbrand not saving her. Im guessing that there would be issues doing this cohesively, but would it be possible to skip the sea monster and imply that Galadriel is sinking on her own, then is rescued by Halbrand and his raft?
++ The transition to the storm from the fight with the orc works pretty well. I’d say maybe add the shot of the storm approaching to the end of the prior Halbrand and Galadriel scene though.
- Again, I see that you’re trying to cut the fat, but there are too many questions in this edit about why Theo has that sword hilt. You need the earlier scene, maybe even in place of this one, to introduce it.
++ I understand better what you are going for in this version of the edit. I think it’d be even more clear if you could show a closeup of an Orc hand holding the hilt right after the flashback shot of the orc himself. I’m not sure if such a shot exists though or if one could be created. It would connect the dots though.
- The scene where the Numenorean ship finds Galadriel and Halbrand is very short and seems disconnected from the scenes around it.
++ It still feels strange going from the storm to Bronwyn to the ship then back to Theo packing so quickly. Maybe put the boat right after the storm, then Bronwyn and immediately to Theo.
Summary of Thoughts So Far
- Taking this roughly 9 hour season and turning it into a 3 hour movie is an ambitious project. You’ve done a good job weeding through the content to pull out the most important parts. Your decision to skip the ice fortress worked very well, but not every omission was that clean. You’ve lost some of the connective tissue that is needed in order for some moments to make sense.
++ I’m no longer missing any connective tissue. This first part of your edit holds together very nicely.
- You set out to make Galadriel less antagonistic and more dignified. I think you’ve succeeded this far.
++ I still think that you’ve made excellent choices for line trims that improve her characterization.
- One of the biggest challenges in any adaption of this content is the juggling of so many plot threads. Here, as in the series, I find that the story often jumps too frequently snd dramatically for me to follow or fully invest in the characters and events. At the same time, I understand that separating the threads out can lead to awkwardly long amounts of time away. Some of that could be managed if the cutaways were to happen during travel, like while Galadriel is en route to Valinor or while the Numenoreans are sailing to Middle Earth.
++ With a few minor exceptions (noted above), this is no longer an issue. The pacing is solid, giving the viewer a feel for each plot thread each time it shows up.
++ I’d consider again removing the sea serpent. There’s a lot of action in that part of the movie, between the destruction of the raft, the orc attacks, and the storm at sea. The storm needs to stand out as important, especially in light of how it is later used. Right now, it blends into those other action beats and doesn’t even seem as important as the rest of them.
++ The pacing is vastly improved over the series and your first work print. With a couple of exceptions (approaching Horden, the tiny boat scene ahead of Eregion), the initial approach to Horden, Bronwyn’s return to her village, and the arrival of the Numenorean ship), I don’t notice anything feeling awkward as you juggle these plot threads.
++ I like the Harfoot stuff more than you, but by placing the emphasis on Galadriel and the Southlands as the two core plotlines, and by transitioning them in the exact places you have, you do an excellent job of highlighting the hints of danger in the midst of declared peace. I think this is likely what the show runners intended, but you have distilled it into a clear and unforced dance of those two plots. Excellent work. It’s enough to make me reconsider wanting the Harfoots to get in the way of that.
++ Bottom line is that this first part of the edit is now very strong and the first 30 minutes almost flawless! Well done.
Numenor through End
- You made a series of good cuts to remove the rock-breaking. It works well.
++ This is still true, but the sequence as a whole feels a bit disjointed now due to the number of times you cut away to other scenes. This reminds me of the the Lindon/Southlands stuff felt in version 1.
- There’s an abrupt transition when Poppy approaches the Stranger as he’s eating snails. I understand the cut but it’s noticeable.
++ This is still true. I understand that it’s important for him to him to learn the word “friend,” but otherwise, the whole part with Poppy and Nori’s father being injured seems irrelevant to the edit you’ve made.
++ I’m not sure why you’re going back to the night scene w Nori and Poppy. It fits much better right after they find him, especially the last line about wondering what he’ll eat. In the edit, Nori just shared Harfoot food with him.
++ The Numenor arrival sequence feels a bit diminished by being split up around the Elrond and Durin stuff. If you want to split this part, I’d suggest a break between them walking through the city and entering the royal court.
- Since we saw Elendil with Galadriel’s dagger on the ship, it’s strange to have lost the rather awkward scene where it is returned by Halbrand. Could we lose the shot where Elendil has it to start with?
