towne32

kk650 said:

 

Yes I agree, it looks like GL was experimenting with CG at the time and CG Jabba was nowhere near the level that it should have been to actually be included in the film, irrespective of all the narrative problems it creates.

On the other hand I felt all the CG additions in Mos Eisley were of a much better visual quality overall. Excluding the droid slamming the other one and the swinging jawas, I really like the additions that were made to Mos Eisley, making it feel more like a lived in city rather than a set, I felt it was one of the things where GL really improved on the UOT and one of the reasons why I made these Semi-Specialised Editions.

What are your thoughts on the Sarlacc CGI? I think it looks terribly dated, especially the "beak" part. Again, it reminds me of 1990's video games and ruins the mystery and absurdity of the monster. Since you say your V2 of RoTJ is in final colorizing stages, you have probably already decided whether or not to deal with the Sarlacc?

kk650 said:

towne32 said:

Thanks for all the detailed explanations! 

It's easy enough for me to glance at these things and think of alternatives, but it's quite another to try them out and see how they work. I do feel the opposite way about the dino vs. droid, but to each their own. The dino makes me feel like I'm back in 1997 and CGI cut scenes in video games are just starting to become a thing, but are not very good yet.

But it's just a personal preference. Obviously, as someone posting in this thread, I am not 100% anti-SE. I think there's nothing wrong with getting a bit crazy with a 20th anniversary theater re-release! So long as you don't try to wish away history after that. For just about anything *living* that has been done with CGI (Dinos, Jedi Rocks sequence, Sarlac*, Jar Jar ;) ) itjust misses the mark on a technical level. There are other flaws on top of those, in many cases. But if they spliced a Jabba prop into ANH well instead of a terribly anachronistic model, I wouldn't mind it sticking around despite the other faults with it (re-used dialog, breaking the Jabba reveal).

*on that note, I'm crossing my fingers that you can make this particular edit work. :)

It seems that we all have different tolerances for different changes in the SE, which is why its pretty much impossible for anybody to make a version that combines the two which will make everybody happy. You clearly really dislike the dinos but the dinos have never been an issue for me. That bit with the stormtroopers riding on those CG animals looking for the droids in the desert has never been an issue with me for the same reason.

By contrast though, you wouldn't be too bothered by keeping that Jabba scene in Star Wars so long as they used a decent prop while I absolutely HATE that scene and it has little to do with the CG Jabba. It's probably the change I hate the most out of all the SE changes throughout the OT, closely followed by Greedo shooting first and Hayden Christenson replacing Sebastian Shaw in the Jedi Ghosts scene in Return of the Jedi. I hate the Jabba scene in Star Wars for three main reasons:

1) Its simply repeating all the information we were already told during the Han Solo/Greedo scene

2) It makes Jabba look like a clown, a buffoon that nobody in their right mind would be afraid of, certainly not like Han is in Empire Strikes Back

3) It ruins the surprise and final brilliant reveal in Return of the Jedi of this villain that has been a menace hanging over Han and the others, a dark shadow looming over them throughout the entire trilogy, with people thinking 'Oh, its that clown from Star Wars again'.

Everybody has a different opinion on what should be kept/what should stay. The only sane thing for me to do is go with what works for me. Hopefully others will agree with a lot of my choices and be able to enjoy these Semi-Specialised Editions as well.

 Oh, I fully agree with all of those reasons, and I think it has no place in an *ideal* version of the movie. I simply mean that, while watching it, the thing that takes me out of the movie the most is that it feels like I'm watching a youtube video on "how to do CGI in maya" or something. It was a neat little bonus to show off unused footage in the '97 release, but I think it honestly should never be shown aside from a DVD/bluray easter egg section.

CapableMetal said:

Muxing is the process of combining the audio and video files into a single container format (in this case an MKV). Demuxing is the opposite of that. TBH, if you demux an AVC file from an MKV and try to open it in Premiere you may still have trouble. Premiere imports M2TS files no problem, so you may want to try re-muxing from the MKV to an M2TS file using Tsmuxer or a similar application.

Be aware though that Premiere isn't very quick when working with compressed files and I've had problems with it decoding frames correctly before from AVC video streams. I export from MKV to a Lagarith lossless AVI before trying to manipulate the video. The files are very large, but then Premiere itself creates a huge cache of decoded video anyway if working with AVC!

