therowdyman

spoRv said:

Not a Beatles expert, but there are a lot of laserdisc editions; it could be possible to find out some mono versions, so I guess laserdisc higher S/N and dynamic could be a better source, at least in theory.

The only laserdisc with the original mono soundtrack is Let It Be. Let It Be (the album) never had a mono mix (other than fold-down mixes released in some countries).

The songs on the other 4 films on Laserdisc are either stereo remixes or include the original stereo album versions.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/A-soundtrack-guide-to-Beatles-movie-mixes-A-Hard-Days-Night-Help-The-Beatles-at-Shea-Stadium-Magical-Mystery-Tour-Yellow-Submarine-Let-It-Be-/id/111946

clashradio said:

The original mix is easy to spot because it will have John’s overdubbed “Roll up! Roll up! For the Magical Mystery Tour…” at the beginning of “Magical Mystery Tour” rather than the recording from the song. It also contains the original mono mixes of the songs.

My laserdisc, and 1997 MPI dvd also has John’s “roll up roll up”. I’m guessing the mono mixes of the songs is the only other difference to the soundtrack?

The original mono mix of “Magical Mystery Tour” was mixed on 4th May, 1967. This version, original had a clean introduction without the “Roll up, roll up” barker call. For the soundtrack version, the Beatles (John) overdubbed the “Roll up, roll up for the Magical Mystery Tour! Step right this way! Hurry, hurry, hurry!” that’s featured on the 1967 mono soundtrack.

Later, on November 7th, they re-recorded the same line, but dropped the “Hurry, hurry, hurry!” part. This November 7th recording (both mono and stereo) is we all know from the EP/album.

So, in 1967 we have two versions of the “roll up, roll up” line - the May 4th mono soundtrack recording that was featured on the TV special, and the EP/album version recorded on November 7th (without the “Hurry, hurry, hurry!” part).

In 1988, when the MMT was remixed for the Laserdisc and VHS release, the May 4th recording of “roll up, roll up” with the “Hurry, hurry, hurry!” at the end was added to a new stereo remix of the song.

As far as I’m aware, the MPI DVD uses the album’s stereo mixes (Nov 7th), but if that’s not the case, it will either by the 1967 mono soundtrack mix (if in mono) or the 1988 stereo remix (if in stereo).

clashradio said:

I just bought Magical Mystery Tour Media Home Entertainment vhs, dated 1985 for the original mono mix. Not sure if you noticed or not, but it runs 4% slow. This must be sourced from a PAL video transfer. The same thing happened on The Doors 1998 “Doors Are Open” dvd. They corrected the speed issue when it was re-released on BD in 2014.

It’s possible that it is from the PAL if it’s running slower. There was a theatrical print in the US distributed by New Line Cinema in the 1970s, so I’m surprised Meida didn’t use that.

The BD will be at the correct speed, but it’s a whole new mix (stereo and 5.1) done in 2012 by Giles Martin.

The original mix is easy to spot because it will have John’s overdubbed “Roll up! Roll up! For the Magical Mystery Tour…” at the beginning of “Magical Mystery Tour” rather than the recording from the song. It also contains the original mono mixes of the songs.

Bluray.com have this clip from the BluRay from the same set as the earlier John shot.

The Decimator said:

The 2007 remix of Help! also has new, distracting sound effects in a few places. There’s a shot of a guy firing off a rifle early in the film, and the original sound effect is appropriately loud and threatening. In the remix, it’s replaced by a quieter, wimpier noise.

It was a real misstep not to have included the original mono track of Help! on that 2007 remaster.

I can confirm that Filmography 2 bootleg DVD contains the mono soundtrack print.

https://www.discogs.com/release/14472421-The-Beatles-Filmography-2

The video quality is terrible. It’s an off-air VHS recording from AMC in the 1990s compressed to single layer DVD-R MPEG2. If you can be bothered, you’d rip the soundtrack and sync it with the Blu-Ray video.

Without watching the recent Blu-Ray, I can’t comment on the colour timings and whether or not they need to be adjusted. There’s and old thread on the Steve Hoffman Music Forums about the LD and MPI DVD with a side-by-side comparison of the two.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/beatles-help-laser-disc-better-than-dvd.45432/

MPI DVD on the left and Criterion LD on the right

Both those releases feature the 1987 stereo soundtrack.

JadedSkywalker said:

I’ve been looking for the Mono Mix of Help! for a good long while to no luck. No VHS, or laserdisc has it.

I tried buying the first issue Laserdisc but that was a dead end. Mono compatible two channel stereo.