++ Fixed and very seamless.
++ Good job trimming down the dialogue in the royal court. All the main points are kept, but it’s super concise now. Well done.
++ The added shots of Isildor when he’s mentioned work well, but then showing the shore and nothing afterward and then the tree and then jumping away from Numenor feels very disjointed. Maybe go from the shots of Isildor to the currently cut talk between Isildor and Miriel.
++ Why did you show the chain gang in the tunnel earlier if you then cut to Arondir talking to Adar and being set free? You could jump straight from “For Adar” to Adar coming to talk with him. No other prisoners shown or mentioned.
- I’m not completely sold on the sequencing with Adar and Theo but you intercut those scenes very well.
++ Still. Maybe examine the exact in and out points for the shots. The most awkward one to me is that Theo is still on the path looking at the village in the start of his second scene instead of wheeling through the village to imply the slight passage of time.
++ I like the logic of the Orcs looking for the hilt in the village because that’s where the other Orc lost it.
- Is it important for Adar to spell out that the people are in the old watchtower? That’s a very recent development and in this compressed version, I’m not sure that he should know that yet. Could he just say that he wants Arondir to deliver a message for him? If you can make that change, you have more options for how you order these Southlands scenes.
++ This works now. All the preceding scenes are spaced better to lead up to the watchtower being a known thing.
- I miss the conversation between Elendil and the Queen about his name.
++ Still. It also would have set up him being assigned to watch Galadriel ahead of her running away.
++ The transition from Bronwyn and Theon’s friend to him sneaking through the village at night works very well. I wish there was an indicator of the shift toward night though, even an establishing shot of the watchtower at dusk (not sure that one exists).
- I love what you did changing the Plea to the Rocks into resonating and intercutting it with the reveal of the Mithril. It’s a very nice way to tighten that plotline.
++ I continue to think that your version of the Mithril reveal using Disa’s song as resonating is the best possible edit. It’s clear, concise, and rooted in what they already told us about their mining. I only wish it came sooner after the dinner scene.
- I miss more of the Harfoots’ “We wait for you” call and response.
++ I’m warming to your shortened version of the Harfoot ceremony.
- By cutting so many of the Harfoot scenes we again are losing some plot information. Where did the Stranger get that paper with the constellation?
++ I guess in your version, it’s not clear that the Stranger was looking for anything besides Nori herself, no star charts being mentioned or retrieved. I think that can work, but it causes later confusion when the star chart shows up again with Saddoc and when the mystics reference the constellation on their shield.
- I like how you kept the Harfoot question of what to do about Nori and the Stranger but trimmed the whole thing about being deliberately put at the back of the train.
++ Still an excellent trim that rather saves the Harfoot image overall.
- It’s an interesting move to have Halbrand get in a fight and be jailed almost entirely offscreen. It feels rushed, but I also understand why you didn’t like that sequence.
++ I like what you have, but I think it could use the first part of the bar scene for added context, the part before Halbrand switches into “friendly” mode and orders drinks.
- So why does Galadriel ride that far to the Hall of Lore in this edit? I know that she needs to discover Halbrand’s crest, but that’s incidental. It almost would make more sense to assume that the Hall of Lore is right there in the city and that Elendil stopped by there with her.
++ I think it was a good choice to cut the whole ride and library part, though I did like parts of the library sequence. This keeps the story moving and loses very little.
++ Why are you showing an establishing shot of Numenor at night, then cutting to Adar? Is the Adar scene even useful? We know from his message to Arondir that he already plans to attack the tower. We know from the village scene that the Orcs want the hilt. Instead, go straight to the Arondir and Bronwyn conversation.
- I like what you have done to cut Galadriel’s arrest and bridge directly to Tar Palantir, though I wonder how this might change in your new version. I’m very interested to see your further revision of the Numenor plotline with the palantir revealing the danger to the Southlands.
++ Good job with this. Maybe even use a bit longer sequence for Galadriel’s vision.
++ I’m not sure you need to visit Muriel’s father or establish that it’s somehow now night already. Instead, go straight from Miriel telling Galadriel that she doesn’t understand to the Palantir. The dark room can simply be implied to be somewhere deep in the palace interior.
- The cut from Miriel to Galadriel boarding the ship alone is good, but it might be more smooth if “I’m sorry” was heard over the start of the new scene.
++ Well done and very smooth transition.