 I am trying to work with a remuxed m2ts file in Premiere. But the audio is DTS. As I expected, this doesn't load into Premiere (though the video track seems fine). I would really like edit points to occur simultaneously in Premiere or After Effects (or whatever other program I end up using). Surely there is a way to accomplish this?

Thanks

Thanks for all the detailed explanations! 

It's easy enough for me to glance at these things and think of alternatives, but it's quite another to try them out and see how they work. I do feel the opposite way about the dino vs. droid, but to each their own. The dino makes me feel like I'm back in 1997 and CGI cut scenes in video games are just starting to become a thing, but are not very good yet.

But it's just a personal preference. Obviously, as someone posting in this thread, I am not 100% anti-SE. I think there's nothing wrong with getting a bit crazy with a 20th anniversary theater re-release! So long as you don't try to wish away history after that. For just about anything *living* that has been done with CGI (Dinos, Jedi Rocks sequence, Sarlac*, Jar Jar ;) ) itjust misses the mark on a technical level. There are other flaws on top of those, in many cases. But if they spliced a Jabba prop into ANH well instead of a terribly anachronistic model, I wouldn't mind it sticking around despite the other faults with it (re-used dialog, breaking the Jabba reveal).

*on that note, I'm crossing my fingers that you can make this particular edit work. :)

I don't actually have a problem with Harmy's speeds.

It's more of a matter of:

Okay, I've decided to use html based file hosts to distribute my stuff. Do I choose a site (like Harmy did on the last one I grabbed) that people can get 7MB/s? Or do I choose a site that caps things at a rate that seemed mediocre in 1999? And disconnects randomly. And can't be set to download overnight (lets be honest, about 5 overnights), because it needs a new Captcha to be completed after each part finishes.

I don't think it's really bitching or ungrateful. It's just, if you're going to upload to one of these (for profit) sites, why not choose one that A. sends it to a bunch of other sites, like the "multi" ones, and B. Is accessible and gives the best service? I can't say enough good things about reconstructing a film from 1977 or even 1997. I don't understand reconstructing download experiences from 1997.

It's not immediately obvious why some services are used over others. I got Harmy's 1997 in an hour or two. I'm attempting to get someone else's work, and it might take me a week for each release. That's fine, but it's hard to imagine a reason for choosing the bad one other than lack of awareness of how immense the difference is. 

edit: Having said all that, instead of complaining or explaining all this, I should just be promoting the site that Harmy recently used, so that he and others continue using it: multiupload.nl was great. Thanks.

SilverWook said:

I'd be very surprised if they do it this film, as fans are expecting someone to bite it. Luke going the Obi Wan route to spooksville too soon would be a bit obvious, and merely ape the original film.

After the whole Vector Prime backlash, they aren't going kill Chewie, at least not this time out. Somebody has to mourn Han's passing with a mighty howl that will shake the bulkheads loose.

This is the welcome back to the Galaxy Far Far Away movie, things can get darker in Episode 8.

 Well, Chewie has the best voice for mourning at least.

team_negative1 said:

timdiggerm said:

 I think it means that imgur is more likely to continue to reliably host pictures than previous sites.

 No. Look at the actual full sized images again. (Hint hint).

Team Negative1

 2K

ComputerGeek said:

Same. The original SW took a little over an hour and a half for me, and i gave up on ESB after I saw the 300kb per second download speed being offered.

 That's rather good compared to the 35kbs cap I've seen with 'netload' and 'uploaded'.

I agree. Hopefully they are more original than that. I would imagine that they'll keep Luke around (at least to return in IX), so long as Hamill is up for it. 

So. What does everyone think of the possibility of OT characters dying in VII? (I'd rather discuss it now, as opposed to down the road when the spoilers may or may not be floating around).

I think there's a pretty good chance of Luke or Han biting the dust. Harrison has said that he thought Solo should die in V or VI. And I've read that Lucas only kept him alive at the end of Jedi for marketing purposes? (true?). Plus they might be concerned about getting him back for VIII and IX, if nothing is signed yet.

The more I see of Mark Hamill this year, the more convinced I am that he's going to pull off this role and won't just be shown in a scene for fandom to check off a box. But they might want to have him struck down to pass the torch to the next star. A bit too predictable to do it exactly like that, though.