You can find the correct mono mixes for the songs is on the Back to Basics: Help! Sessions CD.

https://www.the-paulmccartney-project.com/album/help-studio-sessions-back-to-basics/

The CD also has the acetates given to the film production (which includes the “You Like Me Too Much” and “Yes It Is” acetates, which didn’t make the film). There’s also the AMC Presents AHDN & Help CD bootleg from the AMC broadcasts. The AMC broadcasts themselves have found their way to bootleg series on DVD called Filmography. Help! is on Filmography 2.

https://www.discogs.com/release/14472421-The-Beatles-Filmography-2

You may also want to check out the Beatleg Forums.

This original started as a response to another older thread, but it led me down a rabbit for information. So, instead, I thought it could be of some use as its own post.

Keeping track of Beatles mixes is its own full-time hobby. There are some helpful guides out there that I’ve used which includes the excellent Daily Beatle and Maul’s Complete Home and Studio Guide. The latest version as of time of writing is here:

https://archive.org/details/the-beatles-the-complete-studio-home-recordings-november-2023-v-2
Beatles film mix variants

A lot of pre-BluRay home media remixes were done by Ron Furmanek who did most of the home media restoration work for the Beatles:

https://webgrafikk.com/blog/uncategorized/ron-furmanek-and-his-work-for-beatles/

A Hard Day’s Night

• Theatrical mono - the “Can’t Buy Me Love” (George’s guitar is louder) and “Tell Me Why” use a different mono mix to the mono album versions.
  Releases: AMC broadcast, 1996 AFI Restored MONO Soundtrack, 2014 Criterion Blu-ray, 2022 Criterion 4K UHD.

• 1982 stereo version - Universal Pictures reissued the film in 1982 with a new opening photo montage featuring “I’ll Cry Instead”. The track was featured on the 1964 US soundtrack but was not featured in the final film. The album stereo mixes replaced the original mono mixes the other songs. However, this version is also missing some sound effect cues
  Releases: 1984-1990s VHS releases, 1987 Criterion LD, 1995 MPI LD, 1997 MPI DVD.

• 2002 Marimax Dolby Digital 5.1 - this is a controversial one. Ron Furmanek restored the original mono and restored the missing sound effects. However, Marimax decided to upscale his mono mix into 5.1(!!!) The result is awful, it’s underwhelming on DVD and sounded like mud on its theatrical re-release.
  Releases: 2002 Marimax DVD and Blu-Ray.

• 2014 remix - Giles Martin remixed the films songs in 5.1 and stereo from the studio multi-tracks.
  Releases: 2014 Criterion Blu-ray, 2022 Criterion 4K UHD.

Help!

• Production acetates - mono mixes of songs that both appeared and were shortlisted for the film
  onto 78rpm acetate discs. The mixes are in mono and different to both standard album/single and film mono mixes. The tracks include (with studio mix notes):

Ticket To Ride (take 2 RM?
Another Girl (take 1 RM?)
I Need You (take 5 RM?)
Yes It Is (take 14 RM?)^
The Night Before (take 2 RM?)
You Like Me Too Much (take 8 RM?)^
You’ve Got To Hide Your Love Away (take 9 RM?)
You’re Going Lose That Girl (take 3 RM?)
Help! (take 12 RM4)

^ songs not in finished film.

Releases: They are out there in bootleg-land. The one to get is “Last Laquers” released 2016 by Masterjedi.

• 1965 Theatrical mono - the only known version out there, outside of the film print is a broadcast from AMC and an AFI 1996 print. There are different mixes on the mono soundtrack to the mono album such as “Help!” having a double tracked vocal in the intro and “Ticket to Ride” has less reverb and more tambourine.
  Releases: It has appeared on a few bootleg compilations.

• 1987 Stereo - Ron Furmanek’s stereo version of Help! produced for the Criterion LD. This version uses the original 1965 stereo album mixes of the songs. The 1965 album of the same name was remixed by Jon Jacobs and George Martin in 1987 for its CD debut in April 1987. The original 1965 stereo mixes may have been chosen for this laserdisc because it was released in March 1987, while the Jacobs/Martin remixes were only completed in early 1987 and may not have been available in time for this release.
  Releases: 1987 Criterion LD, 1989-1990s VHS, 1995 MPI LD, 1997 MPI DVD.

• 2007 remix
  Releases: Apple remixed the songs for DVD in stereo and 5.1 from the original studio multitracks (sadly they did not include the mono soundtrack) - 2007 DVD, 2013 Blu-ray

The Beatles at Shea Stadium

• Raw concert audio - the raw concert audio track was never officially released. The “raw”
  audio refers to the off-line audio feed from the concert’s mixing desk.
  Releases: Released by HMC in 2007 when a tape was sold at auction. Under the title: “The Beatles and the Great Concert at Shea” CD.