- I think the scene break between Galadriel boarding the boat and Miriel turning back with the petals hurts the pacing and emotion of the sequence. It’s weird to come back moments after we left, with the boat barely away from the dock.
++ This is now better. I do think that you lose something in the petal scene by not having the earlier conversation between Miriel and Elendil though.
- I really like the Numenor montage. It flows well and skips all the distractions. That said, I miss the conversation between Pharazon and his son about helping the Elves in order to advance their nation’s power overseas. I understand that the son isn’t part of your edit at all though.
++ Same thoughts. You have a really good montage that covers a lot of territory very quickly but feels natural.
- I do like the transition from departing Numenor to the establishing shot for the dinner in Lindon. It’s a change from one seat of power and politics to another and they pair well.
++ I do miss this transition, but I understand the struggle of juggling scenes and plotlines.
- The Harfoot migration scene where the Stranger helps pull the cart is extremely short and feels disjointed; some type of transition into the migration is needed. Maybe a montage at the end of the prior Harfoot part of the start of the next?
++ This is better but still a little awkward. Maybe cut the part w the Stranger helping pull the cart to start with and instead go straight into the montage and blend into the next Harfoot scene.
- I like the cut of Bronwyn’s rousing speech. I don’t hate her being in charge, but like you, I don’t understand how that came to be or why people would just accept her authority at this point.
++ This seems even better in this version. I’m not sure how far this scene should be separated from the previous Southlands one, but I like the entry point of “Stand and fight???” with an implied proposal to do that having just happened off scene.
- Regarding the Mithril origin myth, it’s clear in rewatching the scene that you could easily remove the Silmaril connection. Go from “but over a tree” to “On one side…” The assumption would be that the elf simply poured his immortal essence into the tree, similar to Arwen for Frodo in the Fellowship film. The combination of events crystallized snd captured that essence so that it can be given back to the Elves as needed. This would also make their claim on the Mithril stronger, because it is essentially part of them that they want returned. Note that you’d also need to cut GilGalad’s later line after “They found it,” removing “the ore containing the light of the Silmaril.”
++ Same thoughts.
++ Interesting choice to add a musical cue from Shore’s one-ring theme. I’m curious why and if it will show up elsewhere in your edit.
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I miss the scenes with Durin and his dad.
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I miss the rest of the scene where the Southlandsts pledge to Adar, but it’s not a great loss. A far greater loss, I miss Adar planting his seeds. That scene, and its parallel later with Arondir, was excellent world building (though I’d have preferred Bronwyn not somehow magically say the same words that Adar did).
++ I still miss the seed planting. It’s a personal favorite moment in the entire series.
- It’s not impossible to figure out, but I think the collapse of the tower makes less sense without the prior scene in which Arondir gets the idea of bringing it down.
++ Still true, but it works pretty well as is.
- It’s strange to get no explanation of the grove’s destruction, but I understand why it wouldn’t make sense here (no volcano yet). Would it work to just have it be fruitful to begin with, and keep your suggestion that the Stranger is simply being sent on because this is the end of the road for the Harfoots?
++ Much improved. Maybe fewer cuts to the river, but otherwise quite smooth. The only other issue I would raise is the reappearance of the star charts and the conversation that makes clear the Stranger was looking for them, when that hasn’t been clear in this edit up to this point.
- I miss the Wandering Day song and montage.
++ I think the song can work well as end-credits music if you want something lighter than the ring verse. I like that you found a place for some of the montage.
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I appreciate that you never mention the number of ships, troops, or horses.
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The cold interaction between Isildor and his father is less impactful and slightly odd if you don’t know that Elendil originally denied him a place on the expedition. I suppose that we are supposed to remember their dinner argument, but it’s been a while without any follow up.
++ This could be a stronger scene if you made other choices back in Numenor, but I think the trade off you chose works well.
- You again do a very good job trimming down the Mithril negotiations and conflict to a bare minimum that still makes sense. I do miss more Durin though, and I miss Elrond talking about his own father.
++ Again I feel like this is a very strong sequence, compressing a lot in a way that feels natural. I almost think that you could skip the part with the leaf and where they mine illegally, especially since you cut the scene with Durin and his father that is kind of the heart of that later sequence.
- The edit still has the issue of the Southlands siege running ahead of the Numenor plotline. The villagers are preparing for the attack that night while the ships are sighting Middle Earth and we are being told that they have roughly two days’ journey still ahead of them.
