msycamore, sorry I'm a bit lost now... let me understand, there is still need for LD captures of the 1997 Special Edition Trilogy (NTSC and/or PAL)? Or there are better sources available? Because following this thread I suspected that the DVB sources are worse than LD, isn't true?
G.,
the script is atrocius and frankly I can't remember where all the necessary DLLs are and what they are... so, it is useless to post here as is. If you want, I could post you with a PM, you try to figure out which DLLs are needed, clean A LOT the code, then make some test - not to evaluate the results, just to see if it does work into your PC - and at the end you can publish here. At that time, everybody could use it, contribute to modify it or simply forget it...
TServo2049, yes, I still have the "pyramid" LDs; here you are the clip - pump DOWN the volume as I forgot to do it in the capture...
Besides "Jason and the Argonauts" PAL UK LD, are there any other PAL laserdiscs which contain some test image or color bars?
I found a CD-Video test that has few calibration clips:
now that we have proof that PAL CD-Video can't show 460 lines of horizontal resolution - what a discovery! - maybe only the first test could be useful; take in account that it has laserrot and so is full of speckles and dropouts, but the colors are still vibrant.
Did you make an AVS script like the one you posted, but for use with the BBC testcard G?
Thanks!
I discovered my capture card, using the Philips SAA 7134 chipset, has a four line comb filtes... following this specs, it seems it's better than Pioneer HLD-X9 S-Video out, which uses a "mere" three lines...
G-force, you know I appreciate your work and the clip I linked was not minimally intended to disappreciate it, at the contrary I was inspired by it, but you know, there are good masters (like you) and bad apprentices (like me).
Now I try to answer to your points:
1) As I wrote in my first post, the HD with Star Wars clips, tests, scripts etc. is gone... I found that clip online looking for my own scripts, and put on youtube "as is (was)"... you are right, there is a need of before-after clips... And don't forget to say "thank you" to youtube... ;-) that make another compression on a compressed source... by the way, I found some elsewhere and then posted online - here you are the link to old comparison clips:
http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g9d7d92a4accd929c156819a236c1e44229cb04
and they are the LAST WhiteMagic example/comparison I'll post here.
2) I like very well constructive criticism, and politeness is welcome in every aspect of life. And, because I asked those critics, thanks to them I'm now definitely persuaded to leave this kind of work to someone who is capable of doing it way better than me - infact, I realized the new version of the script is worst then the older ones; this is a hint that I'm certainly doing something wrong... ;-)
3) About sharpening, I admitted until the first post, and you are right - tooooo sharp. About colors... I made the corrections "by eye", and was sure they were right, until... I discovered someone of my family "tinkered" with my HDTV display (that I use also as PC monitor) settings, so all the color corrections done were wrong... I'm quite sure my cats are innocent (Am I so sure?!?)
4) Thanks for your comprehension, I think here we are all passionate users and/or ABusers... as I wrote in the point #2, it's better I'll leave this kind of work to the professionals... I decided to stick with my laserdisc captures - what crazy things in 2012! - and leave the postprocessing to others.
@timdiggerm: you are right, I changed my signature so now you know how you could call me...
So, is the 1997 SE laserdisc caption still needed?
Let me know, as I have several PAL and NTSC laserdisc players (between them, the Pioneer HLD-X9) and the following discs:
NTSC USA LDs:
PAL UK LDs:
PAL FRANCE LDs:
PAL GERMANY LDs:
PAL ITALY VHS:
(the last for the italian language... if only I could find those 3 DVD-R taken from TV, with italian language but formatted at 1.85:1 so useless as video, but with stereo AC3 at 384kbps if I well remember)
Following my calculation, a capture for each CAV side will be less than 5GB without audio and using Huffyuv - so at least (if I'm lucky) an empty DVD-R will be used for each side, but I'm sure a DVD-R DL will be used anytime...
If I can tell my opinion, I will use the AVCHD format, as it is compatible with PAL and NTSC at standard definition, the video quality is better compared to DVD - using dual layer DVDs, AVC compression at 5:1 or 6:1 will be really good - and is easy today to find BD players which play AVCHD - also PS3 plays it!
Mine is this:
Star Wars Trilogy: Collector's Set [PILF-2070]
and its year is 1995.
Sorry, the Collector's Edition (the one with the white box set, to be clear, 1995) is clearly NOT smear-free... and also full of DVNR artifacts, like DC and "faces"... so LDDB was wrong... the inner sleeves are similar to the european THX, with the same cover art, but I presume the master used is the same of DC and "faces"...
You_Too, the edition Moth3r used is the French THX, not the one I was talking about (called "pyramid" because it's box set shape).
I have that one, and I could assure you is completeley smear-free.
Thanks for the hints: right now I'm going to test if the japanese set is smear-free (but quite sure is not)... see you later!
I have done many laserdisc capture tests, also multiple with same disc and with different ones, on many players, using median and other methods, and I reached some conclusion:
1) When a single laserdisc is used to make several captures, on the same laserdisc player, it is useless... I mean, the dropouts are always in the same place, and if the player is good and the electric plug and video cables too, the noise floor caused by electric interference is so low that the captures are almost the same - not identical, because the source is analog, but really close.