• 1966 TV mono - the original soundtrack was the live concert audio with further overdubs done later at London’s CTS Studios on 5 January 1966. The song “Act Naturally” was replaced by the mono mix of the album version.
  Releases: 1978 Media Home Entertainment Betamax, 1979 BBC broadcast.

• 1991 remix - the concert was remixed in 1991 using the overdubbed tapes for a canceled VHS release. It has since been leaked onto the bootleg market as “Shea!” by His Master Choice.
  Releases: 2020 “Shea!” HCM DVD

• 2015 remix - for select screenings of Ron Howard’s Eight Days a Week documentary, a newly restored and remixed version of the film was shown after the main documentary. This was remixed by Giles Martin and Sam Okell but due to a long-standing licensing dispute, there was no home media release.
  Releases: This is a tough one. To date, the audio track (stereo?) has been leaked with an iPhone filming the screen as the video. So, this one is still M.I.A.

References:
http://www.maccafan.net/Gallery/SheaStadium/Shea.htm
https://webgrafikk.com/blog/uncategorized/tmoq-gazette-shea-stadium-1965/
http://lifeofthebeatles.blogspot.com/2009/07/august-15-1965-raw-shea-stadium.html
https://forum.beatlegdb.com/viewtopic.php?p=11072&hilit=2015+shea+stadium#p11072

Magical Mystery Tour

• 1967 TV mono - The original mono broadcast mix. With mono song mixes and a different mono mix than released on the album of the title track (RM7 with a different “roll up, roll up” overdub). This is also the soundtrack used on the 1974 US theatrical release from New Line Cinema.
  Releases: This can be found on the original VHS releases pre-1988 - 1978 MEDA/Media Home Entertainment Betamax (NTSC), 1981 MEDIA/Media Home Entertainment VHS (NTSC), 1980s Empire Films VHS (PAL Australia). There is also a fan-edit on the bootleg DVD “The Beatles - The Ultimate Mystery Trip Vol. 2” (HMC045 - TMOQ Gazette Vol.33). This combines the original 1967 mono soundtrack with the video from the 1988 Laserdisc release.

• 1988 “George Martin” stereo remix - George Martin is in quotes as it was actually Ron Furmanek that remixed it with Martin acting as Executive Producer.
  Releases: 1988 VHS and LD with a 1992 reissue on LD.

• 1997 DVD mix - uses the original soundtrack with the stereo mixes from the album.
  Releases: 1997 MPI DVD

• 2012 remix - a new Giles Martin remix in stereo and 5.1
  Releases: 2012 DVD and Blu-ray

HMC also released a bootleg DVD that combines the video from the 1988 LD and the soundtrack from the MEDIA mono VHS: https://www.jpgr.co.uk/boot_hmc045.html

Yellow Submarine

• 1968 Original UK cut mono - the UK print with “Hey Bulldog”
  Releases: The 1999 DVD has been reported to have stereo mixes of “When I’m Sixty-Four”, “Baby, You’re a Rich Man” and “Only A Northern Song”. The tracks on the '99 DVD mono is slightly pitched up.

The 2012 Blu-ray has its songs in the correct pitch except “Only A Northern Song” which is at a slightly slower. “Baby, You’re a Rich Man” is in stereo on the 2012 BluRay.

• 1968 Original International cut mono - the international cut with “Beatles to battle!” and no “Hey Bulldog”
  Releases: AMC broadcast. There is also a scan from a 16mm print circulating online.

• 1987 stereo (International cut) - prepared by Ron Furmanek using stereo mixes of some songs. “Eleanor Rigby” has its stereo channels reversed. “All Together Now (reprise)”, “Only A Northern Song” and “It’s All Too Much” are in fake stereo. “Nowhere Man” is the original 1965 stereo mix.
  Releases: 1987 LD and VHS

• Preview version of the 1999 re-issue with rough mix of the '99 remix (UK cut) - In 1999, YS was remixed for the film’s 30th anniversary. This was the first time the pre-bounced elements of Beatles tracks were used in a remix. A preview VHS was circulating at the time that featured the songs in a rough mix state. These tracks have been leaked on bootleg.
  Releases: songs can be found on the Contemporary Sound 1& 2 (Magoocus) 2009 CDs and Back To Basics series.