++ This problem is less obvious in this version because you cut out the estimates about Numenor’s travel and arrival times. It still is an issue if you think too much, but that’s very hard to avoid.
++ Your transition from Arondir and Bronwyn with the seeds to the start of the battle is excellent.
- The slightly abbreviated Southlands night battle works well. If anything, I suggest maybe putting back a tiny bit more lead-in for thinking the fight is done and discovering the dead humans among the Orcs.
++ Still. There isn’t enough fake victory to appreciate the enemy’s trick.
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The abbreviated surgery scene works well too, more matter of fact and less melodramatic than the original.
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I’m not sure that anything is helped by the dramatic cavalry charge across the field. It reminds the viewer of Rohan but falls short if that, while also showing too large a force for what we’ve seen so far, and drawing further attention to the time mismatch between their arrival and the battle.
++ This is better. I’d still love to someday mask out some of the horse-stream in the background, but I don’t think that VFX is a current priority.
- The blade suddenly showing up again and being important feels very sudden. Is there a way to include more lead up with hiding it without restoring too much cheesiness?
++ I think this does work. Theo showed it to Arondir before the first battle and now we see that both of them know what happened to it (hiding it under the floorboards).
- It feels like connective tissue is missing from the arrival of the Numenoreans, like Arondir being able to get outside again with the tavern occupants safe.
++ This almost feels natural, but something is still very slightly off about the transitions between what’s happening inside and outside the tavern.
- Good job cutting the stable boy stuff throughout and just letting Isildor get in there with everyone else.
++ Still well done
- We need more of Adar and Halbrand in the woods, just those couple more lines to build up the mystery of their connection. Otherwise Adar’s “Who are you?” In the barn falls flat.
++ Better
- The mystics need their initial introduction and maybe at least one other appearance to build them up as a threat. Here, they come out of absolutely nowhere and it’s confusing. Also, you very suddenly go from one to three of them.
++ I still think this is true. It also feels like it’s been a long while since the Stranger left, maybe too long.
++ I’m not sure anything is gained by the short scene w Isildor and the other soldier before the interrogation. It mostly draws attention to the fact that we don’t really know the other soldier, even though Isildor seems to. Just show the prisoners etc, then the interrogation.
- I appreciate the effort to make Galadriel more stable, but the full depth of her rage at Adar is paid off in his assessment of her as Sauron’s successor. Without that build up, the line and resolution of her journey comes up flat.
++ This is better, but it still feels like some of the conversation/build up is missing.
++ Again it feels like too long since we’ve seen Elrond and Durin. (I understand that juggling between these final payoff scenes is really challenging.)
++ Just brainstorming, but you might be able to strengthen the meaning/relevance of the Harfoot story if you intercut the mystics telling the Stranger he is Sauron with Adar’s account of having killed Sauron, or if you intercut it with the magic sword setting off the volcano, making it seem as if the Stranger awakening is somehow connected to the eruption.
- Having Galadriel’s vision take place in the aftermath of the eruption is very interesting and could become one of the most unique aspects of this edit long-term. That said, I’m not sure that it will work long term changing the forging that much. More discussion of that later.
++ Much better execution of the vision. I still have a couple of suggestions though. First, don’t have the Adar scene in the middle, because it raises questions about where Galadriel is during his scene. Second, don’t show the raft in this first vision; just have the voice shift to Halbrand’s voice as she wakes up and calls to him. It’s still there but more subtle.
++ Take the refugees marching out of the vision intercut and move them to the spot right after Galadriel tells Theo that the Orcs did this to create a home. That march can then transition more naturally via a type of montage into the refugee camp. You may also want to include the part where Miriel discovers that she is blind and Elendil discovers that Isildor is missing.
++ I do miss some of the Theo and Galadriel conversation, but I also understand why you wanted to skip past it to keep things moving.
- Once again, too many missing pieces. Why are the Harfoots looking for the Stranger? Why is he tied up? What in the world is going on?
++ This is improved by the added scenes, but the Harfoot arc is still weak because we never see the Stranger doing anything to earn any of the people’s trust, besides maybe Nori’s immediate family.
++ We also need some hint of the Harfoots arriving on the scene and the mystics noticing. Otherwise it all seems like a very random and convenient setup on the part of the mystics.
- Without the mystics burning the carts, their menace with the fire is significantly lessened.
++ Still true, but I don’t feel like this matters very much.
- Without the wizard duel, where does the Stranger get the staff? Not a glaring plot hole, but it’s a minor continuity issue.