2) When DIFFERENT laserdiscs of the same edition is used on the same players, the dropouts are usually in different places, so a median script could erase them, then is it much better than solution #1.
3) When a single laserdisc is used on DIFFERENT players, the dropouts are always in the same place, but treated differently... some player may display the dropout, the other may not display it, and the video quality could be really different; in this case, making different captures could be useful and is better than solution #1 and could be on par with solution #2.
4) When DIFFERENT laserdiscs of the same edition is used on DIFFERENT players, than this is the better solution until...
5) Using DIFFERENT laserdiscs of DIFFERENT edition on DIFFERENT players is the best of the best solution, ever...
So, if you send me the discs I could certainly use several solutions: #1, quite useless, and #3, quite good. If someone else would send me their discs, I could implement #4... at the present, I could use the solution #5 for many titles -visit the following thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Audio-and-or-video-captures-offered-anyone-interested/post/601192
Anyway, my japanese Star Wars Trilogy: Collector's Set [PILF-2070] seems, accordigly to LDDB, to use the same master of Star Wars: Coffret Trilogie: Edition Collector [856235] - if this is the case, it is smear-free too! How can I check it, which scenes must I see and what are the proofs I have to find?
Added the Philips LD player and the BD box set.
What about this old clip?
Please view at 1080p
left is the PAL THX spanish laserdisc capture, treated with WM and resized with a related script; right is the PAL GOUT original DVD, with a simple bilinear resize.
Hope the colors are better here - infact it is an old WM version.
AntcuFaalb, yes, I own one and used it really rarely, just to capture the rarest LDs... and I'm sorry I live in Italy!
You could send the laserdiscs to me, I'll capture them and send the laserdisc AND the captures back.
OR... if you prefer, I'll send you the captures and swap your Technidisc laserdiscs with my Spanish THX (really rare) or French THX PAL laserdiscs. Also if you have not a PAL laserdisc player, they worth to be owned by a Star Wars laserdisc collector, right?
What about a Pioneer HLD-X9?
You_Too is right... I must find the way to sharp less the image.
But, apart the over-sharpening, do you like the results?
By the way, DoubleKO, no, my name is not Kilroy... but if you like to call me with that name, I'll call you Eustace - do you like it? ;-)
The DVD GOUT upscaled image is taken directly from my own PAL Star Wars GOUT DVD... to be sure, now I played the DVD onto Media Player Classic, searched for the frame, freeze and save the image as BMP; opened it into Paint and saved as JPG - here you are this picture:
link to the image: http://s11.postimage.org/duz4aa0v5/snapshot20121011135238.jpg
This IS actually a frame from the GOUT PAL DVD... and is (to me) frankly orrible... obviously there are some really good restoration around here, made from various sources, and there is no need for another GOUT restoration.
The point is: this script could help to improve a laserdisc capture (and the PAL DVD GOUT is essentialy the same) and, besides the fact the picture could seem a water paint, when in motion - and not upscaled - the result is quite interesting and watchable.
P.S. sorry for the first post... I tried with Firefox, and there I can't see the images, you are right...
YouToo, you are right, this is the 2004 version, forgive me... I found it many months ago and forgot what version was... the script auto-adjust the image, so in some scenes is really good, in others is not... a good compromise if someone don't want to adjust a video frame by frame, or scene by scene.
OK, maybe the last (and only) try of WhiteMagic with HDTV failed, and maybe is better I give up and make no more experiment with HDTV...
I'm afraid the script doesn't improve so much an HDTV video, but it was intended to be used with a laserdisc capture, and tailored to it...
Look at this GIF; raw capture of the worst letterbox laserdisc edition, the so-called "pyramid" french non-THX, and four early stages of the script:
a link to HD image: http://s16.postimage.org/6gcexwbms/SW_Pyramid_WM0_4.jpg
The colors are still not right, and the resolution is not comparable to real HD, but after all, it is not bad, if you think the original video is captured from a low quality laserdisc...
And look what WhiteMagic did with GOUT:
taken from DVD stream plus simple VDUB resize to 1920 width
http://s16.postimage.org/adzonayg3/SW_GOUT.jpg
taken from DVD stream plus WhiteMagic 0.6 & dedicated resize
http://s16.postimage.org/eoeciw3j7/SW_GOUT_WM0_6.jpg
Maybe WhiteMagic will be quite good cleaning the 1997 laserdisc special edition, if someone is still interested in this project nowadays...
Well, here you are the other HDTV screenshot links (totally random):
http://s11.postimage.org/j0ifjvyi9/WM7_4.jpg
http://s11.postimage.org/rk1thn6up/WM7_5.jpg
http://s11.postimage.org/p4003sos1/WM7_6.jpg
http://s11.postimage.org/gn0hsvk35/WM7_7.jpg
http://s11.postimage.org/4zb1c2kc1/WM7_8.jpg
http://s11.postimage.org/yh0l7wsj5/WM7_9.jpg
Time to sleep now,,,
More than one year ago my HD went bust, with all Star Wars related contents (LD captures and AviSynth scripts)… but few days ago I discovered a copy of my WhiteMagic script in a USB memory, and decided to give it one last try.