• 1999 remix (UK cut) - remixed for the film’s 30th anniversary. This was the first time the pre-bounced elements of Beatles tracks were used in a remix.
  Releases: 1999 LD and VHS, 2012 DVD and BluRay

Let It Be
A good run down of the history of Let It Be can be found here: https://webgrafikk.com/blog/documentary/the-rise-and-fall-and-rise-of-the-let-it-be-film/

• Original mono
  Releases: 1979 BBC broadcast, 1981 Magnetic Video LD, Betmax and VHS, 1981 RCA CED, 1984 West German Warner VHS.

• 1992 MPI stereo - Ron Furmanek remixed some of the songs from the original 8-track into stereo for a planned 1992 home video release of ‘Let It Be’ that was ultimately scrapped.
  Releases: HMC have since released a boot of it: https://www.giginjapan.com/beatles-let-it-be-movie-hmc/

• 2024 Disney+ Dolby Atmos - Finally released again official to home media in 2024, Peter Jackson used the MAL Ai extraction software to make a new remix of the film possible. Giles Martin remix the soundtrack at Abbey Road in Dolby Atmos. This new version features some differences to the original theatrical print:

2024 Disney+ changes

• A new introduction by Peter Jackson and Michael Lindsay-Hogg.
• The 2024 version is in the full un-cropped 1.37:1 aspect ratio and not 1.85:1 as the theatrical version.
• The “curtain wipe” transition between the “I Me Mine” and Apple Studio segments is gone. It’s now a hard cut transition.
• The freeze frame at the end with “Get Back (Reprise)” has been replaced by a new credit sequence with a new mix of “Oh Darling” (from Anthology 3), “Down By The Riverside” and “I Lost My Little Girl”.

Releases: Streaming on Disney+

As a side to the soundtrack, it should also be noted the various aspect ratios on each home media release.

= The film was original shot 1.37:1 for TV but was cropped to 1.85:1 for cinemas.

= Magnetic Video VHS/Beta/LD, RCA CED are cropped from a 1.85:1 print to 4:3.

= The BBC’s 1979 broadcast was letterboxed from 1.85:1 for 4:3.

= Most interesting of all is the West German VHS, which is an open matte pre-cropped version with German subtitles for the dialogue.

= The bootleg of the ‘92 MPI is also open matte with remastered picture.

= The 2024 Disney+ release is the pre-cropped 1.37:1 version.

Last updated - 2024-05-14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zHgqpTuSgk

Here’s an interview with Paul Rutan Jr. who did the restoration on the AMC A Hard Day’s Night and Help! Worth a listen as its very informative as to the lengths he went to retrieve prints of these films.

The mono audio track on AHDN came from a UK print as the original US prints had the volume turned up on them encase the film couldn’t be heard over the screaming teenagers in the audience. This meant the US prints all had clipping and distortion.

I know this is an older thread, so how does the AMC soundtrack compare to the more recent Criterion version?

zeropc said:

i’m a bit confused because to my knowledge capturing the pcm audio of a laserdisc through optical (toslink) is bit-perfect. i mean what else can one do? increasing the capture from 16bit to 24bit wont do anything, except a higher filesize. increasing the samplerate from 44.1khz to 48khz on capture wont do anything either, in terms of quality.

i mean, the laserdisc pcm is 16bit @ 44.1khz - what more can you do?

so what do people refer to when they talk about bit-perfect and saying that a normal digital capture wont be enough?

please enlighten me 😃

Forgive the lateness of this post, I thought it may be of use to anyone still looking into this.

My understanding is Laserdisc PCM is 16bit/44.1kHz - no more. So whatever capture you do, it would be advised to keep it 44.1kHz as record at 48kHz (or higher) will create sync issues with the video.

Yes, you could set the DAW at 24bit/44.1kHz, but the only advantage of that would be if you need to use plug-in to alter the sound.

I’ve never tried to capture from toslink to DAW as my LD Player doesn’t have an optical out for digital stereo tracks. If it’s just PCM, then I would assume any DAW interface with a toslink input should receive the digital stereo signal.

DTS 5.1 audio, while coming from the same toslink output, needs a decoder to turn it form code into 5.1 channels of audio. This is normally handled by an AV receiver amp. Same deal as the RF AC3 tracks that need a demodulation to turn it into a 5.1 digital signal that would go to an AV receiver amp via toslink or coaxial. So other than using a line level convertor to convert your AV receivers speaker outputs into line level to input to an analogue 6 channel input - I couldn’t tell you how to capture an un-decoded AC3 or DTS signal to 6 channel digital PCM audio while maintaining digital all the way down the chain.