++ The whole fight seems very disjointed, like things happen but with zero connection between the shots.
- Having cut the mystics paying homage to the Stranger, their dialogue about him not being Sauron makes no sense.
++ This is better simply by including that earlier line and the scene where they describe his powers.
++ The line “I’m good” does come off as pretty cheesy, even if it’s earned. You could probably cut the mystics off with his staff light instead of with his dialogue.
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You may want to remove Halbrand/Sauron’s line about what she told him “after the battle,” since you cut that scene. I would actually suggest maybe restoring the scene, since it helps build Halbrand’s identity and his offer to Galadriel to join him, which is part of your edit. This leads to the next point…
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You cut so much of the Halbrand content both in Numenor and Eregion that the reveal of him as Sauron comes out of nowhere and at a very random spot.
++ This works better due to having more of his interaction with Adar and your new version of the first vision where we get a slight hint of him being connected.
- I like the in and out use of the flaming horse etc in the vision sequence. They add to the surrealism in a greater way than they did in the original.
++ No flaming horse in the first vision now?
- How in the world did Galadriel get found by Elrond? It’s almost as if the entire end sequence has turned into 2001 A Space Odyssey. I have no idea what is real. What if she woke from the vision in the village, met Theo, reunited at the camp, and played out events as normal. Instead of being the culmination, the vision becomes a way to introduce her suspicions about Halbrand. Maybe split it into two visions, the one at the village and another in Eregion?
++ This is much more clear now, and the visions still retain a more surreal quality than they did in the series. Well done.
- The link between Mithril and the idea of the rings has been entirely lost in this edit. As a result, we have no idea why they are making rings.
++ This works pretty well now and feels complete even without any of the alloy talk. I would consider adding back the talk about a crown ahead of its mention by Halbrand at the riverbank.
++ I really like the way Galadriel just looked up the Southlands lineage herself. It works better for her character and nothing seems missing.
++ I like how the second vision starts with a quick flash of the first, clearly linking them. I’m not so sure about the repeat of the forge shot and the line about many names. I really like the interspersing of shots while she’s sinking; maybe that would be a better place to reuse the forge shot as well.
- The emotion of the Harfoot goodbyes seems barely earned based on their abbreviated appearances and lessened adventure. Sadoc’s death may have seemed arbitrary, but without it or the burning of the wagons, their adventure is entirely without cost.
++ This story works slightly better than in your first draft, but it’s still by far the weakest plotline, and that is (not) felt emotionally here at its conclusion.
++ If you want to reduce the obvious Gandalf-isms, you could cut to Nori’s smile when the Stranger says there’s a sweet smell on the breeze, trimming out the rest of his line.
- Why does Elrond know about Halbrand?
++ Fixed
- Because Halbrand is not in Eregion, there is no clear connection between him and the idea of or forging of the rings. Unless season 2 makes it clear that he was previously there in another form, the entire basis of the story is cut off here.
++ Fixed
- Why is Elrond running during the forging in this edit? We are left with the impression that Halbrand (maybe Sauron but that’s not entirely clear in this edit due to the surrealism of the vision) is actually the king of the Southlands, whatever that means.
++ All of these issues have been fixed.
++ I’m not sure about Galadriel giving the dagger ahead of the line where Celebrimbor says that he needs metal from Valinor, but other than that, this sequence is excellent. I love how Galadriel and Elrond are implied to be more a part of the conversation/decision. I also really like how the eye shows up in the molten metal right after Galadriel says that these rings must be for Elves alone and untouched by anyone else. Perfect moment.
- I enjoyed the incorporation of the LOTR music, but I’m not entirely sure about the pairing of the Nazgûl theme the creation of Mordor (no Nazgûl yet) or the one ring with Sauron who so far has no connection to any rings at all.
++ I’m still not sold on using the Nazgûl theme, but the blending in of Shore’s ring theme at the end of the forging works really well as a way to tie the cinematic universe together. The only thing I struggle with in the choice is that I actually really love McCreary’s new ring theme based on the poem and it’s hard to differentiate moments where each theme should be given a chance to shine.
- I know that you said you were reworking the ending, and I’m interested to see what you do. I don’t think it’s there yet. Even knowing the original, I got very confused by the mystics and the Eregion stuff. If you showed this to a new casual viewer, I think that the result really would be like 2001, lots of viewer confusion and talk of drug trips.
++ This is mostly fixed. The only issues of this kind remaining are with the Harfoots.