ComputerGeek said:

Just a request: when v2.0 is released, can you upload them to multiupload like you did for the original SW? The current host (without a DL manager) for ESB and RotJ only lets me download one part at a time and at a slow speed.

 Agree. Multiupload, as used for the 97 respecialized, worked fantastically. 

dark_jedi said:

TV's Frink said:

dark_jedi said:

TV's Frink said:

Maybe Always got a 1997 Special Edition?

(I have no idea why he chose to post those specific shots instead of Star Wars ones)

We know why and that is really all that matters right? after all this is our thread.

*edit, I guess I should have said I know why, he told me in an email.

 Then I guess he didn't need to post that part here, did he?

Don't get me wrong, I love "v."  That guy always makes me laugh.

Are you thread Police? he can post in our thread on any of our projects if he wants to, ALL those he posted about are our projects, and the SW BD's are pictured, there is no Always thread because that was a gift from us to him, so can't you just go back to the Off Topic section and just leave this alone already I mean Holy Shit man?

 And have a thread exist that he doesn't constantly pollute? I can't see that happening.

kk650 said:

towne32 said:

kk650 said:

towne32 said:

I think it looks great. I think the main flaw is the somewhat obvious sound cuts that we've discussed a bit already, so no need to dwell on that more. It would be lovely to see that fix in the 16gb version, though.

As far as other editing decisions go, as you've said, everyone would probably create a slightly different version for themselves. I personally would love a copy with *no* CGI 'dinosaurs' at all (or flying droids) in addition to the rest of your changes. But, different strokes for different folks.

And I did notice the grey line in that shot. Is it only a single frame with this?

If I had access to blu-ray level HD footage of the shots you're talking about without the 'dinosaurs', I'd certainly consider removing the one that walks accross Luke and Ben when they're in the speeder about to talk to the storm troopers. 

 I agree that the flying droids aren't the end of the world.

Would you consider asking Harmy/team negative1 to use their 35mm scan to get rid of the giant dino blocking the camera? It would probably need a lot of color alteration. Given that a lot of that has probably already been done on the shot, I'm not sure how much a clip can be changed back and forth before it starts getting... odd.

I don't necessarily like the 'dino' that they pass *after* the stormtroopers. But, the landspeeder was a mess in that shot as it was originally done. (I recall reading that it was processed and blurred repeatedly, and it shows). So, short of some rotoscoping to keep the speeder and lose the creature, it's probably fine for semi-specialized as is.

There is the shot when they're first pulling into the city, specific to the SE, where there are exact duplicate stormtroopers on both sides, making the exact same motions. I like the shot (for SE purposes), but the identically moving stormtroopers make it look like a 90's video game. Again, probably not an easy fix by any means.

Hmm, it's fascinating because i'm looking at althor1138's incredibly useful Star Wars COLD release to quickly compare the SE to the GOUT and it seems like that dino walking across was put there on purpose to hide the cheap looking half painted white and green R2D2 unit that passes by. Which is the lesser of two evils is the question, GL thinks the dino it seems. I'm 50/50 to be honest.

The shot when they pass the dino after the stormtroopers, I have no preference whether the dino is there or not, both are fine to me, though the GOUT and Japanese laserdisc release have a lot more deadspace below the R2D2 droid with the red top than the SE releases, making the GOUT/laserdisc shot look more like a set and a bit fake compared to the SE releases IMHO. In this case I would definately choose the SE shot because of the reduced amount of deadspace, making for better frame composition and making the set look more real, a definate improvement in my book.

The third thing you mentioned is something i've never noticed (nice spot, though you probably wish you hadn't noticed it now haha) so its not really an issue for me. As you say though, even if it was, I don't think there's that much I could do about it.

 I never really thought of the up close dino-skin as an attempt to block the green droid. Just had another look, and I don't think the droid looks too bad (surely he would have blocked the ugly yellow one instead?).

You're right about the other points.

I also compared the sound changes (as the shot switches) in your version, the SE, and the original. I think you're mostly right, that you found pretty good spots to cut. 

I think what's problematic for you is the very brief look at the first dino, after the dupli-troopers shot. I see why you have it there. Before the shenanigans, it's a prototypical example of what the SE is trying to do in expanding mos eisley, and you're *not* making a despecialized. But more importantly, the up-close dino skin in the next shot would be so much worse without the viewer having been exposed to what that creature *even is*. But the shot is so quick the way you've got it. It's a bit awkward in both the video and your sound cut. Have you considered cutting when the dino's feet hit the ground? The ridiculous part, honestly, is the swinging jawa.