I used a spanish HDTV version of the 1997 Special Edition of Star Wars EP4; loaded the WhiteMagic AviSynth script into VirtualDub; and then take some totally random pictures of the results - I initially put the left half of the same frame side by side, but then decided to set them vertically to display better on this forum.
The script tries to improve the colors and the definition… maybe the colors are totally wrong, but as far as I can remember, I compared the results with many screenshots taken from the original movie frames and other reliable sources, and they match better than GOUT… maybe the resulting image is too sharp, I know, but few details are discovered…
Anyway, I’d like to know your impressions.
Here you are three screenshots - if anyone will be interested I’ll post few more:
EDIT: links to the images:
http://postimage.org/image/tjif92167/
http://postimage.org/image/fr40dfaen/
http://postimage.org/image/kr1gldg1b/
I have the Blu-Ray of the entire SW saga, sitting on the shelf still intact, because… NOOOOOO (and other little annoying things). And, apart the fact that it’s still shrinkwrapped, I have not a BD-ROM on my computer, so it is impossible for me to grab BD captures…
Anyone who has the BD would/could make a comparison between the WhiteMagic and the BD? Obviously if the BD image is way better than WhiteMagic results, I’ll quit immediately - I must confess I tried to render the whole movie, but after 2 days and 200GB of hard disk space, VirtualDub gave up!!! I don’t want to waste 4 days and near 400GB for nothing - my PC is tired enough! 😉
Maybe a solution could be to record the digital output from the laserdisc player with a CD-recorder... it must be a perfect 1:1 digital copy!
Then put the recorded CD into your PC disc drive and take the DTS file.
The only thing to do is to transform it to be playable by a DVD player (possibly only adding "zeros" to fill the empty space and reach the DVD datarate of 1536kbps from the LD datarate of 1411kbps)
There is no problem about the fact the CD could hold only 74 minutes, as each side of a laserdisc is about 60 minutes long... the only bad thing is that you have to record 2 or 3 CDs for each movie - and recordable audio CD aren't cheap (at least here)...
If someone is able to convert the file and interested in the project, I'll record one CD and post the file on the net (hoping my old, rarely used CD recorder still works...)
It accidentally happens that I have both versions of "The Arrival" on laserdisc (the normal edition and the special edition boxset, STILL SEALED!) AND a very good choice of laserdisc players - between them, again accidentally, the Pioneer HLD-X9...
Maybe a new preservation project is "arrived"? ;)
As I've recently done the GOUT-'Pyramid' LD frame-by-frame comparison now I could see clearly the GOUT faults - you can see them here too - also if I'm still not happy with the ColourLike script results... then I've taken the new 'Pyramid' LD capture and treated with a slighty modified WhiteMagic 0.5 script - only more saturated to have a better overall color and not so lifeless as before:
Still thinking that, also if it's not perfect yet, "white magic is better - now with added colors" ;-)
What do you think?
The comparison is ready - visit this thread.
The comparison is ready - visit this thread.
Other scenes
A selection of some other scenes to see the effect of the color filter and overlay.
COMPARISON 9
The last picture has the best colors of the three versions - not identical to the GOUT, but really similar
COMPARISON 10
Also this time the last picture has the better colors. The third is not bad, but too washed colors.
COMPARISON 11
This time the untouched LD capture has the best colors - then the ColourLike and overlay have both wrong colors.
COMPARISON 12
Here the GOUT clearly wins! I think the LD has these colors because the master originally has subtitles burnt on the image, and the processing used to take them away left the images like this... infact, the subtitles in this LD are out of the pictures, in the black bars.
Waiting for your comments, but please do not quote this post, to avoid an infinite lenght thread due to the pictures, but instead refer to the comparison number. Thanks!
Clipped white scenes
Many fans (I was one of them) are not aware of the fact that, apart the DVNR, the GOUT has also another problem, the white is clipped - too high level - and this fact "clear out" some details.
COMPARISON 5
Look at the GOUT: many details are lost, but intact in the untouched LD capture - but lost again in the ColourLike picture. Most of them are present in the last picture, and the colors are not really bad. I know this is only a frame and normally pass unnoticed, but now I *know* it has clipped whites, and you too ;-)
COMPARISON 6
Note the white droid's top of the head - no details at all in the GOUT Vs the LD captures... the colors now are better, not really far from the DVD - taking in account the untouched capture.
COMPARISON 7
Another explosion, and this time two alive and one dead stormtrooper are "erased" from the GOUT. The last picture restore them with a nice color.
COMPARISON 8
This is a rare case where the GOUT is better than the LD, but the explosion this time is yellow and not white! Washed out colors on the ColourLike...
Waiting for your comments, but please do not quote this post, to avoid an infinite lenght thread due to the pictures, but instead refer to the comparison number. Thanks!