- In summary, I think that your first act is good but jumps too much (which you’ve been working on). Your second act is the strongest with some excellent transitions and much tighter (but not rushed) pacing. Your third act has a lot of potential, especially the use of a vision at the time of eruption, but in its current form there is far too much left ambiguous or unexplained. We need to feel something about Halbrand and about the resolution of the Stranger. Right now, I don’t think we do.
++ In your new version, the entire film is pretty solid, through the early dwarf stuff is a bit disjointed. Certain parts feel absolutely perfect (the first 30 minutes, the mithril reveal, the departure from Numenor, the visions, the forging of the rings). I’d love it if that feeling was consistent over even more stretches of this content. I think what really makes those parts shine is the close connection of themes between plot threads and the blending of montage visuals and music at key moments.
- Once again, I must congratulate you on the ambition of this project and for being the pioneer who first attempted an edit of this content. Even in its current form, there’s a lot to like and to inspire further work. If you continue to refine this, I think that it could indeed become a go-to edit for people wanting the story in a single-movie form.
++ This is now a nearly perfect rendering of the original adapted and distilled into a movie format. The thematic connections you draw out between plotlines (especially in the first third) seem to perfectly capture what I can only assume the writers were aiming for but were unable to pull off. I also really like your use of the visions at the volcano and in Eregion. They complement each other and create mystery by being separated, while also dropping some decent clues.
++ I do think that you could strengthen the connections between plotlines even further, especially in the climax with the eruption and the Stranger being maybe Sauron.
++ The weakest point overall in this edit is the Harfoot plotline. Through uneven development, undefined arcs, and a disjointed final battle, they seem like an afterthought just barely too relevant to be cut. In my viewing of this edit, other edits, the original series, and my own editing, I think that there are essentially two possible takes on this content within a movie format - one that emphasizes the Southlands throughout along with the theme of rising evil in the corners where nobody is looking, and one that centers the Harfoots as the emotional heart of the world. I haven’t seen anyone cut one or the other entirely, but Crossfader’s edit comes close to removing the Harfoots, as does yours. Crossfader previously experimented with splitting the stories to put the Harfoots entirely in the first half and the Southlands entirely in the second but that keeps the Southlands from growing alongside the Lindon stuff at the beginning, which you join so well. For my own edit, I’ve kept the Harfoots going throughout, but I’ve held the Southlands off until the middle of the story so that they don’t split audience attention as much. That results in a need to spend a lot more focused time with the Southlands in the second half of the film. I’m not sure that there’s a perfect solution, and like I said, I expect that this will remain one of the biggest differences between the various final edits.
++ I also think that the final Eregion part of the story feels rushed, as it did too in the series. There needs to be time in between the Halbrand recovery scenes, the research scenes, and the ultimate forging and Sauron reveal scenes. We need a B plotline at minimum to run alongside all this, which is why I chose to end my own edit with the eruption and use the Harfoots to give a sense of emotional closure to the movie. That said, moving the Eregion stuff out of the first movie cuts out the full-circle stuff with Galadriel’s brother and his dagger, as well as the proximity of the first raft scene and the later vision. You create an excellent emotional finale with your forging montage, and it’s hard to imagine it anywhere except at the end. Once again, I’m not sure that there is an ideal solution, but I’m hoping for some amazing new option to become clear when season 2 adds content.
++ I could almost imagine an edit where this content is split across two movies, with the Eregion and Harfoot storylines both pushed into the second movie. You’d focus the first movie on Lindon, the Southlands, and Numenor, culminating in the eruption. Then you’d have the post-eruption refugee stuff happening at the same time as the Harfoot plotline, with the implication that the meteor happened at the same time as the eruption. The Elrond plotline would need to cross through both films and ultimately tie everything together in Eregion by the end of the second. I’m not sure how the lengths would work out though, what kind of emotional closure you’d get from the first film, or what kind of precedent such a split would set for the number of films in the series as a whole. This is probably an idea to explore in an entirely different edit attempt.
++ All in all, I have to say once more that think you’ve done excellent work here. With a little more polish, this would be an automatic go-to edit for people wanting a more streamlined and cohesive viewing experience but one that also remains faithful to the series. You fix pacing and trim random fluff, but you leave the lore/story as it was presented to maintain that vanilla experience in a heightened way. You do a very fine job of it all, and I’m grateful that I’ve been able to play a small role in this process. Thank you.