In conclusion: Mos Eisley is a mess and it's difficult to strike a good balance.

Can't wait for this.

Agreed. That gate has been discussed a lot this last week, for the reason you mention.

The fact that the actors would be younger is really the only thing it has going for it. But I think it will be interesting to see them older, and it may work better for 'passing the torch' (whether or not are new characters will be decent is another matter - who knows at this point).

So, unless it was an alternate timeline where Lucas sold it two plus decades earlier, or somehow magically had it stripped from him by force (I like the sound of this timeline), I think we're better off.

The xbox one doesn't work with AVCHD, or even BD-R movies, because Microsoft are  bunch of tools. 

It doesn't play MKV, but most things don't. I *think* you would need to convert to MP4 container.

But yes, another thread in another section would be ideal. The answer you end up getting will apply to any video release.

Anchorhead said:

If those are current pics of Hamill, he's looking great.  Perfect for a return to the galaxy far far away. 

 Yep, that lightsaber pic is from this week. He does look great.

Some of those Sept '13 images are indeed a lot better. But I think there is just going to be a limit when it comes to jpeg compression. Something like tiff or png might be a good way to go, on a site that doesn't recompress anything (either a such confirmed image upload site, or simply a file upload site like mega, that doesn't care that it's even an image). Not necessarily every day, but once in a while would be a nice treat.

Beggars can't be choosers and all, I know. But even if it is technically a 1080 or 2k pixel image, your hard work is masked by certain compression algorithms. 

bkev said:

Posting those pictures is a waste of time.  I might as well be looking at a 480 video on YouTube with that compression.

I agree. But it seems like continuing to suggest something they don't care to address might also be a waste of time.

I'm sure the real deal looks great, but has it been said why we're getting compressed movies and videos (that are still made to be 1080 pixels)? Seems like, since there are various team members working on various parts, it's a matter of swapping smaller sized preview videos around?

I still appreciate the previews to see the color/fading, damage, stabilization, etc. But, looking forward to getting an idea of the detail level too.

Harmy said:

Some day maybe but as of now, ROTJ seems to be getting the least attention in terms of fan 35mm restorations. I would add that the scene in ROTJ that needs a 35mm source the most IMO is the musical number.

True. Maybe they will be kind enough to bump up those scenes in the priority list, as may have happened with the landspeeder ANH scene. Either way, at least team negative suggest that RoTJ will need the least cleanup as far as dirt/scratches/damage go. 

Anyway, veering off topic we are. :)

Harmy said:

I definitely didn't use any VHS :D The '97SE source is a standard definition anamorphic PAL digital broadcast recording. As to 35mm scans - no I have only received those for two or three shots so far but I'm hoping to get many more for v2.5 - the thing is, I'm already pushing this further than I originally intended - I wanted v2.0 to be a quick new version that would replace v1.0 mainly for the reasons of v1.0's poor picture quality, rather than making any huge leaps in the despecialization department. And I think that as soon as I get my computer fixed, I will finish v2.0 fairly quickly and then do v2.0 of ROTJ in a similar fashion and then just wait until I have the better sources for v2.5s.

 RoTJ 2.5 could really benefit from some 35mm material for Anakin's eyebrows, as well as his ghost, and the Jabba's palace scene. Hope all those things come together some day.

SamS said:

I really can't thank you guys enough times, so here's another THANK YOU! :)

Question: what are you guys using to print out the cover art?  My color laser printer is long gone, and I'd like a high-quality print out to store the discs (burned to M-Disc BD, FTW!) in.  I'm guessing FedEx Office won't touch it due to copyright fears?

Some copy-places just have computer terminals that you can sit at and print simple things from.

I think it's the big grey line to the left of his cheek. It would probably be easier to see compared to a frame before or after. It looks like a color from the background xwing. So presumably they were using a color extracted with an eye-dropper type tool and left a paint stroke.

Baronlando said:

Pretty cool. Multiple LLP prints" is impressive and really good to hear,  I've been slowly realizing I have no idea what JEDI actually looks like. 

 Indeed!

Are these prints in better shape (as far as scratches, glue, and other damage), than some of the SW/ESB prints?